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The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Shall I recall the soul? Only 200G!

Discussion about this classic Genesis/Mega Drive game.

Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby MXC » Tue May 16 2017 2:12pm

I forgot where I left off but I'll comment again on character selections.

It really saddens me that Domingo isn't automatically in the game since he's such a good caster. I'd prefer to see him in and Natasha out, especially since Natasha has overkill Egress. I know I've already touched on the fact that Tyrin is better than Kazin every way but I digress. I'd also prefer Rick to Eric so you can have another tanky "knight" option with Guntz. I'm actually okay with all of the other choices and the first bonus 5 you have so I'll comment on some general observations.

You have 6 swordsman (if you include Oddeye). I understand why but it does leave the other classes somewhat thin. I'd like to see another warrior especially, but also a healer and an archer. Chester being an alternative is fine, and so is Mae/Pelle (but again, having no Rick is weird but otherwise, I prefer Pelle). I'd like to see Lemon included with the warriors since he's good, special, and an important character in his own game. Kokichi or Knuckles would also be cool too.

I will say though that SF1 has a ton of representation both in the "main" characters and with the bonus ones. I looked to see if someone from FC made sense but none really jump out (except maybe Knuckles). Same goes with SFCD, unfortunately. As far as Adam/Zynk is concerned, I don't really care because I don't often use either. I have used Adam far less frequently though.

I'll test for you eventually but now isn't the best time, especially since I'm running through another hack.

Had you given any thought to making all the heroes be alts instead of other characters so you could balance the roster better?
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby Noma » Thu May 18 2017 9:06am

MXC wrote:I forgot where I left off but I'll comment again on character selections.

It really saddens me that Domingo isn't automatically in the game since he's such a good caster. I'd prefer to see him in and Natasha out, especially since Natasha has overkill Egress. I know I've already touched on the fact that Tyrin is better than Kazin every way but I digress. I'd also prefer Rick to Eric so you can have another tanky "knight" option with Guntz. I'm actually okay with all of the other choices and the first bonus 5 you have so I'll comment on some general observations.

You have 6 swordsman (if you include Oddeye). I understand why but it does leave the other classes somewhat thin. I'd like to see another warrior especially, but also a healer and an archer. Chester being an alternative is fine, and so is Mae/Pelle (but again, having no Rick is weird but otherwise, I prefer Pelle). I'd like to see Lemon included with the warriors since he's good, special, and an important character in his own game. Kokichi or Knuckles would also be cool too.

I will say though that SF1 has a ton of representation both in the "main" characters and with the bonus ones. I looked to see if someone from FC made sense but none really jump out (except maybe Knuckles). Same goes with SFCD, unfortunately. As far as Adam/Zynk is concerned, I don't really care because I don't often use either. I have used Adam far less frequently though.

I'll test for you eventually but now isn't the best time, especially since I'm running through another hack.

Had you given any thought to making all the heroes be alts instead of other characters so you could balance the roster better?


I'll try my best to address everything.

Domingo's problem early on was that I didn't know what to do with a character that doesn't promote. As we moved on, that kind of became a non issue. So if you like we can put him in as alt. I'll figure out a promotion for him, it's not hard. It doesn't make sense to me to pull out Natasha for him if we have an alt list anyway. On the Natasha Egress bit, she no longer has Egress. She learns another spell in it's place for the mod, since, as you said, it's really redundant to have so many characters with it.

Also on that note, SDMN/HERO characters. I get it. There are a lot, but for the most part they are the best character's in their respective games. If I remove any, it would be Bowie and possibly either Nick or Deanna. Probably Nick, but idk. That said, they all play slightly different roles here. I did all their stats with the idea in mind that there are a lot of this class in the game and they need to have some difference, so I tweaked their stats accordingly. For example, Nick plays a heavier magic role than all the other heroes, learning Bolt levels faster and having overall better MP as well as defense, but his attack suffers as a result. Ian has the lowest health, but has tanky defence and attack, he also has low mp and learns Bolt slowly. Max has high HP and attack with moderate defense, but low agility and MP and he doesn't learn past Bolt 3. I don't remember Deanna's specialty and Bowie is the same as vanilla. Oddeye is sharing a class with SDMN but it's for space reasons and he is fairly unique in comparison to the others. I will consider removing Nick and maybe Bowie but I think I'd really have to be convinced, and even then since all the work is already done on them I'd be hard pressed to not just have them as extra alts anyway because what is the hurt of having extra characters at this point? It can be discussed at length, but I'm just telling you how I feel right this second.

Early on we discussed between Rick, Eric, and I think Gerhalt? I'd have to go back and check. It ended up we agreed on Eric and Gerhalt over Rick. I can add Rick to alt if you like. I agree 3 knights is thin, Guntz excluded. Especially when games like SF1 have 7 options, to have so few is honestly a little weird to me. Then again all the later games had 3 or so. I like Rick personally. I don't often use Eric even though he's better just because you can only choose 1 at Creed. I don't want to take Eric out though because he's the best stat wise overall and I already have a couple characters in out of favoritism (Earnest is not good, he's average at best. I made him good for the mod.) If you're okay with putting him as an alt I'll do that. If we remove Bowie or Nick for alt we can have him in permanently. I also really like Chester as an archer option. Currently we only have Sonette.

Again, a to the Hero bit, I understand how you feel. You're not the first to say that and I get it. As I said, I don't want to remove them all, especially because some games aren't really well represented as it is. I dunno. If it come down to it, yeah maybe I could make all of them alts. I guess I just feel like there isn't a point in making them alts for different alts to become permanent. Theres no difference really anyway since I'm going to have to plugin graphics for characters on a per request basis, it just means that I also have to edit some stats on a per request basis as well.
All-Stars Mod: WIP, Revived! Check it out!
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby MXC » Thu May 18 2017 1:14pm

As for the swordsmen, I would say 1 or all, and not just some. I get the reasoning, it just leaves the other classes a bit thin.

Eric's status of being better than Rick is a bit questionable because he has 4 bonus levels. Rick draws closer if you take him to level 24 before promoting and offers a different flavor with his heavy defense. He'd be a nice bridge between the others and Guntz. I'm not heart broken if he doesn't make it in but he'll add some diversity. I believe you have Graham with Sonette for archers but still, Chester is a good addition.
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby bleu7384 » Thu May 18 2017 1:24pm

Afternoon
i think i sent you a list a little while ago.
But if i could try
Max, Zylo, Blue, Guntz, Khris, Tao, Cray, Claude(birdman), Ruburan, Sonette, Oddeye
Then If not Domingo, May from SFCD

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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby Noma » Thu May 18 2017 2:25pm

MXC wrote:As for the swordsmen, I would say 1 or all, and not just some. I get the reasoning, it just leaves the other classes a bit thin.

Eric's status of being better than Rick is a bit questionable because he has 4 bonus levels. Rick draws closer if you take him to level 24 before promoting and offers a different flavor with his heavy defense. He'd be a nice bridge between the others and Guntz. I'm not heart broken if he doesn't make it in but he'll add some diversity. I believe you have Graham with Sonette for archers but still, Chester is a good addition.


Yeah, Graham is technically an archer still, I forgot. He would originally have been different but I had to combine their classes for space. But anyway, most classes have at least 2-3 different characters as representation unless theyre really unique. So another archer doesn't hurt.

Now that I think about it, a lot of character classes share battle animations and the limited animations is what is limiting me more than anything. Since each swordsman has to use different graphics, it really tightens things up for me...so maybe it is a good idea to make them all alts since they can just be added individually per request more easily then having them permanently in. Maybe I'll choose one to stay in and alt the rest. Oddeye will stay and I guess Bowie since he is naturally in already. I'll think on it more seriously as I go along.

I could take out Earnest for Rick. As I said, Earnest is there for me most of all. So alting him doesn't bother me that much.

Any other ideas? So far we have

Mae/Pelle, still have to decide on this after i mess with stats, still haven't gotten to it
Earnest/Rick, whichever I choose to alt, doesn't actually matter at all
Zynk/Adam, I think after I scale Adam's stats and compare to Zynk, I'll just go with whoever is stronger. They're both cool in their own ways, so I can't really go off personal choice based on coolness, lol.
Domingo, I don't wanna take Natasha out for him just because she shares graphics with May so making her an alt is weird. A better option would be to either keep him alt or alt Anri, since she uses her original graphics and doesn't share them with Natasha/May. Just a thought.
Tyrin, I could make him a permanent if I remove the SDMN, but we will see. He is a pallette swap of Kazin, so for graphic space reasons, it might be a better idea for him to be in permanently. We'll see.
Mayfair, she's Mayfair.

Bleu, I can give you May since I haven't done any work to get Domingo's stats setup and his graphics ready to import. I would be happy to put him in for you, just not yet. Also, Tao isn't an option. People did suggest her early on, so I guess I can put her on alt list, but I feel like maybe we have enough mages. Counting Domingo and Tyrin, there is 5. More than any class besides SDMN and if you include Guntz as a knight, then knights.
Last edited by Noma on Thu May 18 2017 2:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby MXC » Thu May 18 2017 2:32pm

I think those are all fair concessions. Would like to see what others think too. You're not just making this for me, after all ;) I just felt like I should throw a few ideas out there.
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby Noma » Thu May 18 2017 2:38pm

MXC wrote:I think those are all fair concessions. Would like to see what others think too. You're not just making this for me, after all ;) I just felt like I should throw a few ideas out there.


Yeah, but you make good points. I think when I started years ago you pissed me off (Go read the first 2-3 pages, I was really getting triggered) so I took your suggestions with a grain of salt. Your swordsman point makes sense, I didn't consider the battle animations angle that it frees up for me if I alt them all until I considered the pros and cons though. It was kinda because I wanted as fair representation of every game as I could get and having all the heroes made it more fair. That and in they are all top teir in their respective games. But making them alts doesn't change any of those factors, it only helps free up animations for me, so it doesn't really have a downside.

Also forgot to ask if people still want Musashi or another samurai. I think everyone basically agreed Musashi is beast, but if anyone wants like Kojirou or something instead I'll look into his stats and such. Since Musashi is in two different games I have to stat options to compare and balance together to make him a bit more powerful.
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby MXC » Thu May 18 2017 2:55pm

Fair enough ;) I will say though that having half a Force full of Heroes is kind of cool, even if it does bring down the diversity quite a bit. That's more of a gimmick to me though.

I think Musashi is a good choice, but I do also like Kojirou. If you really wanted to add in another FC character, that would be a mostly fair trade, even though people are more familiar with Musashi.
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby bleu7384 » Thu May 18 2017 4:15pm

'Bleu, I can give you May since I haven't done any work to get Domingo's stats setup and his graphics ready to import. I would be happy to put him in for you, just not yet. Also, Tao isn't an option. People did suggest her early on, so I guess I can put her on alt list, but I feel like maybe we have enough mages. Counting Domingo and Tyrin, there is 5. More than any class besides SDMN and if you include Guntz as a knight, then knights.'

I'll take Natasha then if that's ok, i've just had a look now and i think she was on the original list

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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby Noma » Thu May 18 2017 7:09pm

MXC wrote:Fair enough ;) I will say though that having half a Force full of Heroes is kind of cool, even if it does bring down the diversity quite a bit. That's more of a gimmick to me though.

I think Musashi is a good choice, but I do also like Kojirou. If you really wanted to add in another FC character, that would be a mostly fair trade, even though people are more familiar with Musashi.


I was thinking I might just actually do Kojirou so I could more fairly represent FC. It does have the least characters, and that gap is widened with these alts. He needs a promotion, so what I'll do is draw his unpromoted form based on his FC animation look, and give him Musashi's animation from either CD or SF1 for his promoted animation. I'm gonna check both characters stats and scale just to be sure on who is stronger, but really if it comes down to it I can put them both as alts and just palette swap them. For palette swaps, the amount of work I need to do to add in a different character is reduced to literally taking 2 minutes to swap info and gfx a little. The thing I really need is to ask Stor if he has a copy of his tweaked SF2 Editor and Caravan, because his has extra stuff, including the ability to add extra palette slots. And that could help me out a ton.

bleu7384 wrote:I'll take Natasha then if that's ok, i've just had a look now and i think she was on the original list.


I see. Maybe she was at some point. I don't remember ever putting her on the list, but it's possible she was there early on and then removed.

Anyway, yeah, that's fine. I'm not gonna make promises, but I'm gonna try to send you a copy by the end of the week, so keep an eye on your PMs. If its not there by Sunday, post here or PM me a reminder.

Just to be clear, your list is:
Max, Zylo, Blue, Guntz, Khris, May(SFCD), Natasha, Cray, Claude(SFCD), Ruburan, Sonette, Oddeye

If that's correct, I'll give you a warning about what you'll encounter graphic wise and what to ignore:

WARNING: SPOILER!
All-Stars Mod: WIP, Revived! Check it out!
All-Stars Mod: WIP, Revived! Check it out!
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby bleu7384 » Fri May 19 2017 1:57pm

Hello.

I'll keep a log of the characters stats and gains for you, no prob.

That list is correct, if Natasha was an issue though just give me another mage.


Any word on this at all?
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby Explothon » Sat Dec 02 2017 2:27pm

Sorry, but where can i download it?
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Re: The All Stars Mod [Revived!]

Postby Wulfunruh » Sat Dec 02 2017 11:15pm

Good question. I agree that Domingo is an absolute. If there is no Domingo, it's not an All-Star game. Simple.
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