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No Peter, no egress on super

Discussion about this classic Genesis/Mega Drive game.

No Peter, no egress on super

Postby kiwi1202935 » Thu Dec 14 2017 1:48pm

Thinking about doing a run like this... Wondering if anyone else's done it, and any opinions would be cool
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby DomingoRules! » Thu Dec 14 2017 3:10pm

No Peter. Even disregarding all the other rules you have set, it sounds rough. Unfortunately, I can't really offer up any tips since I've only ever played through Super once.
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby Doh042 » Thu Dec 14 2017 3:48pm

I'm wondering about the letter vs spirit of the law here.

"No Peter" is quite clear, and while he's a strong unit, I find it amusing to single him out. I'd say "No Healers" is harder, and "No Slade" would make me more sad than losing Peter...

But Does "no egress" actually change much?

I mean, does that also mean "Not letting Bowie die to reset the level on purpose"? You lose half your gold, but you could always buy things and sell it back to lose a little less gold, if that's all that mattered.

So rather than "No Egress" should it be "No level grinding?". Because even without using Egress ever, if you make sure to always use up all of your healer's MP on cures / buffs every map and "Farming" levels for them, you'll make the game easier on you.
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby kiwi1202935 » Thu Dec 14 2017 4:48pm

DomingoRules! wrote:No Peter. Even disregarding all the other rules you have set, it sounds rough. Unfortunately, I can't really offer up any tips since I've only ever played through Super once.

Yeah it does sound rough, I was thinking of a way to make the game more challenging/interesting..
Doh042 wrote:I'm wondering about the letter vs spirit of the law here.

"No Peter" is quite clear, and while he's a strong unit, I find it amusing to single him out. I'd say "No Healers" is harder, and "No Slade" would make me more sad than losing Peter...

But Does "no egress" actually change much?

I mean, does that also mean "Not letting Bowie die to reset the level on purpose"? You lose half your gold, but you could always buy things and sell it back to lose a little less gold, if that's all that mattered.

So rather than "No Egress" should it be "No level grinding?". Because even without using Egress ever, if you make sure to always use up all of your healer's MP on cures / buffs every map and "Farming" levels for them, you'll make the game easier on you.

I've never played without healers before, it dosn't sound to appealing to me thougth but i do see your point (might try no master monks if anything).. On the matter of Peter I've always used him in my force and he's always got me out of tight spots (being the best attacker with high Hp decent defense and the ability to fly.) I think not having him would prompt better tactics from me.

No level grinding is sort of the idea I had with the no egress deal, but If you unintentionally lose Bowie I don't really consider that the same as grinding.
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby Doh042 » Thu Dec 14 2017 5:07pm

I'll have to try playing without Peter -- actually, I probably really NEED to do a SF2 run where I get out of my comfort zone.

I did a lot of random playthroughs of SF1 with different unit configurations, but SF2, it's always pretty much the same setup every game for me, or small variation of the following:

Bowie, Slade, Peter, May, The 4 Healers, The 4 casters (and the three other archers when there's room for them)

When I decide to actually play the game next, instead of just loading it up to dissect it, I think I'll try a run with different units.
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby Jonesy_Pants » Fri Dec 15 2017 1:14am

i always get to the prism flower staged and the lose interest whenever i boot up another play through. I think no angel wing/no egress no fairy stage on super with no peter is do able especially with healers.

Doh042, I've always found all of the archers to be very weak and very rarely use them.
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby DomingoRules! » Fri Dec 15 2017 3:03am

kiwi1202935 wrote:
DomingoRules! wrote:No Peter. Even disregarding all the other rules you have set, it sounds rough. Unfortunately, I can't really offer up any tips since I've only ever played through Super once.

Yeah it does sound rough, I was thinking of a way to make the game more challenging/interesting.

I did similar once in Forbidden Series 6 (which I refrained from mentioning before because I didn't want to jump straight to that right away in a thread that would perhaps gain no other momentum) where I avoided using Sabin. I swear the difficulty doubled at least just from not having him in my party throughout the game because of how hard it crippled my damage output per round. Especially post learning Bum Rush.

Peter and Slade have always been staples for me, so it would certainly feel weird if nothing else to not use them. Same goes for Domingo and Zylo in SF1.

Also, speaking of not using Master Monks, maybe another way one could challenge themselves is to not use any special promotion items at all. Not that the special promotions are vastly better than the standard ones (and some normal promotions I actually prefer), but it seems to be the consensus that they are superior in general.
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby Doh042 » Fri Dec 15 2017 8:24am

Jonesy_Pants wrote:Doh042, I've always found all of the archers to be very weak and very rarely use them.

I know, they're weak, but I tend to hate on the fact you can only have 4 melee against a single unit, but you can have 8 archers/knights with spears/casters + 4 melee

So I always tend to use them if only because they allow more shots at a single target. Also, I guess I like archers? :P
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby kiwi1202935 » Fri Dec 15 2017 2:39pm

I couldn't Imagine not using Slade, I like the character too much.. Plus all the work it takes to make him any good adds to me not wanting to get rid of him. Zylo and Domingo have always been staples for me too, SF1 did pretty well with them I think though... They start pretty top tier, but near the end they're more around 5th through 7th best

I've always used master monks, so doing a no promotion items would be interesting. I've always promoted Jaha into a baron, May's the only archer I tend to use (might have to use cheerful bread for her low Hp, especially on super.), never been a big fan of the sorcerer class and I think a pegasus knight would be way to fragile on super too.

Plus the stat enhancing items have a chance to make a few shit chars halfway decent (I've done it before with Luke via power water and protect milk.), and I was thinking of maybe trying Frayja with some bright honey and quick chicken.

Thinking of limiting my promotions too, probably 24... And thinking of who I should take at Creed's, I normally always go with Karma or Tyrin but thinking of going with Eric or Randolph this time...
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby DomingoRules! » Fri Dec 15 2017 4:08pm

I'm probably the one person in the world who's always preferred Vicars over Master Monks. Sure, their minuscule increase in MP pales severely compared to the vastly superior attack power of monks, but considering I never find myself attacking with them even when they are monks I don't ever get any benefit from their harder hits anyway. Almost every round has somebody who needs to be healed at least a little bit, so I much rather have them focusing entirely on that since I have 10 or 11 other characters who can do the hitting weighed against only 1-2 who can properly heal while also gaining EXP for it. Furthermore, both Sarah and Karna learn Blast, and personally I hate the idea of how that spell has its usefulness diminished by giving them higher attack power, even if I'm not using the spell often if at all. It bugs me because it makes the characters' inherent design feel counterintuitive.
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby MXC » Fri Dec 15 2017 4:49pm

As someone that never uses Egress, always promotes at 20, and doesn't mind if Peter isn't in the party, I don't really have much advise other than not to bother with anyone from North Parmecia, except Gyan :lol:
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby Wulfunruh » Fri Dec 15 2017 8:20pm

Let's strip everything else away...and say... Super...no egress... kill the King last on the chess battle...because screw that.
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Dec 16 2017 3:00am

Wulfunruh wrote:kill the King last on the chess battle.

Let me just stop you right there with a big, heaping helping of nope. :lol:
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby greyskies » Sat Dec 16 2017 11:11pm

DomingoRules! wrote:I'm probably the one person in the world who's always preferred Vicars over Master Monks. Sure, their minuscule increase in MP pales severely compared to the vastly superior attack power of monks, but considering I never find myself attacking with them even when they are monks I don't ever get any benefit from their harder hits anyway.

I would also prefer Vicars stats-wise, but I still always promote to MMNK because VICRs are just so horrible to look at...

DomingoRules! wrote:
Wulfunruh wrote:kill the King last on the chess battle.

Let me just stop you right there with a big, heaping helping of nope. :lol:

I always kill the king last, because it's probably the only way to finish the battle without casualties :)
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby DomingoRules! » Sun Dec 17 2017 5:49am

greyskies wrote:
DomingoRules! wrote:
Wulfunruh wrote:kill the King last on the chess battle.

Let me just stop you right there with a big, heaping helping of nope. :lol:

I always kill the king last, because it's probably the only way to finish the battle without casualties :)

Funnily enough, a while back I played through SF2 with a friend who had never played it before, and we totally wiped the floor in the chess battle. Keep in mind I wasn't giving him any specific tips, and was letting him decide how best to approach things since I didn't want to break the game for his first time, so naturally we just moved into the fray. Yet despite how much I played up the battle as being super hard, we totally laid waste to it (as in killed only two or three other pieces before taking out the king) in just a few rounds without any casualties, and I was just like, "What just happened?"
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby greyskies » Sun Dec 17 2017 3:15pm

DomingoRules! wrote:Funnily enough, a while back I played through SF2 with a friend who had never played it before, and we totally wiped the floor in the chess battle. Keep in mind I wasn't giving him any specific tips, and was letting him decide how best to approach things since I didn't want to break the game for his first time, so naturally we just moved into the fray. Yet despite how much I played up the battle as being super hard, we totally laid waste to it (as in killed only two or three other pieces before taking out the king) in just a few rounds without any casualties, and I was just like, "What just happened?"


You guys must have gotten really lucky oO
Then again, I have quite a few memories of big boss battles in all kinds of games when I almost won on my first attempt (mostly while running around like a headless chicken), only to get destroyed the next ten times when I actually knew what I was doing. I sometimes even wonder if games intentionally lower the difficulty on first attempts so you actually get to see what a boss does instead of getting smashed into the ground right away. Current games, mind you - such a level of sophistication is probably far beyond the Genesis era :)
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Re: No Peter, no egress on super

Postby DomingoRules! » Tue Dec 19 2017 4:12am

greyskies wrote:
DomingoRules! wrote:Funnily enough, a while back I played through SF2 with a friend who had never played it before, and we totally wiped the floor in the chess battle. Keep in mind I wasn't giving him any specific tips, and was letting him decide how best to approach things since I didn't want to break the game for his first time, so naturally we just moved into the fray. Yet despite how much I played up the battle as being super hard, we totally laid waste to it (as in killed only two or three other pieces before taking out the king) in just a few rounds without any casualties, and I was just like, "What just happened?"


You guys must have gotten really lucky oO
Then again, I have quite a few memories of big boss battles in all kinds of games when I almost won on my first attempt (mostly while running around like a headless chicken), only to get destroyed the next ten times when I actually knew what I was doing. I sometimes even wonder if games intentionally lower the difficulty on first attempts so you actually get to see what a boss does instead of getting smashed into the ground right away. Current games, mind you - such a level of sophistication is probably far beyond the Genesis era :)

Especially on the topic of Shining games, your little explanation got me thinking about the very first time I fought Marionette in SF1, and how exact opposite that was. For how much of a joke that battle is today, my god winning that fight my very first time was probably the toughest thing I ever had to do in either of the Genesis Shining Force titles because of how little the game prepares you for taking on that first boss beforehand. I remember just getting stuck fighting the battle over and over until I gained enough levels from defeating his minions that I could power through. First time players have no idea what they're getting themselves into when it comes to not only the damage output of Freeze 3, but all those damn hidden passive abilities the bosses have.

In more direct relationship with what you brought up though, sometimes I find myself doing better the first time I attempt something than later attempts I think because I'm going all in because I don't know what to expect, rather than being cocky from having done it before. Like if I get 2/3 of the way through a stage in a game, then die, then my next attempt I only get to about the halfway point because I'm either more lax, or more rushed from having to redo what I already did just moments ago.
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