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To buy or not to buy?

Discuss Sega's Shining 'Force' RPG for the S*ny Playstation 2.

To buy or not to buy?

yes
56
64%
no
32
36%
 
Total votes : 88

Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Demonic Weasel » Wed Aug 31 2005 12:43am

Good point, however from my point of veiw it's like this. I am very annoyed that Sega has just screwed SF over like this, but I would take the same approach as you depending on the quality of the game. Since Neo doesn't look like it has much quality either, I therefore probably won't get it. I might rent it just to see if it actually is any good but...
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Kakizaki » Wed Aug 31 2005 1:47am

With Neverland lending a hand in Neo's development, I think it will be worth a peek. Lufia (Estopolis) I & II, Record of Lodoss, and Chaos Seed is a pretty decent track record for a developer.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Demonic Weasel » Wed Aug 31 2005 2:59am

I'm just saying that from what I've seen so far I'm not impressed.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Geoffrey Duke » Tue Sep 20 2005 6:13pm

Kakizaki @ Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:26 am) wrote: Although I am disappointed Neo will not be a 'classic' Shining title, I still will be picking it up due to the fact I thoroughly enjoyed Record of Lodoss on Dreamcast. I can understand being upset, but it almost seems the equivalent of denying yourself Shining Force because it strayed from the original dungeon crawl genre of the first Shining title. I actually enjoy dungeon crawlers more, and was very happy with StHA, but because the next title in the series, SF III, was a strat rpg, I wasn't about to boycott. In the longrun you are only hurting SEGA in general. I think I would slit my own throat had I not picked up Azel Panzer Dragoon because it wasn't a rail shooter. :confused:

You just don't get it, do you? Sega can make all the Action/RPGs it wants but Sega has no real right to call them Shining Force. Where's the force in Shining Force Neo? How can you play as a force of one? Do tell. Of course, Sega has every right to do whatever the hell it wants with its own intellectual properties, but it's never a wise move to redefine a name such as this. It would be akin to Square-Enix making an Action/RPG and calling it The Forbidden Series Tactics.

Your PD Saga anology is flawed as well for the simple reason that Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG was labelled differently from the rail shooters. The people at Sega didn't call PD Orta... Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG 2, now did they? Why you ask? Because that would be misleading. A misnomer if you will.

You want to see more Action/RPGs from Sega instead of traditional Force-style games? Then buy Shining Force Neo.

It's nice to know that you Diablo-loving fools with your short attention spans killed Shining Force. Thanks. I hope you enjoy all that mindless button mashing in your watered down Action/RPGs. I'm sure Sega will throw in some voice acting too to spare you the painful process of reading too much. Have fun.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Bower captain of death !!! » Tue Sep 20 2005 7:38pm

it's by the same guys who made record of lodoss war int it, well i thought that game was bloody awesome! so im definately going to be buying Neo!
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Tarethen » Tue Sep 20 2005 9:34pm

Geoffrey Duke @ Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:13 pm) wrote:

You want to see more Action/RPGs from Sega instead of traditional Force-style games? Then buy Shining Force Neo.

It's nice to know that you Diablo-loving fools with your short attention spans killed Shining Force. Thanks. I hope you enjoy all that mindless button mashing in your watered down Action/RPGs. I'm sure Sega will throw in some voice acting too to spare you the painful process of reading too much. Have fun.

You know, attitudes like that are a real way to just get under people's skins. Just because someone is buying an action RPG, doesn't mean they're some mindless moron. So the name is Shining Force Neo, so what? We already know -you're- not going to buy it, as you've been chiming in to say every single chance you've gotten. But, we don't need to keep hearing about your disgust and dislike for what Sega has done each and every thread. You're beating a dead horse.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Geoffrey Duke » Tue Sep 20 2005 9:50pm

This horse isn't quite dead yet. Once it flops in the U.S. then I'll let the issue go. The bottom line is: if you buy this game, you hammer a nail into the coffin of traditional Force-style games. End of discussion.

Hack and slash games can be fun, but that shouldn't be the full extent of their gameplay. Unfortunately, that's the direction modern-day Action/RPGs have gone in because "gamers" just don't have the patience for anything else. Too bad.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Tarethen » Tue Sep 20 2005 10:09pm

Geoffrey Duke @ Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:50 pm) wrote: This horse isn't quite dead yet. Once it flops in the U.S. then I'll let the issue go. The bottom line is: if you buy this game, you hammer a nail into the coffin of traditional Force-style games. End of discussion.

Hack and slash games can be fun, but that shouldn't be the full extent of their gameplay. Unfortunately, that's the direction modern-day Action/RPGs have gone in because "gamers" just don't have the patience for anything else. Too bad.

I'm buying the game because I am generally interested in it. Because, I know, that if I ever wanted to play a Force style game, I can sit right down at my computer, or go and turn my TV and Saturn on and play one. The games haven't lost their novelty and general aura around them to the point where I can't live without a new Force style game.

Also, I don't consider buying the game as nailing the final nail into the coffin of the Shining series. The game met with rather nice response when it came to reviews and general impressions. In my opinion, that is something good. People are enjoying the game. Awesome. I want to enjoy the game, too. Not keep sitting here wishing about how the game should have been or could have been when I can sit and enjoy what the game is.

You don't see a whole lot of Suikoden fans crying and moaning and groaning because they're adding a tactical RPG into the Suikoden series. A lot of fans are welcoming it with open arms as something new. I think Shining fans should - at least- give the game a try by getting it from Gamefly or Blockbuster instead of just saying "No, I'm not going to play that because Sega didn't give me what I wanted. I hate Sega." Because, you never know, they might actually -like it-.

I've heard from several places that the new Shining game has a good story, too. That's another reason why I want to play it. I want to see what kind of story Sega came up with to augment the new gameplay. In a nutshell, I'm interested in seeing how Sega handled this new game. If we get a Shining Force Neo II, so be it. It won't be the end of my world, and I highly doubt it'll be the end of Sega or the end of a whole lot of other people's world. If someone needs to go and commit suicide because Shining Force IV hasn't come out yet, then there's some sort of problem.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Chaos Wizard » Fri Oct 14 2005 8:59am

Although I don't like the use of the word Force in the title of a non-strategic RPG. I still fully intend on buying as it still looks like a cool game. As a lot of you know I've been playing Shining Games since the SitD came out. I've played them all, and they are all good games. I think this one will be good too. It looks like a lot of fun. Sega even said originally they were going to make it a strat-rpg but thought the strat system didn't cross into 3d very well. I guess that's there deal as I don't care if a game is 3d or 2d. Neo isn't a strat-rpg granted, but who's to say Sega will never put out another Shining Strat RPG? In any case I'm picking it up, and will post my honest opinion on the game, good or bad. I'll write about the pros and the cons. Personally I'm looking forward to this the newest consule addition to the Shining Series.

I myself am not a button mashing mindless gamer that lacks patience. Neither are several of my gaming friends, also fans of the Shining Games, who are also exited to play SFNeo.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby LunarPark » Sun Oct 16 2005 10:31pm

I sold a lot of my shining stock about a year or two ago when I was in the midst of a crippling and life-altering depression. So right now I am trying to reacquire what I have lost; hence, I will not be buying the new Shining Force games, with the exception of the remake of Shining Force I for the GBA. Also, I cannot get past the new game's pastel color scheme and bland character designs, or the fact that it is neither turn-based nor tactical.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Geoffrey Duke » Wed Oct 19 2005 3:11am

Chaos Wizard @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:59 am) wrote: Sega even said originally they were going to make it a strat-rpg but thought the strat system didn't cross into 3d very well.

What a lame excuse. Take one look at the new Fire Emblem game for the GameCube, and then tell us that these games don't cross over to 3D very well. Even Riglord Saga for the Saturn demonstrated how much potential these games have when taken into the 3D realm. Give it a graphical upgrade and you have yourself a winner.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Parn » Wed Oct 19 2005 4:00am

Curious... anyone have any sales figures for Shining Force Neo in Japan? It's going to flop in the US, and I'm just curious as to how it did in Japan. I basically am looking to laugh some more.

Meanwhile, Nintendo has released Fire Emblem, a strategy/RPG for GameCube, and is currently airing COMMERCIALS for it on television. It should be interesting to see if it sells well.

Waiting for my copy to arrive in the mail. Going to pass Shining Force Neo, I'm afraid. I'll play Ys: Oath in Felghana for my action/RPG fix (which by the way, Ys: Oath in Felghana is completely awesome with a soundtrack that DESTROYS Shining Force Neo's uninspired garbage).
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Chaos Wizard » Thu Oct 20 2005 9:12am

G-Duke: I agree that is a lame excuse, and I still play tactical RPG's, like SF, Ogre Battle, Disgeia, Phatom Brave, and Tactics, which have all done really well. (I even play tabletop strategy games.) I wholely and truely hope there is a future strat-rpg for SF. I would love to play it, and I know there is a market. It might not be a huge one in comparrison to the Halo/Doom/Unreal Shooter Games, and Sports Games. Which to me are the bottom of the gaming food chain. The hack n slash games aren't the best, but it's still a possiblity it might not be horrible. I'm getting it tomorrow hopefully unless the day has been pushed back again. If anything, if it's like another game I can tell you, and give you a reference of comparrison for you to make your over all call on the game.

From what I've heard about the game though, and the screen shots that I've seen, it does look fun. It obviously won't get me going like a strat-rpg. All and all I still say it looks like a good game.

Parn: I haven't seen anything negative about Neo outside of the SFC community. Everyone that I know of that's heard of the game seems interested in at least checking it out. I doubt it will flop. But I also doubt it will outsell Fire Embelm.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Aspartate » Thu Oct 20 2005 12:35pm

I haven't seen anything positive about Neo in Chinese Shining community. Non-Shining gamers find it amusing because it's a remake of "The Record of Lodoss War" from DreamCast, not because of some Shininblahblahblah they never heard of and doesn't care about.

Its system is really nice (after all, it's RoLW). Graphic is gorgeous (Studio 4 degrees Celsius huh, I think Sega spent most of their budget on this). But its story? From the background setting it looks like there's a lot of potential. Too bad the scriptwriter wasted it and turned it into a childish play. I wonder how many people will love it so much after this game is released in a language they can understand. People also had high hopes for Shining Soul's story before it was released in English.

And now, after 6 months of its release, people who used to discuss it eagerly say, "oh, it's fun. But that's all it is. Played it, finished it, and forgot about it. Too many games were released each month. There's nothing special enough to remember or make you want to play this again."
Another great conversation I saw was:
A: I bought this so-called complete guide and there's no story translation in it! The only reason I buy a guide is for its story! I'm robbed!
B: There's hardly any story in Neo. You didn't miss a thing.

Parn-
Famitsu sales (calculated from 2004/12/27~2005/6/26):
Berwick Saga (PS2, released on 5/26) - 160,460
Fire Emblem- Path of Radiance (NGC, released on 4/20) - 150,420
Neo (PS2, released on 3/24)- 94,379

Fire Emblem wins by a mile. Berwick even more. I'm surprised that nobody mentions Berwick Saga here. Berwick Saga is a sequel of Tear Ring Saga, which was made by the producer of Fire Emblem on SNES. Japanese speaking (and Chinese speaking) Fire Emblem fans treat FE series and TRS series as sisters.
While Neo offers lovely graphics and simple hack-and-slash fun, Berwick Saga is known of its small characters, dated graphic (PSone can handle that), outrageously hard and user-unfriendly battles. And although the music of Berwick is marvelous, hardly anyone heard of the composer. (As opposed to Neo's "Hey! The music is composed by the person who did Evangelion! Buy! Buy!")
I find this quite amusing. Neo is dressed like a princess (character design, graphic, music, story all made by so-very-famous people; plus tons of advertisements) while Berwick Saga is like a Cinderella without fairy's help (everything made by Mr. Nobody). Yet Cinderella got more attention. I wonder what the biggies in Sega think when they see Berwick's success.
Berwick Saga promotional movie. Classic SRPG. The music and medieval atmosphere is fabulous. I doubt it will ever hit the shores of North America though, as Enterbrain isn't too keen on overseas market.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Tortie » Thu Oct 20 2005 5:54pm

Aspartate @ Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:35 am) wrote: Berwick Saga promotional movie. Classic SRPG. The music and medieval atmosphere is fabulous. I doubt it will ever hit the shores of North America though, as Enterbrain isn't too keen on overseas market.

Now that looks interesting. And exactly like Fire Emblem. :lol: I had a chance to listen to the soundtrack a while ago and was very impressed, even though I had no idea what Berwick Saga was. It's a shame localisation isn't very likely, it looks like something oldschool gamers would enjoy.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby lyinghart » Tue Oct 25 2005 1:46pm

buy!

though it is not a S-RPG,but it also has much fun

i have played the jan-version for 80 hours

now i begin to play the us-vision
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Minos » Sun Oct 30 2005 5:38am

I'll also say that it's a good buy.

By doing this, you're encouraging Sega to support/contract Neverland.
By doing this, you're supporting the Shining storyline.
By doing this, you're supporting the action RPG genre.


And you'll get some good, clean fun.


But if you don't like action rpgs, like Gauntlet, then don't buy it.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Thief » Sun Oct 30 2005 1:31pm

Aspartate @ Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:35 pm) wrote: Parn-
Famitsu sales (calculated from 2004/12/27~2005/6/26):
Berwick Saga (PS2, released on 5/26) - 160,460
Fire Emblem- Path of Radiance (NGC, released on 4/20) - 150,420
Neo (PS2, released on 3/24)- 94,379

Fire Emblem wins by a mile. Berwick even more. I'm surprised that nobody mentions Berwick Saga here. Berwick Saga is a sequel of Tear Ring Saga, which was made by the producer of Fire Emblem on SNES.
While Neo offers lovely graphics and simple hack-and-slash fun, Berwick Saga is known of its small characters, dated graphic (PSone can handle that), outrageously hard and user-unfriendly battles. And although the music of Berwick is marvelous, hardly anyone heard of the composer. (As opposed to Neo's "Hey! The music is composed by the person who did Evangelion! Buy! Buy!")
I find this quite amusing. Neo is dressed like a princess (character design, graphic, music, story all made by so-very-famous people; plus tons of advertisements) while Berwick Saga is like a Cinderella without fairy's help (everything made by Mr. Nobody). Yet Cinderella got more attention. I wonder what the biggies in Sega think when they see Berwick's success.
Berwick Saga promotional movie. Classic SRPG. The music and medieval atmosphere is fabulous. I doubt it will ever hit the shores of North America though, as Enterbrain isn't too keen on overseas market.

Berwick Saga outsold Fire Emblem GC? Mwuahahaha~
This post made my day. :)

Japanese speaking (and Chinese speaking) Fire Emblem fans treat FE series and TRS series as sisters.


It's too bad the English-speaking fans are mostly Nintendo fanboys who denied BWS' share of sRPG love on this side of the Pacific. <.<

Well, I'm playing both Neo and BWS at the moment. They're both pretty fun games, even if Neo's story fell short of "epic"-ness. My recommendation? Get Neo if you want a fun action RPG kind of game, otherwise look out for BWS or even that FE: Path of Radiance (if you're lucky enough to have a GC) for the Shining-like simulation RPG experience.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Casper Rogue » Sun Oct 30 2005 8:08pm

Spear God @ Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:33 pm) wrote:I'm agree with Geoffrey Duke...even if it's a good game, I don't think I'll buy it!

This may sound like flaming, but that has got to be the stupidest statement I've ever read in my life.


The simple fact that Sega continued the Shining Stories should say something about how much potential they think the series has. So what it isn't a turn-based strategy. Is the game good? That would be the point. Other RPGs have evolved into better ones and I dont see people whining about that. What is wrong with you all? Get over yourself and just pick up a copy to see if it's worth your time or not. Then complain about it if it sucks.
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Re: To buy or not to buy?

Postby Geoffrey Duke » Sun Oct 30 2005 9:18pm

Casper Rogue @ Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:08 pm) wrote: This may sound like flaming, but that has got to be the stupidest statement I've ever read in my life. 


The simple fact that Sega continued the Shining Stories should say something about how much potential they think the series has.  So what it isn't a turn-based strategy.  Is the game good?  That would be the point.  Other RPGs have evolved into better ones and I dont see people whining about that.  What is wrong with you all?  Get over yourself and just pick up a copy to see if it's worth your time or not.  Then complain about it if it sucks.

Other RPGs have evolved into better ones? So are you implying that SF Neo is the next step in this series' evolution as if hack 'n' slash RPGs are far more engrossing and rewarding than the tactical turn-based SF RPGs of old many of us grew up on?

If so, you're a blind fool.

SF Neo is a great game for what it is so I hear (from people within Sega as well). So what? We never wanted it in the first place. If SF Neo is the future of this series, then count me out. It makes me wonder why so few gamers have the patience for turn-based games anymore. Adventure games are a dying breed too because it takes half a mind to solve mild logic puzzles. In other words, many "gamers" today are suffering from a terminal case of laziness and stupidity, which also happens to be why voice acting has become the expected standard even in RPGs because it's.... such.... a struggle.... to... read... now.

I wouldn't describe dumbing games down as "evolving into better ones". SF Neo is a different and simpler breed of game, not a step up from previous Force games. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking otherwise; SF Neo is nowhere near as deep.
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