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SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *v2.2 just released!*

Now with some Jogurt action! Come out and play!

Discussion about the original classic Genesis/Mega Drive game. Posts about the GBA remake belong in the forum below.

Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby DiegoMM » Mon Nov 17 2014 2:44pm

I won the battle with a combination of domingo bolt, chaos breaker magic and lyle attacks. Gong, torasu and White ring healing wherever they could. Others attackers focusing in one enemy each time. I lost torasu and guntz. Against ramladu, i lost one character per turn because his weapon magic.
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Lobo » Mon Nov 17 2014 4:34pm

On to Colossus! :thumbsup:
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby SaCred » Mon Nov 17 2014 11:19pm

The final 2 battles are the one :)
You will see haha!
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby DiegoMM » Fri Nov 21 2014 12:37am

Ok, colossus battle was a little frustrating, because main colossus is much more powerful than all other enemies in the battle, so if I beat every enemies and lose to his thunder, I need to go all through the not so challenging battle to face the challenging boss.
Im against darksol now, already lost 2 times (first time: discover that anti magic spell dont work with demon breathe, second time: blue dragon double attacking max.) but im liking to play this battle.
Max just got a crazy level up to lvl 20: +10 def. Its nice. Guntz was a bit weak so I turned him into a cursed monster: Devil lance + evil ring.
wish me luck!
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby SaCred » Fri Nov 21 2014 1:19am

Need to use Shield a lot :) Specially when facing the 2 mages.
One has Bolt4 and the other has Desoul 2 right?
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Lobo » Fri Nov 21 2014 1:32pm

Good luck! hehe
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby DiegoMM » Tue Nov 25 2014 12:47am

I finished the game in my 7th try of the final battle. I have to say I abused save states to manage to win the 7th time, hehe. Kokichi delivered the final blow on dark dragon.
I like the final battle and it was a fun mod to play.
I really liked to use adam in this mod.

Thanks again Lobo, for the good time :D
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby SaCred » Tue Nov 25 2014 1:56am

Abusing Save States??
That's no true warrior man, re do those final battles with no abusing Save States :)
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby DiegoMM » Tue Nov 25 2014 2:38am

I know you do it all the time Sacred, I know :)
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Lobo » Tue Nov 25 2014 11:00am

hahahah
Can rubix's editor make a 'no savestate mod'? :excited:

Anyway, congratulations to you Diego! :thumbsup:
You're probably the second person in the world to finish the game in portuguese. At least that I know...

How did you like the translation?
(Or maybe we should discuss that at the other topic... :blush: )
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby SaCred » Tue Nov 25 2014 3:00pm

Hmm i didn't abuse no Save States in this mod :)
It's a tough mod and had to restart the game 3 times :)

I be honest, only mod i used a few Save States during the battles was Katgirlfeli's mod.
That was because i didn't patch the game and the enemy mages can cast Bolt2 / 3 anywhere on the map and it will hit every single one of your characters lol...
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Eliaquim » Sun Jan 04 2015 7:46am

Hi there!
My english is not very good. I'am from Brazil, and i download the brother mod and start playing.
Some itens don't have a name and like some of them are bugged to.. i mean there a lot of words on them. This is right? Or i'v made any mistake on patching the ips?

Anyway, if i get it right, the creator of the brother mod is Lobo and you are Brazilian too?
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Poteito » Sat Nov 21 2015 7:12am

Hi everyone! i came to share my actual thoughts about this mod.
I think the mod is ok, let me explain: First things first: i like the changes to the items available in the shop, i was glad to see that i could inmediatly buy a hand axe for Luke and get rid of that crappy short sword. The long swords in bustoke are very nice too, sword users (Max, Balbaroy and Amon at that point) always fell really behind in terms of damage (and in case of Balbaroy and Amon, in everything else, they were kinda crappy in the original version specially Amon) just being able to use the middle swords. Knights dont have their power spear in the shop but at least you can equip it to one of them when you look for your precious bikini (yes, im a pervert, i wanted the bikini). I didn't use the remedy, i dont even know what could i do with it and i didn't try. I like seeing Amon and Balbaroy as solid characters too, but is kinda a shame that Hans is still crap (i finished doomblade's mode before trying yours and there Hans was very good and i enjoyed him a lot).
I found the dificulty level pretty much the same until chapter 3. When i say pretty much the same read it as "god damn it blaze is over powered!". I think it's cool that elements are equally powerfull (not the typical Bolt>Freeze>Blaze) but being blaze present in the very early game makes that idea kinda dangerous, Tao gets Blaze 2 at level 4, and i use to get her to that level in the first battle of the game, so from there i had the chance to obliverate enemies doing unavoidable area damage (10-12 points). Didn't kill them in one shot unless it was a critical (due to enemies' enhanced HP), but as Tao usually is not in the front line, most of the enemies have received damage from your fighters and so you finish 'em up very easily (way easier than in the original game). Dark Mages have Blaze 2 too and they appear in Alterone, at that point half of your party can be one shot by Blaze 2 (not like the enemies, that have enhanced HP). Tao and Khris: bye bye. Lowe, Max and Gong barely survive it. Luke, Hans and Mae: bye bye. Ken and Gort (yes, Gort for some reason got 8 HP in two levels) were the only ones that could handle it well. Until the point i played 95% of the deaths were from Blaze 2. even if i tried to position my force in a manner that didn't hurt that much, at least one of the members died in a battle (due to blaze 2). So, in short, i find that kinda unbalanced.
Other thing that i didn't like was Luke being so weak, SO weak. Gort is very good, better than in the original game but Luke is a wimp. In the original game they both were rather low HP but hig defense and good attack characters. Here Gort has very good HP, very good ATK and very good DEF while Luke has poor HP, ok ATK and rather low DEF. Same happened in doomblade's mode but worst, im wondering why you nerf him so much.
So besides Blaze, as i found the game pretty much the same in therms of dificulty until chapter 3. There the enemies start to be very strong and you have to think that you do in order to end with at least half of your force alive. The Laser eye battle was very good, memorable, but as in doomblade's mode, the laser eye itself is so hard to kill (DAT defense and HP) that i literally ingored it once my force reached the other side of the bridge, going for the silver knight and his guardesmen. So here came the problem that made me leave this mode for now. I've been reading some of the topic and i know that im not the first one to get stuck in a part of the game. I'v been readinf too that you Lobo, say that this mode is challenging for those that do not grind too much. I use to grind a lot in my games, i find amusing for some reason totally destroying the enemy after some time spent getting stronger. But this time i tried to not grind and when enemies started to give me 10-15 EXP points i moved on. So by doing that i ended up stuck in Elliot's battle. i lost a lot of gold in the laser eye battle because i had to re do it like 3 times, and as i saw the poor gold earning from monsters i didn't wanted to re do battles to hoard gold (because that would mean grinding) but i feared that at any point of the game i woul die enough times to get stuck due to lack of gold for resurrections. And that's just what happened in Elliot battle, i lost one time and when i went to resurrect the fallen i had gold to revive just 1 of them. The rest was trying to pick some kills to gain gold, just to get overwhelmed by the enemy forces and eventually having no gold to resurrect anyone. So im not gona play this mod anymore for a while, is kinda frustrating.
BTW: im from Argentina and all i know of english i learned it from the school and videogames, so sorry if i miss spell.
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Lobo » Mon Nov 23 2015 4:20pm

Very nice feedback! :thumbsup:

I can't answer it al now, but I'll try to do it in time, though I'll probably have to keep editing this post.
Come back to see if there's anything new.


############

First things first: i like the changes to the items available in the shop, i was glad to see that i could inmediatly buy a hand axe for Luke and get rid of that crappy short sword. The long swords in bustoke are very nice too, sword users (Max, Balbaroy and Amon at that point) always fell really behind in terms of damage (and in case of Balbaroy and Amon, in everything else, they were kinda crappy in the original version specially Amon) just being able to use the middle swords. Knights dont have their power spear in the shop but at least you can equip it to one of them when you look for your precious bikini (yes, im a pervert, i wanted the bikini). I didn't use the remedy, i dont even know what could i do with it and i didn't try. I like seeing Amon and Balbaroy as solid characters too, but is kinda a shame that Hans is still crap (i finished doomblade's mode before trying yours and there Hans was very good and i enjoyed him a lot).


I always thought in vanilla that the weapons available at chapter 3 are very unbalanced. Giving Power Spears to the knights while sword users sticking to Middle Swords? Balbaroy and Amon seemed terrible and even Max had a hard time (maybe an all-time low) by that point of the game. Think it suits better as it is.

I have to agree Hans gets pretty bad early in the game. That's because I made him late growing in almost every stat. If you stick to him, he will eventually get better and top Diane. He'll likely become more balanced than Lyle too, with less attack but better defense. But again, maybe I made him so bad in the beggining that it might not worth the prize. I'll check on that for future versions.
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Poteito » Mon Nov 23 2015 5:10pm

Definetly suits better what you have done, i was really happy when i went to the head quarters to see Amon and Balbaroy's stats and i saw those precious long swords in their hands.
And yea, poor Hans, he is usefull in the first battle but from there his damage is just punny until very late in the game where it becomes just okay, and we all know that the only stat that really matters in an archer is attack, since it's never in the front line (should be that way) and may be only hit by other archers or area of efect magic (so HP would be the second most important stat on them since defense is ignored by spells). I always liked him, he is one of the original members of the force and in my games i always felt bad when i swap out one of them. And since i read his lore in Unknown Marine's topic i always wondered why he is so lame if he is supposedly a veteran archer and the best of all of Guardiana's army, i mean, he doesn't like fighting but that shouldn't draw him back that much when it comes to fight to save the world!

P.S: I still miss Tao's bikini! WHY YOU DO THIS?! :(

Double P.S: i found a secret passage in Alterone castle, it leads from the room where rune knights are hiding before the battle to the room where Kane awaits for you. That secret passage makes sense!. And i found too a walkable square of wall in Bustoke, just above the stairs that lead you to the upper part of the town where you can go to Zappa's (why did you change his name? just asking, when i read that you where going to change a force member name i thought it was going to be Yogurt) prison or that side of the mountain where Boken arrives after the battle of the quarry. That looks like it wasn't intended and i dont remember that being in the original game.

EDIT: Damn i forgot to talk about the coolest thing about this mod!! the thing that i liked the most!! Lobo you are a genius!!: raising the starting level of the force members!, was such a relief to see Gort and Mae both at level 4 and i canot expres how much i loved you for making khris start at level 4 too. I always hated having to level her up, because she is a healer and is dependent of her healing powers (she starts with low MP), is always the last one in the turn and in order to kill monsters they have to be damaged until they only have just 1 HP left.
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Lobo » Mon Nov 23 2015 8:55pm

Poteito wrote:And yea, poor Hans, he is usefull in the first battle but from there his damage is just punny until very late in the game where it becomes just okay, and we all know that the only stat that really matters in an archer is attack, since it's never in the front line (should be that way) and may be only hit by other archers or area of efect magic (so HP would be the second most important stat on them since defense is ignored by spells). I always liked him, he is one of the original members of the force and in my games i always felt bad when i swap out one of them. And since i read his lore in Unknown Marine's topic i always wondered why he is so lame if he is supposedly a veteran archer and the best of all of Guardiana's army, i mean, he doesn't like fighting but that shouldn't draw him back that much when it comes to fight to save the world!


Yeah, you're right. Although Hans has the guts of a chicken, this doesn't mean he doesn't know how to shoot an arrow.
I'll see to change something in his stats. Maybe his attack growth curve.


i found too a walkable square of wall in Bustoke, just above the stairs that lead you to the upper part of the town where you can go to Zappa's (why did you change his name? just asking, when i read that you where going to change a force member name i thought it was going to be Yogurt) prison or that side of the mountain where Boken arrives after the battle of the quarry. That looks like it wasn't intended and i dont remember that being in the original game.


That strange walkable square is there in vanilla. I told myself a hundred times I should fix it in Brothers Mod, but haven't done it yet.

Zappa is the translation of japanese Zylo's name, as you can see in Characters Translation topic.
I found out it was homage to Frank Zappa, as SFIII's werewolf was named Fran(c)k. So I decided to change it.



EDIT:

I found the dificulty level pretty much the same until chapter 3. When i say pretty much the same read it as "god damn it blaze is over powered!". I think it's cool that elements are equally powerfull (not the typical Bolt>Freeze>Blaze) but being blaze present in the very early game makes that idea kinda dangerous, Tao gets Blaze 2 at level 4, and i use to get her to that level in the first battle of the game, so from there i had the chance to obliverate enemies doing unavoidable area damage (10-12 points). Didn't kill them in one shot unless it was a critical (due to enemies' enhanced HP), but as Tao usually is not in the front line, most of the enemies have received damage from your fighters and so you finish 'em up very easily (way easier than in the original game). Dark Mages have Blaze 2 too and they appear in Alterone, at that point half of your party can be one shot by Blaze 2 (not like the enemies, that have enhanced HP). Tao and Khris: bye bye. Lowe, Max and Gong barely survive it. Luke, Hans and Mae: bye bye. Ken and Gort (yes, Gort for some reason got 8 HP in two levels) were the only ones that could handle it well. Until the point i played 95% of the deaths were from Blaze 2. even if i tried to position my force in a manner that didn't hurt that much, at least one of the members died in a battle (due to blaze 2). So, in short, i find that kinda unbalanced.



I have to disagree on that.
Blaze has been empowered, but I don't think it's overpowered.

First of all, the innequation Bolt > Freeze > Blaze still stands. Blaze is still weaker than Freeze, though it might have closed the gap, specially in higher levels (3 and 4).

Blaze 1 and 2 do more damage than in vanilla? Yes. But so do normal attacks, as in general they tend to be higher than vanilla before promotion.
For instance, Blaze 2 does 8-9 damage in vanilla and that's far more than half enemies HP by the time Tao learns it. (Just remember HPs are a bit lower in vanilla.)
Overall, I don't think it's easier to incinerate enemies in this mod.

As for the enemies using Blaze, there's only one Mage in Alterone as in Vanilla. He's a dangerous enemy yes, but being only one, you can go for him eventually killing him before he has a chance to cast his spell. By chapter 2 and later on, you probably won't be one-shot by a Blaze 2 anymore, except for crits.

I myself have been killed by Blaze more often than in vanilla. But I have been killed from normal (and double and crit) attacks a lot more too.


Other thing that i didn't like was Luke being so weak, SO weak. Gort is very good, better than in the original game but Luke is a wimp. In the original game they both were rather low HP but hig defense and good attack characters. Here Gort has very good HP, very good ATK and very good DEF while Luke has poor HP, ok ATK and rather low DEF. Same happened in doomblade's mode but worst, im wondering why you nerf him so much.


I didn't mean Luke becoming weak.
In fact, he should be stronger than in vanilla.

Maybe it was random chance? Or he just got weaker comparing to Gort? (who is a monster early on.)
Did you compare him to other characters? Like Max and the centaurs?

I made Gort an early-growth in almost every stat. While Luke has straight growth.
By the end of the game Luke should be as strong as Gort if they are promoted at 10 and a lot more powerful than him if promoted to 20.


So besides Blaze, as i found the game pretty much the same in therms of dificulty until chapter 3. There the enemies start to be very strong and you have to think that you do in order to end with at least half of your force alive. The Laser eye battle was very good, memorable, but as in doomblade's mode, the laser eye itself is so hard to kill (DAT defense and HP) that i literally ingored it once my force reached the other side of the bridge, going for the silver knight and his guardesmen.


I didn't mean for chapter 3 to become a lot harder. I mean, chapter 2 should be hard as well and the challenge growing as you move along.
Maybe that's because the game introduces so many new enemies that it seems a bit unbalanced. But I still feel it's possible to win battles with only a couple of casualties.

Laser Eye battle was one of my favourite works. It's probably the best AI tactics improvement I've made until that point of the game.
I playtested that one a lot.


So here came the problem that made me leave this mode for now. I've been reading some of the topic and i know that im not the first one to get stuck in a part of the game. I'v been readinf too that you Lobo, say that this mode is challenging for those that do not grind too much. I use to grind a lot in my games, i find amusing for some reason totally destroying the enemy after some time spent getting stronger. But this time i tried to not grind and when enemies started to give me 10-15 EXP points i moved on. So by doing that i ended up stuck in Elliot's battle. i lost a lot of gold in the laser eye battle because i had to re do it like 3 times, and as i saw the poor gold earning from monsters i didn't wanted to re do battles to hoard gold (because that would mean grinding) but i feared that at any point of the game i woul die enough times to get stuck due to lack of gold for resurrections. And that's just what happened in Elliot battle, i lost one time and when i went to resurrect the fallen i had gold to revive just 1 of them. The rest was trying to pick some kills to gain gold, just to get overwhelmed by the enemy forces and eventually having no gold to resurrect anyone. So im not gona play this mod anymore for a while, is kinda frustrating.


I don't know how to feel about that.

I mean, in one hand I can say it was intended for reviving cost to be expensive. Far more than in vanilla.

I thought if enemies gave less gold, grinding would become less inviting. And if reviving is expensive, one should be more cautious about not getting killed.

More along, by chapter 3 on, I thought if you got some guys killed (specially the weaker ones) you might just prefer to swap him by an unused character. Like, 'Hans' dead? Well, I won't pay the reviving cost but put Diane in his place instead.'

It can work pretty well if you manage to keep Max from getting killed and win battles with more than half the force.

Unfortunately, on the other hand, I've found out it can mean an 'almost game over' if you win a battle with only a couple of comrades left alive. Which is very unpleasent.

Guess i'll just have to turn reviving costs cheaper. :blush:


Damn i forgot to talk about the coolest thing about this mod!! the thing that i liked the most!! Lobo you are a genius!!: raising the starting level of the force members!, was such a relief to see Gort and Mae both at level 4 and i canot expres how much i loved you for making khris start at level 4 too. I always hated having to level her up, because she is a healer and is dependent of her healing powers (she starts with low MP), is always the last one in the turn and in order to kill monsters they have to be damaged until they only have just 1 HP left.


I'm no genius for that!

The game developers made a poor work by keeping starting levels so low.
Khris level 2 at battle 4? Anri level 3 at battle 6? Balbaroy and Amon level 5? Must be kidding!
It was not hard to think of changing that. Not hard at all! :)
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Poteito » Tue Nov 24 2015 12:19am

I have to agree that comparing Luke only with Gort may be unfair, but i would say that Max was doing better and Ken too, im not very sure because i stop playing the mod like a week ago. So i decided to start it over once again and analize it better. Ill throw you a new version of my feedback soon, right now Varios is telling me that Runefaust monsters will tear me appart (that's definetly true lol). Ill try to be more wise in my decitions through battles.
With regard to that walkable square in Bustoke, maybe Zappa digged the wall by furious attacks when people were trying to imprison him for his safety!. :shifty:
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby ijshsd » Tue Nov 24 2015 2:13am

As for Luke, if he's that much behind, he really can't do much. :shock:
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Lobo » Tue Nov 24 2015 11:57am

Maybe he did.
Still that square should look different for that. :shifty:

It could be a nice side story, wouldn't it? :)
Any chance the editor event could place it in the game? Like a memory for Zappa once he gets healed?



##########

EDIT:

P.S: I still miss Tao's bikini! WHY YOU DO THIS?! :(


The bikini is not out of the game.
Instead, it has been replaced to a more proper location for it to be found. ;)

Just keep playing and you'll soon have it! :thumbsup:
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Re: SHINING FORCE - BROTHERS MOD *Release Thread*

Postby Lucifer » Mon Dec 28 2015 9:02pm

A bump to be helpful.
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