Max?

PostPosted: Wed May 24 2006 8:06pm
by MaxofGaurdiana
:confused: Ok I rented this game and was about to stop playing it when Max Mentioned Cain ... I have three questions. This Is the Max From Shining Force Right? How did Max And Cain get from where they are in Shining Force Neo to Shining Force? When was it astablished that Cain and Max were brothers? I'm so confused here. Hopefully somebody can help me out I'm almost never near a computer so please respond quickly. :...:

Max?

PostPosted: Wed May 24 2006 8:19pm
by Aldur
It has nothing to do with the original games. The end.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12 2006 2:08pm
by Guthwulf
Well, of course they are the same Max, Cane and Adam.
Max defeated DD and after was cryogenized with Cane, in the same temple you find Adam in shining force. The robot was the guardian on this temple; he waited long, for 10000 years, when DD returned and the hero brothers were awaikened too.
It is all explained in "shining force - the resurrection of the dark dragon" for game boy advanced. It isn't so well explained in the original game but you can remember that Max had forgotten his past in the begining of the game. And in the end of the game the force thinks that Max is dead but appears alive again with Adam, perhaps 10000 years later.
The three sages of SFneo say that the chosen one would be prepared to figth DD when required.
Also say that Maria is very similar to the god that appears in SF in the end of part one behind the castle of Alterone.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12 2006 5:29pm
by VoxPVoxD
In many ways SF Neo is the spiritual sequel to - as well as better than - SF1

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12 2006 5:39pm
by Aldur
Guthwulf @ Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:08 pm) wrote: Well, of course they are the same Max, Cane and Adam.
Max defeated DD and after was cryogenized with Cane, in the same temple you find Adam in shining force. The robot was the guardian on this temple; he waited long, for 10000 years, when DD returned and the hero brothers were awaikened too.
It is all explained in "shining force - the resurrection of the dark dragon" for game boy advanced. It isn't so well explained in the original game but you can remember that Max had forgotten his past in the begining of the game. And in the end of the game the force thinks that Max is dead but appears alive again with Adam, perhaps 10000 years later.
The three sages of SFneo say that the chosen one would be prepared to figth DD when required.
Also say that Maria is very similar to the god that appears in SF in the end of part one behind the castle of Alterone.

You make me giggle.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27 2006 4:27pm
by Guthwulf
Well, I finished the game (not the tomb of the king) and now I'm more sure than before about what I said, my friend Aldur.

There were two things that didn't suit for me, before finishing the game. One is that no one even mentioned Dark Dragon. Finaly Rebeca does before the last battle. But Vandolf doesn't manage to call it because Max stops him and doesn't appear in the game. We are talking about the same shining universe.
The second was that Cane was dead by Vandolf and this could not be posible because he appears in SF. Well, he didn't die; he appears in the very last secuence. He still has some things to do before dieing in Dragonia.

Talking about dragons; Dryu is the same type of dragon than Bleu, isn't it. Both are descendants of the Sacred Dragon that defeated the Dark Dragon. I think that Bleu is surely descendant of Dryu.

So, for me, Max, Cane and Adam are the same ones. Dark Dragon is the same one. Adam has the answers in SF the resurrections of the DD. Also in SF but less, I think. I don't remenber what he sais in the original game.

Good bye!!

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29 2006 2:19pm
by Xiados
Guthwulf @ Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:27 am) wrote: Well, I finished the game (not the tomb of the king) and now I'm more sure than before about what I said, my friend Aldur.

There were two things that didn't suit for me, before finishing the game. One is that no one even mentioned Dark Dragon. Finaly Rebeca does before the last battle. But Vandolf doesn't manage to call it because Max stops him and doesn't appear in the game. We are talking about the same shining universe.
The second was that Cane was dead by Vandolf and this could not be posible because he appears in SF. Well, he didn't die; he appears in the very last secuence. He still has some things to do before dieing in Dragonia.

Talking about dragons; Dryu is the same type of dragon than Bleu, isn't it. Both are descendants of the Sacred Dragon that defeated the Dark Dragon. I think that Bleu is surely descendant of Dryu.

So, for me, Max, Cane and Adam are the same ones. Dark Dragon is the same one. Adam has the answers in SF the resurrections of the DD. Also in SF but less, I think. I don't remenber what he sais in the original game.

Good bye!!

dumbass. Don't fall into Sega's lies.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08 2006 7:28pm
by Guthwulf
What lies??

This is only a fiction story/game!!!!

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08 2006 7:34pm
by Rick
they're just saying that people are using the Max name in the games to actually realate it to the SF universe...

in the original there isnt any mention of the memory loss thing is there?

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08 2006 8:04pm
by Guthwulf
Yes, there is. It is also in the original game.

And WHO is using the nameS? And the title? It is sega because it's their game.

And it is the same universe! Didn't you see the centaurs??? But is it a coincidence that 4 characters including DD have the same name? I don't think so. This didn't happen since SFII and SFFC.
And, as i said, they suit in the storyline of SF. They could have had other name and it would be another story but they don't.

Well, this is my opinion. Bye!!

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11 2006 9:33pm
by Noma
Guthwulf @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:04 pm) wrote: Yes, there is. It is also in the original game.

I'm about to cry.

Resurrection of Dark Dragon and Legacy of Great Intention are not the same game. They may have the same overall plot and characters (for the most part), but LoGI is the first, so that's what everyone goes by.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18 2006 2:37am
by Shining Bowie
The priest SO mentions Max's memory loss at the beginning of LOGI. Right there in Gaurdia.

And his washing-up-on-a-beach-edness.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19 2006 8:22am
by Eric
maybe those eyebrows froze off eh?

anyways, you know its not the same theme because Chikita is labeled kyantol when really it looks like a reject from some kids cartoon.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14 2007 2:02am
by drewbster
Neo just felt like a remake to me.

Shining Bowie @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:37 am) wrote: The priest SO mentions Max's memory loss at the beginning of LOGI. Right there in Gaurdia.

And his washing-up-on-a-beach-edness.

I don't remember ever seeing that. Is this the priest in the Guardiana chapel, or the old man over by the Gate?

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29 2007 8:30pm
by Balbaroy
I just played through the entire first chapter and I talked with the priest at every junction allowed, and he never once mentioned anything about memory loss or beaches.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27 2007 7:29am
by zagato05
I'm pretty sure that the priest says it if you talk to him before you see the king. So about 15 secs into the game, right after Varios leaves.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29 2008 6:01pm
by Alones
The memory loss thing is ROTDD exclusive.

[rotdd]
Priest:
Ah, the good Max!
I had an odd dream last night.
Can you guess what it was?
~ If NO ~
Priest:
Well, I suppose...
Even the great Lord Max can't read people's minds!
I had a dream about the first time I met you.
Lowe and apprentice here, found you lying on the beach.
That was a year ago now...
You'd lost your memory.
I think it was fate that you came here..

[logi]
Priest:
Hello, Max! I've been having the worst nightmares. Have you had any?
~ If NO ~
Priest:
Well, then, let me tell you about mine. I saw our land in ruins.
Evil creatures roamed our halls! It seemed so real!

Thank SFC game scripts.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29 2008 11:43pm
by Balbaroy
Almost a year after the fact, lol. Way to revive the dead.

Still RotDD and LOGI are two different games, and LOGI is the original so that is the one we go by. This was already said.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30 2008 2:40am
by Alones
*Read 27 jan, but it was 27 feb.. :damnit: *

Btw, Why do not count Force RotDD as canon? I think it only adds info to the original plot...

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13 2008 8:01am
by drewbster
Alones @ Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:01 pm) wrote: The memory loss thing is ROTDD exclusive.

[logi]
Priest:
Hello, Max! I've been having the worst nightmares. Have you had any?
~ If NO ~
Priest:
Well, then, let me tell you about mine. I saw our land in ruins.
Evil creatures roamed our halls! It seemed so real!

Thank you for clearing that up. I've played LoGI countless times, but never once saw anything other than "evil creatures roamed our halls."

I think you raise a good question too. I'm not familiar with RotDD, but I thought SF fans accepted that Max and Cain were brothers.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29 2008 1:50am
by Martin III
Bleh, I shouldn't even be lurking on this board, seeing as how I've never played SF Neo.

However, it happens that I can partially answer your question, drewbster, and seeing as how no one else has stepped up to the plate... (glares around the room) Yes, it is universally or near universally accepted that Max and Kane are brothers. It's mentioned in the Japanese versions of both The Legacy of Great Intention and The Final Conflict, and the SFC translation of Final Conflict maintains that. The canon problems with RotDD lie elsewhere. I haven't played the game myself, but I hear that the origin of Dark Dragon is different, for one thing.

I think RotDD isn't even intended as canon. Maybe my memory deceives me, but I recall hearing that Sega has stated that RotDD and Shining Soul I are intended as alternate universe.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13 2008 7:00pm
by Xaevyan
Most people accept that Max and Kane are brothers. Even though the English version of LoGI doesn't mention it. I know it's mentioned in SFFC.

I played Neo, but it didn't hold my attention. I don't really know it's story line, but I have played SHFI and RotDD. The storyline problems in RotDD and how they line up with LoGI and the rest of the Shining Force Universe (as far as I can tell) are pretty messed up. Lots of things, I noticed, don't exactly line up. Like how Dark Dragon supposively came about. Especially when you consider what the Storytellers in Tristan tell you about Darksol, Dark Dragon and Zeon. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

WARNING: SPOILER!


While RotDD may "add info to the original plot" it also messes up the original facts. So, I don't really look at RotDD as a relation to the LoGI universe.

I've played LoGI so many times I can tell you whats in almost all the chests and almost quote the characters and never get tired of it. I've played RotDD once and could hardly force myself through it a second time to complete the Cards.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13 2008 7:34pm
by Dominus_Draconis
WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17 2008 4:34am
by El Cabong!
QUOTE (Dominus_Draconis @ Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:34 pm)
WARNING: SPOILER!

As Martin said, I shouldn't be here either as I have never played Neo. But DD and Lucifer are one in the same. I believe they renamed Lucifer, as DD, for English release.

*Edit*
Draconis- I wasn't entirely sure if thats what you meant. You're wording kinda threw me off a touch..

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25 2008 6:52pm
by ehow22
Kane/Cain/Cane, whatever he's being called now dies in both Shining Force Neo and SF1, so they cant possibly be the same. I thought Vandolf made an appearance at the last sequence.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23 2009 9:22pm
by sulfuroxp
neo after SFI ???
or before

is after, how can you explain the Max Family in NEO

SFI is after NEO

part of NEO is in other continent, out of Rune... where Shining the Holy Ark - Wisdom - SFIII

is my theory...

so, the first Shining Saturn is not after SFII, but SFIII yes


and both SFI is the same :thumbsup:

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23 2009 10:54pm
by MXC
I don't think this game falls in the same "world".

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28 2010 11:27pm
by sulfuroxp
wow, how i can post this >___>

but Max and Kane are brothers, Kane die in SF1, both dragons are from the same race, Lucifer is DD, and i don't know what is a canon xD

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02 2010 8:24am
by Dr. Casey
yeah

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10 2010 8:36pm
by Kaihaku
sulfuroxp @ Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:27 pm) wrote: wow, how i can post this >___>

but Max and Kane are brothers, Kane die in SF1, both dragons are from the same race, Lucifer is DD, and i don't know what is a canon xD

Alternate universe. In my opinion, Neo is a drastic re-envisioning of the classic series much like Megaman Battle Network is a re-envisioning of Megaman. There are a lot of similarities but they are not the same.

Classic Max and Neo Max have some things in common but just look at them, they not the same character. Caine and Kane don't bear much resemblance to one another either.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11 2010 11:03pm
by Martin III
Funny that this topic should be revived just as I find myself in need of some clarification about Neo Max. I was editing the Shining Wiki when I came upon the article for Max, which essentially implies that LoGI Max, RotDD Max, and Neo Max are all one and the same. Obviously this needs fixing, but before I do that I want to know exactly how it should be fixed.

We've well-established here that Neo is not set in the same world as Legacy of Great Intention. But that still leaves the question: What is the exact nature of the Neo world? More specifically, is Neo Max an alternate version of the LoGI Max, or a different person entirely? And if he is an alternate version, is he the same as RotDD Max, i.e. are Neo and Resurrection of the Dark Dragon set in the same universe?

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17 2010 3:46pm
by Kaihaku
Personally, I believe that Neo should be considered alternative universe. I think of it as a tribute to the original series rather than an addition to it.

Resurrection of the Dark Dragon is more difficult... I believe that it is the same Max as in the original Shining Force but there are some significant differences between the two versions, some due to changes during localization and some due to changes in the overall plot. Plenty of Shining experts around here who are far more aware of those differences than I am. Anyway, I'd say that the Resurrection of the Dark Dragon Max is a revision of the original Japanese Max. He bears more similarities to the original Japanese Max but brings a few new qualities to the table.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12 2011 10:52am
by Lord Oddeye sama
good5689 wrote:Hi All,

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They clearly need more bom and bounce... Wait, no they don't. Go away adbot.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12 2011 12:38pm
by Stordarth
Adbot? What adbot? I don't see an adbot.

:shifty:

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12 2011 1:15pm
by Lord Oddeye sama
And then I was the adbot. My imagination is running wild!... or is it? >_>

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14 2012 10:18pm
by Guthwulf
The wikipedia says that the information about the memory loss was left out in the english translation.

"The English translation of Shining Force has perhaps the most confusing errors and omissions of any translated game in the Shining series save the Working Designs translation of Shining Wisdom. Most notably, the backstory of Max, the protagonist of the game, is entirely left out. The original Japanese script tells that Max has amnesia and was found washed up on the beach by Lowe, who subsequently came to be his best friend. Later, it is revealed that Max is in fact the brother of Lord Kane of Runefaust. All these plot points were lost in the official translation. In the official translation Kane still expresses horror that Darksol forced him to fight Max, but without any explanation why."

Here the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shining_Force

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14 2012 10:31pm
by Omega Entity
And necro'd again. Yep, that all was clarified with the translation someone did here. See here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14517

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15 2012 6:13pm
by Rune
Also, it's clear Max and Cain are brothers for the simple reason that in a video game from this era if anyone has even the slightest chance of being your father, mother, sister, or brother then they are.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26 2012 3:44pm
by Ansa
Guthwulf wrote:The wikipedia says that the information about the memory loss was left out in the english translation.

"The English translation of Shining Force has perhaps the most confusing errors and omissions of any translated game in the Shining series save the Working Designs translation of Shining Wisdom. Most notably, the backstory of Max, the protagonist of the game, is entirely left out. The original Japanese script tells that Max has amnesia and was found washed up on the beach by Lowe, who subsequently came to be his best friend. Later, it is revealed that Max is in fact the brother of Lord Kane of Runefaust. All these plot points were lost in the official translation. In the official translation Kane still expresses horror that Darksol forced him to fight Max, but without any explanation why."

Here the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shining_Force

Which is perfectly fine, still doesn't mean Neo has any actual relation to the original SF games, mainly considering Kain dies.

If you want to think anything of Neo then its an alternate universe/retelling of the original story with similar characters.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16 2013 7:00pm
by Chaosgirl998
I found out about shining force Neo it's not a shining force game it's a hack and slash game with the shining force in the title I mean come on it doesn't ever like a shining force game

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16 2013 7:03pm
by Omega Entity
Yes. We are all well aware of this. Unfortunately we have no control over the naming conventions or direction the games have taken, gameplay-wise, so at this point it's pretty much a case of 'suck it up, buttercup'.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17 2013 5:58am
by DomingoRules!
The names are an homage to make old-school fans feel nostalgic, and nothing more. It would be just like if Square made a new entry into the Forbidden Series, and gave the characters all names from FS7.

PS: Looking down the list of posts, it's almost humorous how many times this topic has been necroed.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed May 28 2014 4:36am
by rbahamut
Yes it is Max and he is awesome again!

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01 2014 12:25am
by Corsair
DomingoRules! wrote:PS: Looking down the list of posts, it's almost humorous how many times this topic has been necroed.


Poetic, man.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02 2015 7:31am
by Lucifer
El Cabong! wrote:But DD and Lucifer are one in the same. I believe they renamed Lucifer, as DD, for English release.

Lucifer is NOT Dark Dragon! The legend told by the storytellers of Tristin was intentionally mistranslated from Lucifer to Dark Dragon so as to prevent religious controversy. The Devil King Lucifer himself has never appeared in any Shining game, and Dark Dragon was nothing more than a destructive beast that the Devil King Darksol planned to utilize to further his malicious schemes.

Martin III wrote:And if he is an alternate version, is he the same as RotDD Max, i.e. are Neo and Resurrection of the Dark Dragon set in the same universe?

I doubt it: Although I've never played SFN, there have been multiple posts about [Cain/Kane/Cane]'s death. If his past self dies, then he couldn't terrorize Rune because his present self never existed. The events of RotDD as they were never would have come to pass without Cain/Kane/Cane.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 05 2015 1:25am
by sulfuroxp
Lucifer appeared in SF Cross

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 05 2015 3:47am
by Lucifer
Really? I haven't played most of the newer "Non-Camelot" games, but I had read multiple posts about how Sega stated that Lucifer was never featured in any Shining game. Those posts must have been outdated, and I apologize for my mistake in my previous post. Either way, my main point remains the same: that Lucifer and Dark Dragon are not, and never have been the same individual.

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07 2015 4:59am
by DomingoRules!
sulfuroxp wrote:Lucifer appeared in SF Cross

If Camelot wasn't involved though, then can we really count that? :p

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28 2015 6:07pm
by chevkraken
Lucifer wrote:
Martin III wrote:And if he is an alternate version, is he the same as RotDD Max, i.e. are Neo and Resurrection of the Dark Dragon set in the same universe?

I doubt it: Although I've never played SFN, there have been multiple posts about [Cain/Kane/Cane]'s death. If his past self dies, then he couldn't terrorize Rune because his present self never existed. The events of RotDD as they were never would have come to pass without Cain/Kane/Cane.

Shining Soul, Soul 2 and Tony Shining are set in the same world as ROTDD, but Shining force Neo, Exa and Feather are said to be in another universe

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15 2016 1:09am
by MaxofGaurdiana
...Wow...ok. I had no idea this thread would still be going... it's also funny because it's only the second post I ever made, and caused a lot of debate. Ten years old almost. Does it get a birthday?

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21 2016 3:14am
by Caedmonball19
It is also humorous that you are classified as a Newbie still all these years later. Welcome back to the forum :)

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 2018 5:05pm
by stefanos2k10
guess im necroing this thread also was this game actually any good? and did we determine if it was indeed a "re imagining" of the first game or anything?

Re: Max?

PostPosted: Wed May 09 2018 8:59pm
by Dr. Doom
Just consider SF:ROTDD as an reimagining of SF:LOGI. Then, consider all shining force games made after to be completely different, set in a different universe that just uses nostalgia to try and sell it because without it they wouldnt sell at all.

The original "camelot" shining force is dead (for now). SEGA has no intention of bringing it back or continuing it.