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Positive / Negative thing

A place for those working on the Shining Force III Translation Patch.

What should the power of Innovator / Vandal be called?

Positive Power / Negative Power
3
33%
Positive Force / Negative Force
2
22%
Positive Energy / Negative Energy
4
44%
Positive Chikara / Negative Chikara
0
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Total votes : 9

Positive / Negative thing

Postby Aspartate » Thu Sep 07 2006 6:17am

I need some advice these two phrases that'll appear frequently in Scenario 2 and 3.

正の力 (The Positive Chikara) - power of the Innovators, of the bright side of human mind.
負の力(The Negative Chikara) - power of the Vandals, of the dark side of human mind.

There's no consistancy problem, since these two phrases was never officially or properly translated. I compared the English script of Scenario 1 with the original:
1. Basanda said "ダークフォース" (Dark Force) when referring to Spiriel. While referring to her staff, the phrase "負の力" (Negative Chikara) is used, but SoA used "Dark Force" anyway.
2. Palsis mentioned "負の力" twice on Lookover Tower, but was ignored in the English script.

So the "Positive/Negative _____" is left blank. Force, power, energy, even chikara can fit in. But I would definately not use "Light/Dark Force" as a substitute! (Especially after a certain moronic game misused the word "force" and became a Star Wars wannabe.)
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Cullsoft » Thu Sep 07 2006 7:37pm

I was gonna say "Force" as it was used in the Sc1 translation, but then I was reminded of the abuse of the phrase, so it's lost my vote. ;) "Power" sounds best to me, with "Energy" close behind.

As for "Chikara"... isn't that generally translted as Chakra, or am I thinking of something different (IIRC, Chakra refers to a sort of "spirit enrgy" inside all of us)? Either way, it comes cross to me as too much of a non-standard/uncommon term, so one of the others may sound better.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Kazgaroth » Thu Sep 07 2006 8:01pm

Why 'Pos/Neg'?
That sounds kind of...'Direct literal translation tacky'.
What about the ever used 'Light/Dark'?
'Life/Death'?
'Soul/Void'?
Or...
My favourite...


'Elbesem/Bulzome'?
I'm also thinking a bit of 'Influence' usage would be cool, or maybe using 'Soul' as the form?
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Cullsoft » Thu Sep 07 2006 8:41pm

Kazgaroth @ Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:01 pm) wrote: My favourite...


'Elbesem/Bulzome'?

They're nouns, not adjectives. Bad choice.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Dr. Casey » Thu Sep 07 2006 8:43pm

Out of the choices, positive energy and negative energy. I disagree that it's too reminiscent of Sailor Moon; I've watched the first 162 episodes over the last two months and it doesn't really remind me of SM.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Kazgaroth » Thu Sep 07 2006 8:53pm

Culley O'Fursdom @ Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:41 pm) wrote: They're nouns, not adjectives. Bad choice.

But they can be substituded.

'She was possesed by the Bulzome Influence'?
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Demonic Weasel » Thu Sep 07 2006 10:36pm

Out of those choices it'd probably be power with energy as a backup.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Fri Sep 08 2006 3:01am

For me, it is Force with energy as the back up.

But is it too late to include the following:

Positive / Negative Aura

Positive / Negative Chi <<<----- This one is a stretch.

Positive / Negative Ki ? <<< ------- This one is a stretch too. And "ki" is a force that or something taught in Aikido, I believe.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Rusty » Fri Sep 08 2006 3:59am

I'll say power, for the Powers of Light and the Powers of Darkness. Been there since SF1.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Aspartate » Fri Sep 08 2006 4:19am

Culley O'Fursdom @ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:37 am) wrote: I was gonna say "Force" as it was used in the Sc1 translation, but then I was reminded of the abuse of the phrase, so it's lost my vote. ;) "Power" sounds best to me, with "Energy" close behind.

Aye. I didn't hesitate on using "Positive/Negative Force" when translating Scenario 3 about 5 years ago. But now, thanks to the abuse in those Shinny games, I feel using the word "force" for any meanings other than "army" means ignorance, laziness, and stupidity. (Only in Shining games of course.)

Chikara= Japanese. Power/energy/force(in physics)/etc.
Chakra= Hinduism. Metaphysical and/or biophysical energy residing in the human body.

Folks suggesting other options, please search for "Negative Force" in Scenario 3 script and see if it fits in.
Positive/Negative can't be changed to Innovator/Vandal, since they belong to all mankind.

I think Chakra and Ki/Chi can fit in. Might be uncommon though.
Which one is more well known? Ki, Chi, or Qi?
Umm... Is it possible for a mod to change the vote options?
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Fri Sep 08 2006 4:49am

IMO, I think Chi might be the most common. But that's just me.

And in the Scenario 3 script, you have


Synbios:
That collision of the positive and negative force... It must have been unimaginable.

So yeppers, you used Positive and Negative Force.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Aspartate » Fri Sep 08 2006 6:03am

Marky @ Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:49 am) wrote: So yeppers, you used Positive and Negative Force.

I fail to see the meaning of this comment.

The purpose of that link was for getting an idea on what purpose these two phrase serve, so yall won't make suggestions that miss the target by a mile. It's not for "oh my god I just discovered you used force so case closed!" thank you very much!

If you know how much effort was put into each bit of translation, you'll know I cannot forget anything I translated.
Of course I remember what I used, though I want to change it to avoid connection to Sega's idiocy. I believe that's what's written in my last post. Or was my English really that bad?
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Orange Gort » Fri Sep 08 2006 7:26am

Power sounds too generic.

Energy would be better than power definately.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Cullsoft » Fri Sep 08 2006 8:59pm

Aspartate @ Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:19 am) wrote: I think Chakra and Ki/Chi can fit in. Might be uncommon though.
Which one is more well known? Ki, Chi, or Qi?

Out of those, I'd say Chi is the most recognizable. Though that said, all three spellings (and also Xi) count in Scrabble.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Sat Sep 09 2006 2:11am

Aspartate @ Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:19 am) wrote:
Folks suggesting other options, please search for "Negative Force" in Scenario 3 script and see if it fits in.

Uh, Aspartate, by this statement, you inferred a question. You are asking people who thought of other options to check the link and see if the Force thing fitted. And you asked us to check with the script. So that's what I did.

Case closed!!! :)


Power sounds like a cliche. Power this, Power up, Power that, Power of Darkness, Power of Light; so I'm with Orange Gort on this one.

As for Chi, I'm with Cull, I've heard it a lot more than the others. And to Culley, thank you for the Scrabble tip.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Rusty » Sat Sep 09 2006 2:44am

Are cliches really bad?

Besides, it's already been referred to as power ;_;
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Orange Gort » Sat Sep 09 2006 5:26am

They are if you don't want it to sound like a generic cut and paste storyline. I also think Xi and energy flow a little better, and give a better feel to the suggested term. If we're gonna call it power then we might as well rename a few of the characters May, Luke, or Max. And lets revive Dark Dragon again while we're at it.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Demonic Weasel » Sat Sep 09 2006 3:30pm

Not really. Cliche's don't make an entire storyline seem generic if the rest of the plot isn't cliched.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Marky » Sat Sep 09 2006 3:52pm

Rusty @ Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:44 am) wrote: Are cliches really bad?

Besides, it's already been referred to as power ;_;

Yes, they are, especially if cliches can make a great game dull because you heard the word Power all media that you make SF3 a bit insignificant and generic. OG and DW are on the ball.

Second, if the terms were translated to something different (Force, Energy, Chi/Xi/Ki, etc.), the game would sound "new"; in fact, it may even hold your interests longer than if you have the term "power" overused in this game and in other media.
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Re: Positive / Negative thing

Postby Rusty » Sat Sep 09 2006 7:44pm

I disagree. There's a reason cliches are cliches. Generally, they're good, and that's why they're used so often. This isn't always the case, but it often is. And I see nothing wrong with the use of the word "Power", especially since I feel it's most appropriate. Not only does it keep a thing called 'consistency', which is one of the most important factors in games or any 'world', really, but also because it makes more sense than energy. Power is more of a generic term, but better describes these gods and devils. Keep in mind these gods and devils have actual physical forms. The exception is Elbesem, but energy still wouldn't make as much sense here, since you'd be more or less referring to his spirit.

So, shouldn't it be Positive or Negative Spirit, then?

Or if we ARE talking about their physical bodies and powers, Power is more appropriate, since I feel energy generally feels less 'physical'. You have to remember that we're not dealing with a God like our own - these are very different gods and devils - and the devils are constantly getting involved with worldly affairs as actual beings. How wouldn't Power make sense here?
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