Welcome to the Shining Force Central Forums!
SFC Forums Index Shining Forums Shining Force III SFIII Translation Project
Register for your free forum account now or Login to remove this advert.

David's Classes Final Decision

Poll

A place for those working on the Shining Force III Translation Patch.

What should David's classes be? Pick up to two. See first post for details.

Poll ended at Thu Oct 10 2019 12:34pm

Guardian > Commander > General
4
12%
Warden > Commander > General
1
3%
Elven Ranger > Commander > General
9
27%
Elven Ranger > Striker > Commando
11
33%
Guardian > Commander > Sentinel
5
15%
Elven Ranger > Commander > Sentinel
3
9%
 
Total votes : 33

David's Classes Final Decision

Postby legalize freedom » Wed Jun 12 2019 12:34pm

What change is being made:
Waltz's (and Justin's unseen) first class is being changed to Ranger
David previously used Ranger in the translation, so at a minimum his first class needed to change. Along with the effort of determining what that class would be, a full review and discussion has taken place about all of his classes. This started from a proposed switch of his second and third class names to provide a more natural progression, but the discussion revealed the needed change to his first class.

Evidence supporting the change:
Centaur archers in the series have exclusively used the Ranger > Bow Knight classes
May in SF2 as well as Stock and Graham in SFCD. Lyle from SF1 also would fall into this category, but his official classes were Assault Knight and Strike Knight, presumably before this class was fully established.

In the original English Sc1 release, Ranger is listed as the line that would be Justin's starting class. He joins promoted so the player never sees this class name, but the game files reveal it.
In addition, Justin and Waltz share class name lines in Sc2 and Sc3.


Options Described with Pros and Cons:


Guardian / Warden / Elven Ranger
Commander
General



Strengths of General line:
-Commander is the literal translation of his second class in the original Japanese release which he shares with all the other generals in Sc3.
-Recognizes his leadership role within the Medion army, which happens quickly as he becomes a battalion leader for the final battle.
-As with all the other general characters, he has a unique assortment of weapon skills. Notice how there is roughly a pattern of a weapon type being assigned to two of them. I'm certain if Rogan would have been finished as a playable character, he would have continued this pattern. (Halberd, Sword and Blade or Axe as a guess)

Edmund
Knife
Mace
Rapier

Produn
Tomahawk
Spear
Sword

Spiriel
Halberd
Mace
Rapier

David
Knife
Spear
Tomahawk


Weaknesses of General line:
-Focuses on Leadership while original classes focus on combat abilities
-There is nothing explicit in game that dictates he is officially promoted within the Imperial army beyond being an leading member of the Medion army, but it is reasonable that he would be



Elven Ranger
Striker
Commando



Strengths of Commando line:
-Is closest to literal translations
-Focuses on combat abilities


Weaknesses of Commando line:
-Doesn't reflect his leadership role in Stump or in the Medion army
-Striker is a bit generic
-Commando is a little too modern military



Guardian / Elven Ranger
Commander
Sentinel



Strengths of Sentinel line:
-Infers a unique combination of leadership and combat ability
-Has a spiritual connotation that suits David well (first and final classes when paired with Guardian)
-Describes his role at each stage of the game well

He starts as someone who protects others (Stump then Gracia when he has a higher calling)
Transitioning into his unique leadership role in the Medion army, becoming a Commander well before Gracia leaves and leading up to the Juggernaut battle.
Sentinel has a bit of "holy" to it while describing him as standing tall and taking on all comers to defeat Bulzome.


Weaknesses of Sentinel line:
-Can be perceived as describing a tank type character (David has good defense, but only after promotion and even then not exactly a tank)
-Commander doesn't exactly have the same feel as the other two classes, but it is his given second class and works well when considering his role in the story
-Guardian and especially Sentinel imply a stationary unit while David is fleet of foot


Strengths of Elven Ranger:
-Keeps generally the same original starting class. Just adding a prefix to differentiate from the established Ranger class
-Is a good descriptor of what he is and what his skill set is
-Works in General, Commando and Sentinel lines

Weaknesses of Elven Ranger:
-Piggybacks off of the established Ranger class
-Is similar to the enemy Hunter Elf, but with the enemy identifier being Elf and David's being Ranger (not race)


Strengths of Warden:
-Recognizes his leadership role in Stump village without naming him chieftain
-Describes both leadership and combat abilities (if also considered an enforcer)
-Works well with his role of guardian/defender of both Stump and the forest

Weaknesses of Warden:
-From a strict reality standpoint, is more of a guardian and doesn't infer combat ability
-Some initial reactions may be that of a prison warden or other law enforcement position
-Weaker version of Guardian?
legalize freedom

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sat Apr 29 2006 4:09am
Location: Texas, USA

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby Nuburan » Sat Jun 15 2019 3:53pm

Scout > Skirmisher > Commando
Nuburan

User avatar
Shining Member
Shining Member
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Dec 22 2011 8:55pm

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby Maeths » Sun Jun 16 2019 10:55am

I like Sentinel as last class, because it sounds kinda epic. Also had to pick the option with Commando, just for the implication that he intends to go against Bulzome with no underwear (which is thicc ofc).
Maeths

User avatar
Member
Member
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 07 2015 11:55pm

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby legalize freedom » Wed Jun 19 2019 6:51pm

Maeths wrote:I like Sentinel as last class, because it sounds kinda epic. Also had to pick the option with Commando, just for the implication that he intends to go against Bulzome with no underwear (which is thicc ofc).


The major issue with that option is that you spend most of Sc2, including the tank battle, as Striker.
legalize freedom

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sat Apr 29 2006 4:09am
Location: Texas, USA

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby nicbongo » Sun Aug 25 2019 4:21pm

@legalize freedom

In the old thread, you make an interesting point about warden being a lesser form of guardian. I was thinking LotR, with the Warden's of Lorien, being elves and all etc.

For the options above (and your ruling out of ranger glass for the ranged centaurs), I'm still not keen! Something like:

Warden -> Guardian -> Waywatcher / Glade Lord

I looked to the warhammer fantasy universe for inspiration. Something like the above keeps the wood elves/protector theme.

Sentinel I think gives a sense of magic user which isn't applicable for David.

Maybe I'm just over thinking all this =/

Anyway, cheers!
nicbongo

User avatar
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 21 2017 9:22pm

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby legalize freedom » Mon Aug 26 2019 12:11pm

nicbongo wrote:@legalize freedom

In the old thread, you make an interesting point about warden being a lesser form of guardian. I was thinking LotR, with the Warden's of Lorien, being elves and all etc.

For the options above (and your ruling out of ranger glass for the ranged centaurs), I'm still not keen! Something like:

Warden -> Guardian -> Waywatcher / Glade Lord

I looked to the warhammer fantasy universe for inspiration. Something like the above keeps the wood elves/protector theme.

Sentinel I think gives a sense of magic user which isn't applicable for David.

Maybe I'm just over thinking all this =/

Anyway, cheers!


Yes, we are all over-thinking this... on purpose.

Good suggestions!
Waywatcher and Glade Lord don't leap out as perfect though and Waywatcher may sound a bit too fancy for SF3.

Thanks for engaging!
legalize freedom

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sat Apr 29 2006 4:09am
Location: Texas, USA

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby Swalchy » Wed Sep 25 2019 7:52pm

Overthinking is good. Means we can get stuff right for the Translation Project :)
The Way To Yahuweh
Dead Sea Scroll Images
Latest Update Post


Salibu: 20/08/10 wrote:You have all been Swalched.


Damn I've been here a long f*cking time...
The Way To Yahuweh
Dead Sea Scroll Images
Latest Update Post


Salibu: 20/08/10 wrote:You have all been Swalched.


Damn I've been here a long f*cking time...
Swalchy

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 10430
Joined: Thu Sep 16 2004 5:16pm

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby legalize freedom » Thu Sep 26 2019 11:45am

These polls are almost over!

Only two weeks remaining to vote if you haven't already.

Thank you!
legalize freedom

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sat Apr 29 2006 4:09am
Location: Texas, USA

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby Swalchy » Wed Oct 30 2019 4:04pm

*bump bump*
The Way To Yahuweh
Dead Sea Scroll Images
Latest Update Post


Salibu: 20/08/10 wrote:You have all been Swalched.


Damn I've been here a long f*cking time...
The Way To Yahuweh
Dead Sea Scroll Images
Latest Update Post


Salibu: 20/08/10 wrote:You have all been Swalched.


Damn I've been here a long f*cking time...
Swalchy

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 10430
Joined: Thu Sep 16 2004 5:16pm

Re: David's Classes Final Decision

Postby legalize freedom » Thu Oct 31 2019 11:51am

Thanks to everyone who voted in this poll!

It was fairly close between the General and Commando lines and I think that follows the evidence as General was a strong candidate. Again the 'as little change as possible' option is the most popular which is understandable.

It's never easy when a change is needed, especially regarding class names. I appreciate everyone's suggestions and comments (beforehand) and understanding (afterwards).

These results will be incorporated in V21. The preview will be released this week!
legalize freedom

User avatar
Shining Legend
Shining Legend
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sat Apr 29 2006 4:09am
Location: Texas, USA


Return to SFIII Translation Project

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 0 guests