Welcome to the Shining Force Central Forums!
SFC Forums Index Shining Forums Shining Force II
Register for your free forum account now or Login to remove this advert.

Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Discussion about this classic Genesis/Mega Drive game.

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Solby » Sun Feb 21 2010 10:20pm

MaxKnight @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:45 pm) wrote: Clean ROM says level 38, which is 18 promoted.

Yeah, it's definitely 38.
I guess it comes down to a simple choice really.... get busy living, or get busy dying.
I guess it comes down to a simple choice really.... get busy living, or get busy dying.
Solby

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 1617
Joined: Sat Mar 17 2007 10:17pm
Location: CT at home, Western NY when at college

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby superrojo » Sun Feb 21 2010 11:24pm

MXC @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:08 pm) wrote: rojo! A sticky please? :D

There are too many! ;P If you make a suggestion about which thread I can de-sticky, I'll think about it :shifty:
:snarl: <-- Totally my emoticon
:snarl: <-- Totally my emoticon
superrojo

User avatar
The Family Dog
Shining Hero
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Apr 24 2004 4:15am
Location: Northern Virginia, USA

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby MXC » Sun Feb 21 2010 11:46pm

The first two come to mind xD

Could sticky the new solo thread too lol
MXC

User avatar
1090
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 24874
Joined: Fri Sep 17 2004 1:48am
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Drakonis » Mon Feb 22 2010 12:26am

I think the solo beta sign-up could be de-stickied, as well as the possible hack/balance ideas. But not sure on the latter one.
Drakonis

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Dec 05 2008 1:16pm
Location: Good ol' Germany

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby SirHedge » Mon Feb 22 2010 5:21am

Drakonis @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:26 pm) wrote: I think the solo beta sign-up could be de-stickied, as well as the possible hack/balance ideas. But not sure on the latter one.

I second this.
SirHedge

User avatar
Shining Hero
Shining Hero
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Mar 15 2008 4:10am

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby superrojo » Mon Feb 22 2010 5:41am

Fine Fine, it's done ;P
:snarl: <-- Totally my emoticon
:snarl: <-- Totally my emoticon
superrojo

User avatar
The Family Dog
Shining Hero
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Apr 24 2004 4:15am
Location: Northern Virginia, USA


Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby DarkKobold » Thu Mar 18 2010 11:52pm

I'd like to make a slight correction to the Japanese Muddle 2/Stat Glitch.

After some testing, it actually is a legitimate glitch, however it requires that character being attacked dies. It is not sufficient to simply hit. I have yet to test if < 99 EXP works for this glitch as well, as killing another character results in 49 EXP (given ~ equal levels).
DarkKobold

Shining Member
Shining Member
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Dec 04 2004 8:06pm

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Colonel M » Sat Jun 26 2010 8:51pm

To add something.

- Wish Staff casts Attack, not Boost. This should be corrected as Here and Here state that it casts Boost. It is listed correctly as noted here

- Your guide states that Wyverns have 27 Agi. It should be 36. The Monster Stat sheet is correct, just not the main guide.
Thou Shalt Not Replace Me!

Shining Force II Log (No Egress, No Deaths, Super Mode

Youtube Videos (Up To Battle 7)
Dumbest Quote Ever Seen:
I think you are the only person I know who uses Pegasus Knights like Archers. Everyone else seems to use Knights as frontline fighters with a ranged option.

What can I say? I'm a bored man.
Thou Shalt Not Replace Me!

Shining Force II Log (No Egress, No Deaths, Super Mode

Youtube Videos (Up To Battle 7)
Dumbest Quote Ever Seen:
I think you are the only person I know who uses Pegasus Knights like Archers. Everyone else seems to use Knights as frontline fighters with a ranged option.

What can I say? I'm a bored man.
Colonel M

User avatar
Shining Hero
Shining Hero
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Jan 28 2010 4:56am
Location: Thou Shalt Not Replace Me

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Cullsoft » Wed Sep 08 2010 11:40pm

The promotion items page could do with an update too, especially as I gather ROM hacking has made the pros and cons of either class much clearer (notably which stats benefit from either class)... is there a topic with these listed? Also, Moogie's insistance on promoting to Master Monks over Vicars doesn't seem to account for their inability to use Staves. ;)
----- Culley's Shop RPG Trading Post & Figurine Emporium -----
- Warrior Pride, Dynamite & other items for sale
- Various figures for trading
- Seeking Grace, Alef and May figurines, also Power Waters, Lucky Cookies and rare goods
Click here for trading rates & more information
----- Culley's Shop RPG Trading Post & Figurine Emporium -----
- Warrior Pride, Dynamite & other items for sale
- Various figures for trading
- Seeking Grace, Alef and May figurines, also Power Waters, Lucky Cookies and rare goods
Click here for trading rates & more information
Cullsoft

User avatar
Shining Furce
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 5251
Joined: Thu Sep 16 2004 1:56pm
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Colonel M » Thu Sep 09 2010 8:01am

MaxKnight's stat spreadsheet does show the minor stat differences, though it's pretty much basic stuff. Most of the minor and not-so-immediate stat stuff (i.e. Gladiator's huge Def) isn't usually seen with a major difference between the other classes until very far in the unit's career, if possible that the character reaches 20/30.
Thou Shalt Not Replace Me!

Shining Force II Log (No Egress, No Deaths, Super Mode

Youtube Videos (Up To Battle 7)
Dumbest Quote Ever Seen:
I think you are the only person I know who uses Pegasus Knights like Archers. Everyone else seems to use Knights as frontline fighters with a ranged option.

What can I say? I'm a bored man.
Thou Shalt Not Replace Me!

Shining Force II Log (No Egress, No Deaths, Super Mode

Youtube Videos (Up To Battle 7)
Dumbest Quote Ever Seen:
I think you are the only person I know who uses Pegasus Knights like Archers. Everyone else seems to use Knights as frontline fighters with a ranged option.

What can I say? I'm a bored man.
Colonel M

User avatar
Shining Hero
Shining Hero
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Jan 28 2010 4:56am
Location: Thou Shalt Not Replace Me

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Lightside » Thu Sep 09 2010 8:18am

well, the info on the subject is rather lacking, especially for the warrior pride, pegasus wing and vigor ball.

e.g. PLDNs vs PGNTs, it would be worth mentioning that PLDNs make use of land effect, whereas PGNTs dodge more often but are more vulnerable to archers.

BRN vs GLDT, imho the biggest difference between the two is the improved critical stats of the baron.

and what you said about MMNKs and staves.
SF2 Milestone Solos (no egress or resetting. Number of deaths in brackets)
Peter (0), Claude (0), Zynk (1), Karna VICR (0), Frayja MMNK (0), Gerhalt (0), Eric PGNT (1), Sarah MMNK (0), Eric PLDN (0), Rick PLDN (0), Sheela VICR (0)
SF2 Milestone Solos (no egress or resetting. Number of deaths in brackets)
Peter (0), Claude (0), Zynk (1), Karna VICR (0), Frayja MMNK (0), Gerhalt (0), Eric PGNT (1), Sarah MMNK (0), Eric PLDN (0), Rick PLDN (0), Sheela VICR (0)
Lightside

User avatar
BANNED
Whacked with the Banstick
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 25 2010 1:06am

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Cullsoft » Thu Sep 09 2010 9:04am

Lightside @ Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:18 am) wrote: e.g. PLDNs vs PGNTs, it would be worth mentioning that PLDNs make use of land effect, whereas PGNTs dodge more often but are more vulnerable to archers.

BRN vs GLDT, imho the biggest difference between the two is the improved critical stats of the baron.

I thought she'd already mentioned Pegasus Knights not being affected by terrain, but looking back it's only there as a pro (i.e. they're not hindered by tough terrain) and not as a con (i.e. no land effect bonus).

Do the BRN and PGNTs really have higher Critical and Dodge rates respectively (i.e. has it been proven via hacking), or does it just seem that way? Same with the Archer vulnerability - how does that work?
----- Culley's Shop RPG Trading Post & Figurine Emporium -----
- Warrior Pride, Dynamite & other items for sale
- Various figures for trading
- Seeking Grace, Alef and May figurines, also Power Waters, Lucky Cookies and rare goods
Click here for trading rates & more information
----- Culley's Shop RPG Trading Post & Figurine Emporium -----
- Warrior Pride, Dynamite & other items for sale
- Various figures for trading
- Seeking Grace, Alef and May figurines, also Power Waters, Lucky Cookies and rare goods
Click here for trading rates & more information
Cullsoft

User avatar
Shining Furce
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 5251
Joined: Thu Sep 16 2004 1:56pm
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Lightside » Thu Sep 09 2010 10:27am

Do the BRN and PGNTs really have higher Critical and Dodge rates respectively (i.e. has it been proven via hacking), or does it just seem that way? Same with the Archer vulnerability - how does that work?

it's been asserted by people who've posted statistics, and who seem like they've gotten their information from the game's inner workings.

about the baron's critical stats, they've said that some characters have higher chances of critical hits (and greater damage when they do occur) than other characters.

like with most characters it's a 1/16 chance but some characters it's a 1/8 chance or something (i'm pulling those numbers out of my ass but you get the point)

i seem to recall that the characters with better critical stats were Barons, NINJ Slade, WFBR Gerhalt and MMNKs.

as for PGNTs dodging, i've also seen it asserted around here that all flying characters have a better chance of dodging (e.g. 1/8 instead of 1/32, that sort of thing), so that's going to include PGNTs. i've also seen it said that archers get a % bonus on their attack power when attacking flying characters, and that the flying target doesn't get their usual improved dodging chances when the thing attacking them is an archer.

whoever has the real info, please do clarify and/or correct what i've said here.
SF2 Milestone Solos (no egress or resetting. Number of deaths in brackets)
Peter (0), Claude (0), Zynk (1), Karna VICR (0), Frayja MMNK (0), Gerhalt (0), Eric PGNT (1), Sarah MMNK (0), Eric PLDN (0), Rick PLDN (0), Sheela VICR (0)
SF2 Milestone Solos (no egress or resetting. Number of deaths in brackets)
Peter (0), Claude (0), Zynk (1), Karna VICR (0), Frayja MMNK (0), Gerhalt (0), Eric PGNT (1), Sarah MMNK (0), Eric PLDN (0), Rick PLDN (0), Sheela VICR (0)
Lightside

User avatar
BANNED
Whacked with the Banstick
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 25 2010 1:06am

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Rohde Is Underrated » Fri Sep 10 2010 5:03pm

This is all the info I have gathered on random chances...

All unpromoted classes except thief have 1/32 chance to double hit 1/16 to critical for 25% more damage and 1/32 chance to counter. Thief gets 1/16 chance of double attack with the rest being the same.

most promoted classes only get a bonus to counter going from 1/32 to 1/16, having critical stay at 1/16 +25% and double hit 1/32.

with the exception of:

Ninja get 1/8 +50% damage critical 1/16 double hit 1/8 counter
Master monks and wolf baron get 1/8 counter
Hero gets 1/16 double hit 1/8 counter
Red Baron gets 1/8 +50% critical 1/8 counter
Barons get 1/8 +50% critical 1/16 counter

Dodging is normally 1/32. However, when a ground unit attacks a flier the flier has 1/8 chance to dodge, unless the ground unit is an archer which resets it back to 1/32.

Archers get +25% to either their damage or attack when hitting fliers, I do not remember which.
There is no image of Rohde in the SFII avatar Gallery, that makes me a sad panda.

Fear my pink text mortals!!!

I made my signature purple and underlined so it looks like a link HAHAHA!


ROFLCOPTER
There is no image of Rohde in the SFII avatar Gallery, that makes me a sad panda.

Fear my pink text mortals!!!

I made my signature purple and underlined so it looks like a link HAHAHA!


ROFLCOPTER
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Aug 28 2010 9:22am
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Lightside » Fri Sep 10 2010 5:06pm

k thx for the info.
SF2 Milestone Solos (no egress or resetting. Number of deaths in brackets)
Peter (0), Claude (0), Zynk (1), Karna VICR (0), Frayja MMNK (0), Gerhalt (0), Eric PGNT (1), Sarah MMNK (0), Eric PLDN (0), Rick PLDN (0), Sheela VICR (0)
SF2 Milestone Solos (no egress or resetting. Number of deaths in brackets)
Peter (0), Claude (0), Zynk (1), Karna VICR (0), Frayja MMNK (0), Gerhalt (0), Eric PGNT (1), Sarah MMNK (0), Eric PLDN (0), Rick PLDN (0), Sheela VICR (0)
Lightside

User avatar
BANNED
Whacked with the Banstick
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 25 2010 1:06am

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Lord Kane » Sun Sep 12 2010 7:27am

The 25 % archer bonus goes to the inflicted damage! The Rest of Rohde Is Underrated's info is 100% correct!! :thumbsup:
Tor_Heyerdal wrote:
^_____^ You're a super duper Shining life saver.


Sinful Force wrote:
Wow, Lord Kane went to town in this thread with corrections. That man is like Lord "SF Knowledge" incarnate or something?
Tor_Heyerdal wrote:
^_____^ You're a super duper Shining life saver.


Sinful Force wrote:
Wow, Lord Kane went to town in this thread with corrections. That man is like Lord "SF Knowledge" incarnate or something?
Lord Kane

User avatar
Shining Member
Shining Member
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Mar 09 2008 10:46am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Lightside » Sun Sep 12 2010 12:07pm

could we also have an explanation of how the Critical Sword and Rune Axe affect Barons, RDBN Lemon and NINJ Slade? since those two weapons (along with the robin arrow and nazca cannon) alter a character's critical properties, but Slade, Barons and RDBN Lemon already have atypical critical properties.

isn't it actually a bad thing to give the critical sword/rune axe to those characters?
SF2 Milestone Solos (no egress or resetting. Number of deaths in brackets)
Peter (0), Claude (0), Zynk (1), Karna VICR (0), Frayja MMNK (0), Gerhalt (0), Eric PGNT (1), Sarah MMNK (0), Eric PLDN (0), Rick PLDN (0), Sheela VICR (0)
SF2 Milestone Solos (no egress or resetting. Number of deaths in brackets)
Peter (0), Claude (0), Zynk (1), Karna VICR (0), Frayja MMNK (0), Gerhalt (0), Eric PGNT (1), Sarah MMNK (0), Eric PLDN (0), Rick PLDN (0), Sheela VICR (0)
Lightside

User avatar
BANNED
Whacked with the Banstick
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 25 2010 1:06am

Re: Mistakes in Moogie's Guide

Postby Siel » Sun Sep 12 2010 12:45pm

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... ntry365531
http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... ntry440133
BigNailCow) wrote:0000 (0) = 1/32 chance of 150% damage
0001 (1) = 1/32 chance of 125% damage
0010 (2) = 1/16 chance of 150% damage
0011 (3) = 1/16 chance of 125% damage
0100 (4) = 1/8 chance of 150% damage
0101 (5) = 1/8 chance of 125% damage
0110 (6) = 1/4 chance of 150% damage
0111 (7) = 1/4 chance of 125% damage
1000 (8) = no chance of critical
BigNailCow) wrote:2. As far as I can tell, and this is unconfirmed but I determined it from reading the code, the Critical Sword adds 1 to the character's "critical value" which actually corresponds to a pair of chance and power numbers. Because of the way the table is set up, this doubles the chance and 125%->150% for HERO and BDBT, but has no effect on the chance and 150%->125% for BRN, NINJ, RDBN. That's right -- the Critical Sword DECREASES the power of BRN/NINJ/RDBN crits with no discernable benefit.
Siel

User avatar
Shining Member
Shining Member
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Oct 18 2009 2:20pm

PreviousNext

Return to Shining Force II

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 3 guests