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Positive / Negative thing

A place for those working on the Shining Force III Translation Patch.

What should the power of Innovator / Vandal be called?

Positive Power / Negative Power
3
33%
Positive Force / Negative Force
2
22%
Positive Energy / Negative Energy
4
44%
Positive Chikara / Negative Chikara
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 9

Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Aspartate » Sat Sep 09 2006 8:43pm

Marky @ Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:11 am) wrote: Uh, Aspartate, by this statement, you inferred a question. You are asking people who thought of other options to check the link and see if the Force thing fitted. And you asked us to check with the script. So that's what I did.

Case closed!!! :)

Ha ha. I suppose you think that's funny?
I don't know how you take it as a "please nitpick me" request. I'm asking people who thought of other options to check the link and see if the thing he came up with fitted. For example, "aura" doesn't.
Why the heck would I want people to check if Force fitted? Of course it does. I'm aware of what I'm writing. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Rusty-
These two phrases are new. They weren't in past games, and were ignored or replaced in Scenario 1. There's not much need to consider consistency.

And they are not for describing gods and devils. They are in human minds. Now that's even more important, as told by the priest in Ark Hill.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Swalchy » Sat Sep 09 2006 9:37pm

I voted for Positive/Negative Energy :)

"Aspartate") wrote:These two phrases are new. They weren't in past games, and were ignored or replaced in Scenario 1. There's not much need to consider consistency.


Does anyone else feel like those of us who can only understand the English Scenario 1 have missed out on some very important information regarding the storyline?

Aspartate my dear, could you kindly point us to the place where SoA purposedly edited this "positive/negative energy" out of Scenario 1 for me, Thanks :)

*slaps SoA and SoE*
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Lord Oddeye sama » Sat Sep 09 2006 9:51pm

I voted for Postive/Negative Energy as well, though I think Power is good too. But now that it's been mentioned, I prefer Energy.
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Wargasm @ Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 am wrote:Vous êtes tous douches. J'aime le monde des poissons bleus.

Do you like Shining Force 1? Do you like orchestral remixes? Then this is for you: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24551#p668069
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Wargasm @ Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 am wrote:Vous êtes tous douches. J'aime le monde des poissons bleus.

Do you like Shining Force 1? Do you like orchestral remixes? Then this is for you: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24551#p668069
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Rusty » Sat Sep 09 2006 10:43pm

Aspartate @ Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:43 pm) wrote: Rusty-
These two phrases are new. They weren't in past games, and were ignored or replaced in Scenario 1. There's not much need to consider consistency.

I wasn't referring to the games - I was referring to the entire series. :]
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Swalchy » Sun Sep 10 2006 12:07am

Rusty @ Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:43 pm) wrote: I wasn't referring to the games - I was referring to the entire series. :]

What do you think Aspartate was refering to when she said " They weren't in past games, and were ignored or replaced in Scenario 1." ?

Aspartate was refering to the Entire series as well
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Rusty » Sun Sep 10 2006 12:10am

These particular devils and gods, no. But the phrase 'Powers of Light' was used NUMEROUSLY in Shining Force 1. So if that's what she was referring to (or maybe she was referring to the Japanese versions?), then no.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Swalchy » Sun Sep 10 2006 12:14am

Rusty @ Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:10 pm) wrote: These particular devils and gods, no.? But the phrase 'Powers of Light' was used NUMEROUSLY in Shining Force 1.? So if that's what she was referring to (or maybe she was referring to the Japanese versions?), then no.

I believe the "Powers of Light/Darkness" and this "negative/postivie power/energy/chi" are two completely different things - the latter being the one Aspartate is talking about :)

It's actually quite apparent from her first post that the powers of Light/darkness and this positive/negative power are quite different:

"Aspartate) wrote:正の力 (The Positive Chikara) - power of the Innovators, of the bright side of human mind.
負の力(The Negative Chikara) - power of the Vandals, of the dark side of human mind.


Quite obviously different to the "Powers of Light and Darkness" which most assuredly didn't appear in previous Shining games.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Sun Sep 10 2006 1:56am

Aspartate @ Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:43 pm) wrote: Ha ha. I suppose you think that's funny?
I don't know how you take it as a "please nitpick me" request. I'm asking people who thought of other options to check the link and see if the thing he came up with fitted. For example, "aura" doesn't.
Why the heck would I want people to check if Force fitted? Of course it does. I'm aware of what I'm writing. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

????

But look what you posted before. I thought you were asking if Force fit well in that scene 3 script. You did not mention to us to fit what we thought into the scene 3 script. I thought you were asking us to see if "Force" fit and hence to leave it as it was (since Force is an option in the polls). :)

And yes, I do think it is funny: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

And YOU ARE VERY WELCOME! :) :) :)


Ok, back to business. I think the terms "Power of Darkness/Light" refers to an amorphous entity than CAN be represented through a living object. As for Positive Force/Chi/what-have-you/etc., it describes the entity itself (at least it sounds like that to me).

So I think "Power" should be avoided. But this is just me.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Rusty » Sun Sep 10 2006 2:57am

Then if we're talking about the human mind, I'm gonna have to go with Other: Spirit.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Aspartate » Sun Sep 10 2006 12:57pm

Marky @ Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:56 am) wrote: But look what you posted before. I thought you were asking if Force fit well in that scene 3 script.

Well you've mistaken.
Why can't you just shut up and admit you have mistaken? Or should I say, you've let your "yay my English is so gooooood!" arrogance blinded you?

What Swalchy said is correct.
The phrases "negative/postivie power/energy/chi" are brand new. They had never appeared in any Shining game other than SF3.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Sun Sep 10 2006 5:24pm

Aspartate @ Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:57 pm) wrote: Well you've mistaken.
Why can't you just shut up and admit you have mistaken? Or should I say, you've let your "yay my English is so gooooood!" arrogance blinded you?

What Swalchy said is correct.
The phrases "negative/postivie power/energy/chi" are brand new. They had never appeared in any Shining game other than SF3.

What are you talking about? Arrogance? WTF are you talking about? I never mentioned how "good my English is". I am merely saying how I interpretted what you wrote in one of your posts.

You mentioned "Folks suggesting other options, please search for Force ... and see if IT fits in".

So when you mentioned to see if IT fits in, I thought the IT was referring to Force, not the Options. And because you inferred that, I thought you wanted to know if Force fits, and I thought you wanted to leave it that way.

If you are getting worked up over something like this, and if you feel you're being offended by me, then stress probably got the best of you. You should take a vacation.

Rusty: If you use spirit, how about Psyche? They both sorta mean the same thing. But if you stick with Spirit, it parallels with what the Creator keeps doing over and over throughout the SF3 trilogy & prequel: The Creator bringing "Spirits" to mortal beings.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Aspartate » Mon Sep 11 2006 2:10am

Marky @ Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:24 am) wrote:So when you mentioned to see if IT fits in, I thought the IT was referring to Force, not the Options. And because you inferred that, I thought you wanted to know if Force fits, and I thought you wanted to leave it that way.

If you are getting worked up over something like this, and if you feel you're being offended by me, then stress probably got the best of you. You should take a vacation.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could describe in a civilized way like this sooner? You know what's disgusting about your posts? It's your mimicking and sarcasm, plus the all hyped up smilies.

Yeah I'm probably a little stressed out. It's been a while since I last dealt with uncivilized creatures.



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Palsis) wrote:Are you wondering about that gem floating in the air...? Even I do not know exactly what it is. However, the more activity in the evil sect's army, the brighter the gem glows... It seems to be an indicator of the dark power of Bulzome.

Palsis) wrote:This is still just my own speculation, but dark human emotions like terrror, hate, and despair seem to feed the Vandal. Take a look at that. That seems to be the measuring device for the dark power. Its brilliance increases as more and more warfare breaks out.

Murasame) wrote:Yes, I understand, Duke Palsis. I shall destroy the staff with the Dark Force power.:Yarrrggg!

Basanda) wrote:That was not my doing... However, one who has not given his soul to the Dark Force, cannot touch, let alone destroy, that staff.

Dantares) wrote:It's no use... The staff with the Dark Force... sunk into the water... with Basanda.

(As I said before, there is another phrase for "dark force" in that section. But they just used "dark force" everywhere.)



Energy it is. Discussion in this thread already gave examples on how generic "power" is, and how confusing it can be.

This vote can be closed.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Mon Sep 11 2006 2:42am

Aspartate @ Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:10 am) wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if you could describe in a civilized way like this sooner? You know what's disgusting about your posts? It's your mimicking and sarcasm, plus the all hyped up smilies.

Yeah I'm probably a little stressed out. It's been a while since I last dealt with uncivilized creatures.


I kept telling you that. You just did not read my posts properly, or you just misinterpretted them. Please re-read YOUR post that started all this first. You will notice why I interpretted and responded that way.

And second, being sarcastic makes me uncivilized? Wow, that's an interesting perspective. I was not being sarcastic in any of these posts. How you interpret them is your business. But I was direct in explaining what you wrote. READ MY POSTS. And I was not mimicing. Do you even know what "mimcing" means? So neither am I uncivilized nor was I sarcastic. Definitely was I not "mimicing". You just chose to interpret what I said in a totally different direction, probably because you have negative preconceptions about yourself. Hence, you're probably worried about how other people perceive you. Funny, you get worked up over how YOU interpretted or saw something that clearly wasn't there.

The only thing you can tack me on are the smiley faces. That was done because of your reaction to whatever "mimicing" or "sarcasm" or "uncouth" behavior I done. Although none of my posts exhibited those qualities. I just thought the way you were doing things was unneccessary.

If you don't understand something, don't be shy to ask. If you don't know how to express a thought properly, then maybe you should ask somebody how that expression can be interpretted so that it may decrease ambiguity. If you re-read your post that originated in all this, well you would know exactly how a 2nd party would interpret it.

Man, I have to deal with ignorant, arrogant, and presumptuous things every day. And these things are that way because of their background.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Aspartate » Mon Sep 11 2006 3:35am

Really? And I suppose you "Case closed!!!!!:)" is a friendly remark without mimicking and without sarcasm?
And I suppose that 3 rows of hyped up smilies are friendly as well?
That's something new.

Okay. What I wrote was "Folks suggesting other options, please search for "Negative Force" in Scenario 3 script and see if it fits in."
"It" = "other options", as mentioned previously in the sentence. And because it's directed toward "folks suggesting other options".
If I want someone to check if "force" fitted, anyone could do it. Why should it be limited to "folks suggesting other options"?

And the way you responded showed no intend of saying it fits. You quoted a line and said "you used positive/negative force". How does that has anything to do with fitting or not?
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Mon Sep 11 2006 3:57am

Aspartate @ Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:35 am) wrote: Really? And I suppose you "Case closed!!!!!:)" is a friendly remark without mimicking and without sarcasm?
And I suppose that 3 rows of hyped up smilies are friendly as well?
That's something new.

Okay. What I wrote was "Folks suggesting other options, please search for "Negative Force" in Scenario 3 script and see if it fits in."
"It" = "other options", as mentioned previously in the sentence. And because it's directed toward "folks suggesting other options".
If I want someone to check if "force" fitted, anyone could do it. Why should it be limited to "folks suggesting other options"?

And the way you responded showed no intend of saying it fits. You quoted a line and said "you used positive/negative force". How does that has anything to do with fitting or not?

Maybe slightly mimicing, ok. I'll give you that, as I didn't recall it in your post but after re-examination, you mentioned it. And that's probably when I sub-consciously added it into one of my responses.

Second, "IT" is singular. Because it was singular, the only other singular noun was Force in that one post. That's how grammar rules work. If you used "they", then I would have understood. Here, and elsewhere in the United States, if you are not technical with terms, nobody will understand what you say or what you mean by the words you choose. Do YOU understand now? Don't be one sided in a conversation; don't express one thing and have yourself understand. Because in a conversation/dialogue, there are at least 2 people involved, and you must assume the mind of the person with whom you are conversing. This ensures you mean exactly with what you say, and anybody knows what you are saying. People like me who are "uncivilized" can't read your MIND.

And second, the way I responded with "yeppers, you used Force" or what-have-you. I was answering the question you inferred; again, I will reiterate because you clearly did not or cannot read and UNDERSTAND what you wrote and what I wrote. You inferred a question as if you were asking if the word Force fit; I answered it with that short post. And you could have realised that "Force" fit. I probably should have also said if it "fits",. But you just wanted to know if it (It being FORCE) was appropriate; at least that was what you basically said. I was merely confirming that.


Furthermore, you even ask "Was my English that bad?" as if you have a preconception of saying something incorrectly and thus being ambiguous in meaning (in which case you did). Well, I didn't bother answering that one because I know from where you came from and your language is Mandarin Chinese/Mandarin Taiwanese. And you sounded as if you had a negative preconception of how people listened to/viewed you, as if you noticed that you may have done something incorrectly. You should realise now where you stand in all this.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Rusty » Mon Sep 11 2006 8:33am

*Shakes his head.*

I regret that thought that I might have contributed any negativity in this thread due to my misunderstanding earlier of what exactly was being translated/worded here.

But this...That this topic has degraded so much, so quickly. And from two members that are normally quite mature about things. I'm deeply disappointed. Granted, it could be worse. This barely is anything at all, but a nuisance - regardless, a nuisance that should not have happened.

Yes, it is a well-established fact that not everyone speaks English as their first language. Furthermore, many that do still do not properly speak English - and even among those that do, their grammar is not always perfect. Poking at such things incessantly is a rather ridiculous thing to do here. This is a message board, for crying out loud.

And name calling? Ridiculous. I understand what it's like to be stressed out, but this is the Internet. It's considerably easier to show restraint here since you're not expected to reply immediately.

Whatever. I don't want to see this happen again.

I hope one of the admins or kod comes along here, since I apparently can't lock topics in this forum. *Sigh*
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Orange Gort » Mon Sep 11 2006 10:36am

Rusty) wrote:*Shakes his head.*

I regret that thought that I might have contributed any negativity in this thread due to my misunderstanding earlier of what exactly was being translated/worded here.


I don't think you contributed to this at all. So don't blame yourself. It is simply a misunderstanding to which people reacted adversly. I don't think anybody is to blame. We all get carried away sometimes.

So energy it is. Great!
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby legalize freedom » Mon Sep 11 2006 2:29pm

From my perspective (not that anyone asked) and experience, Aspartate's english is very good... better than most with english as their first language...

Aspartate is arguably the most important person involved in this translation project. Her work is top notch, her personallity is top notch and her interaction is top notch.

Please just give opinions when she asks and If you don't understand the question, either don't reply or very politely ask for more information.

If you knew/know how much effort she is putting into this project, you would grant her every benefit of the doubt and not waste her time.

We all owe her more than we know.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Mon Sep 11 2006 5:11pm

legalize freedom @ Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:29 pm) wrote:
Please just give opinions when she asks and If you don't understand the question, either don't reply or very politely ask for more information.


Aspartate wrote one thing, but in that question she meant another. Please read it yourself. And I did provide my opinion. People just took it in the wrong direction, as if I INTENDED to be offensive. If you read my posts, you would notice how I interpretted them. And No, I was not being picky either. How anybody thought I was picky is beyond me. I was not even correcting somebody's grammar either. I am just used to speaking the way I was taught and I UNCONSCIOUSLY apply those grammar rules; they are second-nature to me.

And funny, somebody to point at another for "apparently citing" grammar rules is on the line. However, the finger pointer has been known to openly correct grammar. I know I am being pushy, but I must have to inform you how that is a bit of a hypocrisy. I am not grammatically "perfect" either, but some posts can be interpretted a particular way because of the way they are written although the poster/author meant something entirely different due to a choice of words.

If people (not just her) has questions asking about opinions, then please word them properly, otherwise the questions can be ambiguous.

That was what happened here.

I don't deny her importance; but if something is being asked and it is done in a way that can signify one thing but was meant to be another, then that would create miscommunication, as it was done here, correct?

I merely explained to her again and again why I interpretted that way. Unconsciously, I interpretted what she meant (at least how she phrased it). And she became upset. And you make it sound as if I did not understand what she was asking, even though the choice of words clearly said one thing but the poster meant another. How can I read somebody else's mind?


And another thing, if anybody (I'm not targetting anyone.) wants to mediate an argument, then please do not let your personal biases get in the way. Please see the entire reason that led up to it.

Although I sound harsh or stern in this post or other posts, well, no, I am not being offensive, nor is it my intent to be that way. However, if you choose that route and jump on me, I can justifiably retaliate.

I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby knight0fdragon » Thu Sep 14 2006 3:07am

You know, a certain phrase comes to mind when reading this,
When you "assume", you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me".


Here is what I am going to do since neither of you are on my shit list, and I am hoping that you 2 will be dropping your little quarrel that has been going on here.

I am going to lock this thread.

Aspartate can open a new pole if she wishes regarding this topic.

If this happens, all quarrel from here will not even be mentioned over in the new topic, if you have a problem take it somewhere else. If any of this happens again, I will take a more severe action.



And to answer your question Aspartate, I can add more choices to the poll, just send me a PM if ever needed and I will react to it faster.
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