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Guardian Pillar?

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Guardian Pillar?

Postby legalize freedom » Thu Jan 21 2010 2:49am

These are the big columns outside Elbesem temple that give the electric shock during that battle.

After getting an even more in-depth translation and explaination of these things from Atolm, I have decided to open the naming of these up again. Guardian Pillar works in the Shining universe, but I'm not sure it works perfect for these things.

Please read Atolm's explaination below, share any additional information you can attest to and suggest a more appropriate name.

Beginning of Atolm's description:
From the context here, it would seem that the Core is precisely that -- the core or central component of a larger mechanical structure that is somehow engaged in controlling energy flow. I haven't looked at the lines in a long time now, but if I remember correctly, there is some mention of energy flowing back into the core due to the destruction of the Guardian Statue in Scenario 1, thereby destabilizing the protective shield around Elbesem. In the Japanese, it is written as "koa," which is merely a transliteration of the English "core," hence my use of the term.

It would seem that each individual pillar is referred to as a "Core" in its own right;
the Japanese language doesn't usually distinguish between singular and plural forms, so treating them in the plural when they are being referenced as a collective would be perfectly acceptable, I think. My guess is that they are functioning like multiple engines or processors working in tandem; whether or not there is some central device to which they are all connected I do not know, but since each is referred to as a "core," my assumption would be no. Personally, I don't care for the term "guardian pillar," since that necessarily obfuscates the technological/mechanical aspect of the apparatus and forces a reversion to a purely fantastical reading.
End of Atolm's description:

Here also is an observation from Chris of the German Translation Project.

Atolms translation brings a new viewpoint into the story. What’s originally called Core, a mechanic emitter of (holy) energy (probably from the 1000 year kingdom) and stood in connection with the guardian statue - is at the moment called “Guardian Pillar” and described as a protective device which attacks you. The Core however had a short circuit since the holy energy from the guardian statue came back and caused damage to it. Therefore it is randomly doing an electric discharge (Attack). This “Incident” is what people are talking about in Barrand and Elbesem.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby Rems » Thu Jan 21 2010 3:40pm

It seems to me that calling them Guardian Pillar is fare enough since their original function seems to be protecting the temple. The fact that Guardian Pillar doesn't refer to the mechanics as much as Core doesn't shock much since the people of SFIII do not understand well those 1000 year old technology.

Now I understand there is a translation difficulty raising from 2 facts: one is that core is an English term that has a pretty loose meaning (that is can refer to a lot of different things) and is not very satisfying; second is the fact that Japanese disregard singular/plural forms.

So, if I were you, I would be satisfied with Guardian Pillar, but if you'd like to deal with the singular/plural issue, I suggest to refer to the geometrical form of the 6 pillars/cores to give an impression of pluralism in unity. So that the name could be something like: "The Hexagonal Shield"

Hope it helps the brainstorming.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby legalize freedom » Wed Jul 04 2018 12:48pm

So I again bring up the naming of these things in the Elbesem Temple courtyard.

During my current work, but prior to hunting down this thread, I saw a need to change the name from Guaridan Pillar to *something* Core based on the translation review of the dialog surrounding Elbesem and the terms used to explain the situation.

Then after hunting it down, I realized Atolm said this very thing way back then, so I'm pretty sure this is the correct course.

The only two names that really come to me are:

Elbesem Temple Core
and simply
Temple Core

The first is probably preferable since it is more descriptive and it apparently works without issue. I've attached an image of it in game.

Any objections?
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby Kalkano » Wed Jul 04 2018 8:17pm

Just throwing out another option:

Guardian Core

I don't really have a preference, though.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby Special T » Fri Jul 06 2018 1:08pm

I think Elbesem Temple Core is fine
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby Chinagonuk » Fri Jul 06 2018 8:39pm

Elbesem Temple Core looks fine.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby knight0fdragon » Sun Jul 08 2018 4:57am

Elbesem Core would also work
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby Swalchy » Sun Jul 08 2018 10:30am

Am Fan of Elbesem Temple Core.

Don't think 'Elbesem Core' would work too well, as that would indicate they're the cores of Elbesem themselves!
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby knight0fdragon » Sun Jul 08 2018 5:04pm

Yes... that is the whole point, Just like the Temple is of Elbesem and the Orb is of Elbesem. The cores lie in the courtyard of the temple, not inside the actual temple. If we are going to go off of the theory that the energy of the Guardian Statue returns to the core, and that these cores emit energy, then we would want the energy to be that of Elbesem, thus Elbesem Core.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby legalize freedom » Sun Jul 08 2018 8:32pm

I believe Swalchy means Elbesem Core would imply (or at least be confused as) the cores are of the village, which is quite a distance from the temple. Adding "temple" in there makes it clear and the game doesn't seem to have an issue with the length.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby knight0fdragon » Sun Jul 08 2018 11:55pm

Why would it cause confusion like that, you are at the courtyard of the Temple when you are fighting them, anybody who assumes that it refers to the village of Elbesem needs to have something checked, or at the very least, pay better attention to the story. But the core shouldn't really be linked to a place, it should go to the Elbesem God since it is not really a pillar of the temple, but more of a holy energy containing machine like the Guardian Statue. It is called the Guardian Statue of Elbesem, but I did not think I was in Elbesem lol so technically I guess it should be called Core(s) of Elbesem,
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby legalize freedom » Mon Jul 09 2018 12:27pm

Well, we really should make the patch accessible even to those who need to get something checked. :)

My understanding is that they are indeed cores of the temple (and part of the machine as you note), but I see your point. Their exact nature, as with many things, isn't spelled out, so there can be many interpretations.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby knight0fdragon » Tue Jul 10 2018 12:01am

Yep, unfortunately, that is the problem. We are going off strict translations here. I just think that if the cores were designed for the temple, they would have been placed inside of it. I wonder if maybe we missed something in the books that talk about them a little bit more and their purpose. Are they designed for all of Elbesem, or just the tower. You know, as I sit here looking at the script, later on Gracia does refer to "Elbesem Temple core", do we know the accuracy of this line? It happens during the seal breaking to get the Besem staff.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby legalize freedom » Tue Jul 10 2018 12:34pm

Those lines have been reviewed, yes, but I'm not sure that kind of nuance is present. In the grand scheme of things I don't think it matters that much anyway. Their purpose is understood.

The Elbesem Statue is a statue of the likeness of Elbesem, thus the name. That doesn't really affect its purpose in the "machine" (although you could see it as both). The same could be assumed for these cores. Whatever you call them isn't necessarily describing what they do (although the previous name attempted that, in error I might add).

Technically, the temple is at a specific place, but I do see the courtyard as being part of the temple. Like a front door of a museum. The door isn't the museum technically, but it is a part of it.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby Swalchy » Tue Jul 10 2018 2:14pm

Just to clarify: when I said 'the cores of Elbesem', I was referring to the god, not the place.

Hence: confusion (as also proved by how others have taken my reference to 'Elbesem', mistakenly thinking I was referring to the town and not the god).

Probably also not helped by my use of 'themselves' rather than 'himself/herself' :)
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby legalize freedom » Tue Jul 10 2018 6:28pm

Swalchy wrote:Just to clarify: when I said 'the cores of Elbesem', I was referring to the god, not the place.

Hence: confusion (as also proved by how others have taken my reference to 'Elbesem', mistakenly thinking I was referring to the town and not the god).

Probably also not helped by my use of 'themselves' rather than 'himself/herself' :)


It's a good conversation to have, so no harm done.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby knight0fdragon » Tue Jul 10 2018 10:51pm

Well the reason why I ask is because we actually may be introducing confusion. When Gracia is talking about the core of the Temple, I do not think he is referring to the devices in the court yard. He may actually be referring to the true core of the Temple. Now according to our translation, the core is destroyed prior to Bulzome Sect entering Elbesem (the town/island/region whatever you want to call it lol) while Gracia is off on his journey. If these were the units sitting in the courtyard, "destroyed" wouldn't have been the proper word to use, it would have been converted or succumbed to dark energy. This is why I ask about the translation. I can't find a let's play of the Japanese version of scenario 2, so I am unable to see if that specific line actually states "Temple Core". Then I have to ask why didn't the developers also call it "Temple Core" in the battle, and simply Core. It would seem inconsistent to me.


Swalchy, I figured you and I were on the same page in regards to Elbesem the God, LF and I just got into a tangent on the town as well lol
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby legalize freedom » Wed Jul 11 2018 12:04pm

The scene you speak of hasn't been polished yet, so please reserve judgment until it is. After the review, there was a bit of a different take than we had before, so the unpolished scenes may still reflect that.

I'm in the battle just before that currently, where the cores show up, so it won't be long. I certainly plan to have the chapter done for V20 in Nov/Dec.

The story as I understand it is that once the statue was destroyed the temple cores overloaded since they no longer had that outlet and have been damaged from the blowback, thus the random sparking. I believe they are like the generators. This was flavoured more as an attack before, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
I don't think the timing of the Bulzome Sect's arrival there is on purpose. In other words, they were heading to the temple after taking down the statue (or maybe separate groups at the same time) anyway and didn't necessarily plan on the temple being damaged in the process. I think they are only interested in getting their hands on the staff.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby knight0fdragon » Wed Jul 11 2018 3:08pm

I am going need to find time to sit down and replay these again. It certainly seems like a coordinated effort, because we have Basanda taking out the statue, while Fiale is getting the staff. I could have sworn there was a resource that mapped out the timeline of the 3 scenarios, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.
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Re: Guardian Pillar?

Postby legalize freedom » Thu Jul 12 2018 12:36pm

I'm not sure that sync timeline has this kind of info anyway. I'll report back if I see/have any big revelation.
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