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Ghosting

Possible Solution-updated

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Ghosting

Postby legalize freedom » Tue Sep 15 2015 6:07pm

The character ghosting in the status dialog is happening earlier and worse than I remember (in Sc2 at least). For those who are unfamiliar with the cause, there is believed to be a limit to the number of characters that can be on screen at any given time. You can see an example of this in the image below where Campbell and Syntesis have ghosting in their HP and MP.

I noticed that under Condition everyone lists "Normal" unless they suffer from a condition and this appears to add very little information for all those letters. Four force members in the list at once x6 letters is 24 letters.

I suggest this be changed. I believe it would be fine just to be blank if there were no conditions. That would give us a min of 20 characters extra. I don't know if a space in the line counts, thus the minus 4.

Other options are "Fine" or "Good", but those would only afford an additional 8 characters. That would help, but leaving it blank may nearly solve the issue.

I'm certain this line is used elsewhere, but I believe only in similar ways to the status dialog where it isn't as useful as eliminating the ghosting.

Image

Update:
In my initial testing, I see no evidence of ghosting after removing the Normal entries.

Something else is I don't believe any positive status effects are displayed under "Condition".
This would open the possibility of re-naming Condition to Ailments or similar. The blank area there would then make perfect sense. I would be open to suggestions for replacement wording. It could also stay Condition. Keep in mind Dead does display here.

Anyone know for sure if any positive status effects appear under Condition across all scenarios?
I see Attack, Support and Resist in the game files, but I don't recall if they ever show up. I just used the swift boots for a support in Sc2 and nothing shows up in the status dialog.
Last edited by legalize freedom on Tue Sep 15 2015 8:45pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ghosting

Postby Xiados » Tue Sep 15 2015 7:25pm

Or even just "OK"
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Re: Ghosting

Postby Swalchy » Wed Sep 16 2015 5:13pm

I think Xiados' idea of "OK" would be good. That should give an extra 16 characters, without having to resort to blank spaces :)
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Re: Ghosting

Postby legalize freedom » Wed Sep 16 2015 5:41pm

Xiados wrote:Or even just "OK"


It is a great suggestion, but I have intentionally gone away from the use of "OK" throughout the translations. I have used "okay", but I think of OK as an abbreviation.

It's a great solution from a number of letters point of view and I'm not necessarily against it, but I think it would look odd here and I'd like to find a more elegant solution.

You could help bring me around to it by showing me a positive status effect that shows up under Condition. If this is just for negative effects, it makes the solution pretty clear to me.

Is something obviously missing here? I think it would work, esp if this column was re-named creatively.

Image

I'll also add that if this is able to completely get rid of the ghosting, that should be the primary goal. Life without ghosting would be better than any word appearing in this column.
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Re: Ghosting

Postby Xiados » Wed Sep 16 2015 7:07pm

That's understandable. It's been a while since I played. I see the little picture in the example - are there just pictures or such for the status effects? Leaving it blank might just be the thing (or edit in a thumbs up picture? >__>)

As you mention, if there are only negative conditions that show up, you could even shorten CONDITION to AILMENT or whatever other word to grab a few extra spaces too?
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Re: Ghosting

Postby Lord Oddeye sama » Thu Sep 17 2015 8:50am

legalize freedom wrote:Update:
In my initial testing, I see no evidence of ghosting after removing the Normal entries.

Something else is I don't believe any positive status effects are displayed under "Condition".
This would open the possibility of re-naming Condition to Ailments or similar. The blank area there would then make perfect sense. I would be open to suggestions for replacement wording. It could also stay Condition. Keep in mind Dead does display here.

Anyone know for sure if any positive status effects appear under Condition across all scenarios?
I see Attack, Support and Resist in the game files, but I don't recall if they ever show up. I just used the swift boots for a support in Sc2 and nothing shows up in the status dialog.

The only place I can think of where that could happen is the in-battle status screen (Press B to bring up the cursor then A on an empty spot). However I've just tested this in scenario 1 and it doesn't update with positive status effects like Attack and Support/Resist. I don't think that changed in later scenarios.
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Re: Ghosting

Postby legalize freedom » Sun Sep 20 2015 11:43pm

It is pretty clear to me that we need to blank out these normal entries. There is just too much benefit not to.

The thing that needs some additional thought is what to name the column.

I'm leaning toward "EFFECTS". That is short for status effects, which is actually what these are. It is also the shortest of my suggestions here. The Antidote spell and Fairy Powder descriptions would also need to change to match the new wording.
~1-247~ Spell Des:
Cure Poison & Paralyze, L2 Cure most Effects
~2-114~ Item Des:
Cures most Effects

"CONDITIONS" plural would be good, but it starts to encroach into the HP column with the extra letter.

"AILMENTS" would make sense, but it's a bit of an odd word.

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Re: Ghosting

Postby Century » Mon Sep 21 2015 7:39am

legalize freedom wrote:I'm leaning toward "EFFECTS". That is short for status effects, which is actually what these are. It is also the shortest of my suggestions here. The Antidote spell and Fairy Powder descriptions would also need to change to match the new wording.
~1-247~ Spell Des:
Cure Poison & Paralyze, L2 Cure most Effects
~2-114~ Item Des:
Cures most Effects

"CONDITIONS" plural would be good, but it starts to encroach into the HP column with the extra letter.

"AILMENTS" would make sense, but it's a bit of an odd word.

"Effects" does not infer whether they're positive or negative, or both. Do positive effects show up here? If so, fine. If not, then I don't think "Effect"should be used.

Condition is fine as a singular since it is suggestive of a negative issue and has the connotation of containing multiple problems. One might ask "What condition are they in?" to which the reply could include multiple ailments. It could also mean that, if letters aren't a problem, the generic positive condition could be "Good".
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Re: Ghosting

Postby legalize freedom » Mon Sep 21 2015 12:20pm

"Condition" as it stands could work, but it infers there should always be a value in the column which I'm trying to get away from. So a blank Condition column seems odd. A plural "Conditions" doesn't seem to warrant a value if none exist. So that's my thinking on that.

Whereas "Effects" infers there only needs to be a value when an effect is present and would cover the event if a positive was listed. But I don't believe anything positive shows up in this column.
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Re: Ghosting

Postby Lord Kane » Mon Sep 21 2015 5:04pm

The effect "berserk" is not really a positive but at least an ambivalent one.


For me it would be a really great thing if it would be possible to implement the boost effects (support, magic resist and attack) in this column. I always hated that unlike SF II or SFCD such a feature was not implemented in SF III. :damnit:

But I fear, this is a too difficult task, right? :shifty:
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Re: Ghosting

Postby Swalchy » Mon Sep 21 2015 6:42pm

Yes that certainly is.

Remember that we can only manipulate already existing text or static images - we can't recode the game to show extra images or text :)
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Re: Ghosting

Postby knight0fdragon » Tue Sep 22 2015 4:01am

how did you guys get static images to show up, were there control codes? also did that guy ever release his compressor that made the files 1:1 with the original?


IIRC the status effect only changed when things could be cured with items or spells, I do not remember there being a spell that removes good effects, but it has been a while since I played this game
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Re: Ghosting

Postby legalize freedom » Tue Sep 22 2015 12:14pm

knight0fdragon wrote:how did you guys get static images to show up, were there control codes? also did that guy ever release his compressor that made the files 1:1 with the original?


IIRC the status effect only changed when things could be cured with items or spells, I do not remember there being a spell that removes good effects, but it has been a while since I played this game


The game does these images by default. You are thinking of the Magic Defense area that have images in Sc1, but we had to resort to text in the others.

I have the new compressor, but a form was never created for its ease of use.

You're probably right. A big reason why the status effects are listed in the status dialog is to show how they can be cured.
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Re: Ghosting

Postby knight0fdragon » Wed Sep 23 2015 4:53am

one of my disks that housed the old source code got damaged, I'm hoping to find the others. I though I publicly shared it on some ftp site, but i can't seem to find it,

wish i knew what i missed when encoding, I think it had to do with multi passing but i don't remember, it is a shame nobody else has been able to come up with anything yet
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Re: Ghosting

Postby legalize freedom » Wed Sep 23 2015 12:11pm

It would certainly save some effort when dealing with reducing file size, esp in Sc3.
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