SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03 2009 5:49am
by rubixcuber
Editor Download: Download v3.4.4 (7/5/18)

Getting somewhere?

Link to the Music Editor

ROM Map for those who are interested: View Thread

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14 2009 3:01pm
by Rusty
woot woot, and woot

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16 2009 6:58pm
by sulfuroxp
how i use it??? :confused:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17 2009 12:24am
by Flygon
You most importantly need to download the Shining Force ROM, if you are unable to find it I suggest adding me on AIM or MSN..

If that is not the problem, than I shall be able to help you by means on instant chat.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17 2009 6:09pm
by sulfuroxp
I edited some things yesterday, only The Force, but when I attack or attacked, the game stop and turn in black

and in the Enemy page of the editor, the names of monsters mixed in the firsts lines and i cant see well >__>

and the monsters name in game its a chaos U__U

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18 2009 9:02am
by Flygon
You're hacking the wrong ROM.

Add my MSN/AIM and I will send you the correct one.

That, or you are using the VERY VERY early Jan/Feb edition of the force editor, in which case, download the most recent editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13 2009 3:39am
by tggrng123
I got a problem with changing the palette; it always crashes when I change it when I fight the Rune Knight at the beginning. Hope it was helpful and thanks

PS: I didn't realize that the thread that I posted in before (the old one) was the old one so sorry :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13 2009 4:27am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, sorry the thread's been a little dead. I'm guessing, or at least hoping, that what happened is you tried to edit a third/fourth palette. I've got some enemies listed as having more palettes as they actually have in the game, and if you edit those palettes... it's not very happy.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13 2009 5:22am
by Flygon
Guys, I repeat, and I insist, DO NOT EDIT THE PALETTES AT ALL.

I'm sorry rubixcuber, but even if you don't edit the 'extra' palettes, I have found the game crashing on me, the palette editor is just too buggy. :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13 2009 1:44pm
by tggrng123
Yeah I tried isolating which one it was but any palette I edit does the same thing. Great editor btw! I've been wanting a "Caravan" for SFI. Thank you sir! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16 2009 6:02pm
by katgirlfeli
how's the editor going? Its been a while since i've been here :( been sick and dying and stuff :3c

I really should start a project soon on this.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16 2009 8:08pm
by rubixcuber
Well, after the site moved and the thread restarted and kind of died I just ended up taking a break. Haven't really done anything other than what's listed at the beginning of the thread.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16 2009 9:22pm
by katgirlfeli
Ah well that's no good. Maybe i should start a project then. Maybe that'll get things moving. I've been kinda at a slump of what to do lately in my free time. I have at least 10 PS2/PS3/Wii games to start/finish yet don't feel like doing that either xD. Started playing the PSP version of Star Ocean 2 and DJMAX: Black Square but maybe a project will keep me busy :3

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17 2009 12:12am
by tggrng123
Yeah I'd love to see this project continue. Cause the editor is already very good and I think with your skills rubix; you could advance it pretty far. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17 2009 12:23am
by katgirlfeli
Well, we gotta give rubix a reason to continue. Back in august, i made a lot of suggestions and stuff which rubix was kind enough to look into and expand upon (last thing i was harping on was Area and Range modifications). I guess without any suggestions or things to look into from me, nothing continued xD (or i give myself too much credit :3c)

Well, if i start my own hack, then i'll certainly run into some things that could possibly get suggested xD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17 2009 12:48am
by tggrng123
Yeah I guess so but I was stating that it would be great! If you were to though, I think maybe being able to edit maps, sprites, battle sprites, animations, and the graphic stuff. With rubix's program there was also a problem with palettes. but that's just wishes XD.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17 2009 2:08am
by katgirlfeli
I have a request :D

Now, i remember playing Flygon's hack and his did a nice job of setting the promotion level to 20 than the usual 10. I think forcing the cap to 20 is nice (which i'd like added to the editor), but another issue comes around...

Due to the way shining force works, Promoted Level 1 effective level is level 11. So problem is, once you promote, your characters get 10 easy levels of leveling up and can gain a lot of power in a short bit of time, making difficulty at certain points of the game an issue since your characters can get a huge bump up if they can get over that hurdle. My request then would be to find out where in the rom you can change the effective level of a promoted character from 10 + level to 20 + level so that such a fluctuation doesn't occur.

I think that's all I can think of for now while i figure out what i'm gonna change here lol

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17 2009 3:26am
by Doomblade66
Holy cwwap ! Rubix is back ! :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17 2009 4:34am
by katgirlfeli
I'm glad my return doesn't matter :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18 2009 10:13am
by Flygon
Level cap (Promotion):
000229D1
NOTE: This changes the level of which the level advances to the cap.

000229D7
NOTE: This is the level cap.

00022C45
NOTE: This is the level level-up messages stop appearing.

You want all three addresses to be the same.

For all your level cap needs when promoted kat... and the location of the level requirement to actually promote is 01743E.

I haven't tested this extensively, but it should work.

I actually haven't hacked for a while, I've been busy working for TASVideos. :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19 2009 4:27pm
by Siel
I was messing around with the range editor but couldn't get the max range to go past 3 while testing in the game. Rubix has said it works and even showed a screenshot of it going past 3. I have the latest version, 9.4, and I've tried with a clean ROM and Doomblade's Challenge Mode.

The "ring" AoE doesn't seem to be showing up properly. When selecting a target, it appears as a "3 square line" AoE. The attack hits the correct targets though.

A range of "block" has a range of 1 less than what is chosen in the editor. (A block with a range of 1 in the editor only targets the user.) This might be intentional but isn't very consistent.

How do stat growths truly work? I've noticed (I only checked about 4 characters) a "late" curve in DEF or AGI approximatively spreads 15% of the gains for the first 9-10 levels, 25% of the gains for the next 4-5 levels, and a huge 60% for the last 6 levels. Promoted Tao's "early-late" curve in AGI somehow lets her gains 50% of her AGI on her first 3 level ups. She then gains 20% of it from the next 2 levels and another 20% from the next 4 levels. The last 10% is then spread throughout 10 levels. That sounds more like a very early growth than an "early-late" one.

I've also noticed that an "early" curve in ATK/HP/MP resembles an "early-late" curve for DEF/AGI. Tao and Lowe both have an "early" curve for MP, but if you'll remember, their MP usually quickly reaches 20 and then stagnates a bit in the 20-30 range for a few levels, before Tao's quickly jumps to 40.

There's some weird column of numbers in the character editor. It seems to display the same things as the "labeled" numbers on the right, but with some extra 0s. The numbers don't seem to be editable either.

Where might the dialogue editor be? I've seen it mentioned in the previous topic but I can only find the font editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19 2009 9:56pm
by Flygon
Siel @ Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:27 am) wrote: There's some weird column of numbers in the character editor. It seems to display the same things as the "labeled" numbers on the right, but with some extra 0s. The numbers don't seem to be editable either.

Where might the dialogue editor be? I've seen it mentioned in the previous topic but I can only find the font editor.

The column is the raw numbers, mainly for what I assume, is debugging purposes, don't worry about them unless something just won't work and you can't figure out what (Not all the numbers in the column are documented).

The dialogue editor is not finished, simple as that. All we can do is wait.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19 2009 10:34pm
by Siel
Flygon @ Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:56 pm) wrote:The dialogue editor is not finished, simple as that. All we can do is wait.


If I were to try to edit the dialogue myself, how would I proceed? Using a hex editor, I was able to easily find the strings(?) for names of characters/monsters/items/classes/spells, but it does not seem like I'll find the dialogue like that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20 2009 6:29am
by Flygon
The dialogue is compressed with a very complex method... which, ironically is the exact same as Shining Force II's, and thats already got editors.

We're all just too lazy to make editors for it. :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21 2009 5:36am
by katgirlfeli
Questions:

Level cap (Promotion):
000229D1
NOTE: This changes the level of which the level advances to the cap.

000229D7
NOTE: This is the level cap.

00022C45
NOTE: This is the level level-up messages stop appearing.

You want all three addresses to be the same.

The three values you're written here aren't very clear. Please elaborate.
Also, remember, i'm looking for two values... well let's make it three :D

1) Level Requirement for Promotion (Default in game is 10, but i'd like that changed to 20 like in your hack :D (i assume this is your first value)

2) Max Level (dunno if its different pre promotion vs post promotion, or if that third value you listed has anything to do with it).

3) The effective level of a promoted character (A level 1 promoted character is effectively level 11. The problem i have with this is when your effective level pre-promotion is 20, and you promote, your effective level is reduced to 11, creating this 9 level gap of power leveling which I DO NOT WANT :D) This value has to exist somewhere and this is probably the most important one, else i'd have to keep promotion at 10 and force it there, which i'd rather raise to 20 :3c

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21 2009 6:14am
by Flygon
1) 01743E is the promoted level requirement, I posted this before.

2) Thats what the triplet values are for, unlike Shining Force II, they spread it across three different values, must have been easier to program or something. However, I've only found this for promoted characters, not unpromoted, sorry.

3) I have no idea where that is, sorry, I also want it too. :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29 2009 9:36pm
by rubixcuber
Huh, I stopped getting reply notices apparently. Flygon, you know for a fact it's done using the exact same method as 2?

If I had documentation for how it works in 2 or the code for it from 2 I could definitely get the dialog editor done. Creating the compression routine was just a headache and I kept putting it off, but maybe if I had something more to work with.

And yeah Siel, there's no way you can edit the dialog in a hex editor. I did pretty much finish the decompression at one point, and have a program that lets you view all the text from the game if you want that. I never got around to building the recompression part of it though, so you can't actually edit or save anything.

The effective promoted level should be easy enough to do. I'll have to check my notes, but I think I may have looked into that at one point. I should be able to get an answer fairly quickly if I actually start working on this stuff again.

Edit: To respond to some more stuff from Siel's post.

The max range value indicates the maximum number of squares the game will process. If you set max range to 5, nothing will appear different. But then if you give an attack a range of 5 it will work instead of being truncated to 3. Let me know if you have any issues past that.

I'm aware of the ring issue. I was planning on fixing that when I got back to working on stuff, but from what I could see no one had even tried using the mod so I just left it on my to do list.

The block range was an implementation thing. All of the ranges are done using the same routine and make use of several of the existing game functions. It is actually consistant with the game mechanics. To get a block of what you are calling 1, the corners are actually 2 spaces away. Without doing a lot of extra modifications I can only work with squares that are within the numerical range, so to get that block the range needs to be at least 2. So yes, the blocks will seem kind of 1 square smaller than you might expect.

Stat curves... to be honest I don't recall and don't see any specific numbers in my notes. Someone else might have a better idea on that.

The column of uneditable numbers in some editors is the raw data. Especially if there is data which I'm not sure what that is, I leave that in so people can look at the data and maybe notice things.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29 2009 11:29pm
by Siel
rubixcuber @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:36 pm) wrote:The max range value indicates the maximum number of squares the game will process. If you set max range to 5, nothing will appear different. But then if you give an attack a range of 5 it will work instead of being truncated to 3. Let me know if you have any issues past that.

Huh, I just noticed that option is there. I guess my eyes were only drawn to the check boxes and didn't bother looking at what was between them?

What's the 'routine' thing in the range editor? It seems like the editor shows it as "How-many-to-skip (Where-it'll-be-at)," with ranges 0-31 all leading? to 0x22929, while 32-63 all skip? by 0x100. 31 is Slow1's range and 32 is Boost1's range, which are pretty similar spells, so it doesn't seem to have a connection with that.

Has anyone figured out what each check box of an enemy's AI does? It seems like if there's a behavior with only the 2nd box checked, a behavior with only the 3rd box checked, and a behavior with only the 4th box checked, and if they all have action 0, they'll go in the designated places in that order.

Similarly, what do the Regen/?/?/?/?/?/Special Attack/? boxes do? I've noticed every mage/healer have the 3rd and 4th boxes checked. Oddly, the gargoyle, the belial, and the evil puppet only have the 3rd box checked. There's the durahan(#68) who also has the 3rd and 4th boxes checked, but doesn't seem to appear in any battle, while the other durahans (#4 & #33) don't have those boxes checked. The dark elf has the 3rd box checked, but no other arrow-user does (the dark elf also has action type 130 instead of 255?).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30 2009 4:11am
by Doomblade66
Action type 130 means "Can use Items in inventory" - but it's risky since it will only work okay if you give them a Healing Item. If you give them a Shield Ring, like certain enemies have at points in my Challenge Mod....and also give them Action Type 130, they will "act stupid" and "USE" the Shield Ring every single turn, even when they are already boosted by its effect.

It works best, then, with 1-use items like Healing Herbs or Healing Seeds.

Even then, they rarely use it intelligently and often act dumb, like NOT healing their friends who have lost 19-HP, and instead healing themselves for 2-HP damage...or, even better, just walking towards your guys, and not doing ANY kind of intelligent healing ! :damnit:

I found Action Type 255 (basic attacking type) the best one - other than the special ones given to various monsters like Armed Skeletons, Dragons, etc - 129 is the one Kane uses that allows monsters to "use" the Sword of Darkness and other weaponish-items, as well as attack (seems like 70% attack, 30% use weapon).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02 2009 3:52pm
by Lobo
Good afternoon, guys!

I just started to edit and test the rom and have had some problems I haven't seen listed here.

1) In the itens menu, I tried to change the equipable classes for some weapons, like letting SKNT Guntz attack with a sword. (I never knew why he does that swinging movement with a spear by the way. :) )
The problem is, though I can equip it and have the proper effect of the sword in the game, on the attack screen Guntz does not wield the weapon and makes no attack movement.
It's like showing the message "Guntz attacks", and then the enemy shines and the damage message appears, with unarmed Guntz standing still all the time.
The same thing happens when I did equip promoted Balbaroy with a spear.

2) Even if I change stat numbers and curves for Jogurt, I can't make him get past from level 1 to level 2. There's some kind of "level lock" in the game that does not allow him to earn levels. When he gets to 100 exp points a message appears: "...It appears that Jogurt's level has increased to 1" or something like that.
Can you locate it in the rom so that we can unlock it on the editor?

I'll bring more issues here as soon as I notice them.

Great great work you've been doing, by the way!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02 2009 8:16pm
by katgirlfeli
Another thing that i was wondering.. Is it possible to remove ?? when it comes to stats? I thought of possibly making things go over 100, though having the game hide the stats is kinda annoying. If it can't be removed, then perhaps the value can be found where it shows ?? whenever a stat is over a different value than 99.

Though I don't know what kind of effect that would have for HP/MP. Dunno if the game would continue to expand the HP/MP bars until they go off screen or if that's a separate value

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02 2009 8:33pm
by rubixcuber
Flygon:

Care to elaborate on the bugs in the palette editor? I haven't had any issues with it as long as I don't edit a palette the enemy doesn't actually have as I was saying before.

Edit: Nevermind I see it. There's nothing wrong with the palette editing, but if you do a save in the palette editor even without changing anything some enemies get screwed up due to the extra palette data. I'll try to get that fixed later.

Lobo:

1) Unfortunately, the characters are only set up to animate with the type of weapon they normally equip. Without making some changes to the system, equipping other weapon types will not work visually.

2) Jogurt is a special case. I remember someone asking about this before. It's probably not a difficult fix, I might look into it if I get back to working on this again.

katgirlfeli:

I had a discussion about this with a couple people in the past. It's on my list of things to do, but it's a fair amount of work for something largely cosmetic, so it hasn't been very high on the list.

I'm pretty sure the bars are completely separate.

Off the top of my head I can't think of anywhere other than the character status screen where the stats are displayed. Is that really the only place or am I forgetting some? If that's the only screen it probably shouldn't be that hard to do.

Well, there's the HP and MP numbers next to the bars, but I'm not sure what to do with those.

Edit:

Here's a quick shot of a modified stat screen (in game). Note that this is just layout, it's not actually displaying three digits of stats yet, the 9's and 1's are hard coded at the moment.

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03 2009 12:22am
by Flygon
Seeing the 999 AGI gave me a surprise at first, I was thinking 'Did the man just invent a stat system of two bytes into Shining Force?!'...

Then I read the description. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18 2009 5:18pm
by rubixcuber
Well, haven't spent much time on anything but went ahead and fixed the palette editor. You should now be able to edit palettes without worrying about crashing things.

Edit: Also fixed the issue with the ring area. Let me know if I broke anything in the process...

Edit2: Ok, I finished the modifications to make it do three digits instead of ?? for stats, just have to get it integrated into the editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19 2009 6:16am
by tggrng123
Thank you! Finally I was able to edit that retarded palette (the stupid pink is not a correct lighter shade for deep red... and the light blue was actually a violet...) It works fine now =) Thank you!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19 2009 6:53am
by Siel
So... I was messing with the effect editor.

WARNING: SPOILER!


I've also roughly discovered how much experience is gained a while ago, but haven't found an opportunity to post it.

WARNING: SPOILER!


Also, what is labeled as "Use Animation" in the item editor is actually the range of the item when it is used.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19 2009 8:17am
by rubixcuber
Alright, the modification for three digit stat display is done.

It's a new check box in the mechanics (wrench) section.

Let me know if you find any issues.

Also note that while attack, defense, etc have been altered to display 3 digits, they are still capped at 99. Removing the cap will be a different mod.

And finally note that I left mp alone because of what they did with the 100 mp being infinite. I figured it made sense just to leave the ?? for that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19 2009 8:23am
by Siel
rubixcuber @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:17 am) wrote:Also note that while attack, defense, etc have been altered to display 3 digits, they are still capped at 99. Removing the cap will be a different mod.

And finally note that I left mp alone because of what they did with the 100 mp being infinite. I figured it made sense just to leave the ?? for that.


Does this mean it's only effectively useful for HP for now?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19 2009 8:24am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, pretty much, unless you remove the caps yourself.

I should have time to do a 255 stat max tomorrow.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19 2009 8:37am
by Siel
Would it be possible to eventually be able to edit how terrain affects movements (the terrain effect too, I suppose) and how EXP is gained? IIRC, default movement costs are only integers, like 1, 2, and 3. I'd like it to be possible to change it to numbers like 1.5 and 2.5. Units with only 5 move would be able to move 3 tiles in the desert and units with 6 move would be able to move 4 tiles in the desert, which is still more than 3.

Currently, EXP is proportional to how much damage an unit deals, making weaker units unable to keep up, unless one goes out of their way to allow that unit to deal killing blows. I'd like it to be something like (Kill EXP) * x + (DMG)/(HP) * (Kill EXP) * y. Thus, even if an unit theoretically deals 0 damage, they'd still gain a minimum of (Kill EXP) * x. Essentially, I suppose this would make it a bit more like the EXP in Fire Emblem, but still with EXP awarded for dealing more damage.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19 2009 10:10am
by Flygon
I don't see movement rates of 4.5 actually being possible unless the game is modified in ASM.

Why? The movement rate is stored in one byte and well... one byte does not usually make allowances for 4.x.

I can think of a circumvention however: Basically, double all the move rates in the game and divide it by half...

This is assuming the Mega Drive has a division instruction or whatever it is, can a ASM lord help me here? :shifty:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19 2009 4:12pm
by rubixcuber
It has plenty of division support. Although I don't think you'd really need any division to do that. Especially if you're just doubling and halving which is just bit shifts.

Or you could just double the movement rates and have the costs stored already doubled, and just subtract from the doubled rates, no need to divide back again really.

Anyways, yes, that probably wouldn't be that hard other than I don't remember the movement costs being stored in any reasonable manner. Perhaps they are and I've forgotten/haven't found them. I'd need to look into that first.


As far as the exp calculation that probably would be fairly easy, I'll add it to the list of things to do, but I don't know that it will be a high priority.

Edit:

Ok, on the stat caps it's as simple as changing a single byte. But... this allows you to go over 99 MP and end up with infinite MP. Any suggestions on ways of handling it people would like?

For anyone who's interested x24805 is the stat cap. Just change the 99 there to whatever.

The two most obvious things to do are to keep MP capped at 99 or to disable the infinite MP altogether. Perhaps have a couple of optional ways of doing it in the editor...

Also, it will need some testing, but I'm betting that stats over 127 will end up being treated as negative. If that's the case, I don't think I'll be doing anything to change that, so 127 will probably be the max.

Edit:

Yes, stats are negative past 127, so that's probably going to be the absolute max. (Except for HP/MP)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20 2009 12:52am
by tggrng123
One suggestion/ wish would be if we were able to edit spell, weapon, and character animations, but anyways, that's awesome I've been so annoyed at having the HP say ??. Great work Rubix, I love it! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20 2009 8:06pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, text editor has been added, but read only for the moment. I'll see if I'm up to finishing the rest of it tonight.

Major News!

I got the recompression working for the text, so I'm going to get the text editor wrapped up in the next day or two and finally have editable text.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21 2009 7:31am
by Aynek
Is there any way to make monsters always give 49 exp when killed? I tried making the effective level of goblins 255 and they only give 9 when killed, is it possible to make them always give 49 or is that hardcoded and unable to be edited?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21 2009 7:42am
by rubixcuber
I'm guessing it's treating anything past 127 as negative. If you set the effective level to 99 it should do what you want, but note that the experience given for dealing damage will go up as well.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21 2009 7:53am
by Aynek
Perfect, set to 127 and it works fine. Hopefully anyways... Hoping by time im ~40 it still gives maxed out exp, but if not i can live with that i sopose.

Also, is there anyway to edit a rom with the state still being usable? IE: I save state at first battle and kill goblin finding out i dont get max exp, is it possible to edit rom, reload, and open that state and still be able to play it with the new level accepted? I remember doing it with the caravan, but it doesnt seem to work with this editor.

Edit: May have found a way around it, it seems the rom keeps track of saved games through edits, so ill just save via the rom and load, seems to sort-of work around my problem.

Edit 2: Also noticed that stats seem to be awfully low, is that a projected level stat, and then after that, level ups are random, or is it per every X number of level ups, thats the average gain?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21 2009 10:47am
by Siel
Aynek @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:53 am) wrote:Perfect, set to 127 and it works fine. Hopefully anyways... Hoping by time im ~40 it still gives maxed out exp, but if not i can live with that i sopose.

Also, is there anyway to edit a rom with the state still being usable? IE: I save state at first battle and kill goblin finding out i dont get max exp, is it possible to edit rom, reload, and open that state and still be able to play it with the new level accepted? I remember doing it with the caravan, but it doesnt seem to work with this editor.

Edit: May have found a way around it, it seems the rom keeps track of saved games through edits, so ill just save via the rom and load, seems to sort-of work around my problem.

Edit 2: Also noticed that stats seem to be awfully low, is that a projected level stat, and then after that, level ups are random, or is it per every X number of level ups, thats the average gain?


Your characters will get highest possible amount of EXP as long as the enemy is at least 3 levels above your character. If your characters can kill anything in one hit, then just being one level less than the enemy is enough. As for the enemies' levels, it seems you'll need to restart the battle for the changes to take effect, so save a state right before entering a battle.

(By highest EXP possible, I don't mean it'll always be at 48. EXP just seems to not go higher once the enemy is 3 levels above your character.)

The stat growths you see in the editor are the projected stats gained when level 20 is reached. Thus, to get an approximate stat total at level 20 unpromoted, just add the character's unpromoted growth to their base stat. For a promoted character, take that previous value, multiply it by 0.85, round that number down, and add their promoted growth unto that number. After level 20 promoted, I've seen it been said/written/typed that the gains are seemingly random. Also, a character promoting will always have their stats reduced to 85% of what they're supposed to be at the level they promoted at, even if you gave them enough power potions to reach 99 ATT.

Example:
By default, Max's base ATT is 6. His unpromoted ATT growth is 17 and his promoted ATT growth is 23. At level 20 unpromoted, he should have about 23 ATT without a weapon equipped. I think there's a variance of up to 25%, capped at 4? If he promotes at level 20, his ATT will go down to 19 (23*0.85). Once he is raised back to level 20, he'll have about 42 ATT, with some variance again.
Lv 01 U: 06
Lv 20 U: 23 (6+19)
Lv 01 P: 19 (23*0.85)
Lv 20 P: 42 (19+23)

Regarding growth types (early/late/early-late/linear) though, I do not know how those work yet. Linear is probably very linear, though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21 2009 11:04am
by Aynek
Thank you, very helpful. Figured it was that way, as thats roughly how SF2 is as well, regarging the random level ups passed 20, or 30 as it is in SF2. Didnt know it was 85% of their lvl 20 un-promo stats that effected their promoted stats tho.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23 2009 6:22pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, so I got distracted by Assassin's Creed II and the new Mario game this weekend and didn't quite get the text editor finished, but, um:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGLDiLt8PK8

Edit: Fixed the ROM expansion so sizes past 2 MB don't screw up SRAM anymore and added the search and editing capabilities to the text editor, although no saving yet.

The only barrier left for saving the text really is just where to put it. I think the text editing is going to require an expanded ROM and I'll just reserve a chunk for the text data maybe 4 or 8 times the original size.

I guess I'll probably have the option to specify where to put it like some of the other data, but it's big enough that it's probably easier just to leave it be.

Unless anyone has any other suggestions...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25 2009 5:30am
by Flygon
I still think just storing it as uncompressed makes the most sense, at least, until people start hitting the 4mb limit.

I don't think implementing bank switching will be very fun for any of us.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25 2009 7:36am
by rubixcuber
Why uncompressed? I don't see any reason not to store the text compressed, especially now that I've finished the compression routine...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25 2009 1:55pm
by Flygon
I'd have just thought it'd be easier to handle personally, but, that's just one mans opinion. :lol:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25 2009 3:52pm
by rubixcuber
On which end? Are you saying you'd like to be able to edit it directly through the rom, or just that it would be easier for me to do?

If it's the latter than it's the opposite, because I'm already done with doing it compressed except for relocating the data, and I'd have to rewrite the routine and still relocate the data to do it the other way.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25 2009 10:40pm
by Flygon
I would have thought it'd been easier to edit with the utility, but, whatever, as long as it works, I'm happy. :)

That, and when I made that post I was so dead tired it isn't funny. :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26 2009 2:05am
by rubixcuber
Well, unfortunately I've been really busy with work because we're launching a new branch of services that I'm going to be involved with a lot.

And thus it isn't quite working yet.

I do have a version that you can play with if you feel like it.

Text Test

It is capable of compressing text, but some of the strings end up corrupted, so use on a copy of a rom.

I think it's something pretty simple, but I just haven't had the time to look into it, and with Thanksgiving, I'm not sure how much time I'll have in the next few days, but I'll try to get it fixed.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29 2009 7:11am
by Doc105
well, a week or so ago I contacted rubix about a point in battle (9 I do believe or if you prefer chapter 3 battle 1) I gave the master mage Bolt 2 and it would miss my characters (im going to go into serious detail as to what i did), unfortunately i had to reformat my hardrive due to other problems and i havnt gotten back to the editor yet,
LONG EXPLINATION OF WHAT I DID BELOW
if i remember correctly 2 of the dark mage spots had been unused so i switched one of them out with the master mage in that battle increased the hp and mp, reset all other points to match the master mage that had been there previously(within the class editor section). After that whenever it would use a attack with bolt my game would crash so I redid stats to match Mishela, in which case bolt worked about half the time and regular attacks no longer worked. I finally started messing around with a few other things and i got regular attacks to work with no problems but bolt seemed to only work at certain (x,y) coordinates on the map, as a general rule though 2 or more spaces right of the staircase the master mage walks down would let him cast bolt but no target would be present after casting. (and that wouldnt really concern me but damage isnt calculated either)

Any Ideas? (also it may be something in the AI that needed to be edited that I didnt edit)

Also ill see if i can recreate the issue (which shouldnt be hard)
-edit- im the person that sent you PM on yt because my account on here had not gone through yet

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30 2009 7:40pm
by rubixcuber
New version of the editor is up.

Text editing is now enabled.

Let me know if you have any issues.

Also, for the more advanced users, it is relocating the text data to x183540, so if you've got any custom modifications in that area it will have a conflict.

Let me know if that's the case, I'll probably add the option to choose where to move it to.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01 2009 8:24am
by Flygon
This editor is nearly perfection. :excited:

Great timing to, the summer holidays have just started. What sort of hyjinks I'll get up to, nobody knows. :shifty:

Granted, user friendliness is very iffy, but these things need polishing anyway. Rome wasn't built in a day. :thumbsup:

Edit: MAJOR ISSUE! I am unable to use ' as a letter for words such as you're. Is it possible to be added in? I know phrases inside the game already use it by default, unless it is something not figured out yet. :blush:

EVEN MORE IMPORTANT EDIT: I am taking a wild guess that the editor is not 100% complete yet. Notably? It appears huffman compression cannot handle the word sexy.

Video example

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01 2009 3:59pm
by rubixcuber
The fix for ' should be easy enough. I think I just forgot to allow it as a character to type.

Unfortunately, the huffman tables don't have symbols for every possible letter combination. The pair xy was never used in the game, so it's not in the table.

I'm not sure the best course of action for handling that. Maybe I'll rewrite the tables and add in the other letters. Only 223 different tables...

Edit: Hmm, I think there is at least one unused table. I could probably just create a dummy character that goes to that table and doesn't actually output anything and then just put all of the symbols in that table. Then whenever it hits an unrecognized pair, insert that character. I'll look into it later...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08 2009 8:51pm
by Siel
(v0.10.2)

For some reason, if the table for ranges is relocated by the editor's default outset (I haven't tried others), upon starting a new game and asked to input the hero's name, the screen will become black, with some graphical glitches. The game apparently goes on, since I could see tiny bits of Varios' face flickering. It also does this if a "new" game is continued (input a name, then reset). Everything goes fine until Max wakes up after being beaten up by Varios (the chapter logo, then Varios and Max fighting).

It seemed to work fine if I imported a range table that isn't relocated, so I tried making a saved state past Varios without relocating the table and then reloading it with the table relocated. It seemed to work fine, but it then glitched again after Luke's first line. The moving parts of the faces, the text box, and the sprites were displaying. Everything else was black, except for a duplicate text box behind the real text box. Interestingly, there was neither a delay nor a jingle when the text saying that Ken, Luke, Tao, Lowe, and Hans joined. After they joined, it was too glitchy to make out anything. Then, after Lowe maybe joined, the whole screen became black and nothing seemed to be happening.

Lowe-right-after-Varios' and the king's text boxes worked fine.

Since relocating the table is apparently only needed for adding more ranges, I'll just edit duplicate ranges for now.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13 2009 11:33am
by Flygon
I await the advanced text editor, I already have a basic script written down (And potentially a completely 'new' game assuming I do this right, apart from the graphics of course).

Just posting to add motivation. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23 2009 9:27pm
by katgirlfeli
rubixcuber @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:12 pm) wrote: The two most obvious things to do are to keep MP capped at 99 or to disable the infinite MP altogether. Perhaps have a couple of optional ways of doing it in the editor...

So whenever MP > 99, then that means Infinite MP? There should be another Byte value that probably determines that. Its probably easier to modify how much MP is used for skills and MP growths instead of affecting Max MP then.

Nice updates while I was away again~ wowing, new super mario bros wii, work, etc~

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23 2009 11:24pm
by Flygon
No, it is only if the MP is 100 that it is unlimited.

If it is higher, it actually glitches the bar (But otherwise works properly), trust me, I found out from personal experience. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24 2009 12:20am
by katgirlfeli
Then, maybe we could find a find the value that determines 100 = Infinite MP and change that to another value or something. I guess its not really important if MP goes into ridiculous values~ a mana pool is as large as the number of times you can cast your spells~ If all your spells cost 1, then 99 MP will last you a long time :D

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29 2009 3:34am
by Flygon
If I wasn't so busy, I would go around to finding that (Enemies with higher MP values do interest me), but I do recall the game not liking trying to display higher MP values.

Incidentally, does ANYONE know where rubixcuber has gone? He hasn't signed into AIM for a while.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30 2009 5:28am
by rubixcuber
Sorry, busy with holidays and such. Will probably get back into things in the next week or so.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30 2009 8:07am
by Flygon
Ah, I was worried about you.

A rubixcuber can't rubixcube in hospital now. ;) Anyway, I'm thankful you're still around, I really was actually genuinely worried.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20 2010 12:29am
by LordOddEye
is there a way to actually create a different sprite for characters.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20 2010 1:00am
by rubixcuber
Not yet, but it may be coming up soon. There's a bit of a vote going on here:

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... opic=15874

Check the last couple of posts.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13 2010 10:43pm
by Rusty
Good stuff indeed

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09 2010 4:54pm
by TaoForever
Is there maybe an easier to use SF1 editor out there? Maybe similar to the SF2Edit one? That one was really simple to use, and you could do a lot of stuff with it.

With this one, there are a lot of things I either don't understand or just can't get to work.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09 2010 9:16pm
by Flygon
This is the only editor out there, really.

I simply don't understand why, but people seem magnetically attracted to hacking Shining Force II, hence the lack of attention to the first game.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09 2010 9:42pm
by rubixcuber
There aren't really any other editors that I'm aware of. Feel free to PM me or ask here if you need help with anything though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14 2010 11:05pm
by TaoForever
Well, the main problem (besides not being able to understand how to edit the character stats and stuff, but that isn't all that important) is with editting spells.

Let's use Tao as an example. I don't think I've ever used Dispel even once in the dozens and dozens of times I've played through the game, so I want to get rid of her Dispel magic, and give her Bolt 1-4. When I edit them in, upon trying to change the level the spell is learned, one of the other spells in her list disappears. If I add it back in, another spell in the list disappears. And so on and so forth.

So I could orignally plan for her to have Blaze 1-4, Bolt 1-4, Boost, and Sleep. But once I'm done editting them in, she no longer has Blaze 1, or Sleep could be gone. Or the Bolt 1 I editted in could have disappeared. Things like that.

No matter how often I try, I have this problem and I can't give her the spell list I'd like.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14 2010 11:11pm
by Siel
That happens because two spells are set to be learned at the same levels while you're typing the levels which causes one of them to disappear.

Example:
Tao has Blaze 1 set at level 1. You then start typing 1 and 2 to set another spell to be learned at level 12. When you type 1, that spell's set to be learned at the same level as Blaze 1, which causes Blaze 1 to disappear.

It's quite inconvenient, but you can lessen the annoyance by setting the spells learned at levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 last.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14 2010 11:14pm
by TaoForever
Ah, I understand. That's pretty annoying, especially when I'm trying to balance out the time the spells are learned. Well, it's all in fun anyway, so I guess doing it 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on wouldn't hurt.

Thank you very much for the help

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15 2010 3:20am
by rubixcuber
Ah, yeah, there's an issue that I had mentioned at one point that I had been meaning to address.

It is only set up to handle one spell per level, and if at any time two slots have the same level, they end up collapsing into one. Thus, if you have a spell at level 1, and 12, and delete the two, you'll have two level one spells and one will be lost.

It's not ideal, but for now if you want to make significant changes to the spell list, you just need to be careful and to do the two digit spell levels first. Then you can add back in a level 1 spell.

Also, if you are adding more spells you'll need to either remove the same amount of spells from someone else or change the table offset. Let me know if you want to do the latter, I'll explain that if you need to know how that works, or find an offset for you.

I'll try to remember to fix that issue if I get some time though. Had forgotten about that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15 2010 4:24am
by Siel
What about the issue with relocating the table of ranges? I've posted about it a while ago (it's on page 3 if the default page settings are used). Basically, it seems that if I have the table relocated, the game's screen turns black when starting a new game.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15 2010 6:18am
by tggrng123
This is great stuff Rubixcuber! What are you currently working on?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18 2010 10:01pm
by rubixcuber
Huh, sorry Siel, been kind of on a break and had forgotten your question. I'll try to look into it soon.

To be honest I've been spending most of my time on my game. I have a 3D game I'm working on and generally only work on the SF stuff when there seems to be some life in the forums. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like things have been a little dead since the move.

Since there seems to be some commenting going on at the moment, maybe I'll get some time to look into things.

Last thing I was working on was graphics compression. I had finished a couple routines, but was getting just garbage data, hopefully just a simple bug or two to work out...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18 2010 11:01pm
by Lobo
Do not lose faith, Rubix! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19 2010 5:06am
by tggrng123
Well I certainly look forward to more features. Like a map editor and other stuff. I think you should continue. I've been waiting for your next release for quite awhile. BTW your 3D game; care to elaborate?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19 2010 7:28am
by Flygon
tggrng123 @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:06 pm) wrote: BTW your 3D game; care to elaborate?

I'm also vaguely interested.

*ahem* Anyway, I can't wait for the next release, or more specifically, full graphics and text editing, I've got a few ideas for what I can do. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20 2010 4:05am
by tggrng123
Oh btw I have no idea if this is even possible, but I've been wondering if it were possible for you to add the ability to change/add music (probably using midi data and translating it into whatever format the Genesis uses for it's music).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20 2010 10:32am
by Flygon
nineko has already released a tool that does this, sort of.

I have experimented with it heavily... and some music would port 'correctly' from Shining Force II (DAC issues aside), however, this tool is probably too difficult for a user without experience/understanding of hex editing and some knowhow on how the sound driver works.

The tool won't be refined due to lack of interest in it, however, and future work won't happen due to it covering all the games that nineko was directly interested in, so, we're screwed.

I'm personally disappointed the tool never got more attention.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21 2010 6:13am
by tggrng123
Well damn... that sucks. I'm not good with hex editing but I am a pro at audio.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01 2010 8:38pm
by rubixcuber
For some reason even though it says I'm subscribed to this topic, I don't seem to get notices anymore...

Anyways, yeah, haven't really worked on SF1 stuff in a while. I'm sure at some point I'll feel like messing with it some more, but right now just not feeling like it.

But, uh, as far as my other project, I do have a dev blog. Haven't given the link to anyone yet, but I guess this is as good a place as any. It doesn't have a whole lot of information, and was started after the project was already underway, so it doesn't have everything, but:

http://www.universeinabox.com/blog/

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02 2010 3:45am
by tggrng123
I'm checkin that out. It looks great! ^_^ I look forward to seein more work on that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04 2010 12:10am
by nineko
Flygon @ Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:32 am) wrote: nineko has already released a tool that does this, sort of.

I have experimented with it heavily... and some music would port 'correctly' from Shining Force II (DAC issues aside), however, this tool is probably too difficult for a user without experience/understanding of hex editing and some knowhow on how the sound driver works.

The tool won't be refined due to lack of interest in it, however, and future work won't happen due to it covering all the games that nineko was directly interested in, so, we're screwed.

I'm personally disappointed the tool never got more attention.

I'm up to pick up my work on the Cube/Iwadare music format once again if there's interest about it. That old music porter is very unfriendly right now because it was a test release, I wouldn't mind to spend more time on it to make it better.
I also considered to make a converter which could take a midi or an XM as input to make brand new Cube/Iwadare songs, but I really lack the motivation, as I don't see a goal or a reason. I've had a hack idea of mine (which isn't part of the scope of this forum, as I wanted to hack a Sonic game), but it was cancelled even before it started due to some impossible things...
I might find motivation again eventually, though I can't make any promise at the moment.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04 2010 12:56am
by tggrng123
nineko @ Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:10 pm) wrote: I'm up to pick up my work on the Cube/Iwadare music format once again if there's interest about it. That old music porter is very unfriendly right now because it was a test release, I wouldn't mind to spend more time on it to make it better.
I also considered to make a converter which could take a midi or an XM as input to make brand new Cube/Iwadare songs, but I really lack the motivation, as I don't see a goal or a reason. I've had a hack idea of mine (which isn't part of the scope of this forum, as I wanted to hack a Sonic game), but it was cancelled even before it started due to some impossible things...
I might find motivation again eventually, though I can't make any promise at the moment.

I really would love that! I can sequence midi with just minimal hex editing skills. So if you were able to do that. It would be very awesome! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08 2010 2:22pm
by Special T
I was checking out the SF3 forums and noticed that BoneIdol created a a Save State Editor with a lot of interesting features. I know your editor changes aspects of the actual game and doesn't deal with game saves at all but I thought there was some really interesting stuff in there.

Somethings that are in the save state editor that I thought were pretty cool were... you have the ability to select any town you want to start at and also who is in your force / reserve list at any time. I think most of the other stuff is already editable in your SF1 editor but I just thought I would share that with you incase you got bored and wanted other ideas how things to add to your editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08 2010 3:09pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I wish it were the case that I had a lack of ideas, but I have a long list of things to add and things that are halfway complete. Just haven't really had the time or motivation to work on this stuff for a while.

I'll probably work on the editor some more once I finish one of the other projects I'm working on right now.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10 2010 2:04am
by Special T
I look forward to future releases and I hope your other projects are going well also!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11 2010 9:05pm
by Luke the Gladiator
^
Ditto.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27 2010 1:24am
by CajNatalie
I've been messing around with the AIs in battles... trying to mod the game in various ways, one of which is that any enemy that can just stand there and do nothing while you throw spears and shoot arrows is changed to actually run out and attack you.

So anyways... the AI behaviors...

Action 0
What it Does: Go to XY coordinates and then stand absolutely still
Parameters 1 and 2 are the X and Y coordinates respectively.
This is the infamous AI action responsible for making things stand still and do nothing... on the other hand, it's usefulness comes in directing monsters to go to certain squares, but I've noticed they lack intelligence and sometimes can't get to certain locations if they're too far away (even if there's an obviously clear path). In these cases, the monster will just stand there uselessly as if it already reached its destination.

Action 1
What it Does: Attack anyone in range; pursue anyone barely outside range.
Parameters 1 and 2 should almost always both be set to 255. If not, then the monster will limit themselves to only moving a certain distance from an XY coordinate, and if they can't reach their desired target by then, they just stand there uselessly.
I'm not sure what this 'certain distance' is, but it could be a number of squares equal to the monster's movement... as I noticed in my first attempt with this that a Goblin moved 5 spaces toward my team from its starting spot (with same XY coordinates as its AI parameter)... but then did nothing after that.

Action 2
What it Does: Patrol (used for flying enemies like Giant Bats)
Parameter 2 has so far always been set to 255... meanwhile, I have no idea what Parameter 1 means... it could be a number referring to a patrol in a list... every patrol being given a number... but I really have no idea.

Triggers
All of them except the top left box I've seen in use so far... and they're all Area Triggers (though the top left box could be and very likely is something entirely different).
Each one corresponds to an area designated on the map.
For example, in the first battle, there are 3 areas... the start area, the area with the 2 dwarves and 2 goblins, and the rune knight has its own area, too.
Anyone who solos strategically will have figured out where most of the areas start and end, and which area is which can be worked out by seeing what enemy's AI each area is used for.


...that's all I worked out for now, but I hope it helps. :thumbsup:
:p

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27 2010 1:36am
by Kcid
I thought SF1 only had one AI setting: dumb

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29 2010 1:12pm
by Flygon
Kcid @ Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:36 am) wrote: I thought SF1 only had one AI setting: dumb

I've managed to see some Shining Force II style magic come out of it, when set to the right perimeters, of course. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 07 2010 5:23am
by Doomblade66
Do I ever know what you mean Flygon ! :-)


It takes a lot of trial and error with those darn numbers to try to get the enemies to be "smart" - instead of their frequent SF-1 "stupid" AI.

I STILL have trouble getting the Healers to be intelligent for the enemies though.


The one thing I noticed in most of the battles it that enemy healers often have "move to this spot - then STOP moving for the rest of the battle"-AI , or they have "don't move at all from your starting square, no matter what is happening around you"-AI.


If they have either of these, they DO tend to act "smartly" and WILL cast their Healing spells on damaged friends - most of the time .....but if you give them "smart" AI where they can move around freely - like you would give to many other enemies, then they often act "Stupid" and will either stand in one place while their friends are getting hammered and NOT cast Heal spells...OR they will move back and forth Left / Right on the map, but again, not be smart and move to attack available enemies, or cast their Heals properly.

It's hard to figure enemy Healers out !

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 07 2010 2:58pm
by CajNatalie
Well, the most likely cause for such stupidity with Healers doing the wrong things at the wrong times is that the game randomly decides behavior for every enemy when they start their turns.
An enemy that can heal its allies will either be in...
1. Attack Mode
2. Heal Mode
It's completely random which one gets picked.

In attack mode, the healer will attack someone they can attack, or run towards someone who's one space out of their move range.
In heal mode, the healer will heal something that needs healing (I'm not sure if there's a priority involved), or if there is nothing to heal... take one step east... if east is blocked, then usually one step west (though in rare cases I've noticed north/south being used).

So for a healer to be set with the attack AI, instead of the 'stand there and do nothing' AI, they will need to be blocked in on their right by something, to ensure that whenever they do the 'step to the east' thing, they have to step west 50% of the time, resulting in them staying put overall (see the battle before Demon Castle, there's a High Priest at the end, and it's blocked by a Golem to ensure it only fidgets left/right/left/right and overall stays put, for an example).

Edit
On a completely unrelated note... I found a bug.
Any weapon that is 'dropped by enemies', if you set it to not be dropped, will suddenly be set to droppable again when you make modifications in other parts of the editor. So every time I change something, I have to save, load, and then check to see if it's set things back to droppable or not (and it usually has).

Otherwise, the editor's great. Please keep up the good work.
I'd love to see this amazing tool grow. :) :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 22 2010 2:22pm
by katgirlfeli
CajNatalie @ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:24 am) wrote: I'm not sure what this 'certain distance' is, but it could be a number of squares equal to the monster's movement

I remember playing with this a while ago and determined the movement (if i remember correctly) to be 2xMOV - 1 (or it might have been - 2). If the enemy is any further away, it wont come closer or attempt to approach the force. That was only calculated against Seabats which fly, and the Weed golem monster Flygon implemented in his mod, so Land Effect could affect this value.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 22 2010 4:25pm
by CajNatalie
Edit: Wait a second, I went back and looked at the post you quoted... you were talking about something completely different from what I thought.

I thought you were talking about how close you have to be to an enemy to draw it out (which is on my mind a lot when I solo, so I somehow assumed you quoted me talking about that). XD

To be honest, I'd totally forgotten about that aspect of behavior 1 you were talking about, since I never use it. >_>

But here's my original useless tl;dr post...
WARNING: SPOILER!
I'm ill.
I make mistakes (and talk/type weirder than usual) when I'm sick. :damnit:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 22 2010 7:36pm
by Siel
CajNatalie @ Sat May 22, 2010 11:25 am) wrote:...however, the behavior seems to be a little weird when varying terrain lies between you and the enemy. In Battle 3, Rune Knights will approach you once you stand close enough in the patch of grass south of where the 3 Giant Bats were... but if you do it right, you can stay in the same spot and have a single Rune Knight approach you for 2 turns, and yet it will not be able to attack you unless it takes a THIRD turn approaching (which means the value used in this specific case is higher than 2xEffectiveMove).
This means either the equation is not that simple regarding land effect when multiple terrain types are present... or it's just a bug... or perhaps it only takes into account the terrain the enemy is currently standing on, and ignores all terrain along the way?


This is intriguing. Could you specify where exactly your character was? I took a map from GameFAQs and drew on it to show how far the closest knight can move in 2 turns.
http://i49.tinypic.com/2wme0is.png

P.S. Oh, and for enemies with a ranged attack or a spell... I believe the radius in which you have to step in to before they approach increases by 1 (possibly regardless of the range of their arrow/spell, since I've never been able to get a Demon Master to approach and fail to get close enough to cast Freeze 3... if I stand 1 space too far for them to cast it on me, they never seem to approach). :eyebrow:

I don't understand what you are saying here. First you say the radius becomes 2*Move+1 regardless of arrow/spell range, but you then say they won't approach unless it's Move+Spell?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 22 2010 8:12pm
by CajNatalie
Siel @ Sat May 22, 2010 6:36 pm) wrote: This is intriguing. Could you specify where exactly your character was? I took a map from GameFAQs and drew on it to show how far the closest knight can move in 2 turns.
http://i49.tinypic.com/2wme0is.png

Though I didn't stand in the same spot on my second turn in the video, if you watch where Max moves to during his turn at 8:36, and then watch the movement range of the Rune Knight on its second turn, you'll see that it wouldn't be able to attack Max if he had stayed put.
In this case, the Rune Knight would have had to move twice its range given the terrain and then 1 more space. Even though I've seen no other enemy show such behavior (they'd all've all been able to attack on their second turn of pursuit providing the target stayed put).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOtBqkwq12I
Now here's a picture showing where Max was stood...
Image

Siel @ Sat May 22, 2010 6:36 pm) wrote: I don't understand what you are saying here. First you say the radius becomes 2*Move+1 regardless of arrow/spell range, but you then say they won't approach unless it's Move+Spell?
Oh, sorry... I didn't explain too well... it's something odd about the final battle of Chapter 7... the Demon Masters in the forest won't approach you unless they can hit you with Freeze 3 within ONE turn, which makes me believe that ability to perform a ranged attack determines +1 ONLY, regardless of range of arrow/spell (i.e. you can't stand out of range to lure the enemy safely... but instead must go closer... where if they had a range-2 attack they wouldn't hit you on their first turn, but with a range-3 they can).
I didn't contradict myself. I'm just completely unable to communicate clearly right now. :p
Anyways, this is only memory from soloing, though... and I've never put much thought in to it... I just deal with it and let them freeze me. So I may have some (or maybe all) details wrong here (this is purely shallow speculation).

Edit: Or maybe, enemies with a ranged attack won't approach unless you're within the radius of Move+3?
Since if 2xMove +1 is true, then those Demon Masters, who can move 3 spaces in the forest, would be able to be lured safely without risk of being Freeze 3'd (2xMove +1 = 7, which is out of range of a Demon Master moving 3 spaces and casting 3 spaces out)... now that I actually think about it. :eyebrow:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 22 2010 9:37pm
by Siel
CajNatalie @ Sat May 22, 2010 3:12 pm) wrote:Though I didn't stand in the same spot on my second turn in the video, if you watch where Max moves to during his turn at 8:36, and then watch the movement range of the Rune Knight on its second turn, you'll see that it wouldn't be able to attack Max if he had stayed put.
In this case, the Rune Knight would have had to move twice its range given the terrain and then 1 more space. Even though I've seen no other enemy show such behavior (they'd all've all been able to attack on their second turn of pursuit providing the target stayed put).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOtBqkwq12I
Now here's a picture showing where Max was stood...
Image

Maybe it calculated its own movement range using the terrain it was currently on, instead of where it'd actually walk on, just as you've said? Where you killed the bat from was 15 squares away from the rune knight, which would be 1 off from move*2.

Oh, sorry... I didn't explain too well... it's something odd about the final battle of Chapter 7... the Demon Masters in the forest won't approach you unless they can hit you with Freeze 3 within ONE turn, which makes me believe that ability to perform a ranged attack determines +1 ONLY, regardless of range of arrow/spell (i.e. you can't stand out of range to lure the enemy safely... but instead must go closer... where if they had a range-2 attack they wouldn't hit you on their first turn, but with a range-3 they can).
I didn't contradict myself. I'm just completely unable to communicate clearly right now. :p
Anyways, this is only memory from soloing, though... and I've never put much thought in to it... I just deal with it and let them freeze me. So I may have some (or maybe all) details wrong here (this is purely shallow speculation).

Edit: Or maybe, enemies with a ranged attack won't approach unless you're within the radius of Move+3?
Since if 2xMove +1 is true, then those Demon Masters, who can move 3 spaces in the forest, would be able to be lured safely without risk of being Freeze 3'd (2xMove +1 = 7, which is out of range of a Demon Master moving 3 spaces and casting 3 spaces out)... now that I actually think about it. :eyebrow:

Following the move*2 rule, a demon master in a forest advances once you're within 6 spaces (3*2). If Max is 6 spaces away and it advances by 3, Max would be in its range for freeze 3. If I understand your situation correctly, then it just seems to be a coincidence (3 move * 2 = 6 squares, 3 move + 3 range = 6 squares).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 22 2010 11:04pm
by CajNatalie
It wasn't where I killed the bat... it's where I moved to immediately after killing the bat, triggering the first lure.
But anyways...
Siel @ Sat May 22, 2010 8:37 pm) wrote: Following the move*2 rule, a demon master in a forest advances once you're within 6 spaces (3*2). If Max is 6 spaces away and it advances by 3, Max would be in its range for freeze 3. If I understand your situation correctly, then it just seems to be a coincidence (3 move * 2 = 6 squares, 3 move + 3 range = 6 squares).

Snipers.

In the Road to Manarina, the Snipers approach when you stand outside of the Movex2 radius (they have 2 move in the desert, making the radius 4). If they only approached if I were within a radius of 4 squares away, then they would be able to shoot me if I came near... but I've always been able to lure them from 5 squares, and therefore be one square outside of their firing range. :)
Hence my belief that it's different for ranged units.

Same applies to the Dark Mages in this battle.

However, now I remember the Ramladu battle... and how I can lure Torch Eyes, it definitely can't be Move+3 for ranged types... so complicated...
...and...
...so off topic. XD

Back on Topic... this editor ish fantastic. :p

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun May 23 2010 12:17am
by Siel
It wasn't where I killed the bat... it's where I moved to immediately after killing the bat, triggering the first lure.
But anyways...


Oh, my second sentence wasn't referring to what actually happened in the video. What I meant was that if you had moved Max one space from where you killed the bat, the rune knight might have advanced, since Max would then have been 14 spaces away (if move*2 using the terrain it's currently on is true).

As for the rest of your reply, I haven't played through the actual SF1 since years ago and I didn't specifically remember ranged enemies doing that. It might be caused by the differing of triggers used for their AI?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun May 23 2010 4:08am
by CajNatalie
Siel @ Sat May 22, 2010 11:17 pm) wrote: As for the rest of your reply, I haven't played through the actual SF1 since years ago and I didn't specifically remember ranged enemies doing that. It might be caused by the differing of triggers used for their AI?

Nope, triggers can only tell enemies to not pursue... they can't tell them to pursue an extra space.

Going back to the Road to Manarina battle again...
The snipers and first dark mage all use the same trigger as each-other.
The final two dark mages and all the zombies use the same trigger as each-other.
Being able to draw one out means you can draw all out.
Being able to cause one to go to a specific location and just stand like a moron means all others will go to their idiot-spots, too. :thumbsup:

This goes back to what I said about the 3 enemy AIs.
One is idiot/goto mode, one is attack mode, one is patrol mode.
Nothing else. =/

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun May 23 2010 1:58pm
by Doomblade66
It is (from my Mod testing // results) Move * 2 for an enemy to determine if they will activate and come at you, when they are set on "Smart AI" (Editor related).

So if an enemy has Move-5....if you approach to within 9-10 blocks of them, they will generally "activate" and start moving towards you, if they are able to. As Caj noted, this seems to be based on what their move is at the moment - as a result of Land Effect %, not what their actual "listed" move is.

So if an enemy has Move-5 and would normally "activate" when you move within 10 squares of him on Land-Effect-0 ground (no penalties).....if he is on 30% Forest, instead, and limited to move 3 as his max range...he will not start moving towards you until you're within 5-6 squares of him (3 x 2 = 6 for "Threat Range").

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed May 26 2010 9:08pm
by CajNatalie
Does anyone know what the difference between 1 and 2 is in the 13th page (the one with the muddle, detox, and bolt symbols on its button) of the editor is?
As far as they know, they're both 'Attack'... but they're different.
So in what way are they different?

Anyone know?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed May 26 2010 10:06pm
by Doomblade66
Here's a list of "effects" from that sub-section of the Editor that one of the other members had discovered during testing. It's actually in this thread - I think - somewhere in the earlier pages, and I can't recall who it was who did the work, but here's what (she) found:


00 - Normal Attack (ATK based, Normal Animation) // Could be useful to give to an archer to give them an AOE Normal Attack Shot if combined with an AOE range :D Maybe help give Hans and Diane an edge.
01 - Normal Attack, has Hanzou's Instant Kill effect on chance (Hanzou did this right? Or was it Musashi?... haven't played in so long, though i started a new game recently)
02 - Normal Attack (No immediately seen differences, but may have something added like 01)
03 - MP Sap (Demon Rod), will state "The Healing Herb is making a weird noise!" then saps about 2-4 MP from the Enemy. Unfortunately, in an AOE scenario, it will sap MP from each enemy, but you will only gain MP from the enemy you last stole MP from. A shame..
04 - A set damage attack doing around 12-13 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
05 - A set damage attack doing around 16-18 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
06 - A set damage attack doing around 21-23 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
07 - A set damage attack doing around 14-16 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
08 - A set damage attack doing around 18-20 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
09 - A set damage attack doing around 22-25 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
10 - A set damage attack doing around 12-15 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
11 - A set damage attack doing around 17-19 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
12 - A set damage attack doing around 19-22 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
13 - A set damage attack doing around 24-28 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
14 - Laser Eye Attack, Damage set around 11-14. Character does Normal Attack Animation on first attack only. Text on first attack will say "(Fire)".
15 - Heals targets for 8-9 HP (Medicinal Herb effect). No character animation.
16 - Heals targets for 17-18 HP (Healing Seed effect). No character animation.

17 - "But Nothing Happens", May possibly be Antidote's use effect. No character animation.
18 - Heals targets for 37-44 HP (Shower of Cure effect). No character animation.
19 - "Something happens to <target>...". Has no effect on enemies, but will Yogurtize Allies. Kinda funny once rolling through all the allies you target, and it shows yourself as Yogurt at the end of the spell. Can be used in AOE just fine.
20 - Heals targets for 12-14 HP (Heal 1 Effect). Uses casting animation and displays fairy over allies, even when healing enemies. Does not gain EXP for healing enemies.
21 - Heals targets for 12-14 HP (Heal 2 Effect). Casting Animation, Fairy, No Exp Gain healing enemies.
22 - Heals targets for 24-29 HP (Heal 3 Effect). Casting Animation, Fairy, No Exp Gain healing enemies.
23 - Heals targets to full HP (Heal 4 Effect). Casting Animation, Fairy, No Exp Gain healing enemies.
24 - Heals targets for 12-14 HP (Aura 1 Effect). Casting Animation, Fairy, No Exp Gain healing enemies.
25 - Heals targets for 12-14 HP (Aura 2 Effect). Casting Animation, Fairy, No Exp Gain healing enemies.
26 - Heals targets for 25-27 HP (Aura 3 Effect). Casting Animation, Fairy, No Exp Gain healing enemies.
27 - Heals targets for 37-44 HP (Aura 4 Effect). Casting Animation, Fairy, No Exp Gain healing enemies.

28 - Cures Poison (Detox 1 Effect), Casting Animation, Green Orb
29 - Cures Muddle, Silence, and Sleep (Detox 2 Effect). Not sure if it can still cure Poison also, wasn't tested ><. No one actually learns Detox 2 in game.
30 - Increases Agility and Defense by 10 (Quick Effect).
31 - Chance to Decreases Agility and Defense by 10 (Slow Effect).
32 - Increases Attack by 15 (Boost Effect).
33 - Chance to Silence Targets (Dispel Effect).
34 - Casts Shield on Target (Shield Effect).
35 - Chance to Muddle targets (Muddle Effect). Muddle on affected targets never really did anything in game, did it?
36 - Deals 6-7 Fire Damage (Blaze 1).
37 - Deals 8-9 Fire Damage (Blaze 2).
36 - Deals 12-13 Fire Damage (Blaze 3).
39 - Deals 36-37 Fire Damage (Blaze 4).
40 - Deals 8-9 Ice Damage (Freeze 1).
41 - Deals 10-11 Ice Damage (Freeze 2).
42 - Deals 15-16 Ice Damage (Freeze 3).
43 - Deals 42-47 Ice Damage (Freeze 4).
44 - Deals 11-13 Lightning Damage (Bolt 1).
45 - Deals 13-15 Lightning Damage (Bolt 2).
46 - Deals 20-23 Lightning Damage (Bolt 3).
47 - Deals 51-56 Lightning Damage (Bolt 4).
48 - Chance to Instantly Kill Target (Desoul 1 Effect).
49 - Chance to Instantly Kill Target (Desoul 2 Effect).

50 - Fully Heals Target, Performs Casting Animation, but no Healing Fairy.
51 - Fully Heals Target, Performs Casting Animation, but no Healing Fairy.
52 - Chance to put target to Sleep (Sleep Effect).
53 - Permanently Increases Attack by 1-2 (Power Water effect). Works on enemies.
54 - Permanently Increases Defense by 1-2 ( effect). Works on enemies.
55 - Permanently Increases Agility by 1-2 (Quick Chicken effect). Works on enemies.
56 - Permanently Increases Move by 1 (Turbo Pepper effect). Works on Enemies.
57 - Permanently Increases HP by 2 (Bread of Life effect). Works on Enemies.
58 - "<User> casts the Demon Blaze!" doing 25-28 damage. Uses Normal Attack Animation on first attack (No flying skulls or anything though).
59 - "All Traces of Poison are removed from <User>". Does an attack animation to each enemy, but doesn't appear to do anything to them.
60-63 - Crashes Game.
64 - "<User> Checks The Doors!", then "Warmup Sequence initiated! 10 seconds... 9..." for each attacking target. Does no damage, does Normal Attack animation after "Warmup Sequence" text. Repeated uses doesn't change anything (just in case the countdown sequence continued on repeated uses).
65-80 - Crashes Game.
81 - "User Attacks!", does Normal Attack Animation, but doesn't do anything after.
82-88 - Crashes Game.
89 - "I'd have fought, if I could, but all i'm good at is buying and selling.", performs Normal Attack animation and nothing else.
90-95 - Crashes Game.
96 - "A stunning attack! <User> suffers 3 points of damage!". No damage is ever done, Does normal attack animation and effectively nothing happens.
97 - "The HEAL spell ends, The Magic Curtain is removed from <Target>", then user does Casting Animation, then game crashes.
98-110 - Game Crashes.
111 - "<User> checks the doors!", then normal attack animation. Essentially does nothing.
112-153 - Game Crashes.
154 - "<User> looks into the well, ", normal animation. Essentially does nothing.
155-168 - Game Crashes.
169 - "<User> checks the doors!", normal attack animation, then "<Target> is defeated!", though no damage is done and nothing dies. Essentially does nothing.
170-179 - Game Crashes.
180 - Opens "Now, who gets it? and opens a trade window. This basically opens up the Headquarters menu as if you were talking to Nova there. Once you're done with this menu, the game crashes.
181-182 - Game Crashes.
183 - "Nothing is unusual.", normal attack animation. Essentially nothing happens.
184-192 - Game Crashes.
193 - "<User> uses <Spell Lv X>!" then displays "Who will use the Medical Herb?", then battle ends with nothing happening. Crashes game if used on multiple targets.
194 - Game Crashes
195 - "<User> casts the Demon Blaze!", normal attack animation, Essentially does nothing.
196-238 - Game Crashes.
239 - "But the Medical Herb Splits in Half!", Spell Cast animation, Essentially does nothing.
240-253 - Game Crashes.

------------------------------------
------------------------------------

* Most of these are trouble and will mess the game or crash it - so you don't want to mess with them. The major ones that are useful for Mod creation I have put in Bold to make them stand out. Changing those numbers changes the damage potential for the spells or enemy special attacks, for example. Other changes will change the "Power" of Heal Spells or Healing Items, for instance.

The 01- is the "chance to instantly kill" effect. You'll notice by default that this is the special effect that is listed next to the Doom Blade :thumbsup: - in the Item/Weapon section of the Editor.

You can add the chance for an instant kill to weapons by adding "01" to it - though I think the resistance to Desoul spell effects if they will be more or less likely to die from that effect on any given attack. It's a very low %-chance anyways, just think of the number of times you have attacked with Hanzou or someone with a Doom Blade in normal playthroughs of SF-1....and the number of times the instant-kill went off. Not too much, I'd bet. It's gotta be less than 5%, seemingly, so not a huge deal either way.


Most of the other numbers from 05 to 13 are enemy Special Attacks, like the Hellhound's Firebreath, or the Blue Dragon's Ice Breath. I know which are which, from my own testing and a more detailed post from the guy who created this list, but I can't remember them right at the moment. I do know that "Effect-13" is Darksol's Demon Blaze attack spell. I don't think anyone ever figured out which Effect was Dark Dragon's Demon Blaze - which annoyed me as it meant I could not edit the damage that his version would do - meaning it would do its default 25-30ish damage.

Hope this info helps !


*

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed May 26 2010 10:26pm
by CajNatalie
It does help.

And thanks to what you mentioned about the Doom Blade, I've also discovered that effect 2 is the Chaos Breaker attack.
Essentially I assume that this means if Max gets a final attack with 'effect 2' on Dark Dragon, the "Finishing Blow" animation will be shown.
And in my own brief test, I noticed that all the 'breath attacks' involved a pause in the attack animation, instead of the user just flicking back to their normal stance right away (with exception to number 12, for some reason).

On a side note, a couple of things caught my eye...
50 is incorrect... it's actually Egress.
99, from what I thought, was the Forbidden Box. But if it crashed the game, then maybe it can only be used in a certain way to avoid crashing (i.e. from an item itself)?

Anyways, thank you, and thanks to the person who went through all the trouble of researching this data. :)

It's a shame it's still a mystery where Dark Dragon's Demon Breath, the Ominous Incantation, and Demon Smile are, though. :(
;_;

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 12:07am
by Siel
I think it was katgirlfeli who posted about the effects. I did a quick search and found some posts, but couldn't find the post that linked to a .txt file (I think there was one?).

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... ntry413283
http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... ntry414251

Edit: Ah, I also found a post I made after trying out the different columns in the effect editor (and an approximation of how EXP is calculated).

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... ntry429626

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 1:55am
by katgirlfeli
Doomblade66 @ Wed May 26, 2010 10:06 pm) wrote: 04 - A set damage attack doing around 12-13 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
05 - A set damage attack doing around 16-18 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
06 - A set damage attack doing around 21-23 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
07 - A set damage attack doing around 14-16 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
08 - A set damage attack doing around 18-20 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
09 - A set damage attack doing around 22-25 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
10 - A set damage attack doing around 12-15 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
11 - A set damage attack doing around 17-19 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
12 - A set damage attack doing around 19-22 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.
13 - A set damage attack doing around 24-28 damage, uses Normal Attack animation.

The information you're using might be outdated, i thought i updated 04-13 with proper values~

Values 04-13 are used for Monster Special Attacks (such as Cerberus's Flame Attack, Chaos' Laser Attack, Armed Skeleton's Chaingun Attack, etc)... If i can't find the file, maybe I can re-enter this in.

I might have reformatted since so i might not have the file i updated anymore though >_> i posted earlier and said -1, but i don't really remember (and that's before Land Effect) x.x

CajNatalie @ Wed May 26, 2010 10:26 pm) wrote:50 is incorrect... it's actually Egress.


50 is indeed Egress ONLY if the Area of Effect you choose is also 50 (at least, that's how I remember it). For other values, you'll get the Healing effect that I mentioned.

The same goes for the Mysterious Box that gets you all to level 20, the effect ID and Area ID must be correct or it just does some other goofy thing.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 2:10am
by CajNatalie
+1 :thumbsup:
Well thanks again Kat.

Anyways, to Doomblade here, so modifying value 13 doesn't alter Dark Dragon's Demon Breath?
What about modifying 58 (oh wait... that would require hex, since it's one value beyond the editor's range)? :damnit:
...but still... it should be possible to locate the address using the offset data provided in the editor. :p

And to everyone... ish there any chance anyone's figured out value 10's identity? :3

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 2:19am
by katgirlfeli
Also what you listed about movement Caj is fine. I only tested on Seabats and another monster and both were unaffected by Land Effect (due to Flying for one, and 0% land effect for the other). If you did any testing yourself WITH Land Effect, then you went further than I did. I did always assume that they had to be able to reach the force with 2 turns or they wouldn't bother, though you seem to have found exceptions so it may not be that simple.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 2:22am
by Doomblade66
Yes - it WAS Katgirlfeli.

For some reason, I could not remember the name, but I "knew" it was a girl who did the leg-work on that info.

Funny thing is, I am not sure if Katgirl IS actually a girl, but wanted to give credit where due. ;)


And yes - Katgirl gave the updated chart just above - so that's the one that tells you what monsters special attack each refers to. It was exceptionally helpful in forging the Challenge Mod, so much thanks to Katgirl, yet again.


** Personally, I always felt Effect-10 was the "Ominous Incantation" that the Evil Puppets and sometimes Mishaela (I think) ....use on you to "steal HP". No confirmation though, and I could be wrong - it's such a rarely seen attack anyways, I never worried too much about it. **

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 2:27am
by katgirlfeli
I am a guy, i just happen to use a girly name here. Normally i'm darkwolf777.

I don't think I overlooked Ominous Incantation when testing Effect 10, but maybe I did, it'd be worth trying I guess~. I think the coding for it would be similar to 04 though, where its a script that occurs elsewhere with a set value outside the normal for these attacks, but who can say x.o I had determined that it did around 12-15 Damage, but I don't think Ominous Incantation was that strong though. Most of the Force would die in a hit at that level x.o;

Giving a Force Member an HP stealing ability wouldn't be so bad right, but I wouldn't know how the enemies' scripts are called nor how it could be set up for a force member to use.

The MP stealing ability of the Demon Rod isn't with the attack data, so its a value determined elsewhere x.o I don't think that value was found yet.

I wonder if there are other ways to inflict ailments through the skill editor. I would like to have a Poison spell too, since no one on the force can actually inflict Poison. There are probably modifiers in the enemy attack data/scripts that cause this but I dunno if Force members have the same information in their attacks, and if they do if those values had been found at all ><

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 2:47am
by rubixcuber
Wow, it's busy in here.

Anyways, I haven't messed with it in a while, but by my notes you can have a chance of causing poison by using effect 5 and sleep by effect 6.

I also seem to have Ominous Incantation listed as 3-4.

I should probably actually try to verify some of that, but just throwing that out for now.

Edit: Yeah, the effects 5 and 6 rely on another flag, so not sure how to make those work with spells.

But if you use the class editor, you can give one of the classes like SDMN the poison chance on hit.

You'll see on enemies like the zombie, it has a Special of 5 and Special Attack checked, which is what gives it the poison attack.

Edit2: And Ominous Incantation is implemented as a special of 3 or 4. I don't remember off hand, the special values I was thinking used the same effects table, but I suppose they might actually be something entirely different.

Edit3: Also, I'm back for the moment, not sure for how long. Going to take a crack at decompressing the map data tonight.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:08am
by katgirlfeli
It would appear you could but only for specific classes (since adding a Special Attack modifier only seems available to Monsters and Classes (under that editor))

So it would seem that likely through that you can get a CLASS to perform Sleep/Poison with normal attacks, but it woudn't appear as something you can apply to Spells or Weapons though, which limits it.

I wouldn't mind Domingo being a Poisonous Jellyfish thing though, would be amusing x3

I myself believe that the Special Attack modifiers refer to some section of code, separate from the effects we've seen for Spells / Special Monster attacks that are basically damage driven, etc.

Turning that Special Attack on to that specific number references some other code we having found yet, determining what the attack may do in addition (like Poison/Sleep) or change the normal attack entirely (turning into Ominous Incantation for example).

It might be easier to say that when there is a chance on a normal attack (for a Enemy anyway, with the Special Attack box checked), they may choose to do an entirely seperate attack (called up by the Special Attack ID number) then perform that attack. Problem though is that this doesn't seem to include alternate Special moves like Fire/Ice breath, etc, which may be another value entirely (Since Ice Worms can sometimes Sleep (by having Special Attack checked with a value of 6), but they can also cast Ice Breath randomly, so monster data may have something missing that determines that too but i dunno where x.x)

Update: Checking the Spell Data for Sleep (Default ID is 52), it does have a value of 6 under the third ?. Perhaps changing this to 5 can cause the Sleep Spell to be a Poison Spell instead? Could be interesting :3c If that's the case, perhaps changing it to 3 could make a Force Member do Ominous Incantation as a spell... maybe :< Noticing again, Spell 33 uses 3, so that might be for Dispel's use, and Spell 34 seems to be Shield so perhaps if that is the value, neither are for Incantation, or maybe these values mean nothing to Status Aliments/Special Attacks and its just coincidence x.x

Update 2: Changing Sleep to 6 only caused Spell to Muddle instead :<

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:23am
by rubixcuber
Ok, I know how to make a poison spell!

In the effects table, make an entry that is:

129 44 7 255 255 0 3 108

Actually, if you keep all the values but vary the third one (the 7) you can get a bunch of different effects.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:23am
by Siel
Update: Checking the Spell Data for Sleep (Default ID is 52), it does have a value of 6 under the third ?. Perhaps changing this to 5 can cause the Sleep Spell to be a Poison Spell instead? Could be interesting :3c


No, changing it to 5 will make it have Muddle's effect.

From the post I linked earlier:
3rd Column
0 Quick
1 Slow
2 Boost
3 Dispel
4 Shield
5 Muddle
6 Sleep

7th and 8th Column
3 & 108: Status effect (QUICK, BOOST, SLOW)


Edit: After seeing rubixcuber's post, I tested some more values for the 3rd column.
07 Poisoned
08 Cursed
09 "Something happens to [target]..." (no icon appears in the status window)
10 "0" (I don't know what this "0" is based on)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:26am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, this is in fact a completely separate set of effects used for special attacks and such that is called by the main effect table, I'm going to have to put together a list of them.

At least we can cast poison and such now.

I'm not sure I agree with all of those values, this is what I've got from testing them just now:

0-1 Speed + Defense down
2 Boost
3 Dispel
4 Shield
5 Muddle
6 Sleep
7 Poison
8 Curse
9 'Something happens to ____'

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:32am
by katgirlfeli
Yes, setting it to 7 did indeed inflict Poison, which is pretty neat :3c

Since we also have the values of how much damage Poison does, we can turn poison into an effective skill.

lol you can inflict Curse as a spell? Kinda funny, but can be used as an enemy Disabler in a way xD

After testing out curse, it doesn't seem to affect the enemies by just having the ailment on them, or I was just very unlucky for it to not affect them after at least 15 attacks x.o;

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:33am
by rubixcuber
Maybe the 0 and 1 differ casting on force members or enemies? What were you testing on?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:37am
by Siel
rubixcuber @ Wed May 26, 2010 10:33 pm) wrote: Maybe the 0 and 1 differ casting on force members or enemies? What were you testing on?

If you mean me, I don't think I had actually tested 0 and 1 but had just assumed that was what they were for since the effect numbers match those spells (Quick has effect #30, which has 0 in the 3rd column).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:37am
by katgirlfeli
I tried 0 and 1 myself just now, my Tao casting on the opening Goblins

0 - Quick
1 - Slow

Though, it doesn't display the debuff icons though (the ball 'n chain, and the little quick guy, or did that not show up in Shining Force 1?). It does wear off after a turn or two like normal.

After playing around some more (though may already be known):

The 2nd ? in the Skill Editor determines the animation.

The 3rd ? is determined by what the skill does, dependent on the last 2 values:
The last 2 values in the Skill Editor correspond to the type of skill it is, though these values seem preset and shouldn't be changed at random...

0 52 = Restores HP
The Third ? have all been set to 255 for Healing abilities, so it may do nothing, Healing value is determined by the Damage Column.

2 254 = An attack/damage inflicting ability.
The Third ? possibly determines Elemental Effect, though not certain (all blaze spells have 8, all freeze spells are set to 17, and all bolt spells are set to 34, for example)

3 108 = A Chance to inflict a status
The Third ? being which status (as displayed previously).

4 190 = A skill that levels up a stat
The Third ? determines which stat is raised (should be 0-5, 5 saying "but nothing happened, any higher crashed the game).

Those were just simple observations that may have already been observed. Changing the last two values to different once that didn't match up just seemed to glitch up the game, so the values seem pretty specfic.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:51am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, it is quick and slow, I was just being momentarily dense and also forgetting exactly what quick and slow did.

Edit:

And yeah, thanks katgirlfeli. I have that information actually, which is how I got the poison spell figured out so quickly. I really just need to get all of my notes put together and post them or something...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 4:18am
by Siel
After playing around some more (though may already be known):

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... ntry429626 (although it's a bit messy)

But to complement your post:
The 1st column determines what the user does (such as swinging weapon at enemy for an attack or raising weapon and pausing to cast a spell. I think there's also one that has the character attack and pause to cast a spell).

The 5th column seems to determine the text that accompanies the action (such as "[User] attacks!" or "[User] casts [Spell]!").

All of the effects viewable in the editor have a 0 in the 6th column, so maybe it isn't useful?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 4:23am
by rubixcuber
I think I know what the 6th column does, let me see if I can find my notes...

Edit: Eh, can't seem to find it right now. If it bugs me enough I'll check the code.

Edit2: Well, the effect routine never even loads that column! So I guess maybe it is totally pointless.

Edit3: Map format is going well! Stored pretty simply really, mostly just run length encoded.

Edit4: Alright, I can read the map data now. Will try to get an editor done tomorrow!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 1:06pm
by CajNatalie
Welcome back Rubix, looks like you must be doing some nice work on the map data.
Keep it up. :) :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 1:22pm
by tggrng123
^_^ Great work! Welcome back rubix.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 3:27pm
by rubixcuber
Thanks everybody. Got a couple things in store for the next couple days.

Should have a map editor ready soon, and then the uncompressed text mod which I know Flygon at least wanted.

Also going to add a bit to the effects section to reflect what's been found out since I first made the editor.

And will try to remember to fix the spell level issue... I know that's a pain.



I wish I knew how this data matched up though. Right now for the sprites, I have 54 entries you can edit, but there only seem to be about 43 maps. Not sure how those relate...

I guess I'll know more once the editor is ready, just musing at the moment.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 4:16pm
by CajNatalie
The same map could use multiple entries if a battle takes place on that map, perhaps?
There could be a walk-around version and a battle-version... like in the battle with Kane, there seem to be two versions of the same map, evidenced by the fact that the walk-around has a Broad Sword and Halberd whilst the battle has a Healing Seed and Shower of Cure in apparently the same treasure chests.
Same applies to the battle in Alterone... the chest in the water has a Power Potion in the walk-around and a Healing Seed (IIRC... it's been a while since I checked) in the battle, so I assume it uses two different entries.

Or maybe I actually have no clue, since I'm not the one disassembling the code here... but on the off chance I'm on to something... I'm posting this in the hope it helps.
:thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 7:05pm
by rubixcuber
Well, the battles are handled totally separately.

I am thinking that may be the case though, that there are maps which have multiple sets of sprites which change based on story triggers.

Edit: Ok, so I think I've got the maps pretty much loading properly. Just need to figure out how to do the editing. I'd like to do it graphically, but not having access to the actual tile graphics yet...

Also, a useful change for testing that I'm using:

At x1084A, change 6B56 to 4E75 and you can walk anywhere.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 11:16pm
by katgirlfeli
Question:

Are there any known bugs for any of the options in the editor that expand the rom that are known?

Do expanded spells work for both allies and enemies without any issues?

Even though i've procrastinated and procrastinated (lol it was last august when i was doing all those things with the editor), but i should probably start preparing some things, like classes, stat/skill changes, etc x.o; so I just want to make sure some things like that were working before i started implementing anything.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 11:22pm
by CajNatalie
Extended spells do not work for enemies, I am told.
You can re-shuffle spells, however (manually, though, as in enter the data for each spell and dot in each pixel for their icons yourself)... and the dummy slot should still be usable by enemies, I think.

The force is fine with extended spells.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 11:32pm
by katgirlfeli
Hmm thanks.

rubix,would it be too difficult to add a copy/paste option for the spells (something like that should be fairly simple)? (and perhaps other graphical applications, though spells would be the first thing I want to change), so that redrawing them wouldn't be such a hassle?

If the enemies can't use the expanded spells, then of course spells 0-15 would have to be Spells i want both enemies/force to use and 16-31 = spells i only want the force to use.

So i could move stuff like Egress over to the expanded slots since no enemy would use that for example, and possibly Shield and stuff like that (Even though no enemy has had "Shield", are they programmed to use it correctly? I guess I'd have to test that first, since enemies using Shield can help alter the overpoweredness of Spells a bit with a good old AOE Shield lol). ><

Also, Flygon, you mentioned you had a value in the rom that modified what was the Max level you could promote at, as well as (possibly) the effective level of a Level 1 Promoted Character (that i may have been asking for earlier in another thread). If you can find it, could you tell me what those values were again? (since its not in the editor as of yet)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 27 2010 11:51pm
by rubixcuber
I will certainly consider it, but probably not going to be on the top of my list.

I want to at least get the map editor working first. I've got all the data loading, and think I've mostly figured out how to get it displaying nicely. Although I think I'll still have the same tileset issue as with the tile editor, but that's not a huge deal.

I've never personally tried making an enemy use an extended spell. I don't see why it would have an issue, unless there is AI tied to the usage of specific spells which is possible, but then shuffling around wouldn't really help. It might work, but it would just be using the behavior from the old spell.

Just a guess on that though, might look into it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 12:22am
by katgirlfeli
Its no big deal on the copy/paste thing. Since the palette is 16 colors, maybe doing something completely different than using the standard 3 colors. I'll have to see :3c

Does each Spell have its own palette or do all spells use the same 16 color palette? (I'm not sure how items do it, but maybe they used all the same palette too x.o)

If they did have their own individual palette, maybe i'll change from the standard 3 colored spell icons, else i'd have to see what colors I can fit and how to make it work with each spell.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 1:43am
by rubixcuber
Not only do all the spells share one palette and all the items (well, the icons at least) share one palette, but they both share the same palette!

They were very much for reusing things.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 1:45am
by katgirlfeli
oh u guys. (the original programmers)

Well, I can't touch the palette without messing with the item palettes either. Guess i'll try a few things with icons or keep it the classic goldeny color :o

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 2:44am
by CajNatalie
BTW, adjusting the icon palette will adjust the colors used by sprites in the game whilst town-walking, IIRC.

I remember this since I recently tried messing with palettes just for the hell of it.

I'd recommend against adjusting the palette entries unless you're willing to accept what happens to everything that uses those palettes.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 2:46am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, they multipurpose a lot of the palettes...

Anyways, sneak preview of the map editor!

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 3:06am
by Rusty
:love:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 3:32am
by katgirlfeli
CajNatalie @ Fri May 28, 2010 2:44 am) wrote:I'd recommend against adjusting the palette entries unless you're willing to accept what happens to everything that uses those palettes.

Yes'm. I understand how palettes work, its just i wasn't hoping they used the same palette set for multiple things, which they did apparently xD

I finally made my EXPLOD skill messing around, since i planned on giving someone :3c The only issue with it is that damage to Force Members with your own skill grants you EXP >< This might only be an issue with only one Force member I was planning to use for it, but its troublesome I guess to gain EXP for additional damage you may do to yourself and other allies lol. It would be too abusive to gain 48 EXP, egress out and do it again x.o;

Ah well, I guess it can't be avoided. Area Effect damage 3 (allies and enemies) was only used for Laser Eye anyway, so I guess its not like it was something they had to worry about. I might keep the skill in anyway, since for this character, i might just keep the rest of his stats fairly low, making extra levels less of an issue.

Its looking to be interesting though. I might give it to Yogurt too for laughs. With his 1 HP, he wont survive it, but at least he can go out with a bang. xD You guys like exploding hamsters, right? :3c

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 3:40am
by Doomblade66
Rubix, I can say with certainty that enemies cannot properly cast from "extended / new spell slots" - it was a huge problem with my original 1.0-Version of my Challenge Mod for SF-1.

Colossus could not cast the new spells I had created for him, and when his turn came, as soon as the cursor settled upon him for him to "activate" - the screen would lock up / go black.

The only way I was able to solve it was to change some of the "existing spell slots" into the New Spells I wanted enemies to cast, and move the "original spells that had to be turned into new ones" - down the list into the Extended Spell Slots.

YOUR party members can cast from those new slots without any issue, so as you surmised, it must be something with the enemy AI not "knowing" to "check" in anything other than the original 15 or so spell slots that existed with the default game.

-------------
-------------

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 3:50am
by rubixcuber
That should be Jogurt's sole purpose. Suicide bomber!

And Doomblade, if it just didn't know to check it wouldn't lock up. That's why I think there's a table tying AI to spells which hasn't been expanded to handle the extended spells. I might look into it, but not considering it a high priority.

Edit: Added a new version with the map editor, only loads and edits at the moment, will try to finish saving tomorrow.

You may notice when switching maps that some of the tiles look messed up. Just adjust the Graphics 1 and 2 settings until it looks right. That's due to not having the graphics compression done and just cheating on the tile graphics.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 10:05am
by CajNatalie
It would be nice to have a way to set the AI for each spell... I'm assuming it's limited to only two options (attack AI and heal AI... Muddle would count as an attack spell), but that would be enough for most purposes.

Anyways, yay for exploding Jogurt. XD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 12:02pm
by Flygon
Please excuse my general lack of posting, I've been lacking reliable internet access until now... well... all I can really say is... rubixcuber, I would kiss you if you were either gay or bisexual.

I really regret not seeing the progress that has been made earlier!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 1:30pm
by Doomblade66
You have to realize, Flygon, that Rubixcuber is actually neither male nor female. "He" is a giant robotic eye, just like his avatar, that has limitless knowledge of all things Editor-related, and has turned his vast intellect to this Forum, on a whim. . . to amuse his higher-level programming by providing the SF-Editor to us all.

Sort of like President John Henry Eden, for fans of the Fallout-3 game - lol


;)

-----------------------
-----------------------

Joking aside, Rubix - I have one vexing issue where the Editor is concerned, that I hoped you would be able to assist me with, now that you have turned your All-Seeing Gaze upon your needy public once again:

- When I went into the Item Section of the Editor, to modify some of the spells and spell-effects of certain items, I encountered some strange issues.

Basically, SOME of the Items can be edited with modified effects, and they seem to work fine (as I intended)...while others do not.


Examples:

The Valkyrie - unique end-game spear - casts Heal-3 when "used" in my Challenge Mod. I made the needed changes in the Editor, and it works just fine, as I planned.

However, the "checkmark" that we THOUGHT was "Hit Point Regen" - does not seem active - (maybe it never was for the Valkyrie and I mis-remembered) - and no HP regen occurs on characters with the Valkyrie equipped. Is this an error, or is there something else I needed to "checkmark" in the Editor to make that work as intended ? (I wanted it to regen 5-HP per turn)



The Shield Ring - this item is normally not available in the regular game....but is in my Challenge Mod as a hidden item / chest during the battle with Kane in Dragonia. It's "effect" when "used", is to cast Quick-level-1 spell on a friendly target (or the user themself). It DOES work as intended...with a catch.

Quick-level-1, in my Challenge Mod - has a range of 2-squares, instead of the default range of "1" in the normal game. Characters can cast the "actual spell" just fine, and it works in a 2-square range, as I intended. BUT...when they go to cast the spell by "using the ring" - it only functions as a 1-square effect - in other words, the Editor does not seem to recognize my changes to Quick-1, when applied as a "Use Effect" to the item, and is defaulting to the "original range" for the use-effect that the ring normally has in the standard game.

Why is this so and is there any way to fix it ?


The only other major examples that are giving me problems are in the Sword of Darkness, which Kane wields, and in a special (unique) weapon wielded by a certain Chapter-8 boss. ;) (to those who have played the Mod and know who I'm referring to here)


The original Sword of Darkness in the default game, when used, casts Desoul-level-1. This spell has a range of 2-squares, like Blaze or Freeze, but can only target 1 character (like Blaze-1 or Freeze-1, for example).

It uses (from memory) "Effect 48" - I THINK - in the Editor when you load a default file of Shining Force into it.

In my Mod, however, I wanted to improve Kane's lethality a bit, and increased the Sword of Darkness' "use effect" to Desoul Level-2. I think this is Effect-49 (again, apologies for my memory, if I'm off on these numbers).

Now..the bizarre part is, when Kane goes to use his Sword, in my Mod, he is limited to only 1-square range (people right next to him), as though he were making a physical attack against them. BUT...when the ability activates in the "Battle screen" - it will actually spread out and affect other possible targets in the surrounding squares, like Desoul-2 actually can.

* Desoul 2, in case you are unfamiliar, has a "5-square / cross" pattern of effect, like Blaze-2 or Freeze-2, and keeps the range of 2 that the Desoul-1 spell normally has. *


So...the effect becomes he CAN produce a Desoul-2 effect, but he is limited to having to be right next to the target to do it, and one "square" of it is always "wasted" as it counts it as originating from him (his square)

X= Kane
O= Squares affected when he uses the Sword, as it currently is working

--O-
OOX
--O-


As you can see in my primitive diagram, Kane is forced to fire it off from right next to him, instead of the 2-square range it should have, and one "square" of it's effect is always wasted as it is projected from him.

Also bizarre is the fact that when he uses it, no actual "Area of Effect" white squares pop up and are visible at all. If you didn't know he could use it to cast Desoul-2, you would not know what was happening to you and why multiple characters were even being affected by the Grim Reaper / spell effect.


-----------

This exact same issue is prevalent with that end-game character that wields a special weapon I created. The weapon was created by modifying one of the special items that are not used in the actual game (I think I edited the Forbidden Box - icon and recreated the thing into the weapon meant to be utilized in the Mod). Then I assigned a Spell Effect to the newly created weapon, when "used" in battle.

The "use" affect SHOULD be a spell with a 3-square range and an "5-person Area of Effect" white hex box. BUT, in the actual Mod, when the character uses the weapon, it only functions like the above diagram with Kane. The item DOES work, but it only fires off on people right next to the enemy using it - and again there is no visible "Area of Effect" boxes produced ? ?


Can you help me in figuring out why this is happening, and perhaps use your Hex Lord // Editor Master skills to suggest a fix ?

It's not CRITICAL, by any means, but it would be nice to have these few items work as intended, and any aid you can offer would be most appreciated.


*** One final thing I thought of to mention - when my Shining Force members actually have the Sword of Darkness, and try to use it - it seems to work fine, as I intended, and produces the actual Desoul-2 effect, White Area of Effect boxes, etc - so for some reason when the enemy tries to use the modified effect, it is having some problems recognizing it ?

Note that the Shield Ring is still behaving incorrectly, as noted above, despite it being something that just the Force is using in my Mod...so I don't know why the different results in these two items ? ***

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 2:24pm
by Siel
The Shield Ring - this item is normally not available in the regular game....but is in my Challenge Mod as a hidden item / chest during the battle with Kane in Dragonia. It's "effect" when "used", is to cast Quick-level-1 spell on a friendly target (or the user themself). It DOES work as intended...with a catch.

Quick-level-1, in my Challenge Mod - has a range of 2-squares, instead of the default range of "1" in the normal game. Characters can cast the "actual spell" just fine, and it works in a 2-square range, as I intended. BUT...when they go to cast the spell by "using the ring" - it only functions as a 1-square effect - in other words, the Editor does not seem to recognize my changes to Quick-1, when applied as a "Use Effect" to the item, and is defaulting to the "original range" for the use-effect that the ring normally has in the standard game.

Why is this so and is there any way to fix it ?


Looking at your 1.1 mod, this is what you set for Quick level 1:
Range: 21 (0-2 range, 0 area, targets allies)
Effect: 30

and this is what you set for the shield ring:
Use range: 30 (0-1 range, 0 area, targets allies)
Use effect: 30

It'd seem the solution would be to change the shield ring's "use range" to 21 to match with the quick 1 spell.

As for Kain and the Ch8 boss, might it be happening because they are bosses (and thus maybe somehow special)? Have you tried equipping those weapons on normal enemies?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 2:37pm
by CajNatalie
This goes back to what I said before about how you should be able to mod the Chaos Breaker to Freeze 3 with Bolt 2's range/area.
Range and Effect are entirely separate according to the game.
You have to set both values.

However, the problem with enemies using items has always been there... have you ever noticed how Kane in the original game can't use his Sword of Darkness properly either? He's always been limited to the squares immediately beside him (the programmers probably thought Kane was too powerful, and nerfed him by setting a range limit on all enemy item usages, regardless of how far the item's range actually spans).
But to make matters worse, the AI seems to even function as if it works the way it should, so when randomly calling his 'use item AI' Kane will often move as if aiming for a ranged attack, but then just skip his turn since he's out of range.
This means there's probably either some constant out there that determines AI item range, or that the item range = unarmed range for the AI.

The best remedy is to either give Kane ??MP and change his Action Type in the class editor to 128 (spellcasting) and give him Desoul 2, or create a new level of Desoul tailored to what you want, and have it cost 0MP, then give him that with action 128.
Personally I made a 'Level 3' Desoul for Kane, in my unreleased mod. The Sword of Darkness is unchanged, but I decided that since I've left his battle AI untouched, and left his regen switch off, meaning it's possible to stick an archer beneath him and shoot until he's dead, I'd give him something with a 3 square range to retaliate with.
On a side note... if you want things to make sense within the game story for what I personally did... I'd say that, in my mod, Kane is the only one who can use the 'true' power of the Sword of Darkness, whilst everyone else is stuck using Level 1 Desoul. XD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri May 28 2010 3:08pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's exactly it CajNatalie. I'll run through the code later, I bet it's a real simple fix.

Anyone have a save state of the Kane battle with just him left?

Edit: Actually... I'll just edit him into the first battle and everything else out. Duh...

Edit2: Ok, found the spot in the code where it loads the use range of the sword, taking a look!

Edit3: Uh... it appears to load the max range of the item and then never use it at all... I should be able to fix it though.

Edit4: Hmm, it seems to use the weapon's range instead. Guess they goofed. Or wanted to restrict enemies.

Edit5: It looks like to save processing time, they only did one range check with the weapon's range and didn't do one at all for the item, just keeping the previous results. So that's harder to fix than I was expecting, I'll still probably do it, but not right now.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 29 2010 6:50pm
by Doomblade66
Thanks for at least taking a look at the enemy Weapon/Item use issue I mentioned, Rubix.

When you get a chance to possibly come up with a fix in the Editor, it would be appreciated - but as I noted, it's not a critical issue - more of a "final polish // cosmetic" one which would be "nice to have" eventually. :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 29 2010 7:37pm
by CajNatalie
I just remembered something...
Nova.

Have you ever at any point found his stat information?
You know... so that it would be possible to modify his stats and growths like you can for other members of the force.
I mean, he is playable, after all, with one simple hex edit to make him join. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 29 2010 8:07pm
by rubixcuber
I could be wrong since I've never used that hack, but I'm pretty sure it was a mostly cosmetic thing, that he either used someone else's stats or just used some random data as stats.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat May 29 2010 8:23pm
by CajNatalie
It may be that his stats are drawn from seemingly random data, like you said... and it probably is.
I was just asking, but oh well.

It would make sense... since he starts at Level 4, but doesn't have his Level 4 stats (if you hack his stats to 0's and 1HP, give him Level 3 and 99ex, then level him up, the game provides different values from his starting Level 4 values... most notably his HP isn't off the scale).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun May 30 2010 11:26am
by katgirlfeli
Does Nova actually have a battle sprite or are you just using incorrect data to fill in the blanks of his character sheet using his character portrait?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun May 30 2010 12:42pm
by CajNatalie
katgirlfeli @ Sun May 30, 2010 10:26 am) wrote: Does Nova actually have a battle sprite or are you just using incorrect data to fill in the blanks of his character sheet using his character portrait?

Nova uses a repaletted Kokichi battle sprite (despite the fact that he's of Knight class and therefore does not fly).

I don't use any data at all. The game has the data there already, because like I said...
Nova is a [fully] playable character (he simply never joins, and his stats upon game creation are buggy). :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon May 31 2010 3:20am
by rubixcuber
Just a quick update. I've got the saving working on the maps, but have a couple minor issues I need to work out. Each map has two layers, because of the roof sections you can walk under and such, and I still need to look at how those are linked/stored.

And also, the tiles which you can walk on seem to be stored with the maps instead of being set per tile as I had expected, so I'll have to do something with that as well.

So a short delay on releasing the map editor, but I don't think it should be too much longer.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon May 31 2010 2:23pm
by CajNatalie
W00tsome. I'll just leave this post here so you can post again to tell us when you're done. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01 2010 6:03pm
by rubixcuber
Busy with work today, but a quick update.

Figured out most of the second chunk of the map data.

There's a flag for impassable and door and then a roof group from 0 to 7.

There's one bit that I'm not sure on, haven't seen it used at all, so just going to ignore it for the moment.

The tiles for the second layer come after that, but are stored differently then the rest of the map, so will look into that later.

Update

Got all the data loaded and figured out. Just have to finish up the save routine in the morning and the map editor should be done.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02 2010 2:23pm
by CajNatalie
I have a question regarding map editing...

...will this lead to us being able to modify who joins and when?

P.S. I haven't downloaded the latest version yet, since I'm waiting for the savable version. So if the answer is already out there, feel free to ignore me.
XD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02 2010 3:15pm
by rubixcuber
Who joins and when is more of an event/scripting thing than a map thing.

Right now, it's purely map stuff, just the tiles and whether you can walk on them.

I would like to eventually link the events to their tiles and have you able to edit them from there sure, but that's another project.

Edit: Alright, I can now edit and save the walkable flags and the second layer of tiles.

There's just one more tiny chunk of data at the end that I'm not sure what it is yet and then I'll have it all done.

Edit2:

The map editor has been added.

It can edit both layers of maps, as well as the walkable areas.
Ease of use note: right click to copy a tile.

There are a couple little things I need to do like handling doors and exits and such, but it should be mostly complete.

As always, please back up your rom before editing, and as this is a pretty big update there may be some bugs, so let me know if you have any issues.

Note on graphics:

Since I don't have the tile graphics decompressed, I just cheated and ripped the tilesets. If a map looks garbled, adjust the Graphics 1 and 2 settings (or use Home/End and Page Up/Down) until it looks right. I missed a couple tilesets so some maps may not really look right on any setting.

Edit3:

Fixed a small bug in the saving code, I think that is all working correctly now. There are one or two maps that don't load properly though, so probably another little bug on the loading side, will hopefully have that worked out in a bit.

Edit4:

Alright, looks like it's pretty much bug free now, update to 0.11.3 and have fun

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03 2010 12:39pm
by CajNatalie
Thanks and well done. :thumbsup:

Will download soon. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03 2010 5:41pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, well hopefully we'll get some more feedback. Anyone actually tried it yet?

Working on the event stuff. I have doors figured out and most of the stairs/teleport stuff.

Doors set one bit in the tile flags and then use event 20.

Teleports are events 12 and 16, with 16 returning to the matching 12.
The table of teleports is at 12D8A, 8 bytes each. The second and third byte are the source x,y (event 12) and the 6th and 7th bytes are the target x,y (event 16)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03 2010 6:47pm
by Doomblade66
I wish I had Tech-Lord powers and could actually understand all that Rubix, ;)

12D8A, sounds like the number of attacks of a high-level monster in some RPG - lol. But to you (and the few others here like you) it all means something. It's always been something I've been impressed by.

But thanks for the longstanding work on this project, from all of us.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03 2010 8:22pm
by CajNatalie
Getting straight to work on the basic events I see. :)

...and I think I understood what Rubix was saying, Doomblade... :shifty:

Anyways, I know how much effort it is to make a long-standing project. I have a habit of getting myself in to them and having trouble after a certain point keeping going (usually because I get distracted by another project). I myself am trying to pick up on a project I started about 2 years ago and get it finished once and for all.
So I echo the same thanks as Doomblade said... really... this is great!
Keep going; don't give up! ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03 2010 8:48pm
by rubixcuber
Thanks guys, any feedback on the map editor?

I just added a new version with a tile selector which should make things easier.

I'm hoping to have some of the map events editable later.

I know at least a couple more. Event 100 is used for readable stuff, 112 for chests, 76 seems to be boundaries for wandering AI, 8 for counters and such you can talk to people through, and 128 for the telescope.

4 is used at the gate to Guardiana, thinking it might be related to the cart sequence.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03 2010 10:54pm
by Flygon
I need a method of describing my enthusiasm, unfortunately, a forum post just isn't enough. :excited:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03 2010 10:58pm
by rubixcuber
Heh, good to hear from you Flygon.

Got another update some people are going to like.

Redid the spells learned part. It no longer has the issues with losing entries due to overlap, allows more than one spell per level, and automatically relocates the table so you can add more entries without worrying about space.

Edit: I think I can help with your enthusiasm Flygon: I'm pretty sure those battle sprites we were looking at before are stored almost the same way as the maps, so I can probably edit those now.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 12:15am
by BigNailCow
You jerk. You're going to make me work on the Caravan again aren't you.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 12:26am
by rubixcuber
Haha, well that's up to you certainly. I didn't realize this was a competition!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 2:11am
by katgirlfeli
I can't seem to add new ranges. Expanding the number of ranges seemed to corrupt the game's data x.o Is it just the default location is not valid, and what should I change it to to make it so?

I can change the skills I do know, but I don't want to change the range values of abilities i'm not sure of x.o, and i think i might need more space.

Is there valid location value I can use?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 3:41am
by rubixcuber
Hmm, looking into it. Did a test and it worked fine. And then did another test and it didn't. Will try to track it down... It's not a space issue, some sort of conflict or something...

Edit: Weird... it seems that it works if you save while not looking at the new ranges. Try that for the moment, I'm going to try to track it down, must be some sort of bug...

Edit2: Alright, fixed and uploaded new version. Just a silly bug, thanks for pointing that out. Sorry for the troubles.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 3:59am
by katgirlfeli
It'll work when not using the expanded range types, but wont with it on? I see :o

Well, i'll hold off on modifying too many skills until then. I really plan on making several new abilities and i'm going to need the new areas and range slots x3

Edit: lol you just edited that as soon as I posted :o thanks, will try it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 4:06am
by rubixcuber
No, it was sillier than that. If you were looking at ranges 0-31 and saved it would work, but if you were looking at anything else it failed.

Should work now, I had just copied some code and left something in that shouldn't have been there...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 4:53am
by katgirlfeli
By default, using any of the new ranges does not work.

To make them work, I had to adjust the routine number so that the location in parenthesis equaled "20C1C".

Area 64 needed D89E
Area 65 needed D896
Area 66 needed D88E...

and so on.

While its not that difficult to change, it was just hard finding the first value to use, but continuing from there doesn't seem to be a problem

The game uses other values instead of 20C1C, though i haven't really looked into it. Most skills use 20C1C anyway.

Also, area shapes are ones you made up and had to program in yourself right? Is there no way in the editor (as of yet) to make your own area shapes, or is it a fairly difficult process? I like how the game handles the straight lines you set up though, not only straight but diagonally too lol xD I was looking for other possible areas, which is why i'm asking.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 5:00am
by rubixcuber
All of that, including the handling of the straight lines was hand coded by me. The game didn't even remotely have any support for any other type of areas.

Having editable areas isn't really an option. If you'd like to request something I'll consider it though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 5:12am
by katgirlfeli
Hmm I see. Well I wont ask for anything too difficult. I was brainstorming some new skills while at work that asked for the following (sorry if i'm demanding much x3):

[][][] - A 3 square horizontal area, center being the target. (This is for my Cleave Lv1. Cleave Lv2-4 will use modified areas and attack all enemies in its area)

[]
[]
[]
[]
[] - Similar to your other lines, a +5 one, though since it works diagonally, i might adjust the skill to make use of the diagonals and not need the +5 for the level 4 version ><

A 5x5 and 7x7 Square (big yes, but needed oh ho ho), mainly for EXPLOD, though i really want to incorporate the status ailments in this one, so several enemies may have large AOE sleeps, poisons, and dispels (Dispel prevented you from using Spells right? I might change the name since that's not really "Dispelling". Perhaps MUTE or SILENC.) :3c I also want to consider Shield being a bigger help than in the original game. I might get rid of Muddle, but I only have 4 other skill slots open the enemy can use, so it depends if I need that 5th slot or not.
(Edit: I may not need 7x7, i might be able to use your "Block" area to give the effect I need for EXPLOD. Even with the rounded edges (only with larger sizes), it should perform like I want it to. I just wanted it to be slightly bigger than what was available, but this should work. I'll still need 5x5 for my A.SHWR Skill)


a 3 range + area (1 range would be the 5 square, 2 range is the 13 square, so 3 range would be a 24 one i think :3c)

Most just seem to be larger versions of what already exists (the 3 horizontal block seems to be the only one that's unique, though i wanted something like that for my CLEAVE skill) I was thinking these up while at work, and came home to find out it wasn't really an option as of yet, so i'd either have to work around it or ask for the specific areas x3

lol I remember back last august, I asked for a bunch of stuff to look into and yet still haven't made a modified game with all my selfish asking. Whether you planned on looking into those suggestions already or did because they were suggested, thanks for implementing it all anyway and for working on this as much as you have :D (EDIT: THIS IS NOT ME TRYING TO SUCK UP :damnit:)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 7:16am
by Siel
A straight line of varying length that does not require the targeted enemy to be in the first square of the line: essentially, if it were possible to combine it with a 1-1 range, it'd only be able to target in straight lines and wouldn't require an enemy right next to the user to use (thus differing from the "square lines" available at the moment). It'd be somewhat like "Earth Slash" from FFT.

An area that hits everywhere in the range might be interesting. If paired with a "plus" range, it'd be able to hit in straight lines in all directions. I'm don't know how feasible this would be, but it seems Laser Eye's attack acts a bit like this.

Edit: As for the map editor, would it be possible to have some sort of option to zoom in/out to have a better view of the map?

Other questions:
Why are effects only shown up to #57?
How are the chances of landing a critical hit calculated based on the characters' critical stat?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 1:14pm
by katgirlfeli
Siel @ Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:16 am) wrote: An area that hits everywhere in the range might be interesting. If paired with a "plus" range, it'd be able to hit in straight lines in all directions. I'm don't know how feasible this would be, but it seems Laser Eye's attack acts a bit like this.

Well I did want to make some attacks that did exactly like Laser Eye in terms of how it attacks. Laser Eye picks one monster in its area, then attacks all targets within the area.

Simply modifying "Group" only seems to give the following options:
Targeted Allies, Target Enemies, Targeted Enemies & Allies
All Allies on Map, All Enemies on Map, Everyone on the Map.

But nothing that does "Allies in Range", "Enemies in Range" and "Everything in Range" (Laser Eye happens to use "Everything in Range"). It probably has more to do with the "Area" modifier rather than the "Group" modifier, but what area does it use if it is available? Laser Eye also uses a Specific Area too so its targeting area might also be unique and might not be something easily selectable through changing these options ><

BUT If Areas can be programmed to match the range (in some way that Laser Eye does), then I can simply create an area using the "Block" Range, where each of the spaces around my character, and have it target just 1 enemy (like Laser Eye does), and it attacks all enemies in the Range, but this is only if it can be programmed to do such. With that, you could use the Plus Range to make it attack straight lines from where you are standing... though the problem is, since it attacks all areas, it would attack enemies on all four sides, rather than just the one specific side.

Only thing I can think of to make it work like FFT is for Line Areas to be changed/modified so that the length of the line area shrinks as the target is further away from you so that it looks like this.

F = Force, T = Target Enemy, X = A valid target square that may or may not have an enemy.

F[T][X][X][X]
F[ ][T][X][X]
F[ ][ ][T][X]
F[ ][ ][ ][T]

So here, if you target an enemy next to you, the range still extends 3 more squares, but if you target 2 spaces away, the range only extends 2 more squares, see? The Area is possible to change depending on target (as seen with current line values and targeting diagonals that it will adjust for it), it just has to be programmed in specifically to respond to it I guess.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 3:15pm
by rubixcuber
katgirlfeli:

The 3x1 and the 5 line are fairly straight forward. There's not enough room in the tables to do the 5x5 and 7x7 squares. I could rewrite their system, but I don't really intend to do that any time soon, I'm not sure that many people are using the 3x3 as is.

Messing with the areas is kind of a pain, and I'm a little rusty on how that whole system works, I'll probably do the first two, but no promises on being any time soon.

Siel/katgirlfeli:

Ack! I wasn't really taking area requests! Haha...

Targeting a member but not hitting it is easy. It doesn't require messing with the groups at all. It's the same type of thing I did with the ring effect. The ring effect targets yourself but doesn't effect you. The area need not include the targeted square.

Edit: Oh, but targeting a member and not hitting other members, right. Yeah, not sure what to do about that, it might be easy, I'll look into it at some point.

But you're right about the direction issue, there's no good way to do the line with no enemy in the current system.

The Area 128 used by the laser eye is a special hard coded routine. I could try to mimic it, but I really wanted to work on the map/event stuff before delving into anything like this.

I'm not sure why the Laser Eye only hits one now, but really, because of the stupid AI that's probably better anyways right? I'll look into it probably at some point.

Siel:

I'm not sure what exactly you were asking about 57 effects, but there does in fact appear to be an effect 58. I just goofed and loaded one too few. I'll have that fixed in the next update.

As for the critical, it should translate directly to a percentage. It generates a random value from 0 to 99 and compares, so a value of 10 should have a 10% chance. Then again I don't remember exactly what value it's comparing at that point, might look at it.

Do you want to be able to see more while editing or just get a view of the whole map? I can do a zoom out just to view easily enough, editable is a bit harder and has some speed issues.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 3:27pm
by LordKira
I have a question regarding the map editor. How do you move when part of the map it is showing? I couldn't find out how to move it. Tried all the buttons. One of them moved it left to right but messed up the tiles. Couldn't fix that with Page up/down, or home/end. How do you move around the maps to edit it all?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 3:27pm
by katgirlfeli
Ah well I'll work around using 5x5 then, it is a ridiculously large area, but maybe i wont make a level 4 of that skill then and keep it at level 3, though EXPLOD will have a smaller range than I hoped (especially since the Laser Eye "hitting all targets in range" is hard coded and they probably chose specific x,y values on the map to be affected ;;) x.o;

Using Advanced Areas caused Laser Eye's area to no longer work. Turning it off allows it to work again.

Not sure if you saw my thing about doing a modified version of the Lines we have by adjusting its length as it targets (which i was typing up as you posted) that could work alongside + Ranges to give a proper effect. As you mentioned there's issues with room in the tables so it would either mean adjusting the current lines or not bothering with it x.o

Hmm, its too bad Laser Eye's programming is so stupid Dx It would've been great for several of my skills I had in mind. I'll have to readjust these to work with what is available. Stupid old time programming. Hopefully there is some way in Laser Eye's routine a simple way to allow to hit all targets in a given range, but my hopes for that seem low considering the way this game appears to be programmed Dx

Ring is still an issue though. In order for you to target yourself in any way, you have to use a Group that allows targeting to yourself, meaning the attack has to be able to hit your force members. Even if it doesn't hit the person using the skill, it'll still hit any force members sitting in its area of effect, which is an issue x.o; I am basically looking for Ring that targets yourself, but DOES NOT hit other force members, which would be a matter of adjusting "Groups" rather than adjusting areas, by allowing a "Force" member to be a valid target, but not affecting any "Force" members in the target areas.

I remember hearing that critical chances were based off of 127 rather than 100. So if you put 90 as their critical, it would come out to 90 / 127 or 70% roughly. I haven't tried it out to see if 100 Critical Rate guarantees a critical, or if it is out of 127 ><

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 3:38pm
by rubixcuber
LordKira: Just use the arrow keys. If you're still having troubles let me know.

katgirlfeli: Saw that after I posted, it's possible, might look into it, but really wasn't planning on spending that much time on area stuff right now when there's new data to be edited!

And yeah, I realized that's what you meant and edited my post, not sure if you saw it. I might look into it at some point.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 3:41pm
by katgirlfeli
^^; hehe no problem. There's still a lot to do, its just that adjusting and creating my available skills was the first thing I wanted to do. I'll just have to bypass that for now on the ones I cannot do yet and continue on other parts of the game :3c

(I'm not the creative type in terms of story or map editing >_> that's why map data and editing game text isn't the things i'm excited about (well, battle maps a little bit), and why skills and areas and stuff is, Sorry ;3 ) No worries though, program what your heart tells you to program! PROGRAM TO THE HEAVENS!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 6:03pm
by Siel
Do you want to be able to see more while editing or just get a view of the whole map? I can do a zoom out just to view easily enough, editable is a bit harder and has some speed issues.


I'm thinking about the first one. The viewable area is currently only 8x8, which is pretty small when a lot of the maps are at least 10 times bigger. A view of the whole map at once might make everything too small to edit/view well, so varying levels of zoom might be helpful.

How about adding the ability to drag to place multiple tiles at once?

I've also noticed only town maps were shown. Is making battle maps editable as well planned?

As for critical hits, I tried setting Max's crit stat to 100 and did the first battle a few times. He got 23 critical hits out of 23 attacks that didn't miss (one missed) without saved states.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 6:29pm
by katgirlfeli
If it is out of 100, then it'll make percentages easy enough. The only ones I play on raising the critical chances for are my archers, who'll have a very high crit chance compared to everyone else. Attack, Skills, and Crit Chance I plan to give them will vary between the 3 archers in the game :3c

Edit: Another crazy idea of mine, but one that might be worth asking: Is it possible to edit the "Deals" store so that when a new game is created, it starts with those items? The whole "deals" system is Shining Force 1 is rather useless unless you sold a rare item to an NPC, though Shining Force 2 made it better by it automatically putting in rares you missed x.o

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 6:59pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, that's what I thought on criticals.

Siel, the battle maps look like they are in there to me. Which ones do you think are missing?

Katgirlfeli, The game doesn't have any method for loading anything into the deals. I could write a custom routine or something I guess, but that's going to be lower priority than a lot of other stuff I need to do.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 7:03pm
by katgirlfeli
I see, it was just a random thought. I'd make use of it but its not important or gamebreaking :3c

*Edit: lol forget what I said that was here, i run my mouth too much xD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 7:22pm
by Siel
rubixcuber @ Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:59 pm) wrote: Siel, the battle maps look like they are in there to me. Which ones do you think are missing?

Oh, uh, it seems they are. I didn't try changing the graphics earlier, so I didn't realize it was them when I was skimming through the maps. I also forgot almost all the "battle" maps are used for walking around as well, so I overestimated the number of "town" maps .

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04 2010 10:53pm
by rubixcuber
Medium sized update here, just going to copy from the changelog.

v0.12.0 - 6/4/10

[Help]
* Added a crude help file. Check out help.html which is included in the zip

[Characters]
* Fixed an issue with the automatic relocation of the spells learned.
* Removed some debugging text

[Items]
* Added a dropdown for the use range.

[Monsters]
* Removed some debugging text

[Effects]
* Added one more effect that wasn't getting loaded.

[Battles]
* Fixed an issue with menus running off the bottom
* Added a drop down for enemies

[Classes]
* Added a dropdown for unarmed range.



The help stuff is pretty basic right now, planning on expanding on that, and including some tables of values and such.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05 2010 1:19pm
by Doomblade66
Excellent info - particularly on Critical. I was always very curious about that stat-area. However, I have an additional question or two on that.


By default, Musashi had a "Critical" of 18. This would suggest he Crits almost 1 out of every 5 attacks. This does seem right, on first glance, as most who have used him in the default game can probably attest.

But...what effect, if any, does his Katana weapon have on this ? Initially it was thought that the Katana added to Critical, or gave some kind of boost to the Critical Chance. Does this appear to be valid, or was it always just "rumor/theory" ?


Secondly....what is the point of the "Progression Chart" - boxes associated with Critical chance ? These have the same editable boxes like the other Stats, where you can say "Stat Gains in a Straight-line from bottom left to upper right of box" (paraphrasing here) - or "Stat gains a lot in the early levels, then very slowly or little gain in the later levels" - etc -etc

Does this suggest that the Character does NOT start with the "chosen value" in that box - but only grows up to that level over time ? If so - how much time // how many levels // and what is the progress ?

As an example - look at Max from the Default Game Stats (load a default .bin file into the SF-Edit program).

He shows his Critical stat PRE-Promoted as being CRIT-4 and his POST-Promoted stat as being CRIT-8. In both cases, his "box" displays the Linear, or "from bottom left up to upper right" line progression.


So does this mean Max starts the game, in Battle-1, with a Crit-%-chance of 4%....and that it stays the same all the way till you Promote him (whatever level that is at) - THEN it instantly doubles to 8% and stays that way for the rest of the game ? - OR is the fact it shows any "Progression" rate at all saying that he starts at ...for example ...1% CRIT, and then eventually he builds up to 4% over time, which is the max it can get before Promotion ?

The presence of those "Progress Boxes" just confuses me on this issue.


---------------------
---------------------

Lastly, what does the line of text on the upper-right side of the screen for each character labeled "Deadly Attack Rate" -mean ?

It's shown below Move and above HP and Max HP.

To use Max again as an example, his "right side area" reads:

Class: 0 (SDMN)
Level: 1
Attack: 6
Defense: 4
Agility: 4
Move: 6
Deadly Attack Rate:3
HP: 12
Max HP: 12

. . . . . . etc.



What does this refer to ? Is this another %-chance of the character doing a "Deadly Attack" for double-damage ....and if so, how come ALL the characters in the game have the exact same value for it of "3" - EXCEPT Hanzou (5) and Musashi (7) ? What does that all mean in-game ? :confused:


And if it specifically refers to a Deadly Attack %-chance, than does that mean the CRIT area is only referring to "Double Attacks" like when "Max attacks - Dark mage suffers 12 points of damage. Max's second attack ! - Dark Mage suffers 13 points of damage" - when that happens .... ?


How do these two areas - CRIT and Deadly Attack Rate - work / coincide ?


Any help from the Hex Lords or others who understand that would be appreciated.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05 2010 2:17pm
by rubixcuber
The values on the right are the starting values, what that character would have at level 1. If they have a Deadly Attack Rate of 3, then they have a 3% chance of getting a critical (deadly attack).

But, even though you can't see it, the critical rate is one of the stats that can increase when you gain a level. The promoted and unpromoted crit numbers, reflect how likely it is that the rate will increase when you gain a level.

So, the 4 and 8 for Max just means he's about twice as likely to gain critical rate when promoted.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05 2010 6:06pm
by sulfuroxp
how i can change the map to edit? (i only see guardiana castle)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05 2010 7:23pm
by rubixcuber
Up at the top left where it says map. You can use the plus and minus, or click the number and type.

Also, until I figure out how they link the graphics to the maps, you'll have to adjust the graphics settings in the upper right to make most of the maps look right.


Editor Update

The map editor will let you edit events while Display Events is checked. Also fixed an issue with loading events for a couple maps.

The only event that is fully supported though is 20 which is the event for a door.

I don't have much more to do on the teleport events, but I'm not going to be around later so thought I'd go ahead and put this up.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06 2010 2:36am
by Doomblade66
* Rubix *


- So....you are saying the Deadly Attack Rate value of 3 - listed that way for every character - is what the character starts out with at Level-1. That would suggest that it's 3%

Then explain Mae to me.

The Knight, Mae, in a default game (open up the basic .bin file in SF-Edit) ....shows her UN-promoted CRIT rating as "1". Ooops ! :eyebrow:

That doesn't square with what you said about the Deadly Attack Rate number being what the character starts with at Level-1. How can Mae's Deadly Attack Rate be "3" - yet her UN-promoted Critical stat be "1" ?

-------------

Also...it still wouldn't (even if you are right) - explain what the difference is between a "Double Attack" (far more common from what I've seen in my playthroughs) and a "Deadly Attack" - which is a single attack for roughly double-damage.

Which number/value - Deadly Attack Rate or CRIT - affects either of those types of special attack happening ?

Also...why do only two characters in the game - Hanzou and Musashi - have a listed "Deadly Attack Rate" of something other than 3....with Hanzou having a 5 and Musashi having a 7 ?


What do those values refer to - they can't be what the characters start with at "Level 1" as you surmise, since both characters join you at much higher Promoted levels than that (14 for Musashi and 15 for Hanzou).


---------

And lastly - can you (or someone else who knows from looking at the code) - tell if the Katana weapon that Musashi uses actually has any effect at all on his rate of doing a Critical attack....or is that SOLELY based on his personal CRIT // Deadly Attack Rate - stats ?


Thanks for any info . . .

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06 2010 2:56am
by CajNatalie
Doomblade66 @ Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:36 am) wrote: - So....you are saying the Deadly Attack Rate value of 3 - listed that way for every character - is what the character starts out with at Level-1.   That would suggest that it's 3%

Then explain Mae to me.

The Knight, Mae, in a default game (open up the basic .bin file in SF-Edit) ....shows her UN-promoted CRIT rating as "1".   Ooops !   :eyebrow:

[...]

It GROWS by 1 point over 20 levels. That is what it means.

You seriously didn't figure that out? Sorry to be condescending, but this is surprising (especially as Rubix already answered you)... I mean, Bleu's Critical growth before promotion is 4, and then after promotion is 2. From looking at this, it's easier to question prior assumptions and reach the truth. Basically, 4 before promotion and 2 after does not mean Bleu loses critical hit chance when promoted... but only loses exactly half the likelihood to gain critical hit chance upon leveling up.
Critical hit chance is a stat that GROWS like all other stats (how else is it possible to assign growth types, such as late/linear/etcetera, to CRIT?). So the same way Mae starts with 5 attack, and gains 15 attack, to reach an average 20 attack by Level 20 before promotion, she starts with 3 critical chance, and gains 1 critical chance, to reach an average 4 critical chance by Level 20 before promotion.

Now Hanzou and Musashi have higher Level 1 values than everyone else because they need to take in to account that they're pre-promoted.
So Musashi's 7 is actually due to gaining 4 before his promotion, and Hanzou's 5 is from gaining 2.

Deadly Attack Rate = CRIT

Double attacks and the Katana I can't help you on, though... and we'll have to wait for Rubix, or some other hacker, to discover the truth.

Edit: Oh BTW, if it helps... for testing if Musashi's critical rate is accurate... when you get him, he should have a rate of about 15 (7 + 18x9/19).
By Level 20, he should have a rate of about 25 (7 + 18).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06 2010 3:49pm
by Doomblade66
It's okay Caj....you didn't come across as condescending, you just misunderstood what I was referring to - which is what Rubix had said to me in the earlier post.

He said (without clarifications) that Deadly Attack Rate meant the character had a 3% chance of getting a Critical at level-1.

However...he never clarified (and neither did you - maybe no one knows conclusively yet ? :confused: ) = what the difference was between a Deadly Attack happening, and a "Double Attack" - when your character attacks...then does a "second attack" in the same battle animation screen.

This is an entirely different thing from, "A Deadly Attack inflicts 44 points of damage to the Gargoyle ! Gargoyle is exhausted."

That was a big part of what I was asking ... was Deadly Attack DIFFERENT from "CRIT" in the same way that "Double Attack" is clearly different from a character getting a "Deadly Attack" for double-damage.

---------------

Also...you sound pretty confident regarding Mae - but if you are correct, than frankly - Mae SUCKS in terms of Critical growth / ability. You are saying she starts at 3% CRIT ...and after 20-!!! levels of growth - she will ONLY end up with 4% CRIT chance at Level-20 (Unpromoted) ???

That's pathetically bad growth - for any stat. Also...how do you think it grows ? In other words....does she get the "+1 percentage point in CRIT" - in degrees...or is it all at once when she hits Level-10, or what ?

I assumed the CRIT chance in the game is all "Whole Numbers" - but in Mae's case...going off your interpretation...would she have a CRIT chance of 3.5% when she is at Level-10, Unpromoted- growing to that full 4.0% CRIT at Level-20 ?

I don't know (for sure) that any of us actually knows how that growth functions, which was the point of the questions to Rubix (or others).

----------------

Also - on Musashi's CRIT chances - how exactly did you arrive at that formula for his CRIT-% ?

You said: "when you get him, he should have a rate of about 15 (7 + 18x9/19)."


I get the 7 (his listed Deadly Attack Rate) - and I guess you are taking the 18 from his listed CRIT stat value ....but where is the 9 divided by 19 coming from ? When you get him, he's Level-14 (promoted).....so....what relevance does 9 / 19 have in that ?


----

Lastly - I guess that the Katana probably does NOT have any kind of Crit boosting then - it's probably more a factor of how high a default CRIT rating Musashi was given by the original developers - compared to all the other characters, that made him seem so "unusual" with his pretty-frequent critical strikes.

* - interestingly enough - when I have played with Musashi - it seems he gets a lot more "double attacks" - than "deadly attacks" - whereas with Hanzou it's the opposite (more Deadly Attacks, than double attacks). I wonder if there really is some kind of additional stat that governs which of these will activate when you attempt an attack with a character ? (any character) *

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06 2010 6:45pm
by CajNatalie
Doomblade66 @ Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:49 pm) wrote: It's okay Caj....you didn't come across as condescending, you just misunderstood what I was referring to - which is what Rubix had said to me in the earlier post.

He said (without clarifications) that Deadly Attack Rate meant the character had a 3% chance of getting a Critical at level-1.

However...he never clarified (and neither did you - maybe no one knows conclusively yet ?  :confused: ) = what the difference was between a Deadly Attack happening, and a "Double Attack" - when your character attacks...then does a "second attack" in the same battle animation screen.

This is an entirely different thing from, "A Deadly Attack inflicts 44 points of damage to the Gargoyle !  Gargoyle is exhausted." 

That was a big part of what I was asking ... was Deadly Attack DIFFERENT from "CRIT" in the same way that "Double Attack" is clearly different from a character getting a "Deadly Attack" for double-damage.

---------------

Also...you sound pretty confident regarding Mae - but if you are correct, than frankly - Mae SUCKS in terms of Critical growth / ability.  You are saying she starts at 3% CRIT ...and after 20-!!! levels of growth - she will ONLY end up with 4% CRIT chance at Level-20 (Unpromoted) ???

That's pathetically bad growth - for any stat.  Also...how do you think it grows ?  In other words....does she get the "+1 percentage point in CRIT" - in degrees...or is it all at once when she hits Level-10, or what ? 

I assumed the CRIT chance in the game is all "Whole Numbers" - but in Mae's case...going off your interpretation...would she have a CRIT chance of 3.5% when she is at Level-10, Unpromoted- growing to that full 4.0% CRIT at Level-20 ? 

I don't know (for sure) that any of us actually knows how that growth functions, which was the point of the questions to Rubix (or others).

----------------

Also - on Musashi's CRIT chances - how exactly did you arrive at that formula for his CRIT-% ?

You said: "when you get him, he should have a rate of about 15 (7 + 18x9/19)."


I get the 7 (his listed Deadly Attack Rate) - and I guess you are taking the 18 from his listed CRIT stat value ....but where is the 9 divided by 19 coming from ?  When you get him, he's Level-14 (promoted).....so....what relevance does 9 / 19 have in that ? 


----

Lastly - I guess that the Katana probably does NOT have any kind of Crit boosting then - it's probably more a factor of how high a default CRIT rating Musashi was given by the original developers - compared to all the other characters, that made him seem so "unusual" with his pretty-frequent critical strikes.

* - interestingly enough - when I have played with Musashi - it seems he gets a lot more "double attacks" - than "deadly attacks" - whereas with Hanzou it's the opposite (more Deadly Attacks, than double attacks).  I wonder if there really is some kind of additional stat that governs which of these will activate when you attempt an attack with a character ? (any character) *

Oh yeah, I did say I have no idea about doubles, anyways...

On the subject of Mae. It basically seems that unpromoted characters are not supposed to develop much critical hit chance growth at all. The +1 to her critical I can basically see as a way to ensure that, once promoted at 20, her critical hit chance is 3, instead of 2 (after the 15% reduction). If they had anything more significant, then everyone would be like a bunch of Musashis... he only gains 18 points, and when you get him, he's gained just under half of that (Level 10 on a linear growth does not give 50%, since it is only 9 levels up from 1, out of a total 19 levels to reach 20... 9 is not half of 19), yet still he gets lucky enough times for it to be noticeable.
Hence why the game designers set such low growths for critical hits.

Just as a note, unpromoted Bleu and promoted Gong both have 'late' growths for their Criticals... meaning Bleu doesn't get any more than ~1% extra unless you promote him close to Level 20, and Gong won't get much of his 20% unless he's close to Level 20 promoted.
Unpromoted Zylo, meanwhile, has an Early/Late growth of critical hits... meaning that when you get him, at Level 9, his critical hit chance stagnates for a few levels (until Level ~15).

And now on Musashi... you get him at Level 10, not 14 (you must be confused with a mod?).
Level 10, like I said, is 9 levels up from 1, out of a total 19 levels to 20.
Therefore on a linear growth, he has 9/19ths of his full critical growth of 18.
Making his average join critical 7 + 18x9/19, and rounded down of course (to 15).

Anyways, I must be honest... I'm also extremely curious how the game differentiates the chances of doubles and criticals... if it does at all...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06 2010 9:01pm
by Siel
Doomblade) wrote:  That was a big part of what I was asking ... was Deadly Attack DIFFERENT from "CRIT" in the same way that "Double Attack" is clearly different from a character getting a "Deadly Attack" for double-damage.


I'm guessing the stat is labeled as "CRIT" because it takes less space than something like "Deadly Attack Rate".

Also...you sound pretty confident regarding Mae - but if you are correct, than frankly - Mae SUCKS in terms of Critical growth / ability.  You are saying she starts at 3% CRIT ...and after 20-!!! levels of growth - she will ONLY end up with 4% CRIT chance at Level-20 (Unpromoted) ???


A growth of 1 is the most common for unpromoted characters (14 characters). Everyone except Musashi, Hanzou, and Jogurt only have a CRIT growth of 1-4 when unpromoted. Therefore, Mae doesn't "SUCKS in terms of Critical growth" much more than most of the other characters.

That's pathetically bad growth - for any stat.  Also...how do you think it grows ?  In other words....does she get the "+1 percentage point in CRIT" - in degrees...or is it all at once when she hits Level-10, or what ?

I assumed the CRIT chance in the game is all "Whole Numbers" - but in Mae's case...going off your interpretation...would she have a CRIT chance of 3.5% when she is at Level-10, Unpromoted- growing to that full 4.0% CRIT at Level-20 ?


CRIT might grow like any other stat but just isn't shown in the level up message. However, if that were true, then it would mean that since Mae's growth is only 1 and her stat is less than 5 for the +/- 20% randomization to matter, it'd require her to be at level 20 to get the +1 because before that, her CRIT would always end up being truncated back to 3.

CajNatalie) wrote:Anyways, I must be honest... I'm also extremely curious how the game differentiates the chances of doubles and criticals... if it does at all...


I tried using Max with 100 deadly attack rate in the first battle again. He only got 1 double attack out of 5 attempts (all deadly attacks) which would suggest these two aren't related.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06 2010 9:05pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, sorry for the labeling, I guess it isn't very clear. Deadly attack is what I mean by critical, and the 'deadly attack rate' is the stat affected by the 'crit' growth. It does grow like the other stats, just silently.

Also, I'm pretty sure the double attack rate is static for everything. I had the exact value at some point, might look it up again.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06 2010 9:11pm
by CajNatalie
I'm not sure if it's static... I remember when I've solo'd Max, near the end, in the rare occasions he failed to kill someone in one shot, he'd often attack a second time.
This happened so often in one solo I did that I got the feeling there was some stat for double chance... but maybe I was just very... very... lucky. XD
It is chance after all. :p

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07 2010 3:18pm
by Doomblade66
First of all - great info from you Caj, and good point Siel - I had not considered that (the average CRIT of most of the characters is pretty low - unpromoted).

I wanted to mention I agree with Caj's "gut feeling" on Max and Double Attacks though.

In my Challenge Mod, for instance, I have Max's Promoted CRIT stat at 9, instead of the default 8. Despite that not being a "tremendous" number - Max seems to get more Double Attacks (specifically, not Deadly Attacks) than ANYONE else in the Force. Consistently.

Like...Double Attacks maybe 1/4 total times an attack was directed at an enemy unit. It was amazing.... good ol' Max. ;)

But, this would suggest that what Caj is theorizing (that Double Attack may also be a varied stat, different for each Character in the game), could very well be accurate/true.


It's a pretty big deal in the case of all characters, in any case, since a Double Attack is almost always better than a "single" Deadly Attack. This is because not only do you get two chances to hit the enemy (in case the first misses), but also because one of those Double Attacks (or in very, very, rare cases BOTH) can itself be a "Deadly Attack" - meaning massive (total) damage can be inflicted.

Example:

Max normally does 10 damage to a given enemy with a single attack.

On a Deadly Attack, Max does 20 damage to that same enemy.

On a "normal" Double Attack, Max does 10 + 10 = 20 damage to that same enemy, and has 2 chances to hit given the two "swings of his sword".

The chance exists for Max to get that Double Attack, and have the first of them be a Deadly Attack for 20 damage....AND still have the second attack of the double hit for its normal 10 damage, for 30-damage total.

The very rarest of things would be for Max to get the Double Attack, and have EACH be a Deadly Attack, for a total of 20 + 20 = 40 damage.

--------

So...it's pretty clear the Double Attack is a powerful factor in battle (or can be), even if it doesn't happen that frequently for characters (other than Max !).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07 2010 5:33pm
by CajNatalie
Perhaps there are at least two values for double... one rising value for Max, and one static value for everyone else. o.o

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07 2010 7:20pm
by rubixcuber
Editor update!

If you are using the map editor at all, please update to the new version.

There was an issue with saving where if you edited maps and saved more than once it would corrupt some of the maps.

Also fixed an issue with the door events, those should work correctly now.

And corrected some swapped growth curves in the character editor. (Thanks CajNatalie for pointing that out)

And finally, on new stuff, you can edit the teleports on the map now, which are events 12 and 16. Haven't tested extensively but was able to successfully move and create a couple. Let me know if you have any issues.

Also, note there's a ? value for the teleports. Not really sure what it does, if somebody plays around with it and figures it out let me know!

And for the next update, figured out the chest data, should have that editable later.

Edit: The 12.2 version had a bug with the teleports, so update to 12.3 or better if you have that!

Oh and event 8 is for tiles that can be talked through, and 76 is for tiles that NPCs won't wander onto. 72 is to go to headquarters, but I think there's some other piece of data to go with it.

Will make a dropdown of known events in the next update or two.

Edit2: Got the chests and readable stuff pretty much totally down. Apparently the chests/books etc can be triggered to change based on events, so the editing is a little more complicated than I thought at first.

Edit3: Don't have access to my code at the moment, so decided to work on something else for a bit. Got the decompressed text mod pretty much ready to go, so that should be in the next update, which will be cool.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08 2010 9:35pm
by CajNatalie
I have nothing constructive to say... I'm just happeh. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 4:14am
by rubixcuber
Well, that took a bit more custom ASM than I was expecting, but the text editor has been redone to save text uncompressed.

The text editing should work pretty well now unless there's a bug I missed, but I tested the first chapter or so without seeing anything.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 7:44pm
by katgirlfeli
What were the Max Values for stats?

ATK/AGI/MOV would be 255. DEF was known to go negative after 127. Is HP/MP 65k or 32k max (pretty sure it was two bytes).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 7:52pm
by rubixcuber
HP is 32767. It goes negative after that.

MP is either 127 or 255 not sure if it can go negative.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 8:05pm
by katgirlfeli
Good then. Since DEF is somewhat limited, I can use HP as better form of endurance. Quick/Boost/Slow will probably become useless in my mod since as of yet, their values cannot be changed (so they might just get lowered MP costs as well as some areas instead) >_> but i want to see how far I can take everything else. Will I need 30k HP? I don't think, but as long as it wasn't limited to 255 as well. The only monster in the normal game that I think may have had over 255 HP would be Dark Dragon, so I couldn't be sure. (At work right now, so couldn't check using the editor)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 8:32pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, and only the central head. And not by much. So seems a little odd that they bothered to use two bytes.

It would probably be a fairly simple mod to make it treat DEF as always positive. I might look into it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 9:25pm
by CajNatalie
So wait... did you make a way to remove the 99 cap on the force, and I didn't notice?
o.o

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 10:00pm
by katgirlfeli
Are you saying the game wont give a character any stat ups past 99, even if their growth exceeds it? Did that include when equipped with something? Shining Force II can exceed it no problem, but maybe Shining Force 1 cannot. (My awesome Peter with a natural ?? HP, ATK, DEF and AGI though wanting)

Hm, that would be an issue for sure if it naturally cannot exceed past that point (in which case i'd have to keep both Force and Enemy limits below that, which I guess wouldn't be a problem, I'd just have to make everything proportionately smaller (say 1/2) to compensate.)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 10:18pm
by rubixcuber
I haven't but doing it right now, should only be a 5 minute mod.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 10:24pm
by katgirlfeli
If you are able to find the values that restrict that, then I can continue as is, though I can just proportionately use smaller numbers if you can't.

20 ATK against a 10 DEF enemy with 20 HP is around 2-3 hits to kill
40 ATK against a 20 DEF enemy with 40 HP is still around 2-3 hits to kill.
200 ATK against a 100 DEF enemy with 200 HP is still around 2-3 hits to kill

I just wanted to use larger numbers in the game :3c (though maybe smaller numbers may be the better way to go... we'll have to see xD)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 11:04pm
by rubixcuber
Well, stat caps removed successfully. Will add it to the editor when I get home shortly.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 11:16pm
by CajNatalie
Do you have any idea how MP will function yet?
To be honest, I think there should still be a cap on it... since I'm curious as to what would happen if say... you get 110/110MP, cast Freeze 4, and go down to 100/110MP... would you suddenly have infinite MP? XD

:p

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09 2010 11:44pm
by katgirlfeli
CajNatalie @ Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:16 pm) wrote: Do you have any idea how MP will function yet?
To be honest, I think there should still be a cap on it... since I'm curious as to what would happen if say... you get 110/110MP, cast Freeze 4, and go down to 100/110MP... would you suddenly have infinite MP? XD

:p

Then... give the monster 111 MP >_> so that it'll go from 111 to 101 to 91...

Sounds easy enough to me xD

Even then, its still relative~

A spell that costs 2 MP with a person with 10 Max MP can cast it 5 times.
A spell that costs 10 MP with a person with 50 Max MP can cast it 5 times.

You could either lower your MP costs, and thereby lower the needed Max MP.

Alternatively, you could use a spell slot to make a unique skill for it (i was thinking of one that Level 1 casts Blaze 4, Level 2 casts Freeze 4, Level 3 casts Bolt 4, and use a modified amount of MP as its costs. ) Since an enemy only casts the max level of a spell they know (unless they don't have enough MP for it), they'll use the spell you chose in your unique spell you made x3. After the modifications I planned on doing with the Blaze/Freeze/Bolt spells, i'm not too sure if i'll still do this or not.

Anyway, there are several ways to avoid hitting 100 MP x.o; just work around it I guess :3c

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 12:01am
by rubixcuber
Good point Caj. Well, I just released the update with no stat caps.

Hadn't thought about the MP issue, will need to test that and see. Acquiring infinite MP would be kind of game breaking.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 12:04am
by katgirlfeli
Well, its for YOUR characters, then it may be best to avoid going past 99 MP, and use relative values where it gives the same amount of uses.

I wouldn't want to lose the option for infinite MP either. In which case, we'd have to find out where it says "100 = Infinite MP" and change that 100 to something else :x

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 12:29am
by rubixcuber
Ok, so the infinite MP only triggers if your max MP is 100. I could either... change that value to something else (easy) or remove the infinite mp (easy) or make it skip from 99 to 101 (moderate) or... choose from any of those? Keep MP capped at 99? Something else?

Any thoughts?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 12:45am
by Siel
I'd pick changing the value to 255 (or whatever is the highest).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 1:01am
by katgirlfeli
Changing it to 255 would be best. If you really need more MP than that then i dunno xD How much MP you need is relative to how much MP you use (based on MP costs) so whether this is change or not wont affect me too much since I can adjust for it. 255 would seem best. Perhaps just leave the option under the "Game Mechanics" category and let the user change it for their mod.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 1:02am
by CajNatalie
Yes, set it to the highest possible value.

To Kat, the situation I described is a problem because of the potential of having force members with >100MP. You can't control exactly what someone's MP will be, and you can't dictate what spells they will use.
And, even if you stop their MP below 100, their level ups after 20 can push it up by increments of +1, and without a cap that can take a high MP over 100, where things start going all weird, since you go from infinite to MP to less than infinite... o.O

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 1:40am
by rubixcuber
Hmm, actually it looks like the infinite MP check is enemies only. Don't know if anyone can confirm or test easily, but that's what it appears to be to me.

Edit: Certainly seems like it. Leaving it as it is for now, updated the three digit stat mod to effect MP as well.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 2:14am
by CajNatalie
Actually, I've given Max 100MP in the past, along with 99s in all other stats, and Bolt 4, just for the sake of quickly getting to a certain point in the game when I need to check something... and Max never lost a single point of MP when he cast Bolt, so I can say for certain that it does apply to the force as well.

If you've just tested it, and it's not applying, then I suggest you test it for enemies, too... because my guess is that they've just lost the ability to have infinite MP, also.
D=

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 2:36am
by rubixcuber
Ah, that's it. Changed the mod for the stat cap to 127, with 127 being infinite for the moment.

Will have to look into the negative/infinite issues at some point.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 6:38am
by katgirlfeli
What do you mean by stat cap being set to 127? You mean with equips and stuff, it'll go up to 127 instead of 99? And this includes the 127 = Infinite MP as well?

Also, damn these people and their negative values. You shouldn't set up the variables to use values between -127 to 127 if you don't plan on the values in game ever being negative in the first place :<

Nice finding all these value locations though so quickly.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 6:51am
by rubixcuber
Well, that's the default way of interpreting a byte. They didn't set up anything.

But 127 is the cap on the stat itself. If with equipment you manage to go over 127, I guess it ends up negative. Will have to test and see if they did a check or not.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 7:10am
by katgirlfeli
ATK also appears to be capped at 127. While a Force Member cannot have more than a stat in game due to the cap that's set on them, I gave a Goblin 150 ATK and it came up 0 (and they only deal 1 damage), so yeah :3c

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 3:01pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, pretty much all the stats seemed to be like that, which is why I lowered it to 127 for the moment.

Edit: Ok, so I've been messing with the map chests and readable stuff. I really don't like the way they did it. It's hard to edit the readable stuff in any useful way the way they stored it.

So, I'm planning on rewriting the routines for the chests and books. That's actually pretty easy.

The problem is, I need the data of what's in all of the chests so that I can save it in the new format. Does anyone know of a guide that's specific enough to get a list of what's in most of the chests, or happen to already have a list?

I could write a routine to read the data as is, but that's what I would be doing if I wasn't rewriting the data and it would kind of be wasted work...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 6:14pm
by katgirlfeli
I thought there was already a chest editor in your Editor itself, listing X,Y location and item inside the chest o.x; Can't you reference that, or is that not correct and is supposed to be for something else? x.o If it is, I can't really make a list for you being at work :<

Also, I haven't really checked, but what determines the graphic that is used for an equipped weapon? Is it already in the editor as part of the data that I overlooked or is it not there? I wanted to adjust a bunch of the weaponry and even it out a bit (I plan to remove spears completely, as well as balance the amount of swords and knight weapons there are, while doing some adjustments to already existing weaponry). The problem is I wouldn't want an empty weapon graphic or an Axe where an Arrow should be x.o

Its not really a problem to core gameplay, so i'll probably do the changes anyway, I was simply wondering.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 6:38pm
by rubixcuber
If I remember correctly, the graphics have nothing to do with the items. Hans just always uses the arrow graphics for example. Well, actually probably tied to the class, not the character.

As for the chests, the ones in the editor are just in battle chests. There are another 74 chests that are stored with the maps.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 6:47pm
by katgirlfeli
I see :o

I'm pretty sure weapons do have their own battle graphics, maybe not for bows (but they do use the exploding effect, how is that determined?) But things like the Sword of Light and Chaos Breaker have their own battle graphic (the white and green glow respectively), all Rods have unique graphics to them, etc.

Equipment does have battle graphics for them x.o; just how does the game match them up? I dunno if there's any more weapon data that shows this, but its gotta be there somewhere I would say.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 6:50pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, I suppose you're right. I remember discussing this once before, not sure what the end result was.

I'm guessing it's just indexed by the item number then.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 7:14pm
by katgirlfeli
Ah well, if a Rod ends up looking like a Devil Lance, so be it xD It shall be known as the WIZARD LANCE! o.x (well, maybe i'll replace a lower lance/spear instead and leave the cooler graphics in xD)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 7:48pm
by CajNatalie
I've decided to go chest hunting... and the following are my results for all searchable chests. :thumbsup:

Since they're already listed in your editor, I'm not putting any chests found on battle maps in here, unless the chests in the walkable map are different (eg: Valkyrie chest is empty in the walkable map).

Chapter 1
Destroyed Guardiana

Castle Treasury
Top Middle: Empty
From from top to bottom...
Left: Power Potion, 50 Gold, Antidote
Right: Defense Potion, Angel Wing, Medical Herb

Alterone
Water: Power Potion
Church: Medical Herb
North-West Storehouse: Medical Herb

North-East House Basement
Bottom Right: Healing Seed
From top to bottom...
Left: Empty, Middle Sword, Empty

South House Basement
Bottom Right: Empty
Center: Bronze Lance
Left: 70 Gold
Top Left: Empty

Pub
Note that there is one chest that is already open, which is directly left of the one I'm referring to as 'top'... I'm not listing this open chest for hopefully obvious reasons.
Top: 50 Gold
Bottom Left: Healing Seed
Bottom Right: 50 Gold

Castle
Bottom Left: Empty
Left (near swords on wall and suit of armor): Wooden Arrow
Beside Secret Passage: Healing Seed
Room at Top Left...
Right: 100 Gold
Going top to bottom...
Left: Bread of Life, Middle Sword, Defense Potion

Passage Behind Throne: Wooden Staff
Basement...
Top: Empty
Bottom Right: 50 Gold
Bottom Left: Empty


Chapter 2
Rindo

Storehouse: Speed Ring

Manarina
Monster: Domingo Egg

Chapter 3
Nothing that can't be found in battle.

Chapter 4
Pao I

Bottom Right Tent: Long Sword
Next to Queen: Empty
Right of Chest Next to Queen: Legs of Haste
Leftmost Cart: Bread of Life

Pao II
Bottom Left Cart: Empty
Behind Queen: Elven Arrow
Right of Chest Behind Queen: Steel Sword

Fortress
There is NO CHEST where Kenji is once the battle ends.

Chapter 5
Going left to right...
Castle Left: Shower Cure, Mobility Ring
Castle Right: Bread of Life, Defense Potion, Medical Herb

Chapter 6
Rudo

Top Right Roof
Left: Healing Seed
Right: Holy Staff

Dragonia
Top Right Building: Broad Sword
Youji Rock: NO CHEST HERE

Top Left Building
Ground Floor: Halberd
Roof: Shower of Cure

Chapter 7
Tower of the Ancients

Only Unopened Ground Floor Chest (2nd from Left): Devil Lance
Next Floor Up's Chest: Turbo Pepper
Valkyrie Chest: Empty

Metapha Altar
Chaos Breaker

Chapter 8
Nothing that can't be found in battle, however...
The Kaku-Chan chest IS NOT PRESENT outside of battle.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 10:35pm
by Rusty
You missed a couple of secret items in Chapter 5. A second Moonstone hidden on the left area of the ship in one battle, and the Teppou (I think?) towards the blue dragon head on the ship in another battle. I can't remember which items are in which battles, but I think Teppou is first and Moonstone is second.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10 2010 10:44pm
by CajNatalie
Those are battle chests, which, like I said, are already accounted for in the editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11 2010 11:52am
by Rusty
Oh, dur. Sorry!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11 2010 2:49pm
by rubixcuber
Thanks, that should make things easier.

Going to be out of town for a bit. Will try to work on it some, but updates and such will probably be slow or non-existant for the next week.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14 2010 9:18pm
by tggrng123
Thank you! I love the work rubix! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15 2010 6:29am
by rubixcuber
You're welcome.

Got a new update. The map editor can edit the contents of chests now. The chest event is 112.

Edit:

Anyone try the chests yet? Trying to decide what to do with the readable stuff. The way they are stored isn't very flexible, so probably going to rewrite the code like I did for the chests.

Edit2:

Anyone even here?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22 2010 5:05am
by katgirlfeli
I'm here, though I didn't try modifying any map stuff :< My sister did something to my comp and Windows wouldn't start, so I lost my edit I was working on. All I really did was recolor skills and create a few new ones, but I only just started redoing them over again. I just hadn't made a backup on another computer or hard drive yet only because I just started and didn't expect my sister to break my computer that way Dx

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22 2010 5:14am
by tggrng123
I'll try some of it and I'll let ya know :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22 2010 1:12pm
by CajNatalie
Sorry, I've been taken away by other projects, so I haven't been messing with your editor lately to report anything back. :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22 2010 3:59pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, well when you get around to messing with it, the ability to edit the map chests is done, I know you had been looking for that.

I think I'm taking a break from the editor for the moment though, given the current lack of activity around here. Work on some other projects myself...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24 2010 11:51pm
by JohnKelley23
Just Curious, is there anyway to build a new spell, wanted to bulid a blast spell for the healers

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25 2010 12:44am
by rubixcuber
Absolutely.

Not sure if you're familiar with the editor or not, but I'll explain how to do it.

Once you've opened your rom with the editor, the first thing you'll probably want to do is expand your rom if you haven't. If you're going to replace one of the existing spells, this isn't needed unless you are also changing who learns it, and note there is one unused spell in the game which you can replace.

To do this, go to File -> Expand Rom. There are four choices right now for size, I'd recommend just going ahead and doing 3.0 MB. Just check the appropriate box and click expand.

Then, you'll want to head to the spell editor. The spell editor is the fifth one, with the blaze icon, just click the icon along the top.

If you're not replacing/editing an existing spell, you'll want to check 'Expand Spells' which will double the number of spells in the game from 16 to 32.

There will be a list of spells along the left side. The first thing to do is to name your spell, so click the name of the spell to select it. This will place the cursor at the end of the spell name, and you can type to edit the name.

Next is the icon. In the lower right, there is a crude, paint like editor. You can select pencil/eraser and a size of 1x1 to 4x4. The palette of available colors is along the bottom, just click to select. Then you can click and drag on the icon to draw/erase.

Then you'll want to set how the spell behaves. There are settings for all 4 levels of the spell in the upper right. The most straightforward is the MP cost. Just click on the value and type to set how much MP it costs to cast the spell.

Then the range. There is an icon with a '...' next to the range. If you click this, it will give a drop down of the different range types. The numbers indicate how many squares away the spell can reach, with A indicating it targets allies.

Finally, you'll want to set what the spell actually does by setting the effect. The easiest way to do this, is to match an effect used by something else. You can flip through the other spells to find the number for the effect you want, and also under the item editor (3rd editor) there is a Use Effect for each item which is also the same numbers.

Once you are done with all of the settings in the spell editor, go to File -> Save or Ctrl + S to save those changes. If you want to fine tune the behavior of the spell you can use the Effect editor. It is the 13th editor, with the 4 small icons. Just find the effect numbers you used under the # column and edit the other values as desired and save in that editor.

Finally, if you didn't replace an existing spell, or want to change who learns or at what level a spell is learned, you'll need to use the Spells Learned editor. It is the second editor, with the magic icon.

Select the character you want to learn the spell from the left. To add a new entry, click the plus at the top of the spell list. Then set the level at which that character should learn the spell. Click the corresponding '...' button next to the spell name to select a spell and level to learn. When you are done, just save and you should be ready to go!


Hope that helps someone! Also if anyone has any requests for instructions or tutorials, I think I'm going to try to put together a number of these.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13 2010 9:35pm
by Lobo
I finished reading the last updates and just downloaded the last version of the Editor.

Needless to say again how nice it is, but I'll keep saying: Great work, rubix! :thumbsup:


As I started testing the Text editor, I found I can't use most symbols, like * " [ ] ^ ~ ´. But I realized, at lest the [ ] are in there, though I can't seem to type them.

That, and the fact it's a bit annoyng to type everything there without being able to use simple functinos like CTRL+C / CTRL+V, make me wonder if it would be possible to Export all the decompressed text to a .txt file, so we can edit it more easily and then Import it back to the SF Editor...

It would be great, especially if someday I am translating all the text to portuguese, with all it's ã, õ, á, é, í, ó, ú, â, ê, ô, à, ç to be used.

Do you think it's possible?
And would the game recognize these characters?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13 2010 10:41pm
by rubixcuber
It should let you type all characters that the game recognizes. The set of characters that they use isn't very big.

The [] are just used for special commands. I display line breaks as [Line], etc. Those can be added using the [...] button.

Dumping the text to a file and reading it would be pretty easy. I might do that shortly. The only thing to keep in mind is the small set of legal characters. If you go to the font editor (the big A) you'll see all of the characters the game has.

Support for extended characters might not be too hard. I may look into it at some point.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14 2010 12:18am
by Siel
Since it's possible to add more ranges, will it be possible for effects too?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14 2010 2:44am
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:41 pm) wrote: It should let you type all characters that the game recognizes. The set of characters that they use isn't very big.

I couldn't find the " for instance.
But maybe it has something to do with my keyboard.


rubixcuber @ Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:41 pm) wrote:The [] are just used for special commands. I display line breaks as [Line], etc. Those can be added using the [...] button.

I figured it out, so there's no worry with that. :thumbsup:


rubixcuber @ Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:41 pm) wrote:Dumping the text to a file and reading it would be pretty easy. I might do that shortly. The only thing to keep in mind is the small set of legal characters.

That would be great!

rubixcuber @ Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:41 pm) wrote:Support for extended characters might not be too hard. I may look into it at some point.

That would be even greater! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14 2010 7:06pm
by rubixcuber
Lobo: Huh, you're right, " doesn't work for some reason. Probably an easy fix.

Siel: I don't remember if there was anything special about the effects, but it shouldn't be too difficult to set it up to handle more.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12 2010 2:09am
by Guntzlegend42
Nice work on the editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13 2010 3:05am
by tggrng123
sorry I haven't been on in awhile to report stuff :/ been real crazy at work
anyways the map editor is kinda weird alot of tiles are the wrong tiles and also entering values above 63 in stats on the character editor doesn't work, is there a reason for this? also is it possible to edit the battle sprite of a weapon/item? and adding items?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13 2010 7:16am
by Earl
I'm guessing it's because 63 is a hexadecimal value. 63 hex = 99, which is what stats cap at.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13 2010 8:16am
by tggrng123
oh lol I didn't even think about them being hex xD thanks

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27 2010 5:13pm
by conlius
Curious,

In the future, do you see the possibility of adding an option for editing spell animation sprites? For example, changing the battle animations used for blaze, freeze, bolt, etc... I ask because it would allow people to create completely new spells with completely new animations (instead of making a new spell and using an existing animation).

Your work is greatly appreciated and respected.

Chris

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29 2010 3:47pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:29 am) wrote:
Got a new update. The map editor can edit the contents of chests now. The chest event is 112.

Edit:

Anyone try the chests yet?

Just tried that!

Had some problems to figure out how it works, but then...IT WORKED! :thumbsup:

Got to right click the tile, then edit the item in the box, then left click the tile, then save the rom.
It should work that way.



#####################################################

EDIT 08-30-10:

Now that I tried it a bit more, I'm experiencing a bug that makes the game to freeze once you open the edited chest.
The strange thing about it is that some chests bugs out when you open it from some direction and does not bug when you open it from another. Like bugging from above and not bugging from the left.

Another bug seems to concern the chests with gold coins. I edited one to contain 80 gold coins and, when I got to open it, the message was 'found 0 gold coins'.



#####################################################

EDIT 08-30-10 BY NIGHT:

Still having problems with the map editor...

I decided to make a list of the maps to help us to identify each one and to find the correct Graphics to use. Here it comes:

Map# Tileset1 Tileset2 Graphics1 Graphics2 MapName
0 0 2126 0 3 Guardiana Castle
1 0 3467 0 5 W Gate of Ancients
2 0 1917 0 1 Guardiana
3 0 1917 0 1 Guardiana wrecked
4 0 2673 0 7 Alterone
5 0 2443 0 6 Alterone Castle
6 0 2673 0 7 Rindo
7 0 3646 0 3 Bustoke
8 0 3174 0 10 Shade Abbey
9 0 2983 0 13 Pao 1
10 0 2983 0 13 Pao 2
11 0 2443 0 6 HQ
12 0 2983 0 13 Gongville
13 0 3985 0 8 Manarina
14 0 2126 0 3 Runefaust
15 0 3793 0 9 Circus
16 0 3174 0 10 Metapha
17 0 3467 0 5 E Gate of Ancients
18 653 4269 2 4 Chpt 1 map
19 653 4269 2 4 Chpt 2 map
20 653 4269 2 4 Chpt 4 map
21 653 4269 2 4 Chpt 3 map
22 653 4269 2 4 Chpt 6 map
23 653 4269 2 4 Chpt 7 map
24 653 4590 2 20 Chpt 8 map
25 1251 5012 ? ? Chpt 5 map?
26 1251 4697 ? ? Cave of Darkness
27 1251 5012 ? ? Demon Castle
28 1251 4697 ? ? Quarry
29 1311 6151 0 14 Uranbatol
30 1311 5200 0 17 Prompt
31 1311 5527 0 16 Dragonia
32 1311 7059 0 15 Waral
33 1311 5200 0 17 Rudo
34 1311 5832 0 18 Prompt Castle
35 1311 6420 0 12 Pao Bridge
36 1311 6535 0 19 Tower of Ancients
37 1311 6802 ? ? Ramladu Castle
38 1311 7315 ? ? HQ Ship
39 1311 7406 4 21 CoA / Colossus
40 1618 7615 ? ? Ship Rindo
41 1618 7615 ? ? Ship chpt 5
42 1665 7821 ? ? Under Ring Reef
43 1665 8018 22 23 CoA / Darksol


Had problems to find the correct graphics for maps # 25, 26, 27, 28, 37, 38, 40, 41 & 42.
Maybe the editor is using the wrong tilesets for those maps, but I couldn't find the right ones.

Also, I noted that most of them (26, 27, 28, 37, 41 & 42) are maps that starts with a battle. But the same would apply to maps # 1, 15, 35 & 43 and those are ok with the default tileset from the editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09 2010 6:40am
by the tall guy
Looks like my Shining Force ROM is in .SMD format.

Do I just rename it to .bin to use the editor?

Ok, renaming it didn't work... thoughts?

edit again - Aquired a .bin file.

Now to learn how to use this bastard. My God it's impressive, kudos to the creator.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10 2010 5:07am
by Earl
.smd is interleaved, meaning the data isn't arranged in order.
In a .bin, the data is arranged normally so it's easier to work with.
Why are there interleaved ROMs? That's just the format that some ROM dumpers spit out. I have no idea why they'd do it that way, but there you go.

Er... if you were curious.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10 2010 4:07pm
by rubixcuber
Oh, wow, looks like people are here again. Why does it always seem that everyone disappears when I show up and reappears when I leave?

Anyways, I've got a lot of other projects going on at the moment, but may consider putting some time into this if there's some activity around here.

@Lobo, hmm, I'll have to look at the chest issues, I don't remember running into any problems with them, but admittedly I kind of stopped in the middle of working on that stuff. As far as the map graphics, the issue is with how I did this. Since I haven't completed the graphics decompression, I just cheated by going through the game and using an emulator to dump the tilesets. I apparently missed a couple tilesets as I was doing that and don't have the graphics dumped for those maps. Since you seem to have at least for the most part identified what those maps are I can probably go and grab the missing ones easily enough.

@conlius, well, I had of course intended to eventually make everything editable. But I don't know how much I'll be working on this anymore. I'm just not sure there's enough interest to justify the time I put into working on it...

@tggrng123, As far as the map editor, sorry about that, my explanations have gotten kind of buried. Anyways, because of the way I just cheated to get the tileset graphics, I don't have a good way to link the tilesets to the maps. The tiles are right, but displayed using the wrong graphics. To make it look right, you have to play with the 2 graphics settings in the upper right, and you'll see Lobo was kind enough to make a list of them a couple posts back.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10 2010 8:21pm
by Space King
Earl @ Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:07 am) wrote: Why are there interleaved ROMs? That's just the format that some ROM dumpers spit out.

Further, smd doesn't stand for "Sega Mega Drive", it stands for "Super Magic Drive", the copier used.

I kind of hate it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11 2010 6:38pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:07 pm) wrote: @Lobo, hmm, I'll have to look at the chest issues, I don't remember running into any problems with them, but admittedly I kind of stopped in the middle of working on that stuff.


Well...after trying to edit some more, it seems every chest I edit can only be opened from it's sides (left or right). When I try to open it form above or from below, a blank text window shows up and the game freezes.


rubixcuber @ Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:07 pm) wrote: As far as the map graphics, the issue is with how I did this. Since I haven't completed the graphics decompression, I just cheated by going through the game and using an emulator to dump the tilesets. I apparently missed a couple tilesets as I was doing that and don't have the graphics dumped for those maps. Since you seem to have at least for the most part identified what those maps are I can probably go and grab the missing ones easily enough.


That would be great.
I hope that list I made can help you and the others.



#####################################################


Since my last set of posts, I've been playing and editing (or maybe editing and playing) the rom, specially the battles, and came across some issues.

First, the issue with the chests (can't open from above or from below) I listed earlier;

Second, after the battle in the quarry, in Bustoke, for some reason, that house in the bottom of the town, remained half done. More than that, the husband did not return from the quarry and the wife left the house. Maybe he ran away with some Runefaust beauty and she became bored of waiting. Who knows?

Third, in the start of the battle in Pao Praire, Max can't move! Every time it comes his turn, the Land Effect seems to be 46% and his moving range shadow is only one square: the one he's already standing on. Is he afraid of facing Elliott in battle?

Anyway, as I couldn't make him change his mind, I quit playing (and editing) until I have another idea...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12 2010 2:49am
by rubixcuber
Looking into the chest issues now. Apparently the map changes cause all chests to be unopenable from above and below.

Hopefully it's just a simple bug.

Edit: Ok, got the chest issue fixed. I'm going to go ahead and look at the other two issues before uploading the fix, but if I don't get those worked out tonight I'll post the fix.

Edit2: Uploaded the chest fix. Will try to get the other stuff done tomorrow perhaps.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12 2010 10:41am
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:49 am) wrote: Looking into the chest issues now. Apparently the map changes cause all chests to be unopenable from above and below.

Hopefully it's just a simple bug.

Edit: Ok, got the chest issue fixed. I'm going to go ahead and look at the other two issues before uploading the fix, but if I don't get those worked out tonight I'll post the fix.

Edit2: Uploaded the chest fix. Will try to get the other stuff done tomorrow perhaps.

Thanks again, rubix!

About the other two issues, I have no idea of what has triggered them, as I messed with many things in the editor (characters, maps, battles, spells, weapons...), though I guess it's related either with the map or the battle editor.

As my rom is pretty messed up by the editor, maybe these bugs won't happen in yours.
If that's the case, you just tell me and I'll send you my editted rom.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12 2010 12:32pm
by Special T
Thank you for uploading an new version of your editor, I just wanted to let you know that your hard work is appreciated!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12 2010 8:50pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, Bustoke is fixed now.

The problem was with how they hardcoded some of the events to change the destination of doors and such. They should all work properly now with my modified maps.

To get it to fix your rom, you should just have to make some change to the map (even copying a tile and putting it down on top of itself) and then save.

I'll look into the Pao issue later, but guessing it's going to be the worst of the three.

Edit: I've got a guess on the land effect issue. Did you do any AI editing? And if so did you add more behaviors, or experiment with adding more behaviors? If that's the case you can send me your rom and I'll fix it.

Otherwise... I guess... send me your rom and I'll see if I can figure it out.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13 2010 3:04pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:50 pm) wrote: Ok, Bustoke is fixed now.

The problem was with how they hardcoded some of the events to change the destination of doors and such. They should all work properly now with my modified maps.

To get it to fix your rom, you should just have to make some change to the map (even copying a tile and putting it down on top of itself) and then save.

I'll look into the Pao issue later, but guessing it's going to be the worst of the three.

Edit: I've got a guess on the land effect issue. Did you do any AI editing? And if so did you add more behaviors, or experiment with adding more behaviors? If that's the case you can send me your rom and I'll fix it.

Otherwise... I guess... send me your rom and I'll see if I can figure it out.

I did use the AI editor but I'm almost sure I did not add any behavior, as I was aware of the condition "to add a behavior you must subtract another one for you can't exceed the original number of behaviors".

But I messed with everything else in the battle: the monsters, their location, weapons and spells and the AI, checking and unchecking some boxes without knowing what they would do (I think maybe you should do something about the unamed boxes in the AI editor).

But then, I had done the same in other battles and never had this issue with unmove and land effect.

I'll send you the rom.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13 2010 7:21pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I'm happy to say the last one isn't a bug. Although maybe I should put some limits on some more values.

The problem wasn't with the map but with Max.

In the class editor you have the movement type of SDMN set to 110. And I don't think any types past 7 are used.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13 2010 8:33pm
by Lobo
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I didn't do that! :shock:
Do you think changing some other thing and saving could trigger a bug like that?

Well, very thanks anyway.
Guess you solved all my problems for now and I can go back to work. :thumbsup:
I'll report if something like that happen again.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13 2010 8:58pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, well, not sure what to say about that. I might mess around with it a bit to try to recreate the problem, but first I've heard of it.

I guess just watch out for it and try to let me know if it happens again.

Edit:

Thinking about working on the bookcases and readable stuff next. I really hate the way they implemented it though...

Edit2:

Something funny I bumped into while verifying bookcases, not sure if this was known or not, but new to me:

Image

It's in the northwestern part of Pao, in an area you can't get to without editing the map or using a walk anywhere mod or something like that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14 2010 7:09pm
by Special T
Hmm, that's interesting is there any additional dialog aside from what u posted?

I wonder why they would add dialog to a character that you can't access?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14 2010 7:40pm
by rubixcuber
That's all he says, it's one of the lines a Pao villager says.

And there's a scene involving him joining in Pao that uses him, just wasn't sure about the point of the little hidden room and such, maybe I need to watch that scene again.


On the editor, got the bookcases and such readable, just need to have it rewrite the routine and save the table. Went ahead and uploaded a new version in case someone feels like looking at it before the save is done.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14 2010 8:17pm
by Lobo
I had just downloaded the 0.12.10 version so I guess I'll wait for you to rewrite the routine.
Can you add that option to export/import the text to a .txt file or something like that?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14 2010 8:21pm
by rubixcuber
That's something that's come up before. Why would you want to export it?

The problem is that the game only accepts a small set of characters so I'd have to add a fair bit of error checking to catch newlines and bad characters and too many/too few messages and then it would be possible to have all of the messages shifted, etc.

I'd rather just make the editor's capabilities more powerful, so just tell me where it's lacking and I'll make a change.

Or if you can convince me why the import/export would be necessary I'll do that. But just seems unnecessary to me.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14 2010 8:27pm
by tggrng123
Well the adding of editing animations (meaning not only spells/effects, but also in-battle character animations) and if possible, add the ability to create new characters. Thanks for all your work :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14 2010 8:34pm
by Special T
rubixcuber, you obviously know you're way around the shining force rom considering how far this editor has come in such a short time. Have you ever thought about creating a mod of the game yourself?

Since you know so much about the game and created the editor I'm just curious why you've never made your own hack of shining force 1.... With your hacking knowledge I could see some very interesting possibilities such as

- Team attacks
- Fire emblem style game play (if you die your gone for good)
- Open world map similar to shining force II
- Adding Promotions to Musashi / Hanzou / Jogurt
- Add cut scene (talking scene) in certain areas

It would even be interesting to see the ability to create or remove towns or even add extra battles to certain chapters.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14 2010 8:44pm
by rubixcuber
Heh, well to be honest I just have a lot of stuff to spend my free time on. Whenever I end up doing something Shining Force related, it's generally because someone sent me a PM on here asking something editor related.

I just have too many hobbies I guess. I make my own games from scratch, full 3D games where I do all the artwork, programming, sound, etc. So most of my creative free time goes to that stuff.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15 2010 1:06am
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:21 pm) wrote: That's something that's come up before. Why would you want to export it?

The problem is that the game only accepts a small set of characters so I'd have to add a fair bit of error checking to catch newlines and bad characters and too many/too few messages and then it would be possible to have all of the messages shifted, etc.

I'd rather just make the editor's capabilities more powerful, so just tell me where it's lacking and I'll make a change.

Or if you can convince me why the import/export would be necessary I'll do that. But just seems unnecessary to me.

heheh
Don't know if I can convince you, but the fact is I find the text editor a bit slow to work on. I can't click in the middle of a line for example.

I could work faster on a .txt file. And also I feel I would be able to work on it anywhere, even without the editor.

But then, if you think it would be a waste of time, just go for something else, as there's plenty of work to be done. The graphics editor for portraits, sprites and battle animations would be awesome! :excited:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15 2010 4:52am
by rubixcuber
Well, as I said, I'd rather add any features you find lacking. I'd be more than happy to add the ability to click in the middle of a line.

I just feel it will be easier and more beneficial to make the editor better than to have import/export on the text.

If you really think it could be beneficial I guess I could have it with a warning or something and not do any error checking, that might be a decent compromise.

Update

Anyways, new version out. The readable event (bookcases and such) saves now.
Also added a dropdown of known event numbers to make things a little easier.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15 2010 10:23am
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:52 am) wrote: Well, as I said, I'd rather add any features you find lacking. I'd be more than happy to add the ability to click in the middle of a line.

I just feel it will be easier and more beneficial to make the editor better than to have import/export on the text.

If you really think it could be beneficial I guess I could have it with a warning or something and not do any error checking, that might be a decent compromise.

Either improving the editor or making it with a warning will work fine for me.

And now, as I am back to work into editing battles, one thing I would greatly benefit from (and everyone else who will use it) is improving the AI editor.
Can you write some sort of text beside each box, so that we have a clue of what it will do as we check/uncheck it?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15 2010 2:02pm
by rubixcuber
I can't say I disagree with you on the AI editor, but you know probably about as much as I do as to what any of those boxes do.

The 8 boxes determine what triggers that particular behavior, as it says, but I have little to no idea what they mean, other than they generally refer to areas somehow defined on the map. That's an area I wouldn't mind finding more about if I start working on this again...

As far as the text import/export how do you plan on doing the special commands? As is I guess you would have to type them exactly as they appear in the editor, [Line] and such. Also, handling of quotation marks and such might be tricky. I'm going to go ahead and add the text import since it's simple, but I have a feeling it won't be as useful as you think.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15 2010 3:48pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:02 pm) wrote: I can't say I disagree with you on the AI editor, but you know probably about as much as I do as to what any of those boxes do.

The 8 boxes determine what triggers that particular behavior, as it says, but I have little to no idea what they mean, other than they generally refer to areas somehow defined on the map. That's an area I wouldn't mind finding more about if I start working on this again...

Oh, I thought you knew more about that.

Maybe Doomblade does as he messed a lot with it in his Challenge Mod...
Can he help on this subject?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15 2010 5:27pm
by rubixcuber
I'm inclined to say no on that, but I suppose you could ask.

I'm pretty sure that it literally is that at least 7 of the 8 checkboxes correspond to areas defined on the map. So I'm not sure what else to say about those.

I do have some more information about the other values that I guess I could include.

I think there's a little more info floating around in the thread, but basically all that's known for sure is that Action 0 with Values indicating X and Y means that they go to that square and Action 1 with values both 255 is to move and attack when you get near.

Update

A couple changes for the map editor.

You can now click and drag to place tiles/events etc.

Also I used Lobo's table and set up the Graphics settings so most of the maps should look right without having to play with settings, and it will save the settings per map if you change them.

Bug Note

I didn't realize talking to NPCs uses the same routine as reading bookcases. The readable saving was breaking all conversations. It's fixed in 0.12.14 so update if you're still at 13. Saving a map will fix the errors.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16 2010 12:45pm
by Special T
Thanks for the quick update and bug fix, I'm downloading the new version of the editor now. I'll let you know if I run into any oddities.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16 2010 6:57pm
by tggrng123
^_^ we finally got a really nice map editor!!! I believe your program even far exceeds the Caravan editor for SFII ^_^ off-topic: what the crap?! my avatar disappeared, now I have to use another one... I already had it reserved but apparently someone else took it.....

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17 2010 3:13pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:52 am) wrote: Update

Anyways, new version out. The readable event (bookcases and such) saves now.
Also added a dropdown of known event numbers to make things a little easier.

Just downloaded the 0.12.14 version.
This Editor becomes cooler everyday! :thumbsup:

Messing with the 'readable stuff', I found out some texts the matches with some items, like those messages about a broken weapon/ring and the messages shown when you use items like the Power Potion or the Turbo Pepper.
Is there anyway, in the Items Editor, we can add or change the text lines associated with each item?

And more specifically, is there a way we can create an item that boosts Maximum MP, like the Bread of Life does with the Max HP?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17 2010 3:42pm
by Siel
And more specifically, is there a way we can create an item that boosts Maximum MP, like the Bread of Life does with the Max HP?

The standard stat-raising items have the in-battle effects 53 to 57, which happen to have "4" and "190" under the "routine" columns. Their "status" column is the only place where they differ. Having 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 in that column seems to correspond to ATT, DEF, MOV, AGI, and HP.

Therefore, I guessed a "5" would make the item add MP, but that did not seem to be the case. What happened was a message box saying "But nothing happens". No MP was added, but it seemed the target gained 5 ATT instead. Using the item out-of-battle actually just had the item's normal effect.

I then tried other numbers, but it seems that having anything higher than 5 makes the game crash as soon as a target is chosen.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17 2010 7:09pm
by tggrng123
Well I'm not too sure about this, but in speculation, I would believe that the in-battle effect of an item is a different event/effect than out of battle. Just my speculation,don't know much about rom hacking, just know a bit about games, I create em as well, I also am the head programmer for a private ragnarok online server, anyways, that was my thought on it. Rubix would know.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17 2010 8:19pm
by rubixcuber
Unfortunately, I think the answer is no at the moment to both of those. Perhaps in the future though.

I think the messages are handled by the effect routines which means they are hard coded and not in a table or anything easy like that, but I might take a look at it.

As for the MP item, I think the best thing to do would be for me to add in another value for status which corresponds to MP. Would take a little work, but wouldn't be too bad.

And I'm pretty sure items have only two events the on use and on attack.

Oh and tggrng123, try unregistering and reregistering your avatar. That happened with mine too, and possibly everyone it had looked like.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17 2010 8:42pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:19 pm) wrote: As for the MP item, I think the best thing to do would be for me to add in another value for status which corresponds to MP. Would take a little work, but wouldn't be too bad.

Well, if you're gonna give it a try, maybe you should do the same on equipped effects, like the rings.
It would be nice to have more options, like an item that raises Critical when equipped, or an item that recovers MP per turn when equipped, or anything else.

Maybe we could use some of the accessories from SF III as a goal.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17 2010 9:26pm
by tggrng123
I tried :/ it said it was reserved to someone else, I emailed him and apparently he has had it since before I've been here, but has been inactive for the past 2 years until recently. it's weird.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19 2010 11:46pm
by rubixcuber
Well, decided to work on some decompression stuff again. Made some good progress on the routine that loads the graphics for the tiles, so should be able to at least read those soon.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20 2010 1:27am
by tggrng123
Awesome :D ^_^ this may turn out extensive enough to 'create' our own Shining Force games, rather than messing with RPG Maker XP and it's RGSS, I tried making Shining Force styled games before with that, but gave up every time, due to me having lost the access to the projects several times because of hardware failures (I still have the hard drives though but nothing to access them yet .

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20 2010 6:46pm
by rubixcuber
Got the decompression routine written, just going through some debugging now, hopefully we'll be able to read some of the graphics shortly.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20 2010 10:20pm
by Chaiman
Hello everyone!
At first I must apologize about my english - It's not my native language! Sorry in advance!

Secondary:
I've tested this editor for a while and found something bad about it.
I've use editor with ROM that have name "Shining Force (U) [!].bin".
I've expanded it using this editor (latest version) to the size of 3 Mb and did some changes like changing monsters in first battles, adding spawns and giving Max a new spell (aсtually, I'm planing to do challenge hack plus add some secret places and adding some new magic) . But when I'm in a battle the game randomly freezes while loading battle animation. Not totally, cause music still plays, but the screen is pitch dark. Once the priority of emulator (and it's Gens Surreal 32) rised up this begin to happen a bit seldom, but still it happens.
Am I doing something wrong?

Third:
And what I've discovered else is that map #11 (headquaters at the basement) can't be remodelled. I mean, of course you can edit the sprites, but the "walkable" parameter of each tile doesn't change anything. In fact, all tiles at this map are shown as walkable in the editor. But can we step on the walls without some sort of game genie code? I'm sure we can't.
And so did the "Event flag". Is this a game's special place? Or it CAN be actually changed? Just try to move cursor to the place of stairs which let us get out from HQ. There's no events on that tile shown in the editor. But stairs DID work.
And it seems that the game knows the coords from which you've entered the HQ and in all maps this coords are different. Maybe the game searches for the matches? And, if not found, freezes up?

As a test to know if HQ really can be modded, try to make this stairs work:
Image

And more about HQ.
You can see a 72nd event on the stairs which lead you to the HQ.
But after I've created stairs to HQ in the church on map #2 and #3, I can't use it.
I mean, that my stairs DOES took me to the HQ, but when I'm try to get the hell outta there I can't! The game freezes just like at the attack sequence - I have music but gain no picture...

Fourth:
The event system. I can't fully understand it.
Let's take event #12 for example.
It's a teleport event, where I can specify where I want to go (map # as well as coordinates). The game itself has many teleport events already setted up.
But when I'm try to add my own teleport from the training ground (the game starts there) to the tile right after the entrance of HQ it all goes wrong:
1. Entrance coordinates are (9,16) and I try to teleport to (9,17).
2. As i stepped on the tile with teleport event attached Max appeared at the right map but at the position of... I can't even tell where! sometimes teleport works like it should some times not (Once i've found myself in the air and the other on a bush).
3. What's worse after that changes was made, teleport of tower in upper right corner of Guardiana castle takes me OUT of Guardiana and leaves Max at the chapter's 1 world map! I can sware I didn't alter the event number of that tile.
4. And the last, but certainly not least about the teleport event. How can I take apart one teleport from another? When I'm creating a new teleport, let's say from map 3 (ruined guardiana) to map 10 (second Pao's location) the event work perfectly.
But then I want to create another one - from Pao back to Guardiana it's start to glitch (wrong coordinates, do nothing e t.c.). Offcause, i can simply go out from the town of Pao and I'll be on the first chapter's map. But that's not the point.
When I'm changing coordinates of teleport event so that i can set new one on a new map, the coordinates, I've entered the second time, for some strange reason replacing coordinates of previous teleport. And it does it randomly. The coords I've entered are replaced with some other values...
Let me explain:
- set a teleport from map 2 (11,2) to map 10 (9,13).
- set a teleport from map 10 (9,13) to map 2 (11,2).
- step on the teleport at the map 2 and... You're on the map #10, at Pao, but in (26,15)!
Ok. Let's check our way home.
- step on the teleport on the map #10 and... You're on the map #2 but where? I'll say where - you're in (52,1)!

That's all on today, I'm going to go sleep for now... Any help will be thankfully apreciated. :)

A little manual would be usefull, if anyone can make it. :blush:

The Editor is sure great, my best regards to the author! ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21 2010 12:02am
by rubixcuber
Sorry to hear you've been having troubles with the editor Chaiman, hopefully I can help you out.

Secondary:
That's the first I've heard of that problem. Were some of you changes made using an old version of the editor?

To help, I would probably either need a copy or your rom or a comprehensive list of the changes you've made. Otherwise I would suggest getting the latest version of the editor and try applying your changes to a clean rom.

Third:

You can change the tiles for map 11, but the rest does seem to be handled specially. I'm guessing that's because of how you can link back to different maps and how the sprites change based on who's in the party. Right now there's no way to edit the walkable/events for that map.

And the event 72 uses a special table. It is not currently possible to add new HQ entrances.

Fourth:

There definitely seems to be something wrong with the teleports. Nothing you're doing. Will look into it now.

Edit: Ok, teleports should work properly now. Sorry about that. Surprised no one else has said anything...

Just download the new editor version and it should be able to create teleports properly now.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21 2010 1:21am
by Doomblade66
In regards to the black-screen during battle thing he mentioned...I can add that its what happened back when I tried messing around with the Battle / Palette Editor for the enemy monsters.

The goal was to be able to paint-by-pixel - if possible to get the Runefaust Assassins and Archmages to have cool Black - and Crimson mixes of clothing (ditto for the Royal Guards) - to reflect their unique, Elite, nature ...but the Palette editor for SF-Edit has never been....very stable (thus far), IMHO...and I found when you changed colors....then tried to enter an attack animation...the screen would go black and the game would freeze.

So..everything seemed okay up until the point you selected one of your guys and tried to "Attack" one of the modified enemies...or they moved and selected one of your guys to Attack you...... then everything would freeze up. It totally ruined one of my game-mod-files....since I foolishly saved over those changes, without a backup (this was in my early stages of creating the Challenge Mod - so it was a noobie mistake, I admit :blush: ).

Anyways...I wouldn't mess with that until Rubix can attest to it being glitch-free (at some point in the future).


--------

Also - someone else (Lobo I think) - had asked me for my experience / info on the various "Enemy Flags" - AI - codes that you can give them.

As Rubix said, we still don't "Know" - officially - what each box does.. other than that they tell the enemies how to act / react - to Shining Force movements - based on their basic numeric coding. X-Y - info.

Basically...the main reason many Shining Force enemies are so "Stupid" in the default game, is because the default AI that the designers gave them feature "No Movement" - coding.

In other words...if you put in for X and Y info (on the enemy AI editing section of the SF-Edit program) - the same X-Y coordinates that you start the monster standing at....the result is the monster WILL NOT MOVE - at all from that spot. He will attack enemies that come next to him, or within range if he's a Mage or Archer-type enemy...but he will not move to attack you, if you are 3 or 4 squares away, even if he normally could reach you with his listed Movement value.

So that's the fault of the dumb designers.

In the Challenge Mod, I attempted to make the game more interesting (where enemies are concerned) by giving them "Smart AI" - and allowing them the intelligence to try and move towards and attack your team, when you come within their "Threat Range" (2x- their listed Movement value).

To do this - for any enemy - you use the AI-coding 1, 255, 255 - the infamous "Rubix Balbazak Fix" - since it was the first major AI innovation Rubix discovered...as a way to make Balbazak finally Move and Attack - instead of sitting where he starts the battle in the default game (which Designer thought THAT was a good idea ? :eyebrow: Please explain your rational ! ;)).

You can do it, as I said, for any enemy you want to exhibit "smart" AI movements. Also note that, if you want, you can give the enemies "Move To" orders...by making their X-Y numbers on the edit screen, something DIFFERENT from their "starting X-Y numbers on the map".

Example - if Skeleton has Starting X-Y of x-10, y-10 ...and you (on the Edit Screen) - give them x-20, y-20 ....etc... when it comes to his turn on the battle map...he will try to move 10-spaces to the right, and then 10-spaces down (so basically he will move Diagonally down and to the right - on the actual Map). This is only marginally useful, I've found...since after they reach that location, they will adopt "No Movement AI" - from that point onwards.

The only time I used it effectively was on the Quarry Battle in Chapter-3, against the Master Mage and his Priest bodyguard. You need to give them (or keep them with) their Move-To - AI since if you don't, the game freezes if Max can reach the opening of the Cave where the Lunar Dew is - without you killing the Master Mage off. So you get him to move directly in front of the Cave Opening - so he MUST be killed to proceed - making sure the battle doesn't glitch up. But other than that, I didn't have any real use for it. I'm only mentioning it for accuracy's sake.

Anyways....hope that info is helpful to you (Lobo) - and if you have any additional questions, please ask.

:thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21 2010 1:38am
by Helldhaz
Doomblade66 @ Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:21 am) wrote: To do this - for any enemy - you use the AI-coding 1, 255, 255 - the infamous "Rubix Balbazak Fix" - since it was the first major AI innovation Rubix discovered...as a way to make Balbazak finally Move and Attack - instead of sitting where he starts the battle in the default game (which Designer thought THAT was a good idea ? :eyebrow: Please explain your rational ! ;)).

It's logical in terms of the story at least - if Balbazak moved from where he's standing, you could in theory just walk past him and get on the ship. Translating that into the battle obviously doesn't work too well.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21 2010 11:30am
by Chaiman
Rubixcuber, thanks for your help!
All changes i made before are done with v0.12.14 - latest on that moment.
But ROM... I've done so many things to it, while testing the editor abilities,
that easily could miss something. (But that what I never change the palletes of any tile or sprite is true).
So just a few minutes ago I've downloaded version v0.12.15 and start it all over again.
I can't send you a ROM I'm editing right now, but instead give a direct link on where in can be downloaded.
That's a 7z archive with many versions of the game. I've unzipped a ROM, called "Shining Force (U) [!].gen" from there.
As far as I know, the ROM with *.gen extension is in *.bin format actually.
So, I renamed it to "Shining Force (U) [!].bin" and open it with your great editor.

Here's the list of changes I've made to the ROM:
1. Expand ROM.
2. Go to spells and expand their number. Do not actually add one, just makeit possible. Save the ROM.
3. Go to mechanics and tick this checkboxes: Percent Damage,Three Digit Stats, Stat Cap to 127. Save the ROM.
4. Go to ranges and tick this checkboxes: Relocate Table, Advanced Ranges, Advanced Areas. Save the ROM.
5. Go to text and press the button "Decompress Text". Save the ROM.
After this I have a 3 Mb ROM (let me call it "clean") prepared to be edited.

After doing all this changes I run an emulator (Gens Sureal 32 v 1.76 girl)
ang go in to the battle. No freezes.

Then I went on battle editor's tab.
(By the way, are those pictures really tabs? I mean VCL tabsheet or tabcontrol component from Borland Delphi or C++ Builder. Or did you use some other IDE?)
There I've chaned 1st battle setting:
1. Replace Rune Knight with Bowdier (makes it really look and feel like boss).
Position and AI hadn't been affected.
2. Replace 1st and 2nd Goblins with Dark Dwarfes, leaving their positions and AI the same it was.
3. Changed positions of Goblins 3, 4 and 5 to (9,12), (7,8) and (11,13) respectively.
4. Set number of spawns of Gblin 3, 4 and 5 to the value of 3.
5 Save the ROM.
This could seem too hard, but even withiut tweaking party stats it's possible.
And I'm planning to do some later.

Hmm... Now it's works perfectly! :)
Even th Goblin on the wall cant be reached untill it gets down to the floor neither with weapon nor with a spell! But Goblin CAN attack you from above.
I found this pretty cool - you MUST let him go down, so you too can reach him with your attack. Or have a healier to heal (such a quibble) troop who prevents Goblin's movements :)

Now on with the second test part: teleports :)
As I wanted to test it at the very beginning of the game, I've done this:
1. Create on map #2 at pos (13,2) teleport to map #0, pos (11,26).
(Btw, what does mean an "?" parameter?).
2. Save the ROM and test it.
The teleport takes me to the world map of chapter #1!
Whats more, I can't enter the Castle at all. Instead I found myself on the...
world map of chapter #1! Again.
Well, lets cool down and try to think logicaly. At this point of the game HQ
isn't available yet. Maybe thats the point?
Let's check it!
I've created the same teleport at the same spot on map #3 and removed teleport from map #2.
Then I have to play through 2 battles to test new teleport.
Well, things remain the same - I'm out of Guardiana once I tried to step on a teleport or go to the Castle Guardiana by foot.
And even removing the teleport from map #3 cant fix that thing. There's no way I can see the King now.
So, is this the end?
No, cause I manualy fix standard teleports from map 2 & 3 to map 0 and,
once again, Max can go to the Castle.
I'm not giving up and create teleport from map #2,(13,2) to map #0,(11,26) and back. And now it works despite I've reset the game and try it right after Lowe go spy on Varios, when a soldier normally won't let you in HQ.

Thanks, Rubixcuber, for fixing teleports! ;)
The reason it glitched at the first time is still unknown, but it's good to know that it can be fixed.

And as afterwords...
Could you make full import of the magic?
'Cause now it only exports and imports basic spells, not the one, that can be created after expanding spells table.
[HR]
I could write it shorter, but maybe my experience will be usefull for someoner else here. Just treat this as a bug report ;)

PS: Oh, I really must be a writer instead what I am )))

Added later:
Just think about some improovement. Is it really hard to expand weapons table?
So we could not replace but create our own weapons.
For example, not replace Short Sword but create new Poisoned Short Sword or smth like that. Maybe not only weapons, just add 16 slots for whatever item. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21 2010 1:29pm
by tggrng123
Hey ya better remove the link, it's against rules. Anyways, no you can't simply change the extension. That definitely would cause some problems. Get a bin file, or PM me.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21 2010 10:21pm
by Chaiman
@tggrng123:
Hm... I guess you've never try to compare *bin and *gen files... starting from some point all *bin roms on that site were renamed to *gen, as too many programms handles with *bin files.
Link is removed.
But thinking about formats I concluded that you may not believe me. I did compare roms. Same.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21 2010 11:02pm
by tggrng123
They are I guess, although there must've been somethin different.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22 2010 8:53am
by Chaiman
Offtopic:


WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23 2010 12:31am
by tggrng123
wrong, and smd is a super magic drive rom image...of which all the data tables are different....a bin does NOT= a gen file, the data didn't change because the file wasn't a gen before...it was a bin, then they renamed it to .gen... which kept data intact, however being that, this hasn't happened unless you have edited the palettes.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23 2010 10:58am
by Chaiman
Oh... You really don't want ro read...
smd is a super magic drive rom image

I've never told that SMD stands for Sega Mega Drive. That's first.
bin does NOT= a gen file

I've said that all ROMs (where I got them) were in BIN format someday and then was renamed to GEN. That's two.
this hasn't happened unless you have edited the palettes

I'm never was going to change palletes, but since you say this, I've tried. And all work perfect!
So what's the point of argue? You did not read my posts carefully, just speak on and on and on...
Are you a Troll?
I'm don't really think you are.
So, try to notice what I'm truing to say on the topic.
I don't know where I can find a GEN ROM that wasn't BIN before. Maybe you do, and thus gives you an aproovement that you are right.
Maybe.
I barely think we're visit the same resources. And on the my favorite one allmoust everywere was said that what I was told to you here - GEN once was a BIN. NOt the format, but the name of files, like you were saying:
because the file wasn't a gen before

If you have some link to the sites where real GEN files can be found, please, PM me, so I can watch and finally see it ;)
Uh... I don't want to argue, you see? I hate to argue... And I don't think that offtopic argue will be useful for anybody else. If you still think that I'm wrong, then I'm not be able to achieve some results, 'cause of my arrogancy and stubborn.
Instead I'd like to speak about editor.
We have some things to disscuss about the editor, 'cause Cubixruber (sorry if I've miss spell your nick) could't be here all the time we need his aid.
What does mean "?" symbols on teleports or effects?
How can I make Max to walk behind some sprite? (Yeah, the last one, actually, was mentioned in help file, but after changing the tile to be "above" it became above other tiles, but Max's sprite is still shown above. )
Have you ever caught a glitches in te editor?
And so on, and so forth...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23 2010 3:17pm
by tggrng123
Where do you get off insulting me? Seriously I was simply stating that alot of what you were saying was not right. Anyways I said that it has been a past issue in earlier versions with the palette editor. Anyways, enough of the off-topic.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24 2010 5:28pm
by rubixcuber
Sorry for the lack of updates, been in the hospital.

Anyways, I'll try to address a couple questions, but not going to read all of that exchange...

Chaiman:

Unfortunately adding more items/weapons is almost impossible. The game only uses 6 bits to store items. And that means you can have 2^6=64 items. There are 63 items in game and the 64th is a special one used to indicate no item. Adding more would involve rewriting all of the game code anywhere items are referenced... I could certainly do it, but it would be a lot of work and I think I have more important things to finish on the editor first.

The spell import/export can be expanded to include the extra spells easily enough. I'll try to remember to do that.

Generally if there's a ? in the editor it means that I have no idea what that data means or does. Or at least only an incomplete idea.

Feel free to play with those values, but note they may likely crash things.

The images are 'tabs' but they aren't a control. I didn't use any controls in the project. Somewhat out of laziness, somewhat out of liking to do everything myself.

General:

Going to try to pick up the graphics decompression again. I think I'm close, just not quite sure what's going wrong.

Image

It kind of looks like you can make out bits of mountain, hills and trees, but something is not quite right... Hopefully just a simple bug.

Edit: Think it might be working now, just using the wrong palette:

Image

Edit2: Success! We have graphics decompression!

Image

Well, that's a major success for the editor, that means we can start editing actual graphics soon, but I think I'm going to take a break, at least for the rest of today.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25 2010 12:51am
by Special T
Wow that's a great break through, this is a really good news.

Are all graphics able to be decompressed or just map graphics?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25 2010 2:49am
by rubixcuber
The other graphics are at least very similarly compressed. If you check the forum I put up a poll on which graphics to get editable first, so go vote!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25 2010 6:54pm
by Chaiman
2 Rubixcuber:
Cool news about spells and what's more - about graphics decompression! :thumbsup:
Generally if there's a ? in the editor it means that I have no idea what that data means or does. Or at least only an incomplete idea.

Can you then make a hints to popup above that "?" symbols? Maybe with additional option in a main menu? smth like "show guesses" ;)
If you have a distant guesses what are those options do - all the users can aproove or dissaproove whether you were right or not. Or make all "?" a words, but witn different format - color or smth.
As for those who may complain with "I'd do this and that, but it doesn't work at all!"...
I suggest there could be an additional messagebox saying that (for example) red label means that option is only guessed. Anyway that's for you to decide ;)
Somewhat out of laziness, somewhat out of liking to do everything myself.

That's what I could easily understand. :)

You're doing great thing with editor! It's offtopic, but you were saying you have some other progects... So are there any places I can see one or another? It's very interesting.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25 2010 6:56pm
by Doomblade66
Out of curiosity....what country are you from Chaiman ?

(like...what Language are you most familiar with ?)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25 2010 8:10pm
by Chaiman
Once I'll say it wouldn't your opinion about me become worse?
I'm from Russia. Now anyone can hate me for it. But people can't choose where to be born. So, ofcourse I'm best at russian language.

I'm rather good in english as well - at least there's nothing i can't understand here or at another english err... ( -writing? ) sites.
As for another side - how well could you understand me... that's up to you for say ;)
I haven't much practice speaking to natives. Games were my teachers. Not so many rules I know, just rather big speaking vocabulary, so it can be awfull :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25 2010 8:17pm
by Special T
Chaiman @ Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:10 pm) wrote: I'm from Russia. Now anyone can hate me for it. But people can't choose where to be born. So, ofcourse I'm best at russian language.

Where you're from doesn't matter it's you're personality that counts :)

Wow... I feel like a parent when I say that lol. But I know Russian members at other forums and they seem like decent enough people, so I wouldn't worry about it. Anyway sorry to go off topic.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25 2010 8:38pm
by Chaiman
Just forgot to say.
All of you know the very first shop in a game - guardiana shop. and there is a chest in that shop.
Well, on map #3 I've make it accesible and put into it power potion. But when I'm open it in a game it was empty. Any suggestions?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26 2010 6:30pm
by rubixcuber
To be honest, I'm not sure that there are any ? values currently that I know anything about. I'd love to say I was holding back, but I'm really not. Feel free to try to figure out what they do and then I'll label them!

Also... Где в России вы живёте? Я плохо говорю по-русски...

As far as the chest, I'm not able to look at it right this second. The first thing that comes to mind is that there are two versions of that map, one being destroyed. Did you test the same one you changed?


Editor Stuff

I've successfully been able to load the battle sprites using the decompression routine I wrote. The main question now is how to go about editing them.

I know it's been said before that people seem to want to be able to open them in photoshop or paint or something, but I really don't think that's the way to go.

I'm inclined to do what I've seen other editors do and just dump the data in it's raw format and have something like YY-Chr to edit the image data. There's the issue of palettes either way though. The graphics aren't really tied to a palette and in some cases are valid for multiple palettes, and as such I don't really have a good way of providing the proper colors for the graphics.

Anyways, just brainstorming right now really. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27 2010 6:55pm
by Chaiman
Feel free to try to figure out what they do and then I'll label them!

Okay, here I go ))

Also... Где в России вы живёте? Я плохо говорю по-русски...

Я живу в Новочеркасске - это маленький город (около 250.000 жителей) в Ростовской области. But if it is easier to you to express in english - I'm understand all that was written here. The other side of a coin that if you couldn't sometimes understand me - then I'll try to write more... err... understood-able? :blush:

Did you test the same one you changed?

Yes, the same. It's map #3 that I've change and test. Map #2 remained as it was, so I just couldn't come near that chest on map #2.


Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Redrawing can be done in internal editor like editing item's sprites. But with option to import to and export from external graphics editor.
As for palletes...
As far as I know there's 64 colors that can be shown at the screen at the same moment by sega's gpu. So an image with 256 colors be just fine for storing exported picture. Include from 1 to 4 palletes, tuned in your SF editor, and save the file in to "bmp" palletted format and here it is!
All that's remains is to use some graphics editor that can "understand" palletes in pictures - photoshop, acdsee, photoimpact, paint.net and alikes.
This is how I'm see it ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27 2010 7:32pm
by rubixcuber
Ah, haven't been around that region. Been in the Petropavlosk area, which is just outside of Russia, but a fair bit east of you.

Changing the chest contents worked for me. One thing to note with the map editing that I should probably make more clear again:

Right clicking a tile copies its values. Left clicking places the current values.

If you right click a tile and change the values, nothing will happen unless you left click to place those values again. I'm guessing you didn't actually change the chest contents.


The problem with external graphics editing other than with something like YY-Chr is that each sprite uses a specific 16 color palette. I don't have any way of enforcing the colors when exporting, and if someone changes the colors, or uses a blur or soft brush or anything that introduces slight color variations, the import won't work. If I just dump the raw data and force editing through a tile editor, it will be impossible to break it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27 2010 9:37pm
by Chaiman
I'm guessing you didn't actually change the chest contents.

I was sure I did... But when I've tried to do this again - all works like you said.
Guess I haven't clicked it actually...

I don't have any way of enforcing the colors when exporting

Oh... each sprite...
Does editor knows about palletes that each sprite uses? If does, then is there an opportunity to apply some sort of "nearest color" filter when importing an image back to editor? Get a pixel color and change it to the one of the sprite's pallet's color - nearest one. It could take much time, through... then maybe work not with pixel, but with the scanline from bitmap?
Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't complain if a tile editor must be used in order to preserve graphics format, just seek some other methods...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28 2010 9:35pm
by KBH
Hey I have a few questions on things it doesn't appear the editor lets you do. But I thought I'd ask in case I missed something

Is there a way to let the player choose where each character starts each battle? The reason I ask is because sometimes Healers bad move gets compounded by always starting in the back (as an example but I'm sure people can think of plenty of reasons this would be handy)

Can I make an item bag -- a common repository so that units don't have to hold extraneous items? This is probably one of THE biggest hangups I have with the original game, item management.

Is there any way to put in extra shops, maybe even a hidden shop? I could see how this would be difficult to implement though.

Is there anyway to control how often double attacks happen (and, incidnetally, does anyone know how they're calculated in the first place?)

Can you change options for the Priest? For instance, what if I wanted to remove the Revive option altogether or limit the Promote option to being used only once after each battle?

Lastly, is there a way to fiddle with vulnerabilities? For instance, Diane says that with her arrows you don't have to worry about fliers (paraphrase) but say I want to make fliers have 50% weakness to anti-air for instance?

Oh yeah..one side question: the only characters can use a ring are the ones who can equip it, right?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28 2010 10:45pm
by rubixcuber
Got a new version of the editor. Right now just a tease really, added a new section for graphics, but not editable yet, just views some of the sprites.

Will be getting to the editing soon though.



KBH: I'm pretty sure the starting squares are tied to the order of the members. If you go to headquarters and rearrange your force, you should be able to do what you want.

The item bag is possible, but would take a lot of work and adding new screens and such. I'll put it on the to do list, but probably not until after we can edit most things that are already in the game...

Shops shouldn't be too bad, I'm just not sure at the moment how they tie an npc to a shop. I'll try to take a look at it sometime soon.

Double attacks are a fixed rate if I remember correctly. It should be pretty easy to change that, so I might add that later.

Priest options are not likely to be editable anytime in the foreseeable future, sorry.

You can edit vulnerabilities. They are by class/monster and are part of the class editor which uses the promotion icon and is about halfway over, next to the tile editor (bush with grid). But as far as I know, the game didn't implement a vulnerability to arrows and such, just magic and a general evasion rate.

And yes, rings are only usable if you can equip them.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 2:57am
by Special T
I know the graphics editor isn't done yet but I noticed that Jogurts Frame 2 & 3 are both messed up for some reason?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 3:07am
by rubixcuber
It's because he doesn't have them... I need to hard code to ignore those or something...

Somebody with decent pixel skills want to take a shot at making attack frames for him? Jogurt just wiggles instead at the moment.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 3:30am
by Special T
rubixcuber @ Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:07 am) wrote: It's because he doesn't have them... I need to hard code to ignore those or something...

Somebody with decent pixel skills want to take a shot at making attack frames for him? Jogurt just wiggles instead at the moment.

Thanks I didn't realize that.

I'm no good at pixel art (or art in general) so I won't be of much help :(

I've seen other members here (mostly in the SFII forums) that mod art to look pretty decent, so hopefully someone will step in to help out.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 4:13am
by KBH
rubixcuber @ Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:45 pm) wrote: Got a new version of the editor. Right now just a tease really, added a new section for graphics, but not editable yet, just views some of the sprites.

Will be getting to the editing soon though.



KBH: I'm pretty sure the starting squares are tied to the order of the members. If you go to headquarters and rearrange your force, you should be able to do what you want.

The item bag is possible, but would take a lot of work and adding new screens and such. I'll put it on the to do list, but probably not until after we can edit most things that are already in the game...

Shops shouldn't be too bad, I'm just not sure at the moment how they tie an npc to a shop. I'll try to take a look at it sometime soon.

Double attacks are a fixed rate if I remember correctly. It should be pretty easy to change that, so I might add that later.

Priest options are not likely to be editable anytime in the foreseeable future, sorry.

You can edit vulnerabilities. They are by class/monster and are part of the class editor which uses the promotion icon and is about halfway over, next to the tile editor (bush with grid). But as far as I know, the game didn't implement a vulnerability to arrows and such, just magic and a general evasion rate.

And yes, rings are only usable if you can equip them.

Thanks for the quick response! I did know that you had already implemented editing of magic and evasion vulnerabilities.

Seems like the spellcasters should get some kind of a magic evasion bonus..although since the endgame enemies aren't really magical I guess it only matters a little..

PS do you know what the break % is on usable items..since its just a toggle in the editor I'm guessing there is a standard chance for all of them to crack/break?

PPS would there possibly be a way to give a character a spell that repairs items during battle?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 5:57am
by rubixcuber
Another little update. Figured out a bit more about how the frames and palettes work and added the enemy sprites.

Edit: And a second update, added viewing for the weapon sprites, backgrounds and platforms, though have some palette issues with the weapons and platforms. Going to switch over to editing now I guess.

KBH: You're full of ideas, aren't you?

I don't know where/what the break chance is offhand, but that's another easy one. I'll try to add that once I'm done with the current graphics stuff.

The repair spell's a little more complicated. It can be done, but not high on the list right now. I'll look into it once I finish some other stuff.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 6:38pm
by conlius
rubix,

Is there any way to expand the number of effects? I was thinking about doing something a little...different. I'll explain

Instead of having Heal1-4 (single target) and Aura1-4 (with 5 panel and 14 panel depending on rank), I was thinking about splitting them up into 3 spells...

Heal (ranks1-4 do 10, 20, 30, 40 healing respectively to single target)
Cure (ranks1-4 do 7, 14, 21, 28 healing respectively to 5 targets)
Aura (ranks1-4 do 5, 10, 15, 20 healing respectively to 14 targets).

This way...you would have a variety of healing spells at various ranks...and could give the healers specialties (so one doesn't completely trump all the others!). I would have to work on the ranges and actual values but you get the idea. I am thinking of doing the same for blaze, freeze and bolt (single target, medium target, and massive AOE for all of them). Problem is, I would have to remove other effects to make this work. Any ideas?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 6:59pm
by rubixcuber
I don't think that should be too hard.

I'll put that on my list of things to do as soon as I finish the graphics stuff I'm working on.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 7:06pm
by conlius
Awesome! :thumbsup:

I'm not in any rush anyways since I am still in the planning and/or experimental phases of my patch.

Thanks!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 7:19pm
by KBH
Great idea con, that is a pretty awesome spell progression plan

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 7:25pm
by rubixcuber
I was taking a little break and looking into the double attack stuff.

Looks like it's an 8% chance. It also looks like it would be really easy to implement triple or more attacks. I think I'll add a simple multi attack system.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 7:32pm
by KBH
rubixcuber @ Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:25 am) wrote: I was taking a little break and looking into the double attack stuff.

Looks like it's an 8% chance. It also looks like it would be really easy to implement triple or more attacks. I think I'll add a simple multi attack system.

COOL, but I thought I rememebered reading in a thread here that multi attack % was tied to level somehow?

The note I have says that its a complicated formula but amounts to base 8% plus 1 % per 2 levels gained.

But thats still ambiguous since "levels gained" could only count in your current class (so promoted level 20 would count as 19 or 20 levels gained) or it could use the games method of counting (ie X/20 counts as Level 30 no mater when you promoted) or it could count them all (10/20 is Level 30, 20/20 is Level 40)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 7:43pm
by rubixcuber
Well, unless there's a separate function somewhere for some reason I'm looking at the raw code for the game now and this is what it's doing:

MOVEQ #$07,D1 (Load base chance of double attack. 7 means it will occur on 0-7 or 8% chance.)
MOVE.w #$0064,D6 (Initialize random number, 0x64=100 means we want a number up to 100)
JSR ($000002E0) (Gets random number and stores it to D7)
CMP.W D1,D7 (Now we compare our random number [D7] to our chance [D1])

So, there's nothing adding anything to the chance of success between loading it and comparing to the random number.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 8:05pm
by KBH
rubixcuber @ Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:43 am) wrote: Well, unless there's a separate function somewhere for some reason I'm looking at the raw code for the game now and this is what it's doing:

MOVEQ #$07,D1 (Load base chance of double attack. 7 means it will occur on 0-7 or 8% chance.)
MOVE.w #$0064,D6 (Initialize random number, 0x64=100 means we want a number up to 100)
JSR ($000002E0) (Gets random number and stores it to D7)
CMP.W D1,D7 (Now we compare our random number [D7] to our chance [D1])

So, there's nothing adding anything to the chance of success between loading it and comparing to the random number.

Thanks for confirmation on that, my opinion was that it was a fixed chance as well since I hadn't noticed higher levels equating to more double attacks but I do recall reading an explanation here and assuming someone had delved into the code to find out

Thanks man!

Interestingly, since double attacks seem to be independent of whether the attack hits or misses (ie you can miss and then attack again), this basically offsets the 8% fixed dodge rate I guess.

Will be very cool to have multi hit attack options though (Gong!)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 8:28pm
by rubixcuber
New version is up.

Added the ability to change the double attack rate and to enable triple or greater attacks with a falloff percent.

That is, if there's 8 percent chance of double, and the falloff is 2, then after getting a double attack there will be a 6 percent chance of a triple. And if you get a triple, a 4 percent chance of a quadruple, etc.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 8:30pm
by conlius
Well if you can make multi-hit attack abilities, you could create dual wielding characters using lower damage weapons (so their total damage times 2 hits results in something balanced).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 8:35pm
by KBH
conlius @ Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:30 am) wrote: Well if you can make multi-hit attack abilities, you could create dual wielding characters using lower damage weapons (so their total damage times 2 hits results in something balanced).

Right, I plan to make special Offhand weapons that are technically tagged as rings that you can equip for characters like Musashi.

Multihit attacks will be insanely cool with Archers or Hanzou (throwing stars)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 8:41pm
by rubixcuber
New version yet again. Added the item break chance to the mechanics editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 8:45pm
by KBH
rubixcuber @ Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:41 am) wrote: New version yet again. Added the item break chance to the mechanics editor.

You're amazing dude

Did you determine what the base % chance to break was?

EDIT: this is a different question but are there more than one type of curse? For instance the Devil Lance freezes characters up but the Demon Rod mostly seems to cause minor damage as a curse effect. I can't remember if Demon Rod has ever caused a freeze up or not right off.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 9:11pm
by rubixcuber
New version! This is almost getting repetitive! You can now add more effects with the effects editor.

Base break chance is 25%, you'll see it when you open the rom and check the value.

Not sure offhand on the curses.

I think that takes care of most of the easy requests, going to go back to the graphics stuff for a while.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 10:13pm
by conlius
Awesome, I'll start messing around with some new effects and spells.

Just wondering, is it already possible to apply poison as a spell or is it hard coded as a debuff? Just curious, don't want you to think I am asking you to do anything else! If it was, thinking I could potentially add a single target attack that applies a heavy poison (does no direct damage...basically just spell that costs no MP). And possibly have a weaker aoe based poison (to make detox have a reason).

Looking at the editor I assume this is not possible. If it isn't, just ignore and I will forget about the idea :D

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 10:26pm
by KBH
conlius @ Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:13 pm) wrote: Awesome, I'll start messing around with some new effects and spells.

Just wondering, is it already possible to apply poison as a spell or is it hard coded as a debuff? Just curious, don't want you to think I am asking you to do anything else! If it was, thinking I could potentially add a single target attack that applies a heavy poison (does no direct damage...basically just spell that costs no MP). And possibly have a weaker aoe based poison (to make detox have a reason).

Looking at the editor I assume this is not possible. If it isn't, just ignore and I will forget about the idea :D

I think its possible, as discussed on page five of this thread near the bottom:

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... 145&st=100

I haven't got around to it yet, but I'm intending to make Weapons that do Poison, Sleep, and Dispel.

The way the editor is set up it looks like you can make Poison as nasty as you want. I kind of like the idea of my Vicars also dabbling in Poison personally.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 11:01pm
by rubixcuber
Yep, here's a copy of my note on it from before:


Ok, I know how to make a poison spell!

In the effects table, make an entry that is:

129 44 7 255 255 0 3 108

Actually, if you keep all the values but vary the third one (the 7) you can get a bunch of different effects.



Basically, that creates a spell which causes a status effect, and change the 7 to get a different effect.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 11:04pm
by conlius
Yeah that seems to work perfect.

What I wanted to do was have various different poison damagelevels (the game probably can't handle that though since poison is the only dot). Basically, have a single target poison that does high damage, and a multi target that does low damage. However, the game would never support that because poison is a status just like any other status (muddle, boost, etc).

I will probably give the ghoul boss in the monestary a heavy ranged poison aoe so that he can't be exploitable from afar.

Edit: I just created a new cure spell after adding an additional row to the effects. I set the damage to 8...and it only healed for 7 (tried multiple times). Curious, is that normal?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29 2010 11:44pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, poison's damage is tied to its status effect which is just a single entry with one damage setting.

When I add a status effect editor at some point that might be possible, but not at the moment.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 2:54am
by Special T
I don't know if saw this or not but Flygon made a post in the Shining Force Challenge-Mod *RELEASE THREAD* (3rd post down) regarding how to edit the level cap.

Level cap (Promotion):
000229D1
NOTE: This changes the level of which the level advances to the cap.

000229D7
NOTE: This is the level cap.

00022C45
NOTE: This is the level level-up messages stop appearing.

You want all three addresses to be the same.


When you get a chance (when you're done with the graphics editing), would this be something you could add to the editor? As far as I could tell I couldn't find this option currently in the editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 3:29am
by rubixcuber
Sure, I put it on the list.

Also, I know I said I wasn't going to mess with this and was going to do graphics stuff, but I went ahead and added a no reviving mod to the mechanics section.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 4:47am
by Flygon
I'm glad to see someone else has finally taken note of the cap. :)

I'll have to track down the non-promoted cap at some point, it's going to be fuuuuun relearning how to trace the 68k code. :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 4:59am
by rubixcuber
Heh, I can do that if you want. I've gotten extremely adept at it.

The no revive hack took a lot less time than I thought. Quickly learned how it manages dialogs and menus and messages and such.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 5:20am
by Special T
QUOTE (rubixcuber @ Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:29 am)Sure, I put it on the list.

Also, I know I said I wasn't going to mess with this and was going to do graphics stuff, but I went ahead and added a no reviving mod to the mechanics section.
Thank you, and the no revive mod was a cool bonus :thumbsup:

I'm curious as to what you modded the priest to say when you try to revive someone, well i guess it's time to pop in a rom and test it.

QUOTE I'll have to track down the non-promoted cap at some point, it's going to be fuuuuun relearning how to trace the 68k code. blush.gif

I'm glad you mentioned that because I thought that was the code to fix pre and post promotions caps. I should read more carefully :blush:


*EDIT*

My take on the revive mod

WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 6:02am
by Earl
KBH @ Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:32 pm) wrote: COOL, but I thought I remembered reading in a thread here that multi attack % was tied to level somehow?

That would have been deadly (that is, critical) attacks.
Although I don't remember if the rate of increase is flat (or random), or if it varies by character.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 6:19am
by rubixcuber
Heh, well, do they actually use that message anywhere? I didn't add that, I just saw that in the messages near the other ones and decided to use it.

I was going to just remove it, but that seemed odd and more difficult and when I saw that message I almost had to use it.

Flygon: Good to see you around again.
WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 2:28pm
by Flygon
Image
I'll be sticking around proper when I can get the Year 12 exams out of the way, the fact that I'll be getting an Everdrive will also be quite an enhancement.

I aint releasing a hack if it won't work on my Mega Drive, you hear?

I'm very excited that the editor has reached such a complete state, it'll be shining up there brightly.
Summer always seems like a warm time of year for the editor to be taking strides... must be because I have more free time during summers, in Australia anyway. ;)

Oh, by the way, I highly suggest you get in contact with nineko regarding his Cube/idWare music porter, I've used it with success before (It turns out the issues I was having is due to the banking system that the driver enforces confusing the heck out of me) and can merrily say that it is a very good thing, if not highly unfriendly to use currently. The fact that the drums are different between different games doesn't help (This leads to the Dark Dragon's moan being used as an instrument in, say, the Shining Force II Gizmo Battle theme).

He even made a post about it in this topic.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 3:07pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, once I finish the graphics editing it will be pretty close to 'complete' in a sense.

The two biggest areas left will be scripting and sound I guess.

I'm pretty confident that if I wanted to I could get a full music editor built. But right now, other than switching songs per map or whatever, I don't think that's at the top of the list. I think I want to get the scripting stuff done first, so we can actually change the story/progression of the game.

I've got a couple little things I'm going to mess with today and then I think I'll sit down and finish the compression.

Update

New version is out. Added the unpromoted level cap, and moved the promoted level cap to its own value instead of lumped with the stat cap.

You'll probably want both the stat cap increase and the three digit stats to go along with it.

I need to make a couple of minor modifications to the 3 digit mod, the level in the status bar is still only 2 digits.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 5:05pm
by Special T
Flygon @ Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:28 pm) wrote: I'll be sticking around proper when I can get the Year 12 exams out of the way, the fact that I'll be getting an Everdrive will also be quite an enhancement.

I saw that flash cart but was a little worried it was a scam because you can't pay via paypal. I was worried they would take my money and run.

Is there any advantages of that compared to the Neo Myth Flash Cart, or the Mega Cart, or the MD Pro 64M Flash Cart?


New version is out. Added the unpromoted level cap, and moved the promoted level cap to its own value instead of lumped with the stat cap.


Thank you! I'm testing it out now :-)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 5:51pm
by rubixcuber
Welcome! Working on some cosmetic changes to finish it up. I managed to fix the status bar, but the HQ screen needs to be changed too.

I think those are the only places that display level... Promotion screen? I wonder if that's any different from the HQ list.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 6:01pm
by Special T
Maybe I did something wrong, but I changed max and ken to level 3 and changed the unpromoted cap to 3 and promoted cap to 5 but when I went to the church to promote them it said no one was able to be promoted. Any idea why?

The cap worked though because they couldn't get more than 99 exp on level 3.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 6:15pm
by Chaiman
Wow! Haven't been here just for a couple of days but the improvements are awesome :) :cool:

So, about the editor:
1. I can't see sprite of Joghurt... there're 10 sprites with different palletes, but he's absent. On the previous page was said that 2&3 frames are messed up. I wanted to implement some sort of a pixelart, but I cant see Joghurts 1st frame. Maybe I've miss something?

2. I can't tick "tripple+attack" checkbox. Is it possible to apply that for now, or it's going to be implemented? Once again, am I missing something?

3. Is it difficult to make it possible to choose which pallete to use from the available ones? There's option to do that with enemies. Could it be done for the characters?

4. Is it possible to increase number of enemies in each battle?

5. Is it possible to increase nuber of items that are for sell in the shops? Currently it's from 3 to 6 items to choose from. Could it be changed to at least 10? Maybe with blank lines if someone doesn't want to have exact 10?
And what do you suggest about Manarina's shops? They has their own place amongst other shops but there's no space to add at least one item...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 6:20pm
by Special T
Chaiman @ Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:15 pm) wrote: I can't tick "tripple+attack" checkbox. Is it possible to apply that for now, or it's going to be implemented? Once again, am I missing something?

I'm having the same problem with the tripple attack box.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 6:59pm
by rubixcuber
1. I had it set to only 10 force sprites while I was doing some testing, it should now
go through all 35.

2. Whoops, broke the checkbox when I added the new stuff.

I reuploaded it with those fixed.

3. I'm not sure how it chooses palettes for force members, I think it just increments through them, so right now that's not possible.

4.Increasing number of enemies in battle is on the todo list, will get it done in the near future probably.

5. That's on the list too, right now no, but soon hopefully.

Special T: That's just the max level you can reach promoted/unpromoted. The level at which you promote is totally separate.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 7:40pm
by Chaiman
Thanks for the fast reply!
What Joghurt's sprites must look like? Attack? Alright then, It's easy ;)

As for editor itself, there are number of things with the sprites:
- sprite 14, frame 6 is Zylo instead of Adam. Zylo is next ;)
- sprite 19, frames 6 & 7 are promoted knight, which is next too.
All other displaying as it should :cool:

Edit:
Is it possible to make class names more than 4 letters long?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 7:51pm
by rubixcuber
The sprite overlap shouldn't hurt anything, but I'll look into it when I have a moment. It's just thinking those sprites have more frames than they do.

Edit: Also, new version. Mechanics editor now updates the character list windows to handle three digit levels.

Image

On class names: Well, I think it might be technically possible, but it's only set to display 4 letters everywhere and they only gave room generally for 4 characters on the various screens, and there's probably only 4 characters of memory for it. So it would probably be a lot of work... And especially with just squeezing the third digit of level numbers in there's not much room in some places.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30 2010 9:44pm
by Special T
rubixcuber @ Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:59 pm) wrote:Special T: That's just the max level you can reach promoted/unpromoted. The level at which you promote is totally separate.

Opps I misunderstood, I thought if I altered the unpromoted level it would also change the level you were able to promote at :blush:


Edit: Also, new version. Mechanics editor now updates the character list windows to handle three digit levels.

That doesn't really look that bad. I don't think a lot of people will level that high, but it's good to have the option just in case.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01 2010 12:56am
by Flygon
Special T @ Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:05 am) wrote:I saw that flash cart but was a little worried it was a scam because you can't pay via paypal. I was worried they would take my money and run.

Is there any advantages of that compared to the Neo Myth Flash Cart, or the Mega Cart, or the MD Pro 64M Flash Cart?

The Neo Myth is $200US+ for the SD based edition, so that's already way out of my range (As much as I'd like to use the 7 megabytes of RAM it offers), the Mega Cart is limited to 3 megabytes of ROM size and lacks usable SRAM, and the MD Pro 64M requires a parallel port to be usable, as well as being 100% outclassed by the similarly priced Everdrive.

I can confirmed that Wiz owns one quite happily, as well as quite a fair few Sega-16 members. The hardest part will he harvesting a spare Mega Drive cart case.
On class names: Well, I think it might be technically possible, but it's only set to display 4 letters everywhere and they only gave room generally for 4 characters on the various screens, and there's probably only 4 characters of memory for it. So it would probably be a lot of work... And especially with just squeezing the third digit of level numbers in there's not much room in some places.

The game can actually handle having post-4 character class names, I experimented with that a while ago. You're not wrong in it not correctly displaying them in some circumstances, however.

I'm a bit disappointed no one seems to care about nineko's music porter, is this something I'm going to have to make a proof-of-concept hack for? :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01 2010 1:43am
by rubixcuber
Well, I mean, it wouldn't necessarily crash or anything, but did you verify the extra characters weren't overwriting other data in ram? That's a tricky thing to test without looking at the trace. Either way, I'll look at it carefully if I decide to do anything, but I really think the bigger issue is that there's no room to display the longer names anywhere...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01 2010 2:54am
by Special T
Flygon @ Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:56 am) wrote:I'm a bit disappointed no one seems to care about nineko's music porter, is this something I'm going to have to make a proof-of-concept hack for? :(

I know next to nothing about editing music and I doubt I would be able to find any songs that fit in the game very well, but I like the idea and I hope it gets included in the editor eventually for others more talented than myself to use.

I can confirmed that Wiz owns one quite happily, as well as quite a fair few Sega-16 members. The hardest part will he harvesting a spare Mega Drive cart case.


Thanks for the info, I may pick one up now that I know it's legit.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01 2010 4:11am
by rubixcuber
Ok, the graphics compression is working. I just need to have it relocate the pointer banks and palettes as well and we should be able to save graphics.

Somewhat amusingly, I can now load and save but not edit. Guess I need to get that added.

We'll definitely have graphics editing within the next day. Just depends how much time I spend on other stuff...

Fine tuning the compression, will update here:

Uncompressed - 645120 bytes
Basic Compression - 230497 bytes
DL Streaming - 215211 bytes
D Streaming - 169850 bytes
DR Streaming - 154348 bytes
DL2 Streaming - 151252 bytes
DR2 Streaming - 137662 bytes

And that's where it will have to stop. It should be exactly as good as the original compression now. And can't complain too much about getting down to 21% original size.

Hmm, looks like they actually got it down to more like 120000, but I don't think it's worth worrying about right now, just need to go ahead and add the editing.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01 2010 7:13pm
by Special T
Since you added the ability to expand the rom the difference in compression won't really be an issue, correct?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01 2010 7:17pm
by rubixcuber
Not especially no, but I'd like to keep the size down if possible. The graphics editing is going to require a 3MB rom no matter what, and I'd like not to hit 4 or more too quickly...

I mean, size isn't really an issue no, but taking that logic to the extreme I could just not bother with the compression at all and we'd probably end up dealing with 16MB roms pretty quickly. And actually, I'm not sure off hand if there's a limit to rom size for most emulators, but there is a limit on the flash carts. I would like to keep it working on flash carts, especially since Flygon seems to be planning on using one. The Mega Cart only supports 3MB, so I'm going to aim not to go over that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 12:02am
by Special T
When I was messing around with the no revival mod another thing came to mind, adding death quotes like those found in Fire Emblem. Since members currently don't say anything when they die I wouldn't be able to add / edit them in the text editor. On that same note it would be cool to be able to add text (or events) to sections that currently don't them already, that way you could add a story element before / after / or during any battle / town.

I know that all this is pretty low on the priority list at this point but I figured I would post here before I forgot about it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 12:50am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, I'll think about it. Right now kind of scratching my head on the graphics.

Graphics!

Image

Just need to wrap up a few minor details and then I'll upload the new editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 2:07am
by Special T
I don't know how long that took you but for a Proof of Concept image it's not bad.... I wonder what he looks like when he's promoted (cross fingers please don't be cell shaded link, please don't be cell shaded link....)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 2:10am
by rubixcuber
It just took about 2 minutes. It's weird how close Max is to Link sort of. Just a little bit of recoloring, change the band to a hat and the cape to a shield...

That's actually what gave me the idea, was thinking of something that wouldn't take too much work, and thought... Hey, he kind of looks like Link!

Update

Ok, it's out. Have fun!

I know it's not the easiest to use yet. Once I get the other graphics editable I'll worry about some usability stuff... For one, it will really need a way to copy frames...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 4:47am
by Special T
rubixcuber @ Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:10 am) wrote: I know it's not the easiest to use yet. Once I get the other graphics editable I'll worry about some usability stuff... For one, it will really need a way to copy frames...

Well I just messed around with it now and it's not too bad.

One thing that I would suggest (don't know if it's doable though) would be to add the ability to look at multiple frames at once. That way when editing a character you don't have to keep clicking back and forth to ensure they look similar.

The other alternative I can think of at the moment would be to allow the sprites to be exported that way I can have the already edited frame up in another window / image viewer while I edit a different frame and then I could just toggle back and forth between each of the frames to make sure they are consistent.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 4:55am
by rubixcuber
Well, I do intend to have some sort of export probably at some point, but if that's all you want to do you can either use Print Screen and paste into paint or photoshop or something. Or you could just run two copies of the editor.

I will try to add some more usability stuff once I finish making the others editable.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 2:20pm
by Special T
I didn't even think of the print screen option, thank you!


Also, I was thinking of eventually recreating or importing sprites from Shining Force CD but I wasn't sure if they would break anything. Do you know if the Sega CD used more colors than were allowed on the Genesis? As far as I can tell it doesn't look like it, but I'm not 100% sure.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 3:13pm
by conlius
Special T is just crankin out requests haha.

The editor made a lot of progress in the last couple of weeks. I think the only issue that you will see with the graphics editing is weapon placement. When making edits to a sprite, you can't stray too far from where the character's weapon is in each frame (correct?).

Either way, this looks great. There is already more utility in the editor than i can really take advantage of. Great work!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 4:49pm
by rubixcuber
That is true conlius. The weapon animations are loaded and will be editable soon, but even so, at least at the moment the weapon animations are shared between characters, so you will have to keep the hand placement in mind when editing.

Actually, I was just thinking that I could at some point have an ability to overlay the weapon animation on top so that you can see where it is lining up. I just need to research exactly how they position it, since it is a lot smaller than the character sprite.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 9:35pm
by KBH
To anyone thinking about a no egress mod to up the challenge, I suggest instead modifying the effective level of enemies so that you don't get worthwhile experience for going through battles multiple times

This is because all No Egress really does is make Max have to walk back to the start of the battle to exit and replay.

Oh and you have to take away the Egress feature of the Speed Ring don't forget (or make it disappear after one use or something)

Finally, one final problem is that if anyone wants to keep a save of the final battle vs Darksol to level up all of their un(der)used units like I do, no Egress would be pretty lame.

In the Challenge Mod, I attempted to make the game more interesting (where enemies are concerned) by giving them "Smart AI" - and allowing them the intelligence to try and move towards and attack your team, when you come within their "Threat Range" (2x- their listed Movement value).

To do this - for any enemy - you use the AI-coding 1, 255, 255 - the infamous "Rubix Balbazak Fix" - since it was the first major AI innovation Rubix discovered...as a way to make Balbazak finally Move and Attack - instead of sitting where he starts the battle in the default game (which Designer thought THAT was a good idea ? Please explain your rational ! ).

You can do it, as I said, for any enemy you want to exhibit "smart" AI movements. Also note that, if you want, you can give the enemies "Move To" orders...by making their X-Y numbers on the edit screen, something DIFFERENT from their "starting X-Y numbers on the map".

Example - if Skeleton has Starting X-Y of x-10, y-10 ...and you (on the Edit Screen) - give them x-20, y-20 ....etc... when it comes to his turn on the battle map...he will try to move 10-spaces to the right, and then 10-spaces down (so basically he will move Diagonally down and to the right - on the actual Map). This is only marginally useful, I've found...since after they reach that location, they will adopt "No Movement AI" - from that point onwards.


Hey Doomblade, can you answer a quick question for me? I was looking at your challenge mod in the Editor and noticed that you set the Rune Knight with only 1 Behavior Pattern and it was Action: 1 with both Values: 255

However he only had 2 of the trigger boxes checked

I guess I am not quite clear what you have made the Rune Knight do here.

From experience I can say that you can't give him "Smart AI" with all 7 boxes checked since then he will rush you and the battle will end quickly when you kill him

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 10:25pm
by rubixcuber
First, new editor version out. Enemy battle sprites are now editable.

Second, KBH, is it alright if I answer at least part of that question? The last 7 check boxes refer to different areas of the map.

In general, checking all 7 boxes will mean that enemy will perform that action no matter what.

The "smart" AI with all 7 checked and action 1, is just that, rush no matter what.

But by restricting it to only a few check boxes, you get the move and attack when force members get within certain areas.

Unfortunately, it is not known right now where those areas are stored, so only via experimentation or mimicking settings from other enemies in the same battle can you really figure out which ones to check to get what you want.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 10:33pm
by KBH
rubixcuber @ Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:25 pm) wrote: First, new editor version out. Enemy battle sprites are now editable.

Second, KBH, is it alright if I answer at least part of that question? The last 7 check boxes refer to different areas of the map.

In general, checking all 7 boxes will mean that enemy will perform that action no matter what.

The "smart" AI with all 7 checked and action 1, is just that, rush no matter what.

But by restricting it to only a few check boxes, you get the move and attack when force members get within certain areas.

Unfortunately, it is not known right now where those areas are stored, so only via experimentation or mimicking settings from other enemies in the same battle can you really figure out which ones to check to get what you want.

Thanks Rubix, I was really asking anyone but posed the question to Doomblade out of deference since he made the mod I was studying.

So does that mean that if you want an enemy to cover a certain "area" without just standing still that you have to experiment with checkboxes until you find something satisfactory?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02 2010 11:11pm
by rubixcuber
For the moment yes, unfortunately. Sometime soon I might research how to load and edit those areas though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03 2010 3:49am
by Special T
conlius @ Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:13 pm) wrote: Special T is just crankin out requests haha.

Yeah since I have ADHD (Attention hyperactivity deficit disorder) I have to get my random thoughts out before I forget them or my attention gets drawn to something else. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03 2010 11:45pm
by conlius
I have ADHD too and I understand exactly what you mean :D My comment was not meant to be aggressive in any way :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04 2010 12:37am
by rubixcuber
So... anyone else try the graphics editing? And anyone at all try the enemy sprite editing?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04 2010 1:18am
by Special T
conlius @ Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:45 pm) wrote:I have ADHD too and I understand exactly what you mean :D  My comment was not meant to be aggressive in any way :)

No worries I didn't take any offense to it.

And anyone at all try the enemy sprite editing?

I just downloaded the newest version of the editor and everything seems to be working fine. I was going to try and do something really nice with it... but I'm horrible at pixel art.

Unedited image
Image

Max missing legs
Image

Goblin missing head
Image

It works though. :thumbsup:

A note on usability though, it's kind hard to edit the sprites without a zoom function. I doubt it would help my sprite editing abilities but if you're able to zoom it's easier to add small details.

Other than that, great job!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06 2010 4:48am
by Lobo
Just finished reading this one.
I'm going to download the last version and try it out as soon as possible. :excited:

Unfortunely, I can't tell when it will be. Maybe tomorrow, maybe not until the weekend... :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06 2010 3:54pm
by nineko
Flygon @ Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:56 am) wrote: I'm a bit disappointed no one seems to care about nineko's music porter, is this something I'm going to have to make a proof-of-concept hack for? :(

Well, to be fair, it's not user friendly at all, as it was a mere beta version with plenty of bugs which sadly I never bothered to fix... As you know I've lost interest about hacking, but I might be up to help people with music ports if I see a project which is interesting enough. There are plenty of good songs in Cube format and while most of them might not fit into Shining Force I'm sure there can be some appropriate ones; however there is a very high chance that the drums will need to be fixed by hand, since Shining Force uses a very particular drumset when compared to other games such as Mean Bean Machine or Snow Bros (which ironically share most of their drum IDs).

I'll stress this -- I retired from hacking, but if you manage to reawake my interest I'll be up to help to the biggest extent I can.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06 2010 5:31pm
by rubixcuber
Well, looks like there's a little activity again, so might finish a couple more graphics editors soon.

Since a couple people had asked though, here's one of my other projects:

(Recommended 720p, fullscreen)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68E9Y4tGvEY

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06 2010 8:45pm
by Lobo
Just downloaded and started to see it.
Got some fast notes:

1. There seems to be some issues with the frames and palettes, like having Zylo for Adam's 6th frame. Also, I can't find Arthur's and Earnest's palettes.
I think someone has already apointed that kind of issues.

2. Another point (already noted) is it's difficult to edit the pictures without some other features, like "zoom in" and "zoom out" and an "Undo" function.

3. Is there anywhere we can edit spell animations? Haven't seen it. Not even being discussed in these two topics. If it's not there, guess it will be on the "to do list", right.


Anyway, GREAT JOB so far! :thumbsup:
I'll try to post some pictures after I have finished some minor changes, like making a longer cloak for promoted Max.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06 2010 10:03pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, most of those have been mentioned.

I know it's a little hard to use, but the big step was getting the graphics editable. Once I finish getting some more of the graphics loading and saving I'll look into making things better.

For some reason, two of the palettes for the knights don't seem to load correctly. But the changes are going to affect all of them, so for now you can edit while viewing a different palette.

Also, I haven't looked into it too closely, but it looks like the issues with Zylo in Adam's frames and such actually exist in the rom. Not sure what to do about that.

I haven't spotted the data for the spell animations yet, but I'm guessing they are compressed the same way and they should follow soon after the other graphics.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07 2010 6:22pm
by Lobo
Messing with the palette editor, I found some issues/ideas:

1. Can't change or edit palettes for Force Sprites.

2. Enemies sprites have only two editable palettes. There should be more than that, specially for mages (who have 3 palettes used in the game), but even for other monsters would be useful.

3. After changing palettes and saving them, we have to close the editor and reload the rom so we can see the new palettes on the graphs editor. This is a minor issue, but could save us some time if fixed.

4. Would it be possible to add palettes for force members on the graphs editor? I mean, for example, there's only one palette for Max, while there are four palettes for Guntz. Since there's only one Guntz in the game, I guess you could create extra palette(s) for Max and others who have only one.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07 2010 8:35pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, I actually plan to move the palette editing to the graphics editor for the most part.

I was thinking I'd finish making the graphics I have visible in there editable and then start cleaning things up and such.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08 2010 7:42pm
by Chaiman
Rubix, are those video from game you're planning to do? Looks great! :excited:

As for editor...
Could you add ability to erase pixels to the background color of the sprites with right mouse button? :blush: It'll be very nice not to switch to bgcolor every now and then I draw wrong pixel ;)

And could you teach me how to properly create ranges and spells?
I've done this, trying to create a new spell:
1. Add a new range (#64)
2. Set it propetries like this:
CODE
# Max Min Area Group Routine
64 3 0 4 3 d976 (20cf4)

(I copied routine number from blaze lv 2.)
3. Draw a new icon for new spell OXY
4. Edited the 1st level of the spell and set Range to 64 Effect to 37 (blaze 2, cause I want to change this particular spell) MP to 2 (just for test) the last parameter is 0 - have no idea what's it for...
5. I gave new spell to Max. He learns it at lv 1, so I can use OXY from the very beginning of the game.
After launching the game ang geting into the first battle I've tried to use my new spell. And it's allright till the moment at which battle animation must load. Black screen - that's all.
I just want to create new blaze spell with different range/cost. What should I put instead of d976 to make it work?
Thanks in advance!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08 2010 7:56pm
by rubixcuber
Yes, just a little game I'm working on.

Well, right now, right click is eye dropper. You can right click to select the background color if you want. There's also the eraser. I'm not sure what else to do with it since right click is already in use. Although I think undo would be nice.

Sorry about the ranges, I need to remember to rewrite that so it calculates the offset for you. You want the number in parentheses to match.

In your case, you want 20C1C but have 20CF4, so you are over by D8.

You want to use D976 - D8, or D89E, and it should work.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08 2010 8:14pm
by Chaiman
QUOTE Well, right now, right click is eye dropper.
I've just somehow miss this ability :shock: Thanks, dropper is even more usefull :)
QUOTE You want to use D976 - D8, or D89E, and it should work.
Yuppie!!! It works :) Thanks alot. Should I check that value in the brackets is always "20c1c"? I mean for new ranges?

And I've found some bug with level showing:
WARNING: SPOILER!

It's not critical, just thought you may want to know that ;)

EDIT:
I was trying to make Max look more alive (by remooving outlines).
I've done one sprite and save ROM. Now I'm getting infinite zeroes instead any line of text... What have I done wrong?
WARNING: SPOILER!


PS: How do you like edited Max? ;)

EDIT:
I resaved text and got black screen instead battle animation.
Then I resaved edited sprite and got that zeroes once again.
It seems that my natural ability to hang a copmuter of no-matter-what-high-perfomance has expanded to struck with bugs there, where others did just fine... :D
Way too bad...
Someone here was sayng that all work fine and even made screenshots...
Just one sprite cause text routine to crash.. Maybe there's some restrictions on redrawing?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 1:24pm
by Special T
Chaiman @ Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:14 pm) wrote: PS: How do you like edited Max? ;)

EDIT:
I resaved text and got black screen instead battle animation.
Then I resaved edited sprite and got that zeroes once again.
It seems that my natural ability to hang a copmuter of no-matter-what-high-perfomance has expanded to struck with bugs there, where others did just fine... :D
Way too bad...
Someone here was sayng that all work fine and even made screenshots...
Just one sprite cause text routine to crash.. Maybe there's some restrictions on redrawing?

Since I grew up playing shining force on the genesis I tend not to apply any emulator filters when playing the game, so it's hard to say if I like not having the black line around Max.

I'm not sure about the errors you're getting, I think that's something that rubixcuber will have to answer since it never happened to me before.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 4:45pm
by Lobo
I like the outlines there.
Your picture resemble those of RotDD.

Don't know of the text crash either.
Hope rubix can find a fix.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 6:45pm
by Chaiman
Just a couple of minutes ago I've launch the editor and opened that rom with crashed text routine (That's what I thought at first). But whet I picked a tab with text I saw that all lines filled with "9 9 f2" codes. So it is text what crashed, not the routine.
Here's screenshot:
WARNING: SPOILER!

EDIT:
1. Rubix, could you add a feature to export and import the text? Maybe with tags.
So we can load it in any editor and change it and then import it back to the rom.
It'll be very usefull.
2. Could you make right mouse button act like dropper in item's icon editor?
3. Could you add import and export of edided sprites? Not to "bmp" or other graphics fprmat, but in "raw" format?
Hope I didn't bother you much :blush:

EDIT:
I've tried twice more and got the same effect - garbage instead of text.
Just ONE changed pixel and here it is :(
(Rom is expanded to 3 MBs)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 7:15pm
by rubixcuber
Ouch, ok. I knew I was going to do something like this at some point...

I forgot where I had relocated the text data to and put the graphics data at the same spot...

If you've edited the text data on the rom, the text data will be wiped out by saving sprites.

This is one of those, hope you took my advice and made backups situations, but if you really need to I can restore the original text to a rom at least if you send it to me. Or I can tell you what values to change if you're comfortable doing that.

The fix is pretty simple though, just need to change where I put the graphics data, will upload that shortly.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 7:28pm
by Chaiman
Thank for your help, Rubix!
I'll be glad if you'll explain how to restore text :)
It's not necessary, just I want to know what to do in such a case ;)
I'm no need a backup of a rom, 'cause I have imported all I've change :)
As for graphics, I went furter and try edit graphics with NOT decompressing game's text. There could be many words, but I have a picture ;)
WARNING: SPOILER!

EDIT: How do you store palletes when importing?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 7:38pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, well new version is up.

Please try everything again Chaiman. I think I've got that fixed now. Thanks for finding the issue.

If possible, keep that test case with the sun and try saving it with the new editor, hopefully it will work now.


And here's how to revert to original text:

The best thing to do is open your rom alongside an orignal rom.

There are three 6 byte chunks you need to restore at x2140, x215C and x2112. If you change those back to the original values, it should load the unmodified text again.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 7:58pm
by Chaiman
Okay.
I've expanded rom to 4 MB and try to draw and save that sun again.
If the text remain compressed - the same thing happens to sprite as in my previous post.
If the text was decompressed and only then sprite was edited - it's allright, I see both Max and the sun :)
PS: Thanks for text-fixing instructions!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 8:40pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, well, it looked like the compression was having problems with certain groupings of pixels. I disabled one of the compression streams and it looks like it should fix your sprite Chaiman.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 9:00pm
by Chaiman
rubixcuber @ Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:40 pm) wrote:Alright, well, it looked like the compression was having problems with certain groupings of pixels. I disabled one of the compression streams and it looks like it should fix your sprite Chaiman.

Yes, now it's no matter either compressed or decompressed text we have - Max is here and the sun is shining! ^_^
Could you explain me how you get sprites from the rom? I'm interested in the part where you decompress and compress them. And could you tell how do you know the pallete for each sprite? If you're not against it, could you send me a code of these routines from your editor? I just have one idea and want to try in out ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 9:06pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I had to reverse engineer their compression algorithm.

It's not terribly complicated, but it's not exactly simple either.

I'm not sure if it will do you any good, but I'll PM you with some code...

Oh and the sprite palettes are saved with the actual sprite data.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09 2010 11:04pm
by Lobo
Chaiman @ Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:45 pm) wrote: EDIT:
1. Rubix, could you add a feature to export and import the text? Maybe with tags.
So we can load it in any editor and change it and then import it back to the rom.
It'll be very usefull.
2. Could you make right mouse button act like dropper in item's icon editor?
3. Could you add import and export of edided sprites? Not to "bmp" or other graphics fprmat, but in "raw" format?
Hope I didn't bother you much :blush:

I would apreciate that too. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10 2010 2:10am
by rubixcuber
Alright, I added the right click to select color on the item icons and the import/export for the text.

I'll add the graphics import/export once I get some more done with the graphics stuff.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10 2010 6:21pm
by Chaiman
Once again a "BRAVO!" to you and a couple of questions :blush:
Now, with text export/import feature done we could easily change text. But what I'm wondering about it is how much space could I use for new text?
- If I'll keep the strings number unchanged, but just edit them, will it work in the rom after importing?
- can I change lines for larger ones? Even if all of them become larger?

WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10 2010 6:32pm
by rubixcuber
I'm not entirely sure if I understand what you're asking for the first question. If you edit and import it should work yes, that was the point of it wasn't it? Just don't add any line breaks or have any mismatched []. Or use any characters the game doesn't support, they don't have many special characters.

As for lengthening the text, I gave enough room to more than double the text in the game, so you shouldn't have any problems there.

Well, thank you for the code, but I do already have code to do that, and I would always recommend doing something like root mean square deviation instead of just linear comparisons. That way 70,70,70 is closer to 60,60,60 than 90,60,60, even though the total difference is 30.

And I'm not sure why you want to make an external graphics editor. As I've said I do intend to allow import/export of the graphics. I guess I can go ahead and add that now if it's a big deal, I'm sure that would be faster than you learning the compression routines and trying to write another editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10 2010 8:03pm
by Chaiman
Just don't add any line breaks or have any mismatched [].

Yes, this is what I was asking ;)

And I'm not sure why you want to make an external graphics editor.

I don't want to.. When I was saying that I meant that I want to help with development. :blush:
Just was trying to help. That code was was only the idea, algorithm of comparing sure need to be revised, and I tried square compilations, but my current version of kol gives me only AV...
Anyways, I'm not pursuing you to include graphics import/export, you've done so much already, I can't complain about anythig. Just hope that you will continue on editor's development :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10 2010 10:55pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, new version is out.

Added import and export of graphics. It will dump them to a folder called GFX in the same location.

Also delayed the decompression like with the text, so it doesn't load all the graphics every time you run the editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11 2010 5:11am
by Special T
Thank you very much for allowing us to import / export graphics & text, this makes things a lot easier :thumbsup:

Graphics Questions:
1. If I choose colors that are incompatible, will the program correct this with a close match when importing the images back into the rom?

2. When the graphics are exported, it only exports one pallet set (the centaurs for instance). Shouldn't all the pallet versions of the sprites be exported?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11 2010 5:13am
by rubixcuber
Yes, it will try to find the closest match for each color based on the first palette (the one it was exported as)

And no, because that would give the impression that each palette version had its own graphics. And which one would we import back in? There is only one graphic which is recolored using different palettes.

Update

Graphics editor now edits and saves the backgrounds as well.

Also, don't use the graphics import right now... There are a couple sprites where they have the transparent color black as well as the outline color black, which confuses it. I need to make a standard transparent color or something.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11 2010 7:44pm
by Lobo
QUOTE (Chaiman @ Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:14 pm)And I've found some bug with level showing:
WARNING: SPOILER!

It's not critical, just thought you may want to know that ;)



Me too!
WARNING: SPOILER!

The correct levels should be 16 (Balbaroy), 20 (Max) and 17 (Gong). :shock:



EDIT:

Also, I've got a question:

In the default game, once you promote a character, the monsters will give him experience points as if he were lvl 11 unpromoted, right? No matter what level he was when he got promoted, right?

Well, when you change Level Limits in the editor, what effect does it have on experience points?

Could it be possible to add a tool for us to change this relation?
I mean, a tool that allowed us to set "EXP lvl 1 promoted = EXP lvl 20 unpromoted" or "EXP lvl 1 promoted = EXP lvl 15 unpromoted" an so on...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11 2010 8:08pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, new version with a quick fix.

The graphics import/export will now properly handle cases where the transparent color is also part of the palette. This notably occurs in Tao's battle sprite.

This will invalidate any existing exports, but just back them up and export again, copying over any changes you've made in your graphics program. Sorry about that, didn't realize they had done that. And if you've already exported and imported you may need to export the images from a backup or original and import them to fix Tao and any others. Or just copy Tao's image for that matter.

Also, your images don't work Lobo. I assume this is with the three digit levels though? I'll look into it. Ok, I see what it is, wonder how that happened, I swear it was working when I tested it. I'll try to get a fix in a bit.

Alright, yet another new version. Three digit display should work now, just made a stupid mix-up when I was finalizing it. Just save again in the mechanics editor.


And as for the exp stuff, the limits have no effect on it. I'll make a note to look for how to change the relation though, sure.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12 2010 3:38pm
by conlius
So this might have already been discussed but I figure I would bring it up...

If I create a new spell (exact same thing as freeze...new effect value but still identical), it works fine on my force members...

However, the AI just hangs up on the spell...If I give the AI freeze, it works fine. If I give them my new spell "cold", they just hang up when they get in range (everything seems identical as far as routine, effects, range, etc). Any ideas?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12 2010 4:07pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, unfortunately the AI seems to have special handling or something based on each spell.

I think as long as you keep your new spell in the top 16 slots it should work fine. So you have the dummy one to replace at least.

I do intend to try to make the additional spells work for enemies at some point, but I think the graphics are higher priority right now.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12 2010 4:20pm
by conlius
Oh OK that's not an issue. Technically, I can move some of the current spells to other slots (say 17, 18, 19, etc). There are certain spells that the AI will never cast (sleep, boost, slow, etc). I could use those slots that I free up for new enemy AI spells correct?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12 2010 4:26pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, I think that should work fine. Just make sure you change spells learned and such to match though, since people learn some of those spells.

Edit: Anyone mess with the backgrounds? ...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14 2010 5:54am
by Special T
rubixcuber @ Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:26 pm) wrote:Edit: Anyone mess with the backgrounds? ...

Yeah and I have a couple of questions.

Why are the backgrounds broken up into multiple images? For example when you export the graphics the background for the first battle would be 32.bmp & 33.bmp. Why isn't it just one image?

I've just been messing around with it to see what I could do so I found an image from one of the backgrounds in SFII and copied half that image over 32.bmp & the other half over 33.bmp.

Here's the original image

Image

When I load the rom and test it out it works but the colors look washed out for some reason.

I actually screwed up the first time and transposed the images.... :blush:

Image

But even when I correct the position of the image, it still looks washed out.

Image

Since this was taken from Shining Force II, shouldn't it be a compatible background or are there other factors I need to take into consideration?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14 2010 7:24am
by rubixcuber
Ask the developers. It's two separate images in the game. Probably because it's not set up to handle an image as wide as both of the pieces.

And it's matching closest colors to the palette of whatever background you are replacing.

You'd have to edit the palette to match the SF2 background. Integrating the palette stuff into the graphic editing is pretty high on the todo list.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14 2010 5:01pm
by Chaiman
Yes, palletes now keep us from inserting any background that we wanted to...
But the thing import and exoprt works perfectly is great :)
WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15 2010 2:57am
by rubixcuber
Well, just thought I'd update with some good news. I had thought there was only one function that called the graphics decompressor in game, but I have discovered another function which calls it and have been able to track down more graphics including the portraits and spell effects.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15 2010 4:14am
by Lobo
Well, is it not good news?
The editor seems to be developing in a very fair way! :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15 2010 4:25am
by Special T
That is very exciting news! We can almost start creating our completely new characters since we can already edit the battle sprites and now you found the portraits... the last thing we would need would be Map Sprites. Has that data already been located as well?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15 2010 6:07am
by rubixcuber
I haven't actively tracked down the pointers yet, but I'm almost positive I can now easily locate/edit any of the graphics. So just a matter of coding now.

Update

New version out. Portraits are editable now.

Also, taught myself the music format for the game, going to take a shot at a music editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16 2010 1:26pm
by Flygon
I have a request, are you able to share your information with Wiz regarding the sound driver? He is an expert on the Cube/idWare driver and could prove quite helpful, and possibly vice versa.

The fact that you're making a music editor is wonderful, particularly since a fair amount of games use the exact same sound driver as Shining Force (Of which whom, I've been able to experiment with porting music to-and-fro, as I've emphasized previously).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16 2010 2:28pm
by Wiz
WOWOWOW ! :shock:

Ok so with the full backing of Flygon :excited:, here I am rubixcuber, please tell me if there is anything I can do to help you about the sound aspect of SF1.

I have disassembled this sound driver about 2 years ago for SF2, you can find most of my work here if it can help :
http://shrubbery.free.fr/sf2hack/soundresearch/

About making a music editor, you may want to do it all by yourself from scratch if you do it for the accomplishment, but if not, I highly suggest you to look at this and get in touch with Andlabs :
http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=22271
I have not looked into it in details, but my thought is that with Andlabs' opensource tracker, you might be able to just add cube-specific import/export features and that should do the trick as a first quite efficient step.

And while talking about import/export, be aware that nineko, from that same sonic hacking community, made tools to do it on games that use the cube driver. Er, actually I just saw his last post in this thread so you must already know it. :)

Anyway yeah, tell me if I can help you about it, because we definitely need a way to import new music to SF1 and SF2 !

EDIT : typo. By the way, your rom map thead is great, for community work as well as giving SF-hacking beginners some motivation ! We should definitely do something like that with SF2.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16 2010 7:49pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, I've seen the one from Andlabs, and have the source.

I was thinking something a bit more intuitive than that, and also, maybe it's just the win version, but it seems buggy and practically non-functioning for me.

Personally I was kind of liking the idea of laying it out visually, as musical notes on a staff. Don't know if anyone else would like it that way though.

And thanks for the offer, if I get to the point where I could use your help, I'll definitely get in touch. Right now though, I'm just thinking of making a game independent editor for the general YM2616 music..

And on the rom map, now I just need to post the formats for all of that data as well! I know how pretty much all of that data works and is organized, would just need to type up a lot of information...

Glad you approve Flygon. Don't know how much you've been keeping up with the editor, but we've got editing and import/export for a couple sets of graphics now.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16 2010 8:33pm
by Wiz
Ok, great !

Personally I was kind of liking the idea of laying it out visually, as musical notes on a staff. Don't know if anyone else would like it that way though.

I think Oddeye will appreciate, as he also felt the lack of a similar feature in this tracker. I'll let him confirm and develop on this topic.

Right now though, I'm just thinking of making a game independent editor for the general YM2616 music.

That's a lot of work, but many people are still waiting for a good MD-dedicated tracker, so in case of success you can expect a lot of good feedback ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18 2010 8:19pm
by tggrng123
O_O wow I haven't been here for awhile (due to my MMORPG server and working on that). This editor has gone far beyond any editor for any game I've ever seen.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18 2010 9:47pm
by rubixcuber
Wiz: It is a lot of work, but less work than writing a full console emulator or 3d engine which I've done already! I'm a little crazy when it comes to coding.

I've got a basic editor interface done for music, going to test importing, sent you a PM about it.

tggrng123: Heh, thanks. With the rest of the graphics and music editor hopefully on the way, should be getting even better soon!



Sorry about the general lack of updates though, been crazy with work. Might finish up another graphics type tonight before going back to music stuff.

Sneak preview of music editor though:

Image

Update

New editor out, can now edit map sprites!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19 2010 11:17am
by Special T
rubixcuber @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:47 pm) wrote:Update

New editor out, can now edit map sprites!


That's great news and it inspired me to try something later tonight when I get off work.

Quick question though, Any idea why there used so many sprites of Yogurt? Did the developers use that as a place holder or something?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19 2010 12:35pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:47 pm) wrote: Update

New editor out, can now edit map sprites!

Great! Great! Great! :excited:
Going to test it tonight!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19 2010 3:49pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, not sure about Jogurt. Maybe that's how he started out, as a placeholder?

Edit:

Successfully loaded a song from SF. Editor doesn't handle all of the various commands yet, but definitely getting somewhere:

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 3:15am
by Lobo
Here's a set of pictures from my first mess-around with the graphs editor.

WARNING: SPOILER!


Some points I feel I should list:

1) There's still an issue with level showing;
2) About the palettes, though they work right most times, they also have some issues, like that blue color in Ken's tail;
3) Still on the palettes, it's not easy to copy a picture and not mess the colors. Just take a look on Kane's map sprite and Balbaroy's (Luke) battle sprite. Maybe you should add an option to copy and paste the palettes along with the picture;
4) About the portraits, that little pictures on the top right of exported pictures don't work fine. Just tried to export-import-and-save and then the blinkings and speakings all went wrong.



Anyway, despite those minor issues, it feels great to edit and play with the graphic stuff! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 3:18am
by Special T
Lobo, the images you posted in the spolier aren't displaying correctly for some reason.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 3:26am
by rubixcuber
1) Lobo, did you save in the mechanics editor? There shouldn't be any issues with the level anymore.

2-3) I plan on making the palettes editable through the graphics editor once I get done with the graphics stuff, or maybe sooner.

4) Went all wrong? How so? I just tested a couple times with no problems and I think a couple other people didn't have any trouble. Can you get a screenshot?

And yes, the images aren't working, although if you take the url from the post you can get to them.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 4:46am
by Special T
Thanks for the tip rubixcuber I just checked out the images :-)

I did something similar, I just wanted to test out a couple of things to see if my hack idea would work so I changed Ken to Jaro :)

I changed the name, map sprite, battle sprite, portrait, & gave him the same movement type as a birdman... I messed up on the blinking animation and the palettes and didn't change any of the actual dialogue but this is just a test so no big deal.

WARNING: SPOILER!

anyway if anyone is interested in seeing it in action (as lame as it is..) here's the patch

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 6:26am
by Lobo
QUOTE (rubixcuber @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:26 am)1) Lobo, did you save in the mechanics editor? There shouldn't be any issues with the level anymore.

2-3) I plan on making the palettes editable through the graphics editor once I get done with the graphics stuff, or maybe sooner.

4) Went all wrong? How so? I just tested a couple times with no problems and I think a couple other people didn't have any trouble. Can you get a screenshot?

And yes, the images aren't working, although if you take the url from the post you can get to them.
1) Maybe I didn't. But now I did and it's just the same...
2-3) Right.
4) I'm posting the pictures. The faces don't fit right. Do you think it could work different on different emulators? I'm using an old wgens170...

WARNING: SPOILER!


By the way, nice pictures, Special T!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 6:33am
by rubixcuber
Oh, yeah, every character has their blinking animation setup differently, so copying from one to another won't work. I'll probably need a better way to edit those.

I don't know what to say on the level display stuff. That was fixed in 1.1.8 and seems to work fine for me. I guess PM me your file and I'll take a look.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 11:30am
by Special T
Lobo, I laughed when I saw you added a new character to you're force... max drowning in the water.

*edit*

rubixcuber, quick question.

It looks like changing the move type is constrained to unit type e.g. knights or birdman etc. If I just wanted to give only one of the knight a different type of move (ken for instance) is that possible to do that without changing all the other knights to that type as well?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 3:01pm
by rubixcuber
Nope, that's the way they designed things unfortunately.

You'll have to change their class if you want to change just their movement type.

At some point we will have the adding of new classes at least, which will get around the problem.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 3:14pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:33 am) wrote: I don't know what to say on the level display stuff. That was fixed in 1.1.8 and seems to work fine for me. I guess PM me your file and I'll take a look.

I was thinking...
Maybe I could have edited the graphics on an already corrupted rom. One that I have saved the mecanics on an old version of the editor (= 1.1.8)?

Anyway, I'll try to figure it out when I have some spare time at home (maybe not today) and if I can't I'm sure to PM you.
Thanks! :thumbsup:


And Special T,

I'm pretty sure we are still to laugh a lot in this thread! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20 2010 5:49pm
by rubixcuber
Oh, you're right. I didn't realize it didn't fix older ones, I should have it do that maybe.

The fix is pretty simple though. Just change the byte at xD0D0 to 7E in a hex editor and that should fix it. Otherwise send it to me or I'll make the editor fix it automatically.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21 2010 10:03pm
by Chaiman
Great! Great! Great!!! :excited:
Haven't been here for a while working with maps & battle sprites and so many things changed!
Rubixcuber, it's fantastic!
And editing music with notes is a very good idea! ^_^

Oh, I don't want to bother you, but I have some issues with tiles. I've already posted an image where Max are above tile which should be above all other tiles (cause I've ticked checkboxes for above drawing). Back then You did smth and it began to work properly... But here I have the same problem...
My explanation maybe confusing, so here's some screenshots which clears all.
WARNING: SPOILER!

I've thought at first that I need to place edited tiles one more time so it could take it's effect, but the're some tiles which simply won't to be drawn above.


*went away for download & testing*

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22 2010 1:22am
by rubixcuber
Glad you're enjoying the graphics editing.

First, let me say that in the tile editor, you can use the Page Up/Down and Home/End keys to adjust the graphics used to find a setting on which the tile doesn't look like garbage. I'll try to remember to add buttons for that like the map editor.

Second, the issue you are having is because of the way the map works. Those numbers don't correspond directly to tile numbers.

How it works is each map has 4 tilesets, which you can see two of at the top. (1 and 2 for the ground level and 3 and 4 for the upper level)

If the tile number is less than 660, add it to the first tileset to get the actual tile number.

Otherwise, subtract 660 and then add it to the second tileset number to get the actual tile.

Thus, for yours the tile number is 669 and Tileset 2 is 1917 so 1917 + 669 - 660 = 1926 is the tile you'd want to edit.

Be aware though, that maps may apply different sets of graphics to the same tile to get different tiles, so you may be changing more than you expect. I don't think they did that much though.

Anyways, hope that clears it up!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22 2010 8:42am
by Guntzlegend42
Um, my dark sol battle sprites are messed up, they are only a short tall recangle and when I try to edit them, the editor crashes. Any idea what caused this? I also edied the other battle sprites and now some use the first frame of the next sprite as their last frame.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22 2010 4:49pm
by Chaiman
QUOTE Thus, for yours the tile number is 669 and Tileset 2 is 1917 so 1917 + 669 - 660 = 1926 is the tile you'd want to edit. Thanks, Rubix! Now I got it ;)
QUOTE Be aware though, that maps may apply different sets of graphics to the same tile to get different tiles, so you may be changing more than you expect. I don't think they did that much though. I haven't seen such a thing too, but allready changed wrong tile and have seen it affected the world map of chapter #1.

Also I'd like to ask about first batlle map. Is it's "walkable" editable? Or it is same as headquaters map? (sorry, if that already was explained, just don't remember)

Also, thanks for adding right-click dropper for items! Could you add droppper feature to magic's icons? :blush:

And in the end some interesting pictures:
WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22 2010 10:29pm
by conlius
On graphics,

Is there anyway to edit what sprite/palette each character points to?

There are a couple good ones already there (dark dragon looks good in 3 palettes, goblins have 2, dwarves have 2, etc). Wonder if we could say...make each head of dark dragon use a different palette...or make a goblin character show up later in the game with a different palette.

Edit: figured it out. It's on the 4th tab of the editor!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23 2010 7:01am
by rubixcuber
Guntzlegend42: I can't seem to recreate that issue. Can you tell me exactly what you did? Anyone else had an issue like that?

Conlius: Right now all we can do is change enemy palettes. I'll look at the other linkings once I'm done with all the graphics stuff.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23 2010 4:39pm
by Chaiman
Guntzlegend42: I can't seem to recreate that issue. Can you tell me exactly what you did? Anyone else had an issue like that?

Exported and imported so many times, but couldn;t catch this error...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23 2010 4:52pm
by rubixcuber
I guess I'll just keep an eye out for it...

Working on the editing for the animations.

Got one I can't seem to identify though. Maybe someone will recognize this.

Image

Note that the colors are wrong and the 8x8 blocks of pixels might not be arranged properly.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23 2010 8:15pm
by Guntzlegend42
Ok, I changed palettes of Rune Knight, goblin, Pegasus knight, Laser Eye, and chimera, then I saved, next I edited the chimera's dragon head and then I realized the last frame was the same as the first frame as the wyvern but with the chimera palette. so, I checked the other enemies and now Darksol's first two sprites are just tall rectangles Now every Shining Force game I try to edit is like that, It wasn't originally like that. I exported the sprites after that. Unpromo Adam's last sprite has zylo's first frame and promoted max is the same way although with a paladin sprite. The artillery's sprites are like Darksol's, tall rectangle of one pale color.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23 2010 9:10pm
by Chaiman
rubixcuber @ Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:52 pm) wrote: I guess I'll just keep an eye out for it...

Working on the editing for the animations.

Got one I can't seem to identify though. Maybe someone will recognize this.

Image

Note that the colors are wrong and the 8x8 blocks of pixels might not be arranged properly.

Um... Maybe that's Bolt lv 2? That bended line and a sphere... Looks like that. Maybe I'm just wrong.
Anyway, it seems that this animation has many objects...
Could you tell what animations are recognized?
It'll be easier to choose betwen left ones ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23 2010 11:06pm
by Lobo
One more picture:

WARNING: SPOILER!


(I can't help! :eyebrow: )

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 12:36am
by rubixcuber
Sure, here are the animation's I've identified.

Freeze
Bolt
Blaze
Slow/Muddle/Etc
Desoul
Heal/Detox
Armed Skeleton/Lyle
Zylo Special
Gong/Musashi Special
Laser
Bleu Special
Glow Effect (Intro)
Fire Breath
Demon Blaze

And the only other one is the one I posted.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 2:03am
by Guntzlegend42
What about the ice breath? From the blue dragons. Or is freeze the same as that?

Here's what I did with the messed up sprites,

1: The sprites of the unpromo adam, promo max, chimera are from the original rom, they were like that before I changed the palettes. Then after I edited the goblin's palette, the artillery sprites are messed up.Artillery Sprite, frame 1

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 3:00am
by rubixcuber
Ah, I see it now. Yeah, the palette editor is a little outdated, and apparently breaks the graphics. I would recommend not using it at the moment. I'm going to move the palette editing in with the graphics stuff, perhaps at a higher priority now.

Thanks for pointing it out.

And yeah, the ice breath shares graphics with freeze.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 6:38am
by Guntzlegend42
Here's one of my edits, I'll wait for the palette editor to be more refined before battle sprites are dealt with

WARNING: SPOILER!


p.s. anyone got the last chimera frame, last unpromo adam frame and the promo max's 2 last frames?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 9:10am
by Drakonis
rubixcuber @ Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:36 am) wrote: [...]
And the only other one is the one I posted.

When I try really hard, I think I can see a torch eye on the very right?
In your list theres either missing the Laser Eye or the Torch Eye laser animation (you just listed a single laser).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 2:12pm
by Chaiman
Maybe that's Bowrider's attack? That one with a huge explosion?
Or celberus fire spirral attack?
That's only 2 of them I could remember, that isn't in your list...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 2:22pm
by rubixcuber
The fire spiral is what I referred to as Fire Breath.

The Bowrider explosion shares graphics with Blaze.

Also, the spell/attack graphics were all easy to identify and were laid out in a fairly standard way. This one is completely different, so I don't think it's an in battle animation.

And I forgot to put it on the list, but I have Lyle's explosive/glow animation as well.

Cleaned it up a bit and animated it, still can't really tell what it is...

(Imaged removed)

Kind of looks like a torch eye... melting.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 5:42pm
by Chaiman
I've rearranged a bit to make 2 squares...
Image
still can't say what is it...
Some breaking rock or volcano...
Kind of looks like a torch eye... melting.

May be may be ;)
PS: sorry for the white stripes :blush:

EDIT: NOt only Torch Eye, but Metal Egg too!!! (Is it really called so? I'm forgot..)
Yes! Left side is torch eye? and right - metal egg melting!
Just frames are not in the right order... 1-3-2

EDIT: But this is battle sprites animation then? Instead of a common explotion ?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 7:07pm
by Siel
Ramladu's Torch Eye and Steel Claw hatching?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSkzc-NSGBE
4:22

Edit: I tried to get the right colors (but I somehow messed up the first frame of the torch eye while assembling the puzzle):
Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 8:03pm
by Drakonis
I thought the same thing exactly as I saw the animation. Its the Ramladu battle robots spawning. No doubt.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 9:11pm
by Lobo
I think you are right.

You guys are pretty good! I would never see it!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24 2010 9:46pm
by rubixcuber
Ah. I recognized the torch eye, but must have been too long since I've played that battle. Don't remember that. Thanks though, think I have everything now!

Update

Ok, added animations to the graphics editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 2:50am
by Rogue
Rubixcuber, thanks for all your work. This is really amazing. I can finally make some small changes to a game a love (nothing groundbreaking, just those small balance touches I used to dream about).

Question: At the shop editor, is it be possible to add more items to a particular store? Suppose store A sells only Short Swords, I want to make it sell Wooden Staves too. I can't see a way to add this, am I overlooking a button or is it not yet implemented?

tyvm

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 2:54am
by rubixcuber
First, I'll go ahead and mention the addition of the animations to the editor again since I had to do that as an edit before and this post is starting a new page. Don't want that update to get overlooked.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far. Sorry about the shops. Right now you can only change items. There isn't any extra room to store the values, but it is on the todo list to relocate the shop data so that can be done.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 6:11am
by Rogue
Thanks, I understand that.

Another question, if I may. While editing items, I can choose which attribute they'll add to (ATT, DEF, etc). Is it, or will it be possible to make an item that adds for more than 1 attribute? For example a cursed item that adds +30 ATT, and -5 DEF at once?

Last but not least, do HP and MP regeneration items exist in SFH1? Their use is quite strategic and I wonder if these properties can exist in SF1 items. Thanks again.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 6:33am
by rubixcuber
It's been a while since I messed with it, but you'll notice there are a couple ? values for the attribute. If I remember correctly one of them seemed to add to multiple stats, though not necessarily in a predictable manner. Feel free to play with those, but other than that, probably not any time soon at least, that would take some custom code in the game and would not be a high priority.

There is regenerating. Valkyrie and Holy Staff have it I believe. I keep forgetting to add that, will try to remember tomorrow.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 12:25pm
by Lobo
As far as I remember, there's no regeneration in SF1 except for the HP regeneration from some enemies, which has no relation to items.

Someday the editor will give us that option, though. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 2:57pm
by Rogue
Thanks for the quick reply, again guys!

Yes if there's a feature I'd enjoy it would be HP / MP regenerating items!

Back to playing with the editor, I just love it!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 3:27pm
by rubixcuber
Huh. Well, the Valkyrie and Holy staff have a special value none of the other weapons use, and I had been informed that it was regeneration. But from what I can tell, that is not the case.

I guess I'll go ahead and ask again if anyone knows what's special about those two weapons?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 4:57pm
by Lobo
Maybe it was meant to be regeneration, but they screwed it up? I don't know...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 7:13pm
by Chaiman
Hello everyone!
I was developing some document that can help all shining force's modders!
First: Battle messages
Battle messages in effects are starting from 437 in game script. So, 0 in effects tab of the editor means 437 in game script, 1 means 438, 2 means 439 and so on. If you want to use some message from script - just substract 437 from it and you've get your number to type in editor. To find what message will be shown at the batlle scene just add 437 to text number in effects table and you've get line number in the script. That's work till some number. But you can easily see in game script where battle messages end. I haven't tested beyond that.


Second: Animations numbers!!!
All animations have been tested having:
Type=129
Status=8 (I was hoping that at least one of the enemies get cursed, but it didn't affect anyone T_T)
Damage=2 (doesn't important)
Text= random number from 0 to 82
? = 0 (since I've no idea what it does)
Routine= 2 246
(It seems to me that if you use routine from simple magic it'll just hit your opponent and damage will be based on ammount you've chosen, minus 1 for effects like poison or curse, minus strength or plus weakness of target. For example, I used routine from blaze. That means all damage dealt by this effect will be affected with blaze resistance. And For others routines - the same. If you choose desoul routine, then, i think, your spell may INSTANTLY KILL it's target. Am I right, Rubix? )

Here goes numbers:
WARNING: SPOILER!

It seems that ahead there's only empty animations. I've tested to 162 and there wasn't any animations. Maybe I'm complete this, if you tell me what's missing in this list ;)

As for recover.. Never notice that.. that was in SF2 game, not in SF1, I think...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 8:00pm
by dragonsl5
hey guys i was wondering about making spells more/less powerful i was playing with some of the values in the effects menu but had no luck. on a different subject is there going to be a function too add more or remove monsters from maps? i'm thinking of making a mod where the battles are a little more challenging (i.e more HP for enemies, more enemies in beginning maps etc)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26 2010 8:19pm
by rubixcuber
New version out. Added tilesets to the graphics editor.

It is planned to have that eventually dragonsl5, but unfortunately the way they stored the battle data makes it difficult to add new ones. I'll get to it at some point though. As far as making spells more or less powerful, you should just be able to match the effect number from the spell editor (5th tab with the blaze icon) to the effect number and then change the damage column.

Thanks for the info Chaiman. The status value is only used by the status routine: 3 108. That's why the curse would never work with those settings. And I haven't tested giving anything else desoul's routine, but I believe that is correct.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27 2010 4:51pm
by Chaiman
The status value is only used by the status routine: 3 108.

Thanks!
But I found that jogurt effect didn't work if casted in battle scene... Even on my own character... May be I'm just so unlucky, but I've tested it so many times...
What's more, some effects has status value that differs from 0 but they use not the 3 108 routine...
And I haven't tested giving anything else desoul's routine, but I believe that is correct.

I have ;) It works.
But I thought that if Desoul doesn't kill, it hurts enemy... Well, I guess that's so in SF2 only. Is it? If it is so, then coult it be implemented? Maybe some effect settings?
And how much % have desoul? I thought that it's equal to "Damage" property divided by 2.55 (255=100%) , but it kills Max and Dwarves in the 1st battle in 9 of 10 times.
And bosses? They hardly get killed by desoul, so is there some "immune against desoul" property?
And Rubix, if you know, could you tell more about routines numbers?
I mean some routine=some magic or not? And if it is, then what routine is for what magic?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27 2010 5:01pm
by rubixcuber
The Jogurt status is a special routine, I don't think it works through the status effects for spells.

The effects that have something in the status field but use a different routine probably use that number but not as a status. Each routine could use each column for something different if they wanted to. For example, if I remember correctly 4 190 is the routine for modifying a stat permanently, Power Potion etc, and the Status column is actually the stat to raise for that.

I don't believe desoul ever deals damage, no.

I'm not sure the exact success rate, but note that there are resistances. If you check the class editor, there are resistances to spells and such there. The bosses don't have a resistance to desoul though so it's likely they did something like making enemies which end the battle immune to it. As far as I know, there isn't a immune flag in the enemy data, but you might try some of the other check boxes in the class editor.

As far as the routine numbers, they indicate what code to use for the effect. Each type of effect has its own code. There's code for causing a status effect, instant kill, modifying hp, boosting stats, etc.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01 2010 12:23am
by Lobo
Haven't had time to try the latest version yet.
Hopefully I'll manage to do that tomorrow.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01 2010 3:12pm
by rubixcuber
Glad to see someone is around at least. Guess I'll start working on this some more then.

I should be releasing a first test of the music editor sometime today.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01 2010 4:14pm
by conlius
rubix,

A few things:

1. When exporting graphics, the platforms don't export at all. I hit export, it says that the graphics are in the GFX folder...everything is there but the platforms the chars stand on in battle.

2. How hard would it be to create an import/export for the spell icons/item graphics? Right now, editing them with the paint editor you setup is doable, but it restricts our ability to copy/paste and such.

For example: say I want an item to look exactly like a medical herb with different colors from the pallete...i'm forced to redraw it from scratch. Or even just copy/pasting the borders for spells...or importing something like a healing drop from SF2. Just curious

You the man,

Chris

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01 2010 6:19pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, if you'll notice, the platforms aren't editable or in the correct colors either. Those and the weapon animations still need to be finished up.

I might consider adding an import/export for the other icons. But unlike the other graphics, those aren't compressed, so you could edit them with a program like YY-Chr if you wanted to.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01 2010 7:52pm
by conlius
Oh alright. I didn't notice that the platforms weren't editable.

This is true that you can edit the icons with YY-Chr. I just asked to see if you had any plans on doing so because it just keeps everything in one editor. However, re-inventing the wheel is never attractive either so I understand if you don't plan on it.

On a side note: there are a number of identical enemy battle sprites

19&20
25&26
41-49 (only 41 being pointed to).

I assume in the future we might be able to extend the number of enemy entities and point them toward the available battle sprites.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01 2010 8:22pm
by rubixcuber
New version, platform graphics are now editable.

No problem, and they are editable now!

I will at some point, just not a high priority. Maybe after I finish getting all the graphics editable.

Also, while you can't add new entries yet, you can replace some of the duplicate enemies with different stats with new ones and point them at the unused sprites already.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 9:15am
by Guntzlegend42
Um, my game allows me to walk anywhere in the first chapter's area with the two towns, what happened? Everywhere in there and the ancient shrine are walkable!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 3:15pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, haven't heard of that happening. I'll look into it. Any chance you know what all you changed?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 4:20pm
by Chaiman
Guntzlegend42 @ Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:15 pm) wrote: Um, my game allows me to walk anywhere in the first chapter's area with the two towns, what happened? Everywhere in there and the ancient shrine are walkable!

I haven't run on such an issue that map become totally walkable... Hope that this never happen to you again.

Rubix, I just saw that in items tab an item called "Buster Shot" is shown like this:
"Buster Shoяя". I think яя is standing for two bytes with "ff" value. I've changed so much that couldn't possibly tell why it is so. The only thing I know is that I was changing graphics alot (Maps an icons for magic).
Renaming it back to "Buster Shot", saving the ROM, closing and opening it again results in "Buster Shoяя" again..
It's not critical but this kept to happen everytime I've change it to normal.
When I've save it as "Buster Sh" it's OK, no "яя" in the end. Supposse something overwrites it when saving.

As for graphics itself - I've tried to edit tilesets. It was allright when I draw with a pen 1 pixel weight. But when I've switched to 4 pixel pen weight and try to paint something weird happened: some pixel that was "overpaint" turn back to original color and the equal (on a brief look, haven't count really) count of pixels to the right were colored in the color ( %) ) I painted with. If it's necessary, I could make a screenshot.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 4:23pm
by rubixcuber
Did you change the names of any of the other items?

The only thing that comes to mind right now is that there is a limit on the total length of the item names. If you make one longer you have to make another shorter.

I'll look into everything when I have time though.

And the music editor, for anyone who's interested:

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... opic=17789

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 4:31pm
by Chaiman
Did you change the names of any of the other items?

I totally forgot about it, but yes. And it's exactly 2 symbols added.
Thanks! There're really limits to item names. Well, now I know it ^_^

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 4:35pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, sorry about that. The problem is that the data is being edited in place at the moment, so there's no room for additional characters.

At some point I'll have to relocate the item names.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 5:34pm
by Guntzlegend42
OK, when I play it without opening the rom in the editor, it is fine, but when I open it in the editor, it says that certain maps are fully walkable. I tested it out in different scenarios and only when I save the maps, do they become fully walkable. Btw, nice music editor! :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 5:42pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, do you know what version of the editor you have? You can find out with the change log.

I do think there was a problem with that when I first added the map editor. Hopefully that hasn't resurfaced for some reason.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 5:46pm
by Guntzlegend42
I'm using the latest version. I just downloaded it when I first got up.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02 2010 5:50pm
by rubixcuber
Alright then. I'll look into it when I get home later.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03 2010 5:09pm
by Chaiman
Hi there! :)
Here I've some questions. I guess that they are all to Rubixcuber. :blush:
1. How can I made a new Priest appear? May be not the sprite, just event? So I could save, promote in different place?
2. How can I make a new roof? Adding new roof group (map 2, group 8) isn't working. It's like a roof is allways "opened"... even if I'm out that building...
3. Certain weapons are in the accordance with their battle sprites. Is it hard to make that link editable?
4. Does attack effect nubber of weapons points to effects table? I've change that parametr but nothing happened except hanging the game (and that's very seldom result).
5. Is there some way to remove or add Kituki Huku effect (changing map sprite ability)?
6. Is it hard to add more space to animations? Lets say, the animation tiles order will be like there in Blaze magic animation, but this will be totally new, with it's own number.
7. How hard it is to do some item to make character learn a magic by using it?
Thanks in advance!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03 2010 5:38pm
by rubixcuber
1. It's not fully supported yet, but you can try the sprite editor. Just go to the map editor and select the top sub section on the left.

I can't be too much help with that yet, haven't looked into it too much, but I don't think the map numbers match.

2. Ah, sorry. Groups should only be 0-7, that's why it didn't work. Try a number less than 8. Also, I see that changing the group number always resets the tile... I'll fix that too.

3. I'll have to look into that.

4. To be honest I don't remember offhand, but I was thinking so. I think only certain effects may be compatible with the attack, but I may be misremembering.

5. You should just be able to change the Use Effect from the item editor.

6. I suppose not, but right now we don't have a way to edit the sequence and display of the animation or to call a new animation, so there's other work to be done first on that.

7. That would require a new effect routine. Might not be too difficult, but I think there's a lot of other stuff I'd like to get done before messing with that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05 2010 5:04pm
by Chaiman
1. It's not fully supported yet, but you can try the sprite editor. Just go to the map editor and select the top sub section on the left.
Thanks! For my purposes that's all I need :)

Try a number less than 8.
Aha. Thanks again! :)

5. You should just be able to change the Use Effect from the item editor.
"Use effect" value is for magic or Joghurt.. The problem is that I've set "use effect" to zero, but it still works on tao, making her wear bikini...

Oh, and I wanted to ask about maps editing. In the last version it seems that if I've change map # 2 (for example) I must save rom with that map open. Is that how it's supposed to be or something's wrong?

Maybe that began after I changed a Mage in a Guardiana castle's tower's basement to priest sprite and placed him in to the different location on the same map... Coludn't state that, but maybe...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05 2010 7:38pm
by rubixcuber
Oh, sorry, I didn't pay enough attention to which item you were asking about. I'm pretty sure the special outfits are hardcoded, nothing we can do at the moment.

And if I understand what you are saying correctly that isn't possible... The save routine is totally separate and doesn't even know which map you have selected. There shouldn't be any difference what you have selected.

And sneak preview of the new battle editor:

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05 2010 8:10pm
by Lobo
Looks great!! :excited:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05 2010 10:53pm
by rubixcuber
Thanks ^^

It should be very nice. Not only graphical and animated but also able to edit more stuff like which map to use, the music and the AI regions.

I'm hoping to get it done this weekend, but we'll see.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05 2010 11:24pm
by tggrng123
Wow! That is great, a nice visual editor. Lol it's like Dreamweaver, except for Shining Force! lmao

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06 2010 3:22am
by Special T
Wow, I've been away on vacation for a little while, and I come back to all these awesome updates! The battle editor looks very promising!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06 2010 11:14am
by Chaiman
Super!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really awesome! :excited:

WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06 2010 11:35am
by tggrng123
Yeah I know right! Unfortunately I don't have as much time as I used to because I now run a mmo private server and it's like @_@ but everytime I come back here I'm AMAZED! Really great job rubix!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06 2010 12:05pm
by Guntzlegend42
QUOTE (Chaiman @ Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:14 am)
WARNING: SPOILER!

I accidentally saved the mapsI created and now they are all walkable. Might just be the rom, but when I don't save the map editor, the map is normal. Maybe there is a different indicating number that says that it is walkable in battla. (Like, walkable, only floating/flying, only flyers and not walkable)because I tried the first battleand max can't move.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06 2010 6:14pm
by rubixcuber
Chaiman, there are two types of chests in the game.

Those that are found when exploring are part of the maps and are editable directly through the map editor.

The in battle chests are stored differently, and those are what are in the separate editor, though I will be moving those to the new battle editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09 2010 3:56pm
by Chaiman
Here I am and my new bug repport...

First, the game hangs when I'm walking on the one specific line of tiles on map 2.
The game isn't actually hanged, but you can't do anything!
Image
I mean that every tile with the Y coordinate equal to this tile can hang the game.
There's a message you may see on the screenshot. Well, it appars if you wait enough (you my use frame skip feature of the emulator).
What's more strange - this doesn't happen every time!
I still able to load state just before I step on that line and pass through it. But when I turn back and pass through it again - the game hangs.
There aren't any events or smth that I set manually...

But the message is Lowe's replic, which I've allready heard! Event's glitching? But then, how this come that there aren't any in the editor shown?:damnit:

Second. I wasn't panic. "There's an import/export feature" - I thought. And I was abe to export maps. But not import. It just doing nothing :(

The thing I did before it all started was editing of maps 2 & 3 in the upper left and top sides. What should I do now to fix that? If only the import worked properly... :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09 2010 7:03pm
by rubixcuber
New battle editor is out!

It should be able to do everything the old one could, but the new data is currently read only until I finish a couple of things.



Chaiman: I'm guessing something you did must have interfered with the scripting for that event. I tried a couple things and was not able to recreate that issue, perhaps you could get me your file or exactly what you changed of the maps and I can try to see what's going on?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10 2010 2:52am
by Special T
The battle editor looks good!

A couple of quick things though.

1. Is there a way to expand the viewing area of the battle map? When I maximize the program the map area stays the same size and I still have to use the arrows to navigate.

2. Some of the maps are showing up as corrupted images.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10 2010 3:42am
by rubixcuber
Glad you like it so far.

1) Not at the moment. Perhaps at some point.

2) That's because of some missing tilesets, same issue as the map editor. It's already fixed in the debug version though!

Well, I wanted to get a bit more done before uploading again, but I'm going to go ahead and release the fix for the map graphics.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10 2010 6:35pm
by Guntzlegend42
Ok,I've made a list of all the maps that are totally walkable for me : 1, 11, 15, 17-28, 35, 37-39, 41, and 43. nice battle editor btw.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10 2010 8:13pm
by rubixcuber
Does anyone know of any battles with alternate starting locations?

I know the second battle you can start at Alterone instead, but I can't think of anything else.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10 2010 10:00pm
by tggrng123
Not really :/. I think that's the only one, cause the rest end the battle.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11 2010 2:39am
by rubixcuber
Alright, well I think I'm just about ready to finish the new battle editor stuff. Will probably release it later tonight or tomorrow.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11 2010 3:53am
by Special T
The last update cleared up most of the stuff. I noticed a couple of things while I was playing with it though. I just wanted to point them out in case you weren't aware. But seriously great job on getting this battle editor up and running :)

WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11 2010 4:14am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, thanks for looking into everything but I'm aware of those issues.

The color issues are due to having tilesets which are used with multiple palettes, and right now I'm just using one set of colors.

I don't know when I'll get around to fixing that though, since it doesn't really affect usability that much, maybe once the battle editing is all wrapped up.


Edit: And maybe you could spoiler everything? That's a really tall post with all of the images.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11 2010 4:38am
by Special T
Spoiler added and no problem I figured I would mention those just in case.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12 2010 7:00pm
by rubixcuber
Sorry for the delay.

The battle editor is working for the most part, but requires more testing than I anticipated, and I've had less time to work on it than I had hoped.

I should just have a couple more missing map entries to find and then I will upload it.

I can save and edit everything properly, except that some of the maps have alternate versions which are breaking and I have to go through and identify those and have the editor handle them.

I've fixed through the circus battle, so hopefully a couple short testing sessions and it will be good to go.

Edit: At Pao now. So far so good.

Edit2: And just finished with Mishaela. No unexpected problems so far other than Mishaela decided to charge... Will have to check that.

Edit3: Alright, just need to do a small fix for headquarters and it should be good enough to release. Someone mind posting so I can make a new post for the update?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13 2010 6:52am
by Earl
*nods*

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13 2010 7:08am
by rubixcuber
Alright, new editor is out!

AI regions, terrain and force starting locations are all editable.

Enemies can be added to battles, and behaviors are no longer limited.

This is a pretty big update, so there may be some issues, let me know if you have any trouble with it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13 2010 11:49am
by Chaiman
It's GREAT, Rubixcuber! :excited:
Finally it's possible to edit battle maps walkable! ^_^ :excited:

Besides... the map editor is breaking teleports continuosly...
I mean that when I set the teleport it works, but as I continue to edit maps (not single one, but many) some teleports appeared to lead to nowhere. :confused:
Have no idea what's wrong.

Also somtimes I found that editing one map triggers changes on another one.
Let's say I'm editing map #3 (just for example). I'm often change the map, cause I'm adding more and more teleports. And after some time I'm notice wrong tiles in the ohter maps, which wasn't edited.
I believe that this caused by tile selection window, cause when I'm not using that I couldn't catch that issue.

PS: Have you check the issue with that strange event? I undersatnd, that you've other things to do and deal with, but still? :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14 2010 5:01am
by Special T
Messing around with the battle editor is a lot of fun! One of the things I found most interesting about it is the ability alter the starting location of your force or even split the force into two groups.... it adds a variable that people aren't really expecting.

You're doing a great job with this editor, I'm looking forward to seeing whats next :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14 2010 1:39pm
by Chaiman
Special T @ Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:01 am) wrote: even split the force into two groups....

Yes, yes, yes :)
Now the battle against Elliot could be done much more interesting :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 3:01am
by Special T
Chaiman @ Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:39 pm) wrote: Yes, yes, yes :)
Now the battle against Elliot could be done much more interesting :)

I agree I think it could add a new dynamic to certain battles. I hope to see some interesting / challenging mod's now that this new update is out.

I'm kinda shocked, after such a big update I figured there would be more replies.

I know I've been messing with it but has anyone else done anything interesting with the editors newest feature?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 5:59am
by tggrng123
I love the newest features, hmm, an idea for grapics (misc stufff for later). Is it possible to make it so that we can add colors to palettes? Like if I wanted a new sprite but instead of being limited I wanted a bigger palette of a few more colors. I've played around with the battle editor, to me it's kinda hard to understand, how do you navigate through the map?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 7:23am
by rubixcuber
No, the genesis is only capable of 16 color palettes.

And use the arrow keys. I'll consider adding a visible way of navigating as well.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 9:24am
by tggrng123
aah that's what I thought, anyways I'm gonna be playin with the battle editor and graphics parts, I'll tell ya if I see anything odd.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 4:37pm
by rubixcuber
Sure, thanks.

Yeah, if everyone could just post suggestions/bugs that would help. I think I'm going to take a break for a day or two and then try to address any issues, in addition to what I already have planned.

The next update will allow adding and removing force members, and that or the next will have more terrain information and editing.

Then I think it's back to the map editor a bit to track down some issues.

I guess finish at least the weapon animations and menu graphics after that.

And then fix palette stuff, allowing palette editing from the graphics editor.

I'll probably take a vote at that point. Maybe something crazy like trying to add the inventory management like in SF2 so you can pick up stuff without having to shuffle items...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 9:01pm
by Lobo
Just started to try the new battle editor...

First question: is there a way to remove an enemy from the map?
I mean, now we can add enemies to battle, but I didn't find a way to remove either those that were already there or the ones I added.

Another issue is that of some maps having wrong colours.
But that has already been spoted here.

Great fun to work with this editors and I'm sure it will be most useful! :thumbsup:


EDIT:
Is it possible to create an option in the battle editor to save each battle alone?

I mean, suppose I'm editting battle 1, I would like to save into the rom only the changes made in battle 1, not in the other battles.
That would prevent some issues to be saved into the rom, like those with the map colours.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 9:25pm
by rubixcuber
Ah, yeah, right now the only way is to set its spawn to 0. I'll have to add a way to remove them properly in the next update.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 9:53pm
by Lobo
Now with this AI Regions things it will be much easier (less harder, I mean) to understand how those boxes from the AI editor work. :shifty:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 10:35pm
by rubixcuber
Regions 1-7 should correspond directly to the checkboxes. Like so:

x 1
2 3
4 5
6 7

I'm not entirely sure how the first one is used, if at all.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16 2010 11:18pm
by Guntzlegend42
Has anyone else had problems with the maps being fully walkable? I've downloaded so many roms (before Parental Controls were added since it blocks downloads and rom sites) which either don't work or have those maps fully walkable.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17 2010 1:07am
by rubixcuber
Parental Controls?

I still haven't seen that issue, but as I said, I will be looking into the map editor soon to try to find your and Chaiman's issues.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18 2010 4:19am
by Flygon
rubixcuber @ Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:07 am) wrote: Parental Controls?

His parents must be trying to keep him off the porn. :devil:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18 2010 4:11pm
by rubixcuber
Heh, forgot how young the average crowd around here seems to be.

But, you shouldn't have to keep downloading the Shining Force rom, just make a backup...

Update

Minor update. You can remove enemies from a battle with the delete key and add and remove force members from the battle.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19 2010 12:47am
by Guntzlegend42
Bug: I can't remove monsters and when I saved the battles, reloaded it and the maps don't show up for some and the wrong map for others, without monsters, force, boundaries.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19 2010 12:50am
by rubixcuber
Hmm, yeah, there's something wrong in the latest update, hold off on it for the moment...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19 2010 4:33am
by Loftus
ha, its times like this when i love having breaks from websites and coming back to find amazing-super insane progress on projects,

Fantastic work as always rubix, glad to see you're still working away ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19 2010 4:14pm
by rubixcuber
Glad you're liking it.

Though if you just came back and got the latest version I went and broke the battle editor apparently.

I'll try to get that fixed later...

Update

Ok, I have no idea what happened, but apparently the problem wasn't with the code, I just had an outdated exe in the last update. If you downloaded 1.3.1, please download it again. And if you saved battles using 1.3.1... I hope you made a backup like I suggest, sorry...

If you really need to, I should be able to salvage everything but the recent battle changes from a rom corrupted by this.


New Version

And new version now anyways.

The currently loaded rom is now displayed in the title bar. You can now use the Change option from the File menu to switch roms without loading data. This makes it easy to transfer data between roms, without import/export.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19 2010 8:49pm
by Guntzlegend42
Hey, do you know each "Action" is and what the two values are for. I can only make them attack with Action:1 Value1:255 Value2:255. Nice battle editor btw! thank goodness I backed up my rom with the changes on it before the battle editor. Action 0 is moving.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19 2010 8:55pm
by Lobo
The two values are the X and Y coordinates of the battle map.

If you put Action 0 - Value 1: 5 - Value 2: 8, the enemy will move to the square located at 5 ; 8 in the map.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19 2010 11:59pm
by rubixcuber
Offhand I just know that 0 X Y is move to X Y and 1 255 255 is move and attack nearby force members.

I think 2 is used as well and in some cases 1 with other values, but I'm not sure how those work at the moment.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20 2010 3:05am
by tggrng123
Well now I have more time as I closed my private server of Ragnarok Online. So now I'll certainly have more time to work with your editor :D

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20 2010 5:41am
by Special T
Just some more fun testing... I tried adding spots for 12 characters in the first battle and then used CajNatalie Save Hack with all Characters at level 1. It worked. :)

The only problem I ran into is that when I added spots for more characters they were all added in the same spot. The editor let me save the rom and when the battle started it wouldn't let me move my characters from that spot because it didn't know which one to select. I know it's a minor issue but will error checking be added to the editor later to prevent this?

WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20 2010 6:30pm
by rubixcuber
I suppose it should check for that. I didn't realize the game had troubles with it though.

It adds them wherever you have the screen centered.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20 2010 6:56pm
by Loftus
ok this is a very basic question here, but its always one of those things ive never really understood, and felt too stupid to ask.

When you have the 'growth' section with the number next to each stat (for example, max's hp has unpromoted 23, promoted 46) what do these actually mean?

are we talking what the hp should end up as at level 20 unpromoted... how much hp can be gained maximum before promoting? ive never really understand what these numbers represent.

if somebody can point out what meaning they hold i would really appreciate it :)

Its strange because im sure its pretty simple and its something i should be able to get my head around but its always confused me.

Also, another quick question, is a 12 member limit hardcoded in? im assuming it is but i just thought i would check, always thought it would be cool to have extra members in the battle.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20 2010 11:10pm
by Flygon
Loftus @ Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:56 am) wrote: Also, another quick question, is a 12 member limit hardcoded in? im assuming it is but i just thought i would check, always thought it would be cool to have extra members in the battle.

As theoretically possible as this is, this would require a reduction of enemies in battle. Having the battle lopsided even more towards the human will not be fun. :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20 2010 11:47pm
by Lobo
Loftus @ Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:56 pm) wrote: ok this is a very basic question here, but its always one of those things ive never really understood, and felt too stupid to ask.

When you have the 'growth' section with the number next to each stat (for example, max's hp has unpromoted 23, promoted 46) what do these actually mean?

are we talking what the hp should end up as at level 20 unpromoted... how much hp can be gained maximum before promoting? ive never really understand what these numbers represent.

if somebody can point out what meaning they hold i would really appreciate it :)

Its strange because im sure its pretty simple and its something i should be able to get my head around but its always confused me.

'Unpromoted 23' means Max will gain 23 HP +-4 HP (if he goes up to level 20 unpromoted).
Thus, if he starts with 12, he will finish around 35 (12+23) before promoing on level 20.

Then, after promotion, he will gain 46 HP +-4 HP if he reaches level 20.
So, if he had, say, 30 HP on level 1 of promotion, he will get around 76 on level 20.



##############################################

Rubix:
In the battle editor, if an enemy has a spell I can't take it off.
Think the only way by now is to delete the enemy and create another one, but it's not very nice to have to edit everything (enemy+weapons+#spawn+AI) again.
Guess it would not be hard to add this option.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21 2010 3:26am
by Loftus
Flygon @ Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:10 pm) wrote: As theoretically possible as this is, this would require a reduction of enemies in battle. Having the battle lopsided even more towards the human will not be fun. :(

ah, so by that then is there a maximum number of enemies too? i editted the first battle quickly (although apparently messed up the A.I. now all the enemies appear to be totally retarded) and put in a full 12 character slots, while adding around 7 or 8 enemies, my idea was to just add crap loads of units and have a massive 'war' in every battle lol, bolt would be hillarious.

'Unpromoted 23' means Max will gain 23 HP +-4 HP (if he goes up to level 20 unpromoted).
Thus, if he starts with 12, he will finish around 35 (12+23) before promoing on level 20.

Then, after promotion, he will gain 46 HP +-4 HP if he reaches level 20.
So, if he had, say, 30 HP on level 1 of promotion, he will get around 76 on level 20.


ah thanks lobo :) i wasnt sure if it meant their total hp at that point (the promoted values seemed really low) or if it accounted for level 10/20 promotions etc.

I guess, with what you just explained, that's why characters always seem to end up pretty much the same when levelled 20/20.

Character variation only comes when either promoting before 20 or not reaching level 20 after promotion correct? :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21 2010 4:20am
by rubixcuber
Minor update. Added option to remove spells from enemies and fixed the spell menu when you have expanded spells.

Edit: And yes, there is a limit to the enemies, but I'm not sure what it is offhand. If anyone knows or runs into it, or feels like testing, please let me know so I can make sure the editor honors it. I'll look into it at soon if no one else does.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21 2010 1:38pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:20 am) wrote: Minor update. Added option to remove spells from enemies and fixed the spell menu when you have expanded spells.

Edit: And yes, there is a limit to the enemies, but I'm not sure what it is offhand. If anyone knows or runs into it, or feels like testing, please let me know so I can make sure the editor honors it. I'll look into it at soon if no one else does.

I noticed the limit while editing the battle of the Tower of the Ancients.
After having added a few enemies, when I went to play, a couple of them was missing and they were the last two I had created.
So I had to delete a two of the others and replace for the two I wanted.


As for the update, it was really fast! Thanks! :thumbsup:



####################################


An issue with the Map editor:

Metapha is broken!
When I entered the Shining Path, the teleport led me to the exit of Metapha and I could neither fight Chaos or create the Chaos Breaker.
I'm pretty sure I didn't messed with the teleport events in those maps, so I guess the editor is breaking them once you save the maps.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21 2010 4:01pm
by Loftus
Lobo @ Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:38 pm) wrote: I noticed the limit while editing the battle of the Tower of the Ancients.
After having added a few enemies, when I went to play, a couple of them was missing and they were the last two I had created.
So I had to delete a two of the others and replace for the two I wanted.



damn, thats quite a small limit :(

i guess thats the 'busiest' battle and they programmed it knowing they wouldnt need anymore enemies than that battle? if that makes sense.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22 2010 8:03pm
by rubixcuber
Haven't looked into it too much yet, but the issue with metapha is because they used a special event for that teleport. It is event 104, instead of 12/16 like the rest.

I'll have to look into what's different about it. Hopefully I can just treat it like the others...

Ok, so the Metapha teleport is special in that the links change after creating the chaos breaker. I'll have to make a special case for that event.

Update

Alright, I completely rewrote the teleport engine. I haven't tested it as much as I'd like, but it looks like it handles Metapha and teleport cycles properly now.

Please let me know if it causes any issues.

If you've already edited the maps with an earlier version, Metapha will still be messed up, but you should be able to manually correct those events now as I added editing for event 104. Edit: Hmm, actually I'm not sure if that will be enough or not as 104 works a bit differently. I might have to go back to an older version and break one to see if it fixes it.

Hopefully this will correct most of the present issues with the map editor, assuming it's working properly. Although I still haven't been able to reproduce the all walkable problem.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25 2010 11:03am
by Chaiman
Hello to everyone!
Wasn't here for a while and now I'm gladly surprised with features development^_^
I know, there's another things to done or fixed but... uhm..
Somewere around I saw a hack of SF1 made with your editor, Rubix. There Yogurt had a ninja class. I can't find where I left it, but I'm pretty sure that Yogurt gains level in that hack. So, I've replaced Yogurt with Kane (without a mask) and gave him a Hero class. But Kane doesn't want to gain levels as if he's still in Yogurt class. :(
Just want to ask is it possible to make Yogurt to gain levels? It'll be good if this possible in his YGRR class. Maybe some pointer must be setted to another growth routine. If it's not dificult, could you do it?

And as for allwalkable - I'm too tried to make that issue to apear.
My rom's battle maps are allwalkable only if i teleport to them before I actually could reach those map's battles. And this goes only with in-building-battles (like Mishaela's battle in Scull Palace or battle in Cavern of Darkness). Map #18 is allwalcable too in the editor, but on the game it's allright (whether I'm in battle or not).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26 2010 12:06am
by Guntzlegend42
Hey, umm, I don't know if it is the editor, but you can save by the priest, but not in-battle. Any ideas?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27 2010 6:10am
by tggrng123
Hmmm, yeah I've run into the all walkable error as well, I'mma start with a fresh copy and try to see what did it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01 2010 6:52am
by rubixcuber
Any luck tracking that down tggrng123? I still haven't seen that happen, so I think I'll just have to move on to other stuff until someone can figure out exactly how to reproduce it consistently...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01 2010 2:07pm
by Lobo
I ran into it once, in the HQ map.
But it was sometime ago and I can't remember how it came to be and how I came to fix it.
Never happened again.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01 2010 7:02pm
by Guntzlegend42
OK, the version that introduced the new battle editor has it fixed I don't know how, but the maps that were once all walkable in my game, I re saved them and they were fixed, but I couldn't edit the walkableness in the editor and it still says that they are all walkable. I don't know about previous versions though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02 2010 11:54am
by Chaiman
Guntzlegend42, which exactly maps are allwalkable? Just tell the numbers. I believe that not all maps could have this glitch but particular ones.

Um.. sorry for replicating my question... but is it possible to give Yogurt normal battle animation or at least ability to be leveluped? In the older versions of the editor Yogurt had 3 frames of animation (if I remeber correctly), and since some point he have only 2... :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03 2010 5:56am
by tggrng123
Damn, I haven't been able to reproduce it either O_o. No luck though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04 2010 7:11pm
by Guntzlegend42
Chaiman @ Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:54 am) wrote: Guntzlegend42, which exactly maps are allwalkable? Just tell the numbers. I believe that not all maps could have this glitch but particular ones.


1, 11, 15, 17-28, 35, 37-39, 41, and 43.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05 2010 3:40am
by tggrng123
Actually that's about what I had O_o, although in battle 2 it sometimes was fully walkable and sometimes wasn't as well as a few other battles. Actually the whole first overworld map was fully walkable. Even outside of battle but again sometimes it was, other times it wasn't.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05 2010 5:20am
by Guntzlegend42
It is so confusing.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05 2010 8:31pm
by Chaiman
1, 11, 15, 17-28, 35, 37-39, 41, and 43.

I'm too have this maps shown as allwalkable, but in fact they aren't so. Nor in battle mode neither in town-to-town-wandering mode...

But I've another problem...

Just now I've tested my hack and found that event with Chip opens a hidden pathway is broken! I've "search" bars of my prison cell but instead "footsteps approach" got an "nothing unusual". I've never edited that event! And map edtor still says that #128 event is presents. I'm totally confused.

As for my previous issue with Lowe's event - that happens only on the map #2 and only one time after it was loaded. I've recreated map #2 changes from the very begining by hands (cause changing the rom and saving the data just breaks a newly created rom). And found that issue had gone... I've done not more or less that before to this map. It seems that at some point I've caught a glitch and couldn't recognize it at that moment.

What's more a lot of teleports appear to be broken - right click make editor crash (which happens when editor can't read teleport property's detail values). Big job were done and now I must start it all over again...

So I'm proposing a few next things to be added (some were spoken before by different people, but I'll repeat them):
- add ability to save one map, not all;
- separate saving chests, sprites and maps;
- add ability to restore some things:
a) events on a map (just the open one, not all maps!), and it'll be great if we could restore some particular events. For example only teleport events or only chests events4
b) maps themselves (once again only opened one);
Maybe, this would be based on unchanged rom, defined in the prefences or just from a rom with, let's say "unchanged.bin" name. This'll be very helpfull.
- add abillity to floodfill sprites in the editor. As the changed Youghurt sprite and many battle sprites images recognize colors properly, but some palletes has 2 or more same colors. And one of that "same" colors is shown different in the game. For example Yougurt's light-gray#1 is truly light-gray, but the second one is shown as deep-blue.


And the last one: is the pallete editor fixed? Haven't touch it since were told not to do so...

Edit:
In the sprites editor there's a column for setting NPC's line number. What exactly does that number shows? All of them are in 8-number-distance from previous and next ones. Changing that will affect corresponding NPC's dialog, but It seems that I could choose only from predefined strings of game's script. Even if so, I'd suggest to make that numbers show the number in the game script, not some abstract value.

Also I've found (and that's no secret) that some NPC can dissapear. Example? An old sorcerer at the basement of Guardiana's palace. Before You went to the gate of the gods he's here. But he's absent after you'll manage to return in Guardiana. The map's the same, so NPC should be there. It's not a glitch, it's how the game was programmed. But that means we could set value similar to "spawn number" for NPCs too! I'tll be great to edit.

And some more. Some maps (like #0) have teleport to them with additional value equal to 128. At first I thought it corresponds for cheking events, but nothind seems to change after setting both of that to 0. Had anyone found their meaning?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12 2010 10:32am
by tggrng123
BTW to those who have had the all walkable problem, have you edited item icon graphics extensively? It seems that it happened after I did so.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12 2010 12:07pm
by Lobo
Chaiman @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:31 pm) wrote: Also I've found (and that's no secret) that some NPC can dissapear. Example? An old sorcerer at the basement of Guardiana's palace. Before You went to the gate of the gods he's here. But he's absent after you'll manage to return in Guardiana. The map's the same, so NPC should be there. It's not a glitch, it's how the game was programmed. But that means we could set value similar to "spawn number" for NPCs too! I'tll be great to edit.

Well, actually Guardiana map does change from the first time you get to the castle to the second time, after you return from the GoA.
But yes, some NPC can disapear in other maps also.

I think most of your suggestions (not quoted here) are on the to-do-list, and the ones that are not should be added indeed.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13 2010 3:18am
by tggrng123
Also I've found (and that's no secret) that some NPC can dissapear. Example? An old sorcerer at the basement of Guardiana's palace. Before You went to the gate of the gods he's here. But he's absent after you'll manage to return in Guardiana. The map's the same, so NPC should be there. It's not a glitch, it's how the game was programmed.


When ya return to Guardiana the second time people are dead. If ya think about it for a sec, well he's a sorcerer. He probably died trying to fight off Runefaust forces.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15 2010 9:34pm
by Chaiman
tggrng123 @ Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:18 am) wrote: If ya think about it for a sec, well he's a sorcerer. He probably died trying to fight off Runefaust forces.

Aha, that's the cause of dissapearence, not the game's program ))
I'm talking about editor's features, not the hidden part of storyline.

But after I had wrote the last post I had realized that NPCs aren't dissapear. Some maps could have 2 or more sets of NPCs (e.g. map 2 at the beginning has only Varios, Lowe and guardian, but then the game loads new NPCs). We allready have an opportunity to edit those, but it'll be nice to have an ability to add or remove sprites to/from some sets or add a new set.
And the maps' number at NPC editor aren't equal to map number in the map editor. It would be great to add in NPC editor right number for map. And NPC placement variations could be called "set". So we'll se "Map 2 Set 0" in the editor. For some maps I'm allready knew all the sets numbers, but not all. It'll be easy to find that if rubix'll agree to make that change in editor ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16 2010 1:55am
by tggrng123
Oh now I understand what you're sayin.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16 2010 4:34am
by rubixcuber
Hello, sorry I haven't been around much, been busy with some other stuff. Any leads on the walkable problem other than icons? I'll try to look into that when I get some time.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16 2010 6:15pm
by Chaiman
I've redraw almoust all icons for magic and a certain number for items and my rom's okay. Although I had export that from my corrupted rom and imported to a new one using "change rom". That's smth else i believe. And this smth is with map editor I also believe...

As for map editor itself, teleports event now aren't glitching and dissapear, but some teleports couldn't been copied (e.g. right-click on them causes editor to crash). There's several teleports like that - the Guardiana's King's bedroom's stairs for ex.
Rubix, I'm glad to see you here and beg one more time to separate saving NPCs, Chests, and make map editor save only currently opened map...
Cause I had to start over my maps changing and don't want to do that again.
Some tiles while have been placed on one map appears at others in different places...
Separation will prevent that, cause I believe that you've done all right ant that issue is happening because of wrong mouse messages processing. Maybe I'm just do it too fast so the editor do not know where to place edited tile...

It seems that when I'm chosing from tiles and pressing left button the following happens:
- chosen tile appears at the selected tile place
- changes the number of current tile
- closes the window fo select
- release the button
Please, look on that, maybe you're not using message for which stands "OnMouseUp" event?

Tnx for reading!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29 2010 6:50am
by Vegeta9001
Hi guys i just download this awesome editor and i am having ALOT of fun to change all the sprites of the character so far.

I am trying to make Luigi and Mario as Luke and Gort, so far i used Gort sprites and made Luigi he look pretty awesome, blue with green during the battle and blue/green outside the battle so no problem here.

But then with Luke as Mario he's okay outside the battle blue/red, but in the Battle he's blue/green i wonder how to make him blue/red i tried to change the palette, but here what happend.

Go to to the palette option and.

Force Sprites - 2

Palette 0 (Nothing)
Palette 1 (Nothing)

I cannot change the colors, any idea why?

Anyway i also want to know how to make pure healer for the enemy like if a enemy is hurt that monster will run and heal that monster right away and do nothing else, but heal the injuries.

So far i did a good job with this, the monster are healing each other, but it's normaly luck they almost always wait and heal theyself if they are hurt and do nothing else during the whole battle useless another monster is hurt right beside them.

Thanks. ^^

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29 2010 2:48pm
by Lobo
I think Rubix is still to develop the palette editor.

Will the priest give them mushrooms for promotion? :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30 2010 2:05am
by Vegeta9001
More like a Star or something. ^^

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15 2011 5:53pm
by Chaiman
Sorry for doing this, but seems that this message is just an "up"...
Had anyone seen Rubix recently? I mean, if he's developing some other thing - it's okay, just want to know. Maybe he has he a site of his own?

Sorry for offtopic :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15 2011 6:39pm
by Special T
He's been missing for about a month :(

Hopefully he's doing ok and is just working on other projects.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18 2011 5:53am
by rubixcuber
Sorry, haven't been active in a while. Kind of a mix of distracted and unmotivated.

I may work on this some more soon, but no promises.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18 2011 8:08am
by Flygon
Oh thank god you posted! I tried to catch you via AIM and got no reply!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18 2011 9:55am
by tggrng123
Lol yeah he needs a break you guys :p. He's done so much already! The program is great!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18 2011 3:13pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber @ Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:53 am) wrote: Sorry, haven't been active in a while. Kind of a mix of distracted and unmotivated.

I may work on this some more soon, but no promises.

Hey, Rubix!
Take as long as you will need, but don't forget us here! :) :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19 2011 2:08pm
by Special T
Lobo @ Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:13 pm) wrote: Take as long as you will need, but don't forget us here!

I agree, you're doing us all a favor by creating this amazing editor for free on your own time, so take your time and hopefully we'll hear from you soon :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07 2011 5:18am
by B-Dub
Wow...trying to catch up thru these 30 pages of posts is time consuming (took 4 days). Anyways, yes I agree with everyone that the editor is great (beyond anything I'd every expected for a Genesis game, that's for sure!). And after seeing all the work Rubix has put in, I agree with everyone that he could certainly use a break.

So I kinda feel bad about making a request when Rubix does find the drive to work on his magnificent project again (especially considering how few times I've posted), but here's an idea that I haven't heard from anyone yet.

Would there be any way to add multiple phrases/conversations with members in the HQ for each chapter? I know that everyone says something different when in the ship HQ than in the land HQ, but I was more thinking more like having a progressive story expanding with each character as the chapters progress (not cheesy like RotDD, but more like how everyone would change and trust Max more as the game goes on). Or even if it's possible to make each HQ unique with the conversations you have with members.

I totally understand if this request seems unreasonable, as to me it sounds like it would require creating code to do or adding and attaching many new lines of text. But if this is possible without too much effort, maybe you could consider adding this feature to the editor. Thanks for the time and thanks again for the editor where it is, now!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07 2011 5:13pm
by Kaihaku
I'm tempted to create an inversed version of the original Shining Force in which Kane is the hero, Max wears the dark mask, Guardiana rather than Protectora becomes Runefaust, Varios takes on the tragic part of General Elliot, and, essentially, most of the battle maps are played through in the opposite order.

So, my question is...just how much work would that be with this editor? Many of the playable characters would become enemies, some of the enemy characters would become playable, and I'd imagine that I'd have to add in a lot of new playable characters to fill out the rooster.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07 2011 7:27pm
by Lobo
Kaihaku wrote:I'm tempted to create an inversed version of the original Shining Force in which Kane is the hero, Max wears the dark mask, Guardiana rather than Protectora becomes Runefaust, Varios takes on the tragic part of General Elliot, and, essentially, most of the battle maps are played through in the opposite order.

So, my question is...just how much work would that be with this editor? Many of the playable characters would become enemies, some of the enemy characters would become playable, and I'd imagine that I'd have to add in a lot of new playable characters to fill out the rooster.


That seems great and I'd definetly take a shot at it!
Unfortunately, I think it's not possible to make such a thing now as the storyline editor isn't available yet.

But it's plenty of work to do, so of course you can start the project by messing characters and enemies, battles, maps, conversation lines and so on... :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09 2011 5:59am
by tggrng123
There's also not a event editor yet (at least specific to storyline events). That would be very useful.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09 2011 2:22pm
by Lobo
That's what I said! mwahaha

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10 2011 11:33pm
by Kaihaku
Thanks for the answers... I don't think I'll get started on that project just yet then but good to know.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17 2011 6:07pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, where were we?

I might get back into working on this some more.

If I could get everyone to post/PM information on bugs or incomplete/requested features I'll try to put together my todo list again and start knocking things out when I have free time.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18 2011 7:32pm
by Lobo
Haven't messed with it for a while by now, but maybe you could work on the palette editor, which would make the graphs editor a whole more complete.
Later on, we have the storyline editor in the to-do list.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19 2011 5:04am
by Special T
I'm glad to see you're back rubixcuber :-)

I posted in your refix thread about issues when I was testing your patch on actual software. It's nothing big and I think the palette / storyline editor are far more important but I figured I'd mention it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05 2011 9:17pm
by Chaiman
Hello, Rubix!
Thanks for you're here once again! :)
The only thing I might ask is to read my posts at page #30 of this topic.
Since my last post I could add only that changing NPC also breaks teleports..
And what's more - some NPC don't change their place, even if editor shows that they did. I mean, I placed Gort on map 3 to another location (changed coordinates) for the fist time it worked but after I edited map 3 Gort had returned tj his old place. Newertheless editor shows that he must be at the new place..
Just separate saving chests, pictures and maps from each other, please..

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28 2011 2:59am
by Musou
Very nice!

I do have a few questions:

How does one change the spell list and/or special attacks (such as a Sleep-inflicting bite) for enemies?

And what do each of the AI boxes represent?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04 2011 4:06pm
by Chaiman
Musou wrote:Very nice!
I do have a few questions:
How does one change the spell list and/or special attacks (such as a Sleep-inflicting bite) for enemies?
And what do each of the AI boxes represent?


I believe that's for different AI areas.
You see, there are 8 AI regions and 8 AI checkboxes. And there are 2 options which you could set as you wish with integer values up to 255. That values means whatever AI character will do - attack/retreat/casting spells/use items/etc... And checkboxes are there to link the behaviour with the AI region.
For example value1=255 and value2=0 is for attacking. If you want some enemy to attack while standing on the 1st AI region's square - tick first checkbox. If you want enmy to do so (e.g. attack) on the 3rd and 5th areas - tick the corresponding boxes.
Thus you could create an enemy, who will act different depending on your character's position.
WARNING: SPOILER!

Oh, and the AI regions could be set on the map editor section.
If you couldn't find where exactly - just tell me and I'll show you ;)

PS: If anyone want to have complete (at least I'll include everything I know about editor) faq - I could do one. But nevertheless anyone who wants this faq should read help by Rubix first. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13 2011 10:51pm
by tggrng123
Just out of curiosity, what programming language are you using for this?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20 2011 2:21pm
by Flygon
Going by recollection, he uses C++ for this application. Though, my memory isn't always to be trusted, admittedly.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu May 05 2011 4:07pm
by goofydude
I started playing around with this, but noticed I did something that caused a huge error... for some reason, now during battles I can walk through enemies.

Ok not a HUGE error, but, while it could be neat I like the chess effect of the game where you can't move through enemy pieces (don't start blabbling *yes blabbling* about knights...).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25 2011 11:37pm
by sulfuroxp
is possible to edit the text intro???

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31 2011 6:03pm
by tggrng123
No updates? :/

SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02 2011 7:17pm
by wsb1874
Does anyone know which music number goes with which song in the game? I want to change some of the battle musics to the castle music in prompt and also the Shade Abbey music and others just to switch it up.

Also, if anyone has any info on any other sound and music related stuff, I am curious to hear it. Thanks

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 5:16am
by dragonsl5
hey guys i've got a question about changing when a character gets added to the force for example hanzou is there a way for him to be added into the force earlier on so he can be somewhat useful using this editor?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 5:56am
by masqurinmage
no, and he's already one of the most useful characters in the game, if you got him early the game would be even more ridiculously easy than it already is.... why would you put someone overpowered as much as hanzo or musashi in your force so early? isn't zylo good enough?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 5:59am
by dragonsl5
i was just using that as an example you know to state my point and to be honest i never use him because you get him way to late in the game a level 10 at the very end of the game isn't exactly that useful in my opinion

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 6:13am
by masqurinmage
how is that not useful...? you can beat the game at level 10 promoted with very little complications

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 6:19am
by dragonsl5
whatever my point is i was just using that specific character as an example

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 8:20am
by Noma
Masquirin, you're not really being helpful at this point. You came to the topic to respond to his question without the answer and to simply tell him he shouldn't want to add Hanzou in earlier, which is irrelevant.

Anyway, I don't believe you can edit when the character joins your force with this editor. That said, you can always use a hacked version that allows all characters to be unlocked from the start of the game and just put him in at the point you'd like to you use him. I know it's not quite the same, but it's better than nothing. I'm sure there's also a way to hack the rom and unlock his character only from the very beginning, but I'm not very good at hacking, so.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 5:09pm
by masqurinmage
i did answer his question with "no" and i elaborated with the point that getting someone earlier than you should would make the game ridiculous.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 5:31pm
by Noma
masqurinmage wrote:i did answer his question with "no" and i elaborated with the point that getting someone earlier than you should would make the game ridiculous.


You elaborated with your opinion that had no bearing on what he wanted to do, likely for personal pleasure, in a tone that was kind of condescending. I just thought it was sort of unnecessarily rude, is all.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04 2011 7:58pm
by dragonsl5
Noma wrote:
masqurinmage wrote:i did answer his question with "no" and i elaborated with the point that getting someone earlier than you should would make the game ridiculous.


You elaborated with your opinion that had no bearing on what he wanted to do, likely for personal pleasure, in a tone that was kind of condescending. I just thought it was sort of unnecessarily rude, is all.


don't worry about it dude the internet is full of people like that guy i've learned to just ignore him and thank you for your answer

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11 2011 8:26pm
by wsb1874
Ok. Since no one has responded to my question about music, I figured that no one had it handy. So, I decided to tackle it. My descriptions of the music may not be completely accurate as it has been years since I have played through this game. (battle #s are based on the editor) Here is what I found:

0-battle #1 music
3-town music
4-elf girl (sylvia?) intro music with no bassline
5-elf girl intro music with bassline
6-action screen music
7-shining force intro music
8-battle #1 music
9-battle #12 music
10-battle #0 music
11-sad town music? (guardinia after being attacked?)
15-death of the king? (sound bite)
16-battle #3 music
17-(silent)
18-headquarters music
19-battle #0 music REMIX!
20-Kane Dies? (sound bite)
23-battle #28 music (Darksol showdown)
24-shade abbey music
33-sea voyage music
34-castle music (prompt, etc.)
35-shining force title screen (sound bite)
36-battle #29 music (Dark Dragon showdown)
37-dark dragon defeated? (sound bite)
38-battle #0 music REMIXED AGAIN (better and may be from the ending? I haven't watched it in over 10 years)
39-soft and sweet ending music?


I checked 0-99 and this was all that was useful in my opinion. I did uncover some more various sound bites, but no worthwhile music. If you are looking for a particular sound bite, let me know. I have most of them written down.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18 2011 3:05pm
by katgirlfeli
Hello all, long time no see :p

It appears as though Enemies cannot use Expanded Spells #17-32. Is it possible to allow them to be able to use them? Or must I copy Force-Only spells I plan on having into said slots? (I don't believe I plan on having CPUs use certain spells (especially Egress), so I could copy those over to the 17-32nd spell slots for the Force to use and have my CPUs use Spells in slots 1-16).

Also, it is at all possible to have some kind of Copy/Paste feature to the art to copy one image and paste it in another area? It gets tired re-drawing all these abilities into the other slots o.o.

Anyway, that's all for now xD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19 2011 3:49am
by Earl
I don't have anything useful to say...

But it's good to see you around again.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21 2011 11:23am
by Doomblade66
I remember katgirl from days long past ...

..anyways....if I remember right from my own mod work.....no...enemies cannot use spells from the Expanded Slots...in fact, they crash the game when they try to cast them, if memory serves.

The solution is complicated and time-consuming...but perhaps the only way.

You have to expand the slots first of all (and the ROM). Once done... go into the Spell List and note the existing spells. Any "bonus spells" you want the Force characters to learn and cast you can create in the expanded slots....your Force members can cast these just fine for some reason.

Use the "existing spell slots" for enemies to cast spells from - so, in battle, make sure you are only using spell numbers (09, 10, 12, etc) - that were of the existing spells when you first opened the Spells tab in the Editor.

The annoying / unfortunate thing about this is ...if you had any hopes of making some unique enemy spells (as I did for my Challenge-mod, at points) ...you are severely limited because you can only use those Existing Spell Slots ...and to create any NEW spells, means you must "over-write" some of the original spells. You could still use those spells again, but you'd have to copy over the exact effects and then painstakingly recreate the image in the picture-of-the-spell editor thing.... in one of the NEW expanded slots, so your team can still cast the "old spell".


Yes...as you can see...very annoying. I probably spent...dozens of hours on my mod, all told. Sometimes I'd spend 4-5 hours during a Saturday afternoon, just recreating 2-3 spells - then calling it a day. It was a labor of love, in that I really enjoy the Shining Series, and wanted to make something that all my Shining buddies here and around the world could play and enjoy...but..man...it was time-consuming and took a bunch of trial and error till I "got it right".



Anyways...hope this info is useful katgirl / et al.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21 2011 9:32pm
by dragonsl5
not really sure if this is where i should post this but i figured it would be a good place

i was looking around in the editor and started wondering about changing the EXP to be more like SF2 where you can keep the excess EXP from your levels and maybe being able to get more then 48 or 49 exp max when you kill more then 1 guy. Is it possible to do that via the editor or maybe with a hex editor?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23 2011 3:32pm
by katgirlfeli
Hm A bug to announce, though considering when the previous update was, users of it will probably be aware of it already:

There seems to be a limit to the Monster Name data, where the amount of characters that can be used for monster's names is limited (the total sum of characters of ALL monster names).

For example, a short list of names consists of: XXXXXXXXXX*Goblin*Dark Dragon*Rune Knight*XXXXXXXXXX
X simply represents data belonging to other sections. There are 10 on both sides.

Adding the total characters from the names, we have 6 in Goblin, 11 for Dark Dragon, and 11 for Rune Knight, a total of 28. The data is read and saved from particular sectors, and with the current save routine, if there's too much data to save, it'll start saving over other data.

If I change the name of Goblin to Super Goblin and save it, the following happens:

XXXXXXXXXX*Super Goblin*Dark Dragon*Rune Knight*XXXX

Now here's the problem, the "Super " string added 6 characters to the name list, but the max size of the list was 28. Now that there's 34 characters in the name list, the last 6 (night*) is being overwritten into other data (six of the Xs are now night*).

If you go past this limit, the overflow is being saved over Class Data, screwing over the SWMN class with random values (dunno how far this goes, but i assume it'll keep overflowing into other classes).

The only solution I can come up with is that if plan on making a monster's name longer, be ready to make another monster's name (or combination of other names) equally shorter, so that the total length of the monster name string doesn't get so long where it starts to overflow into the Class data, therefore:

XXXXXXX*Super Goblin*Dark Drago*Knight*XXXXXXXXXX

Doing something like this, so long as I am understanding the issue correctly, should make your game work properly.

While we're at it, be careful with modifying Character and Item Names, as this problem may also happen with them. I haven't tested as such, but just giving a warning.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24 2011 10:11am
by Doomblade66
Yes, this is something I discovered, and talked with RubixCuber a lot about via messages during my Mod work // testing. Rubix explained (as I recall) that the Shining Force programming was very awkward and compacted - compared to what they COULD have done, even back in those days. They effectively limited the TOTAL size of the Game File - if you will - and that's all you have to work with in the actual Editor. I'm simplifying the actual wording a bit, but that's the general sense.

So if they allotted "1000-words" to the Monster Name Section - that's ALL the space they gave for that. If you go even 1-character beyond, you screw the entire program up and get overwritten data, as you noted, messing everything up horribly.

That's why, when actually working on my Challenge Mod, I spent probably 15-20 minutes, at some points, using Dictionary and Thesaurus online checks to find comparable names for Monsters, Spells, Weapons, etc- that didn't go over the original number of characters used for those sections. So...for example...if a monster was named "Rune Knight", you could modify it to, only, "Knight"....and you'd save 5 total characters - the four from the word R-U-N-E, plus the "space" between that and Knight.

You could then go to your Goblin and change it to "SuperGoblin" - which would fit, but is kind of compacted and maybe not the best visual way you could do it.

A better option might be "Mega-Goblin", with a hyphen, in between. That would be 4 (Mega) + 1 (hyphen) to use up the 5 characters we "saved" for getting rid of Rune, plus the "space" - in Rune Knight.


That's the way it works - primitive, but the only option one has if they want to mess around with the game file.

;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25 2011 10:00pm
by katgirlfeli
Seems like rubixcuber hasn't been around too much lately. Aside from working on other projects, maybe not getting enough nagging from me to implement different things since I haven't been around? ;p

Any idea of the limit for Spell names? Are the spell names for extended spells located elsewhere so they aren't affected by the first list of spells?

Hey, didn't some weapons (like the Valkyrie and Holy Staff) grant HP Regeneration to Allies? I thought one of the older builds found this values and put it in the "Item" section of the editor, but doesn't seem to be there now. Did this once exist or am I mistaken? Was kinda wanting the "White Ring" to also allow this sort of regeneration while equipped.

The game has a perfectly nice battle pallet for a pink goblin, pink dark dwarf, a Red Lizardman, a Silver Minotaur, and also a Purple and Blue Dark Dragon, yet no map sprite to match those colors. Might still use them regardless, just a little disappointing that the presentation would be a little off if i do ><

While Desoul will instantly kill an enemy regardless of health, Doom Blade's effect does not INSTANTLY kill its targets. Instead, it inflicts 99 damage to them. I'm not saying that dealing 99 damage in a blow isn't amazing, but in a game where you're gonna try to possibly increase an enemy's health past that end game, the Doom Blade (or similar effect) will not "kill them in one blow". I'll probably still use it (probably edit the text in the editor (haven't checked if its there or not), to not imply they were killed in one blow but were dealt critical damage instead), but wondering if its possible to fine this value and increase its damage.

There's nothing in the editor to determine which monster is considered the "Boss" monster, nor is there that determines whether an enemy can be afflicted with certain status ailments. It has nothing to do with whether they have a boss ID on the map, due to the Rune Knight is Desoul-able, so it must be within the Monster or Monster Class editor. I tried checking every check box but nothing there determines it, so there must be something else that decides this, hidden in there.

I saw in a few of the last pages of posts and you guys bring up an "all-walkable" issue. Be sure to check Max's SWMN/HERO Movement Type and make sure its not some crazy value due to writing your monster names too long. By default, this value should be 1. Overwriting the SDMN in this way may give Max a weird movement type, allowing him to walk through anything. (In my mod, it also gave him 37% Land Effect, and he couldn't move in Battle, but based on the value that ends up being filled in there, your experience with it may vary). Hopefully that helps anyone with the issue.

Do Enemy Units have Critical Ratings, or there a global value for enemies?

**BIG ISSUE/BUG** In my Shining Force mod, I am currently testing and editing battles, playing through battle by battle. I've come up with an issue where some spells fail to take effect at all. The player/enemy targets the spot like normal, and when the battle screen comes up, it acts as if there are no targets, the person loses MP, and the battle screen ends, doing nothing but taking your MP away. It doesn't happen all the time, and I do not know what triggers it. If anyone has any idea how or why that happens, please let me know >< (so far its done it with the standard in game range of 37, the default 2 range, 5 area attack. I haven't gotten far enough to test wider areas. I do have expanded ranges active). Did a few more tests with a 13 area target and once it covered 4 enemies and only hit two of them. Another time, it covered only three enemies yet hit four of them =/

Anything else I can think of i'll post here o.x;

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07 2011 3:12am
by tggrng123
Yes the character glitch actually made my mod unplayable because it made the game freeze when fighting an Artillery :/.

Wish that rubixcuber was active on this project or at the very least, let us know what's up. It's almost been a whole year of no activity on the project.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10 2011 5:59am
by katgirlfeli
Rubix, I need you! Please come back and fix your advanced areas programming. Its causing issues with most area abilities causing the declared targets to NOT be the ones the game actually declares the attacks on (or doesn't attack anything).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10 2011 1:09pm
by Lobo
If you're starting a 'Rubix, come back!' campaign, count me in! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02 2011 6:45am
by tggrng123
Lobo wrote:If you're starting a 'Rubix, come back!' campaign, count me in! :)

I will second that motion! All in favor, say aye.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10 2011 12:44pm
by Flygon
I'll poke him next time I see him online on my IM's.

For people a bit confused by some of the games intricacies (such as name lengths), feel free to whack me up on MSN or AIM.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23 2011 12:45am
by tggrng123
Could there be a possibility of him releasing the source code? Maybe then someone can pick up from there or maybe it could become a community project. Just wishful thinking of course.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23 2011 8:01pm
by Doomblade66
The main things I'd like to be able to have working in a "final" or "updated to some extent" version of the Editor would be the following:

- Be able to edit the HP REGEN special status for enemies so that it is not just a base +25% of total HP per round, but an adjustable %, or even a flat value like "+25 HP" or "+30 HP", etc. etc.

- Be able to expand the Monster list even more to allow for 5-10 more monsters to be thrown into the game

- Get the Graphical Palette editor working so I can actually change "in-battle colors" for a given monster, AND then explore the "Battle Pallettes" so I could make the "newly colored unit" look visually different-colored on the actual "map screen" as you are moving your units around.


That'd be cool if any / all of those eventually happened. Though....none of them are critical to actual gameplay, they are nice to have - if ever available.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28 2011 12:22am
by katgirlfeli
I don't know your MSN or AIM, Flygon, though you should playtest my mod, since i playtested yours. Mine's a bit over halfway done though i should get another person to test it, ohoho

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11 2012 5:20pm
by tggrng123
katgirlfeli wrote:I don't know your MSN or AIM, Flygon, though you should playtest my mod, since i playtested yours. Mine's a bit over halfway done though i should get another person to test it, ohoho


I'll do some testing if you like :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18 2012 4:20am
by Doc105
I think this deserves a revival. If anyone is with me, what do you say we find out what we can accomplish.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20 2012 5:23am
by Wetwille
I agree. I have SFIEdit, yet wish there was more to it (mayby a guide to AI's, as they always screw up for me) :damnit:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21 2012 1:18pm
by Flygon
I haven't seen rubix at all.

Sorry.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21 2012 2:20pm
by Wetwille
When will he return? We need you Rubixcuber!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30 2012 12:02pm
by tggrng123
Last time he even logged in was last April (at least in the forums anyways)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30 2012 12:44pm
by Lobo
Doc105 wrote:I think this deserves a revival. If anyone is with me, what do you say we find out what we can accomplish.


If you're talking about filling in for rubixcuber, well, I don't know anything about hex editing.
All I can do is to point out what's in need of fixing or developing, and I would love to help that way. :)

I rather rubix would make a full comeback though... :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01 2012 4:13am
by Doc105
Rubix coming back is ideal, he knows a LOT more about the games inner workings than any of the rest us at this point, I used to hex edit but I lost all of my old notes. Really just a few last polishes I really wanted finished and, I think they are something the rest of us could figure out with a lil luck... (for instance I found recently changing stat caps to 127 seems to remove the enemy infinite MP) I am gonna start changing things and seeing what values change in my hex editor to start re-mapping things, this could take a while :damnit:

Also, I apologize in advance, past possibly finding fixes via hex editing, actually working on the editor is going to require much more experianced skills. (though I will still give it a shot, I have a lot of free time lately) :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01 2012 8:00pm
by tggrng123
Well someone could go all out and ASM the editor itself. Unfortunately that's extremely difficult even if you know what you're doing.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02 2012 12:10am
by Wetwille
Is there any way other than the forums to get in contact with Rubix?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13 2012 1:53pm
by Lobo
I've been having problems with the battle editor.

In some maps, I can't properly edit the areas used by the AI system.
In fact, I do edit them, but when I save the rom, the area numbers turn different. And the more I keep changing and saving them, the more crazy the areas become.

I noticed that happening on Dragonia's battle map (battle against Kane) and on Colossus' battle map.
Did anyone have the same problem?
Any ideas how to solve it?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15 2012 5:56am
by Wetwille
I usually leave them alone because ther isn't much use in changing them unless you want them to do a sneak attack

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15 2012 1:47pm
by Lobo
I humbly disagree.
I found much use for this area system on my mod attempt.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15 2012 8:55pm
by Wetwille
Such as?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15 2012 9:45pm
by Lobo
If you don't use them you'll probably stick with the "1 255 255" AI, which is fine but if it's that predictable, you can just 'go fishing' the enemies througout the map, battling only one or two of them each time.

Using the areas, you can set 'battle squads' among the enemy army, meaning all enemies from the squad will attack together whenever a character gets to the specific area.
That's how I plan it anyway...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15 2012 9:51pm
by Wetwille
Ah, I see.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 6:27am
by rubixcuber
It has been a while hasn't it? Been busy with real life and other projects, and honestly every time I think about coming back to this it just seems like there's a lot of work to get familiar with all of the workings of the game and the editor and everything again...

I'm giving some thought to working on it some again, if there's enough interest, and I can get myself reasonably reacquainted with things...

Edit: Also... if someone sends me a PM here it sends me an email notification. Since I hadn't gotten a single PM in the time I was gone, I kind of figured it was still pretty dead around here... But that is a perfectly good way to get my attention outside of the forum.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 6:32am
by Wetwille
Is there a way to take the battle sprites from one mod and put them in another? I keep doing an export-import cycle and nothing changes

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 6:42am
by rubixcuber
Well, this is partially off the top of my head and been a long time since I've messed with it, so forgive me if I'm crazy.

The easiest way to move things between two different ROMs should be the Change feature I added though. You just open the ROM that has the data you want to use. Then go to File->Change and open the file you want to move the data to. This will open the file, but keep all of the data you have loaded. Then you just go section you want and save.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 6:45am
by Wetwille
Ok, thanks, I'll try that

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 8:57am
by Earl
A while ago in #sf2hack, Flygon mentioned a previously unknown scene with Jogurt in Prompt... he had a savestate of it, but we couldn't figure out how to reproduce it. Since I've been playing around with stuff in SF2, I thought I'd give it a look but SF1 apparently handles events differently so that was a bust.

I was wondering if...
A) You know how SF1 does handle that stuff, even if it's not in your editor because it's in some weird format that makes it difficult to add...
B) You know *where* that data would be, but haven't messed with it at all...
C) You'd be willing to post some documentation of the ROM layout so if that stuff is unknown we can at least narrow down where to look, and to help any future hackers understand how things work.

I know I wouldn't have been able to get anywhere without BNC's notes on SF2.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 9:22am
by rubixcuber
Unfortunately, I don't have any info specifically relating to the event stuff to pass on.

I did have a very nice color coded post of all of the ROM locations for pretty much everything I knew, but that seems to have been lost in a forum move or something... I'll try to put something up in a minute.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 9:38am
by Earl
Also, good to see you around again.

When I came up empty, the first thing I tried was to look for dialogue lines. But either I'm missing something, or dialogue is being handled in a way I'm not familiar with... I mean, when I look under map>sprites, the dialogues for given entities on the map are listed... but for the life of me I have no idea how those numbers correspond to the line numbers given in the dialogue section (once you decompress the text).

In SF2, many events begin with a dialogue index, so searching for the hex of the first line of dialogue in an event will often bring you right to the start of that event. I don't know if it'd work that way in SF1, but it's something to try... except as I said, I couldn't even make the lines from the townspeople jibe in a sensible way with the line numbers I was seeing, so that was as far as I got.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 9:47am
by rubixcuber
Found it!

Here you are. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17663

I will have to look at the event/dialog stuff. I'm not familiar with how SF2 does it, but there are a lot of things they did differently.

Edit: It's been a while since I've looked at this stuff, but I believe the dialog numbers are sort of banked for each map, and there's a table at 11B14-11B49 which has the starting number for each map, so you combine the two to get the actual line number from the decompressed text.

Do you have any details on how SF2 does it? That might help me do some research of my own.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 10:12am
by Earl
That makes a hell of a lot more sense than the hare-brained stuff I was guessing.

May not be much help pinpointing the event stuff - that may have it's own table that gives you a number that you need to add - but one problem at a time, right? And maybe it's easy; maybe events only care about what map they're on and there is no other table.

And thanks for finding that post! I have no idea how I missed that back in the day. Or maybe that was all over my head at the time. Either way, it's great to have now.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 2:29pm
by Wetwille
YES!!!! Max's wings and Tao's pink dress have returned!

Rubix- do you know how to make Jogurt gain levels? I've tried everything I know and nothing's worked.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 8:31pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I know now!

02:4718 67 08 BEQ #$08 -> 4E 71
02:488C 66 0C BNE #$0C -> 60 0C

So, in a hex editor go to offset x24718 and change 6708 to 4E71
Then go to offset x2488C and change 660C to 600C

That should do it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26 2012 9:01pm
by Wetwille
Thanks! I just made the changes, now to test it!

EDIT: VICRTORY!!!! JOGURT IS LEVEL 2!!!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27 2012 1:19am
by rubixcuber
Hey, look, an update!

Well, this really should have been done a long time ago, sorry about that.

The palette editor should be fixed and working nicely now, and I went ahead and threw the Jogurt leveling change into the mechanics section.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27 2012 2:12am
by Wetwille
The Jogurt level part will probably be a joy go many people because it gives access to another character to edit and play around with.

I actually learned something about Jogurt while testing this out; he doesn't level to 1 every time, he is just kept from leveling. for example, I hacked his level to 2 and his XP to 99, attacked a goblin, and it said "... It appears that Jogurt's level increases to 2" and raised all his stats by 3 (the stat growths were inputed into SFIEdit at 63) :shock:
So it is possible to save-state hack in Jogurt's levels :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27 2012 7:29am
by Earl
rubixcuber wrote:Do you have any details on how SF2 does it? That might help me do some research of my own.

It's pretty different.

Image

The pointers at the top aim at the 6 sections as listed. Which pointer list is used depends on what flags have been checked (so if you've finished battle 6, you go to Galam-invaded Granseal, for example).

In the dialogues, 80 is the index for the first entity in the entity setup, 03 I think is how many lines the guy has, the 0008 is telling us how many bytes from the beginning of the section it is for that entity's lines. The FD chunk is telling us how many bytes are in the entire dialogue section... the traps are flag sets/checks while trap 5 is separating the lines themselves. So 0E3D and so on are the lines being used.

The format for the triggers is kind of similar - the first pair of bytes are x/y coordinates, the second pair are how many bytes from the beginning to look, the FD is the same as before... trap 1 is checking flags, trap 2 setting them. The LEA then hops to the event itself in the final section.

I have the event data color coded by command...
0400 0E3A is the dialogue index. It's telling us "When dialogue is called for by other commands, the first line will be 0E3A." And when more dialogue is called, it will go in sequence from there so the second time dialogue is called for, the line will given will be 0E3B.

0015 is an actscript change, 0029 moves an actor to a specific spot, 0023 changes actor facing...

I'm not sure *how* those commands are being defined and understood, but I can tell you *where*... The first 8 commands:
Code: Select all
 0000:0004724A Abs   csc00_displaySingleTextbox
 0000:0004729E Abs   csc01_displaySingleTextboxWithVars
 0000:000472EE Abs   csc02_displayTextbox
 0000:00047332 Abs   csc03_displayTextboxWithVars
 0000:00047372 Abs   csc04_setTextIndex
 0000:00047378 Abs   csc05_playSound
 0000:00047380 Abs   csc06_doNothing
 0000:00047382 Abs   csc07_executeMapSystemEvent
 0000:00047398 Abs   csc08_joinForce

Although I never saw 03 or 06 actually being used... but maybe some of these things are done in a similar way in SF1 even if the events don't take on the same 00xx format.


One other thing:
I did try looking for trigger coordinates (from where Lowe rushes you at the very beginning), but that search was... a little too bountiful. Maybe another event (like the guards blocking the exit?) would be more fruitful/less obnoxious. Then again, I never learned how to run a trace (or in what context that would be useful) so maybe that would turn something up.

I'm picking up a bit of ASM here and there, but 'run a trace' is still a magical phrase to me :blush:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27 2012 12:40pm
by Wetwille
I can only see this as useful if you want to change the game entirely into your own. Idk what you want to do with it, but that's all I'm getting from it

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27 2012 2:53pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber wrote:Hey, look, an update!

Well, this really should have been done a long time ago, sorry about that.

The palette editor should be fixed and working nicely now, and I went ahead and threw the Jogurt leveling change into the mechanics section.



Hoooray!!!!!! Rubix's back!!! :excited:

The fix on the palette editor was much needed!
I'll test it by the next couple of days and return here with comments.

As you're messing with graphical stuff, you could fix the export/import of frames for Adam and Chimaera on attack screen.
They both have an error, with Adam importing one frame from Zylo and Chimaera importing one from Wyvern.

Also, I'll try to organize a to-do list for the editor, so you won't say there's lack of interest here. :thumbsup: :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27 2012 4:29pm
by rubixcuber
I shall take a look!

I'll probably figure this out before you see and reply, but do you mean into and out of the rom, or the actual image file import/export?

Edit: Oh, I see what you mean, they even act as the same picture in the editor and changing one changes the other... That shouldn't be a hard fix, but not sure why that happened yet...


Ok, done and updated! That was a silly mistake, I had just not realized that anyone had a 7th frame of graphics and only allocated memory for 6. I just had never realized that it was happening!

Anyways, yes, please do keep it up. It's kind of hard for me to sift through everything and figure out which bugs and things still need to be worked on.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27 2012 4:55pm
by Lobo
Thanks! :thumbsup:
I'll try a harder one next time! ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27 2012 9:28pm
by rubixcuber
Looking into the event system now.

Had some more information here, but pulling that out for a moment until I have a better understanding of how it works.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28 2012 4:38am
by Lobo
rubixcuber wrote:Hey, look, an update!

Well, this really should have been done a long time ago, sorry about that.

The palette editor should be fixed and working nicely now, and I went ahead and threw the Jogurt leveling change into the mechanics section.


Just started to test it and it seems to work fine.
Haven't played the rom yet, but the changes made on the palette editor are showing right on the graphics editor. At least for battle sprites.
Force knights and paladins battle sprites are showing right too this time. :thumbsup:

Found some issues though...

1) Enemies battle sprites #27 (Artillery) and #31 (Darksol) seems to be completely wrecked for frames 1 and 2. (Maybe it's because both sprites have only 1 palette?)
The same issue does not occur to force sprites, even as Domingo got only 1 palette also.

2) In palette editor, I can only edit up to 2 palettes for enemies battle sprites and up to 4 palettes for force battle sprites. It's not sufficient, as by default, enemies mages, for example, use 3 palettes and force knights use 6 palettes.

3) For some reason, enemies map sprites does not show the correct palette, but the same palette as force map sprites. It seems to be corrected once you run the rom (at least it did until last version of the editor), but it just doesn't show right on the graphics editor, making it hard for us to edit those sprites, as their colors are mischanged.


I think issue #1 is more critical for now and hopefuly easier to fix.
As for issue #2, I suggest the graphic editor would allow us to add/subtract palettes (and frames) for battle sprites (maybe limited to 6 palettes for each sprite, if there's no determined 'total number of palettes' of any sort) and the palette editor would show the right number of palettes we set for each sprite.


Uh-oh, sorry for the long post. I hope it's understandable. :(

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28 2012 5:51am
by rubixcuber
Alright, new version is up.

Yeah, I guess I didn't realize just how bad the palette editor was...
Anyways, I scrapped the load and save routines for the sprite palettes and grabbed the ones out of the graphics editor, that should fix issue #1. The palette editor seemed to assume there were at least two enemy sprite palettes before.

I also added support for the other palettes in the editor which takes care of #2.

Unfortunately I don't have an easy answer for #3. The sprite graphics are just all together in one big block, not tied to any palettes. I chose to display them with that palette, because it works for the early ones. I guess I could let you cycle through different palettes for viewing, but there's no way really to tie them to a good palette.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28 2012 8:32am
by Earl
3) Check the sprite number and switch to the enemy palette after a certain point?


Just to get myself used to it, I tried a trace to look for event/trigger stuff first with SF2. Since I knew the address I was looking for, I was able to find it in the log pretty quickly, although if I hadn't known to begin with there were some other addresses being coughed up nearby that would have ballparked me.

Trying the same in SF1... I haven't had any luck sifting through the results so far. Checked out a few addresses, but what was there didn't look promising. The first time SF2 referenced the address I'd have been looking for, it was after a CLR... I was crossing my fingers that there'd be some commonality, but no dice. Maybe I ought to give it a go using a different event...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28 2012 8:45am
by rubixcuber
Well, I suppose that would be good enough for now. It's just that technically any of these sprites could be used with any given palette, and there's no reason why one of the enemy sprites couldn't be changed to be used for a force member, etc.

I did some research on the events earlier.

For the very first event with Lowe and Varios, RAM addresses FF502C and FF502D are quite relevant.

And I was thinking I was on to something with the tables at x80EFE and x15FD2, but not so sure now...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28 2012 9:13am
by Earl
If you know how flags are being set or checked (SF2 uses trap 1/2 for check/set), then maybe the problem could be worked from the opposite angle?

In SF2, most of the time when story flags are being set they're doing so in the trigger data. So if you run across the code for a flag set in the middle of some unknown chunk of data, that might be the triggers/events.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28 2012 5:19pm
by rubixcuber
I believe it's just handled by setting a bit in RAM. I have no idea why you would use a TRAP statement for that, and I'm not getting a single TRAP statement in my trace of triggering the event where Lowe walks up to you in the beginning.

Though, since that scene is basically the first thing that happens in the game, maybe they didn't use the normal event system for it, or bother with a flag. Probably worth going and tracing a different event.

The event flags are at FF9C4E in RAM and the first bit of FF9C56 is the event where Lowe runs up to you.

I'll take your word that SF2 uses TRAPs, but looks like SF1 does not.

Here's how SF1 reads and writes the event flags, for anyone interested:

Loading address of event flags into A6
01:6068 4D F9 LEA ($00FF9C4E),A6
Reading value out of table, using D1 as event number
01:606E 14 36 MOVE.b $00(A6,D1),D2

Moving value back into table
01:6080 1D 82 MOVE.b D2,$00(A6,D1)


Anyways, looks like I was right about the tables. The position for Lowe's event is at x811E6, stored as 08 03!

And the byte before that at x811E5 appears to be the trigger type, with 0F meaning to compare the next two values against your position. Need to test the other possibilities... Looks like 0-1D are valid choices.

Got it mostly figured out now, so making pretty good progress. Partial list of commands:

0 - finish frame
1 - face random direction
2 - face up
3 - face right
4 - face down
5 - face left
6 - rotate clockwise
7 - rotate counter clockwise
8 - move forward, next byte number of squares
9 - restart event
A - clear sprite flag 6?
B - set sprite flag 6?
C - move forward, next byte max number of squares (random)


F - checks next 2 bytes against hero position, wait until match

19 - end event

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 5:51am
by Earl
That's pretty awesome.
How is it deciding which entity to apply those commands to?
And with 19 being the end... why is the check for hero position coming 10 bytes after the last 19? Is it doing some stuff automatically when the map loads (I'd guess whatever's going on with Varios as we fade in?), and waiting for the hero to get into position before going further?

re SF2:
I'm actually not sure how those TRAPs are doing anything (besides the flag stuff, TRAP 0 is used to play sound effects), I just know that when I see one in the ROM, that's corresponding to a given action. How a TRAP translates to bits being set in RAM... *shrug*... all I know is there are several subroutines early on in the disassembly with descriptions like "Trap#_DoSomething"... so I guess each TRAP is being tasked to some particular purpose.

In any case, it's interesting that it's doing these things in such a different way.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 6:29am
by rubixcuber
Well, an event can end with a 9 instead of a 19, which makes it loop instead of end.

Also, these events are tied directly to the npc, each npc has a script that it is running. The Varios and Lowe interactions are both two different sets of events handled by each NPC.

And while I'm at it, more of the commands:

A - clear sprite flag 6?
B - set sprite flag 6?
C - move forward, next byte max number of squares (random)
D - sets script delay to next byte
E - set event pointer to next byte

10 - set hero script to next byte. indexes into 16632?

Might have to have somebody help do some experimenting with A,B and 10 once I make a quick tester in the editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 7:00am
by Earl
By npc? That's in addition to the dir/anim stuff that's in the entity section of the map editor?

I mean, at first I was thinking that this was being applied to people who only exist in special cases (that is, during events). But as far as I can remember, no one in an event is doing something *randomly* like with the C command. Then again, I'm probably thinking of 'event' in the wrong terms...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 7:43am
by rubixcuber
Not sure where it's being set yet. I'm guessing that what I called movement is actually the script number, with some of the basic movement patterns stored as scripts, but that's just a wild guess. I'll have to actually look at it once I finish mapping all the commands.

And yeah, I couldn't think of where C was used either, might have to think on that.

And more commands:

11 - display message, 2 bytes message id (wrong portrait?)
12 - set sprite direction, 1 byte sprite (negative=self) 1 byte direction
13 - various position checks, indexed by next byte (routine at 13A30, check pointers at 13A36)
14 - check event flags set (not clear?) 1 byte bits to check (ANDed with event byte) 1 byte offset into event flags
15 - set event flags, 1 byte bits to set, 1 byte offset into event flags
16 - clear event flags, 1 byte bits to preserve, 1 byte offset into event flags

Getting close to having the main commands pretty well understood at least.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 1:26pm
by Earl
For A/B...
Would that have anything to do with turning one sprite into another? As in, the first time you leave Guardiana you're turned into the carriage, or when you go to Manarina and Max is turned into a chicken...

There's probably other stuff going on with the ship in Waral, since in addition to changing the player sprite it also allows you to move on normally unwalkable blocks.

Looking through SF2's commands and just listing stuff I know can be done in SF1...

Play sound effects...
Change map (might normally be done by teleports, but what about the repositioning between chapters?)...
Join Force... probably lumped in with the other flags? They are in 2...
Block copy... like with the earthquake before battle 1
Screen shake... as above
Prompt yes/no dialog... I think the King of Guardiana gives you one of these at some point?
Start/stop entity animation... isn't Kane unmoving when in Prompt?
Remove entity... when the King dies... does he fade away or just *BOOMnoKing*? I think Kane fades, but I'm not sure...
Move camera/make camera follow entity...
Make entity rush player position if near... like the Guardiana guards initially...
Fade in/out on map...

Those effects might be being handled elsewhere, but if you're looking at things in context and run across new commands those might be possibilities.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 5:10pm
by rubixcuber
The A/B ones didn't have any noticeable effect on Lowe when I tested, don't take an argument of any sort, and only touch a single bit of the sprite table data, in one of the bytes that I'm not sure what it is used for.

This table seems to be just for sprite related stuff, I'm guessing the block transfer and other things are handled separately, there's probably also a per map script with different commands.

And here are the rest of the commands.

17 - face opposite direction
18 - move sprite, 1 byte sprite (negative=self), 2 bytes X Y
19 - end event
1A - set sprite flag (byte 8, 01000000)?
1B - clear sprite flag (byte 8, 01000000)?
1C - lock hero, expires after 256 frames
1D - unlock hero

So, just need to figure out what the flags for the A,B,1A,1B commands do, and what the different commands for 10 are, and what the different checks for 13 are... And then we can move on to map events!

Looks like there are 45 possible values for command 10, stored as pointers at x16632. So on to testing all of those I guess...

And is streaming my progress/technical information actually useful/interesting to anyone?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 6:17pm
by nightshade00123
I myself haven't started to play with SF1 editors, or SF1 in general, but I can assure you that there is always a use for this stuff.

If it wasn't for things that were left behind by BNC and his work on SF2 alot of things might not ever have been found. So for reassurance there is always an audience, even more so than what actually post comments. Like myself I haven't been doing anything SF1 related, or posting comments for that matter, but I always read what's going on over here as well as the SF2 boards.

Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 6:52pm
by rubixcuber
Ah, well glad to hear it. Occasionally I do wonder if I'm just blathering on about this stuff to myself, or if anyone is interested in the minute details.

On that note though, the scripts accessed by the 10 command seem to be a bunch of scripted movements for the hero:

0 - lock 6 frames
1 - lock 9 frames
2 - move down 4
3 - move up 3
4 - move left 1, wait a little
5 - move left 1, up 2
6 - move left 1, down 5, left 4, up 4, right 3, up 1
7 - move left 3, down 4, right 4, up 4, right 1
8 - move down 3 and wait
9 - move right 5, up 5, right 1, left 1, down 6, right 4, down 4, right 1, left 3, down 4, left 3, down 4...
A - move down 1, left 1
B - move down 2
C - move left 1
D - move right 1, wait a little
E - same as 8?
F - same as 4?
10 - move up 1 and wait
11 - move right 1 and wait
12 - lock 11 frames
13 - move left 6, up 1 and wait

I don't think I'm going to bother testing the rest for right this moment, as they aren't really necessary for basic NPC scripting.

Time to throw together a basic script editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 8:34pm
by nightshade00123
I just thought I would add the fact that you work incredibly fast :shock: , almost like it's nothing. LOL

I'm sure after these new installments to the original editor are done we might see some reaaaaaaaalllly in depth hacks, with all this new info and whatnot. Wohhooooo.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29 2012 8:53pm
by rubixcuber
Faster than you think even, since I'm at work and just poking at things every once in a while when I'm waiting on something!

Anyways, just threw up a new version. Added the script editing to the map editor, it's the new subsection on the left with the scroll icon.

Right now it's very basic and can only view, but it's a start.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 12:59am
by Lobo
Tested the palette editor yesterday.
It seems to be doing ok, but I caught an issue with the graphic editor:

There's some kind of problem with colors when exporting/importing graphics. It happens, for example, to paladins' and Hanzou's battle sprite. Gray turns blue for paladins and turns red for Hanzou. It does not appear in the editor though. Only when playing the rom.
I had noticed that before, but thought it was a palette problem. Since the palette editor seems to be working now, I realised it's a graphical problem that happens when exporting/importing, even if you don't change anything.


Oh, and great news about having a script editor! :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 1:11am
by rubixcuber
Hmm, I'll have to look into that. Have you tried opening the rom back up in the editor and seeing if the palette has changed?

The battle graphics and their palettes are part of the same block and move around, so when you save the graphics, the palettes get saved as well, so it could very well still be a palette issue.

Either way I'll look into it once I get settled in.

Edit: Looks like the problem is with the import/export routine from the bmp files, and the way they have duplicate colors in the palette. Going to test a fix in a second.

Edit2: Alright, that problem is fixed! Just have to make sure to use the leftmost color if there is more than one match, not sure why it makes a difference though... Must be doing something special with those colors...

I'll post an updated editor sometime later.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 2:41am
by nightshade00123
Rubix your a madman, your all over this like a shark when it smells/taste blood. Updates are coming faster than anybody can play with, and you know they'll be all over this once they see it. I'm sure Earl will be happy to see this later, as he only seems to come on late at night at least were I live.

Sooner or later I'm going to be done fiddling around with SF2 and this is going to be the next new toy I get. LOL. Nice. Been ages since I fired up Shining Force, can't wait.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 3:19am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, I quite often would have the problem of putting together a decent sized update to the editor, but going on here to post and finding there weren't any replies to my last release yet, and couldn't double post! Not sure if I'll work on it any more tonight or not though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 4:11am
by Lobo
nightshade00123 wrote:Rubix your a madman, your all over this like a shark when it smells/taste blood. Updates are coming faster than anybody can play with, and you know they'll be all over this once they see it.


What amazes me most is that he can answer requests from completely different areas (tools, graphics, scripts, ...) in no-time! :excited:
I am making an effort to catch up with the graphics stuff, but couldn't have an eye on the other areas yet.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 4:51am
by rubixcuber
Well, whatever area it is, it usually comes down to the same stuff really - tracing, ASM and then coding the editor part. Doesn't really matter if it's graphics or scripting or anything!

Also, Lobo, went ahead and put up the fix for that color issue.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 6:15am
by Earl
rubixcuber wrote:On that note though, the scripts accessed by the 10 command seem to be a bunch of scripted movements for the hero:

That seems pretty weird... I mean, why make scripts for a bunch of movements that might only be used once or twice? And if you're going to put them in, why make them only open to the hero?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...
The way most movement works in SF2, you give a byte for direction, then another for distance. And if you want more movement, you can keep adding more 2-byte pairs that'll be handled in the same way. It'll keep doing that until it runs into a command to stop. Sure makes the code easier to look at and change as opposed to consulting a list of prescripted move patterns, at least for a n00b like me.

Something else I'm a little curious about... moving entities around with these commands, do they ignore normal terrain limitations? That is, will they do stuff like walk through walls? I ask because in the other game, it's entirely possible, and if you're not paying attention then when they regain control you might have placed the player in a spot he cannot move out of. Thought I'd mention it because by the time I test and post again, it'll probably be tomorrow.


And as nightshade said. Just getting information out there is fantastic, even if no one's immediately doing anything with it (the docs and disassemblies BNC did that I'm looking at now are a few years old). At the time he was active, *all* of that was over my head.

But less theoretical future-peopley, it's pretty interesting to me. If there's anything I feel comfortable with from 2, it's the event commands so seeing how 1 handles the same sorts of things... it's a strange contrast.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 7:31am
by rubixcuber
Well, I mean, that's exactly what a script is in this case... A group of commands that create a pattern of movement. All you are doing is telling it which script to run on the hero, which is of course implemented as a bunch of the single commands. And aren't all story events going to be only used once? What other option do you have?

SF1 does it slightly differently, with separate turn and move commands, and no repeat like that, but basically the same set up. The 10 commands are just a bunch of those commands grouped together for different events that happen so you can call them with one command, i.e. a script...

All of the movement follows the normal rules. If a wall is in the way, the move won't happen, if a sprite is in the way it will generally wait for the space to clear. Except for probably the one where you just set an X Y position, that most likely lets you put them anywhere.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 3:11pm
by Earl
It just seems like it'd be easier to have it all in one place so it's right in front of you while you work on it, rather than having to jump to some other table and jump back. I mean, why treat Max's movement any differently from an NPC's (aside from having to seize control from the player)? Besides, wouldn't it take less space to just have his movements directly in with the others, if only because you wouldn't have to create a table for them?

Actually now that I think about it... this kind of thing does exist in SF2. There are a few NPCs who walk scripted paths (the dwarf in Granseal walks laps around the pond). For the most part though, wandering NPCs are given an x/y location and a set distance from it they can go. The actscripts* are also like that... but those can be pretty long, and a lot of them are used frequently rather than just the once.


*these are used in the hops and pushes, the dead soldiers who are turned 90 degrees, etc... there are one-time examples, though. I think the Evil Spirit explosion stuff at Creed's is only ever used there...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01 2012 4:46pm
by rubixcuber
Well, but it's not done much different from the other NPCs except that he has his own dedicated set. Since most NPCs just have a single script run on them ever, but he has a large number of them throughout the course of the game, they decided to separate the handling of it for various reasons. Also, most NPCs just have a static script assigned to them by the map, which of course isn't going to work for him. The data may not be located in exactly the same place yes, but that doesn't make it take up any more space. In most cases a 'table' of data in a rom is just a raw collection of bytes, and those bytes take up the same space wherever you decide to put them. At best a table includes pointers to each entry, but that's the same way all of the movement scripts are stored in both places.

Also, it's not as if when developing it they had to work on it the same way we do. They actually had the original source code for the game, in which they could decide to lay out data pretty much however they felt like and then specify where they wanted to store it, so, no, it didn't make it any harder for them to find/reference the data.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02 2012 6:26am
by Earl
rubixcuber wrote:Also, it's not as if when developing it they had to work on it the same way we do.

This is something I know in my head... it's just that in playing with SF2 there are places where it almost seems like they were trying to make it easy. You know, because they saw the whole 'internet' thing coming, and knew people would someday be digging through their game :D

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02 2012 8:06am
by rubixcuber
New editor version is up.

Added something I know a couple people wanted, which is a zoom feature for the map/battle editor.

Also, fixed the issue with map editing, where apparently clicks would edit the map even if you were in a different part of the map editor, leading to random modified tiles...

And the script editor is slightly farther along, though not worth messing with other than for reference yet. Had meant to finish that tonight, but somehow randomly decided to do the zooming instead. Oh well.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02 2012 6:04pm
by Lobo
I hope I can playtest the latest update tonight.

By the way, rubix, as the you've been messing with the map editor, do you know if all the problems with tiles have been fixed through the palette editor?

I recall having problems even if I didn't edit the palette editor.
For example, the Dark Dragon carpet used to be okay in the battle against Darksol but appeared completely wrong in the DD battle. It changed from red to brown after the DD is ressurected. Also the DD wasn't shown properly.

Well, I shall try this out on next playtest.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02 2012 6:55pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, well all of the issues I had seen should be fixed, but I wasn't aware of the Dark Dragon problems.

I'll have to look into it as well when I have time.

Edit: Definitely seems to still be broken. I assume it's always been like that? I had no idea...

Edit2: Wait... Actually my rom may have just already had that issue. Restarting from a fresh copy I haven't been able to reproduce it yet, so maybe it is fixed... You'll have to let me know if you run into it.

I edited that map, some palettes and some graphics and couldn't get it to do it, so I'm hoping that was just part of the palette problems.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 2:26am
by Lobo
I just tested and found the issue with paladins', Hanzou's and other graphics is gone. :thumbsup:

On the other hand, the issue with maps seems to be there yet.
I just copied the original rom and played - it was okay.
Then I exported the graphics, imported back, saved the rom and played it - it had the same old problems.
Found glitches in DD battle and in the 2nd battle of chapter 5, where all that icy floor gets a different color.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 2:28am
by rubixcuber
Oh, you imported the graphics from the BMPs you mean right? I know what that is then, it's more of the same issue with the colors on Hanzou and the paladins. They use some of those duplicate entries to do palette animations and such... I'll have to figure out the best way to make things work.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 2:44am
by Lobo
Yes. From the BMPs.

Oh, and by the way, I noticed there are 33 (0 to 32) sprites for tilesets in the graphics editor but only 24 palettes for tilesets in the palette editor.
Not sure if it's wrong or not, but just wanted to point that out.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 3:22am
by rubixcuber
Well, different tilesets can reuse the same palette, and some tilesets are used in more than one place with different palettes, so there isn't a one to one correlation between them.

But oddly enough, there are 27 tileset palettes, and while I let you access all of them by typing in a number, the plus and minus stopped a couple short, so that will be fixed in the next version.

Also, I think I just came up with a clever way of making sure that even when there are more than one of the same color in a palette, that when exporting to a bmp and bring it backing in it will still match up to the same entry, so I should be able to fix that other issue as well.

And since I know how to fix both of those already, I guess I'm ready for more!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 6:40am
by katgirlfeli
:o Rubix has returned, apparently. Hiyo

The advanced areas do not work properly. While they seemingly work for the first battle, as the game progresses, the areas to not match up with the targeted areas, which lead to hitting incorrect targets, or even no target at all.

And thanks for fixing that map issue with placing tiles when not on the map screen. Hopefully will lead to a lot less Treasure Box images in the future when i need to mod it again o.x

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 6:55am
by rubixcuber
Yes, back again, and hello.

And yeah, sorry about that issue with the maps, surprised nobody else had noticed that, such a silly goof in the coding...

I was aware of some issues with the ranges, but since, well, you seemed to be the only person using it was a little lower priority than other stuff. I will try to look into it sometime soon though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 6:57am
by katgirlfeli
I finished my mod without using it, so its not so important atm, though I may use it again once its fixed.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 11:37am
by Lobo
katgirlfeli wrote:The advanced areas do not work properly. While they seemingly work for the first battle, as the game progresses, the areas to not match up with the targeted areas, which lead to hitting incorrect targets, or even no target at all.


That's true! :eyebrow:
I noticed that happening on Kane's and on Colossus' battle.
I can edit the map areas and save them but when I play the rom or when I load it again on the editor, the areas are all scrambled!
Don't know if that also happens to other battles.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03 2012 7:38pm
by rubixcuber
Er, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing Lobo. We were talking about my advanced range and area coding that let you do different kinds of attacks, like the ring and such.

Are you talking about the AI regions? If so, I was not aware of an issue with them, but I can look into it.

Edit: Ok, got the coloring issue fixed I think, and see the issue with the AI regions and I think I know how to fix that, so I should have a new version up later.

Edit2:

Ok, new version up.

This should fix all three issues brought up by Lobo. (can't access all tileset palettes, DD colors and AI regions)

I haven't had time to test extensively, but it seemed to be working right now, so you'll have to let me know.

Unfortunately, it won't be able to fix the color issues if they've already happened, so the graphics will have to be corrected manually. Let me know if you need help with this, or want me to fix it for you...

Even more importantly... if you've ever saved using the battle editor, your AI regions are screwed up in some battles. And more screwed up for each time you've saved... Same deal, will require manual correction, which I can help with, if you want to preserve any battle changes you've made...

I think the effected battles are 3,5,6,7,18,23 and 26. You'll know if when in the battle editor, set to edit AI regions, you see a tile without an AI region followed by one or more tiles set to AI region 0.

So, yeah... sorry about that, I wish I had more time to test the editor features before releasing them, but this is likely the way it will have to be. But I can generally fix them quickly if I know about them, so please do let me know right away when you find something!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05 2012 2:40pm
by Lobo
Couldn't login for the whole weekend.
I'll try to get it tested tonight.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06 2012 3:20am
by Wetwille
I've noticed the AImregion issue as well. In battle 3, I targeted all 5 of the rune knights with blaze 2 and nothing showed up, but it still took away 5 of Alef's Mp and when the battle screen closed, the rune knights were all reset to max Hp (34 in this case)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06 2012 5:19am
by rubixcuber
Alright, well I hope the latest updates work out for you Lobo (and anyone else who tries them out).

As a note, updates will be a little bit slower for a bit, as I will begin playing Mass Effect 3 in... 41 minutes. Heh...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06 2012 5:31am
by nightshade00123
rubixcuber wrote:As a note, updates will be a little bit slower for a bit, as I will begin playing Mass Effect 3 in... 41 minutes. Heh...


It was nice meeting you Rubix Cuber. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06 2012 5:34am
by rubixcuber
Ha, well, at the very least I'll check in during the day while I'm working.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06 2012 11:06am
by Lobo
rubixcuber wrote:Edit2:

Ok, new version up.

This should fix all three issues brought up by Lobo. (can't access all tileset palettes, DD colors and AI regions)

I haven't had time to test extensively, but it seemed to be working right now, so you'll have to let me know.

Unfortunately, it won't be able to fix the color issues if they've already happened, so the graphics will have to be corrected manually. Let me know if you need help with this, or want me to fix it for you...

Even more importantly... if you've ever saved using the battle editor, your AI regions are screwed up in some battles. And more screwed up for each time you've saved... Same deal, will require manual correction, which I can help with, if you want to preserve any battle changes you've made...


It seems to be better you wrote above!

The AI regions seems to obbey me now. Even if I pick a rom previously edited and change the areas.
I guess it's only a matter of correcting manually battles like Dragonia, Colossus and any other I may notice the scrambling has happened before.

As for the colors, it works fine if I export/import a fresh rom. And for correcting the previously corrupted, I noticed it does correct them if you just import fresh graphics, not needing to edit manually.

So, it's been a great work once again! :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06 2012 4:29pm
by rubixcuber
Well, glad it seems to be working out.

And yeah, you can fix any of it by just saving the data from a fresh rom, but if you want to try to preserve changes that you've made, you'll probably need a bit of manual editing to make things work again.

Since those seem to be wrapped up for the moment, guess it's back to finishing up the script editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06 2012 6:22pm
by Lobo
Well, I haven't tested that yet, but I have a backup of the chages I had made to the graphics.
Most of them are map sprites, but I got some battle sprites too. None of them related to those sprites that had problems.
Do you mean I may still run into trouble once I import them back to the rom?

I'll try that tonight: to copy the bmp's I edited (about 20-30) to the GFX paste and then import it back to a rom.
Hopefuly, if there's no glitch I won't need manual editing.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06 2012 8:11pm
by rubixcuber
Yes, any old exports will most likely not map to the correct palette entries, and cause the coloring issues again. That is what I was referring to.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07 2012 1:24am
by Lobo
Just like you said.
I imported my old bmp's to the rom and the glitches came back. Oddly enough, not all of them. But some did.
Then I imported back the fresh bmp's and edited manually some of them and no glitches were created.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07 2012 4:13am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, that's exactly what I figured would happen. The ones that don't come back are just the case where there were multiple copies of the exact same color, and the editor happened to choose the right one.

You can just mix and match bmps to make it work again though. Export your modified graphics from the broken rom and then make a copy. And then you export the graphics from a clean rom. Then just combine them, using the ones that you altered, but replacing any sprites you didn't alter with the ones from the clean rom. Import that back in and you should be good to go. Although, if you happened to edit one of the sprites that had color issues, like Hanzou, and kept the color that caused the problem, that will take a little extra work.

It could also be fixed with some clever palette swaps, though I'm not sure it's worth trying to explain that...

Doing it that way requires less work, but more thought, so somebody let me know if they have a rom with the color issue and want to do it that way.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07 2012 8:04am
by Lobo
rubixcuber wrote:You can just mix and match bmps to make it work again though. Export your modified graphics from the broken rom and then make a copy. And then you export the graphics from a clean rom. Then just combine them, using the ones that you altered, but replacing any sprites you didn't alter with the ones from the clean rom. Import that back in and you should be good to go.


That's exactly what I did before and, for some reason, it didn't work.
I tested edited map sprites for all paladins' and Luke's, and some new ones for monsters replacing those extra Jogurt's. A total of 30 map sprites (18 paladins' + 3 Luke's + 9 for monsters).
All the rest were from a fresh copy.

And still, when I imported it to the rom, it glitched some graphics. And other didn't.
I noticed the paladin's and Hanzou's battle sprites seem okay, but DD and the ice under Ring Reef were not.

If you want, I'll send you the bmp's so you can figure why that happened.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07 2012 8:22am
by rubixcuber
I guess you can send them if you want.

I'll have to look tomorrow, but I don't see why that should happen, unless the tileset graphics you imported were still from the bad rom.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07 2012 8:35am
by Lobo
Well I didn't make any change to tilesets. Only to map sprites.
But maybe they are somewhat related as they have been placed in the same paste inside paste GFX.

Anyway, I sent you an e-mail.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07 2012 5:53pm
by rubixcuber
I'm aware of that. If you didn't make any changes to anything at all, it still would have caused that issue because of the duplicate palette colors. When you do the graphics import/export it exports all of the graphics.

The email you sent me only has the map sprites. The colors that are messed up for DD and such are in the tilesets, so if you want to fix those, you have to import the bmps of the tilesets from a clean rom. When you do an export, you should get a big folder with more than 1000 bmps. You need to take this entire set from a clean rom, and then copy in the bmps you changed, and then import the whole thing.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08 2012 12:22am
by Lobo
I redid all the steps I described on the e-mail and the graphics now seems okay.
So I think earlier I had done a mistake at some point.
Good enough. :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08 2012 1:09am
by rubixcuber
Ah, glad to hear it. Back to script editing then. And Mass Effect...

Edit: Quiet around here again... Anyways, the NPC script editor is now out, which I think finishes my current to-do list.

Need to decide what to work on next.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10 2012 10:22am
by xenometal
Before saying anything else, as I'm posting in this thread for the first time, I'd like to thank you for creating such an awesome editor. :excited:

I don't know what your to-do list currently looks like, but I've been reading previous pages taking notes of features I'd like use in a hack of my own, that you found were low priority at the time. Since the editor has come a long way, I'm wondering if you would now feel like working on any of those:

- To relocate and expand the shop data.
- To fix enemies ignoring items Use Range.
- To add an effect that permanently increases MP (à la SF2 Bright Honey).
- To add an effect that calls the level-up routine (à la SF2 Brave Apple).
- To add an effect that restores MP (à la SF2 Goddess Tear / Light of Hope).
- To add the capability to items to raise a 2nd Attribute (as I believe there are 2 unused bytes in Item Data that could be used for that purpose, am I right?)

Just throwing ideas out there, as I couldn't tell from your last post if you were actually "asking for it" or not, so don't let me prevent you from enjoying your daily dose of Mass Effect 3. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10 2012 12:15pm
by Earl
I was just looking into how SF2 handles the tactical base, so I was wondering how SF1 does the same thing...

In the map setup, *everyone* is present... so when you enter the base, it has to check flags to remove the people you don't have yet, check another flag to know who's in the active party and scoot them over to the right position on the carpet... and it apparently only checks to see which sprite they should be using (that is, whether they're alive or not) if they're in the active party. I may be remembering this wrong, but I think that SF1 would 'blue flame' someone regardless of which group they were in.


Also...
Some characters - like Max and Blue - update their portrait on promotion. It'd be cool to be able to change who gets to pull what portrait at promotion.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10 2012 7:01pm
by rubixcuber
Ah, yes, I remember those suggestions. I will take all of those into consideration and see what I feel like looking at next.

Edit: Ok, well I've reverse engineered the routines used by the stat increasing items, shouldn't be too hard to write some new code for MP.

Edit2: And in the process of looking into this, I've only just realized that the items which can be used out of battle seem to have hard coded usages, and totally ignore everything set in the editor when out of battle...

Edit3: Ha, I have a Power Potion that turned Max into Arthur and a Defense Potion which sets his X position...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11 2012 8:09pm
by Lobo
Hhehe
I assume we are gonna see some funny updates soon.

By the Way, its becoming harder to access the foruns each day.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11 2012 9:03pm
by rubixcuber
I haven't had any issues in a while. Anyone who's been having trouble brought it up with the admins?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12 2012 4:11am
by Wetwille
It's fine on my iPhone

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12 2012 6:42pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, I've got everything ready to go for a max MP increasing item, except for two issues.

First is how to handle the message. It will need a line of text added which mimics the ones used by the other stat items. Should you be able to specify a message number you want it to use? I could just have it automatically use one of the unused ones, but that could cause issues of its own.

Then there's the new issue of using an item outside of battle. I haven't looked into it too closely, but the out of battle uses seem to be hard coded... I'm thinking the best solution may be to just disallow any use of items unless in battle? What do you guys think?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12 2012 7:44pm
by nightshade00123
I'm amazed that you did these things Rubix. I don't speak for everybody, but trading the item to the character you want to use it on before battle begins to allow them to use it right away doesn't seem so bad. At least the item is there and useable.

I'll say yes, although others may want it to be outside of battle.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12 2012 7:56pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, yeah, I didn't even consider that aspect of it, not being able to easily use it on anyone in that case. Might be time to rewrite a chunk of their code again.

The item itself works nicely though:

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12 2012 8:43pm
by nightshade00123
That's awesome, very nice indeedy! :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2012 12:27am
by Lobo
Way cool! :thumbsup:
Of course it would be better to allow using those itens outside battles, but if it's not possible, then that's no big deal. We'll just do it the way nightshade stated.

Also, would it be possible to create regeneration effect? For HP and MP?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2012 1:06am
by rubixcuber
Well, anything is possible, just with different amounts of work!

I'd have to create new statuses for those, and not having looked into the status system much I'm not sure how big of a deal that would be.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2012 1:43am
by Earl
rubixcuber wrote:I could just have it automatically use one of the unused ones, but that could cause issues of its own.

You could set it to use some specific line, and make a note of which it is in the readme. So if somebody wanted to use that item and mess with the script, they'd be aware that that line was 'reserved'. If there's any unused lines bundled in among the other generic function type messages that people are unlikely to mess with anyway, a conflict would be unlikely even without that warning.

I guess roping off any particular space that way narrows the options for future expansion... but then I don't know how much wiggle room there is (either with the items or the messages) so that might not be that big a deal.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2012 6:46am
by rubixcuber
The more I think about it, the more it seems like it will have to be a choice.

I'll just add a subscreen to the text editor for assigning special messages. Only have one now, but could make some more use of it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14 2012 2:50pm
by Lobo
Just to keep it alive, now that I finished my project of translating the game (see Shining Force BR thread for details http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21006 ), and as rubix has returned and fixed most of the issues I had found so far, I can focus my work on finishing the development of my own mod.

It will be something like Doomblade's mod - a remodelated version of the original game, with some new enemies, new itens, new spells, rebalanced party and enemies stats, harder battles with smarter enemies' AI's, and some modified graphic stuff.

I had been making that for quite a while, but I had some problems related to palette stuff and AI regions on battle maps that I can now fix with the latest updates of the editor. :thumbsup:

As most of the work has already been done, I hope to finish it sometime soon. Probably in April.
Of course I'll eventualy introduce some new features that will be emerging here until then, like those MP boosting itens. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14 2012 3:50pm
by rubixcuber
Glad to hear it, and to see a post in here!

Just most of the issues though? Are there more?

I'll look forward to seeing it, and since there's been a little life here maybe I'll go wrap up that MP item update.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14 2012 4:44pm
by Lobo
More issues? Not that I could remember until now.

But as you asked, I went to search on my old notes, and I found another one.
It's related to the AI editor. I think Action 2 isn't working properly.

First of all, I can't understand how it works.
It seems to make bats to circle round in battle 4, but it works completly different for Mishaela and her Durahan body guards.
And I have no idea what 'Value 1' and 'Value 2' states for. So it's kinda hard to use it anyway.
And as I tried to vary those numbers, I got some strange behaviors.
I can't recall by now. Will need some testing.
But what made me think it was broken is that in Mishaela battle I couldn't make the Action 2 work even when I repeated the the same values that were there by default for Mishaela and the 2 Durahans.

Well, I think maybe it would be worth to try to understand how 'Action 2' works.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14 2012 5:05pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I asked because you said that I fixed 'most' of your issues, implying not all of them!

I don't think there's anything wrong with Action 2 as far as the editor. I'm guessing it's used for some sort of battle / enemy specific AI sequences, but haven't looked into it too much, perhaps something to look into some more, yes.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14 2012 6:03pm
by Lobo
rubixcuber wrote:Well, I asked because you said that I fixed 'most' of your issues, implying not all of them!


Right. And I said 'most' because I'm not sure if it was all of them. :)
But you have fixed all I had in mind anyway. :thumbsup:

Well, once I put my hands on the battle editor to fix the AI regions, I'll try to do some tests on the 'Action 2' matter, so that I can undestand better the issue, if there's really one.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14 2012 8:18pm
by Wetwille
Is there a way to copy/ paste battle sprite frames? Several of the force and enemy sprites are screwed up from a previous version of the editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14 2012 9:03pm
by rubixcuber
Well, if you use the Export and Import, you can edit them in Paint/Photoshop or something and just copy the frames over.

Edit:

Also, new editor version is up.

Updated and threw my crude help file in there, will try to keep that up to date. Maybe someday I'll add screenshots and such, or maybe some nice person will do that for me so I don't have to spend time going through the whole thing and doing that. ;)

You can now type a line number in the text editor in the lower left for easier navigation.
Added a new sub-screen to the text editor for assigning special messages, only one at the moment though.

And added the option in the mechanics editor for extending the stat increasing effect to include Max MP. Check the help file or ask me about how to use it.


Also... thinking about taking on some of the more difficult code edits that have been mentioned, like passing an item from a chest to the first person with space, or expanding the total number of items available, as well as some of the suggestions from the last page.

But some of these (most notably the item expansion) would require extensive code changes and testing and aren't things I would want to commit to unless I know that there are some people who would actually be interested, and maybe a person or two who would be willing to help me test and such.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 1:54am
by Wetwille
I'm sure many people would like the item passing, as it's really annoying to reorganize everyone's items.

On a side note, I'm editing more enemies into battle #2 (from the gate to Guardiana) and 4 of the rune knights won't spawn no matter the AI or the location. Is there a way to fix this?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 3:01am
by rubixcuber
How many enemies do you have? I don't think the game can handle more than 20, but would have to check the exact number. In any case if you go over the limit they won't show up and there's not likely a whole lot that can be done. I mean, I could probably take a crack at expanding it, but I'm guessing it would be a nightmare and require lots of recoding and moving things around in RAM to try to find room.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 3:23am
by Wetwille
Ok, I don't think I went over, as I'm pretty sure it will stop letting you add enemies in the editor. I'll double check in the editor and see if some data was I putted incorrectly for them. (I have them set to spawn 199 like the armed skeletons in the DD battle, so I'll try and reduce that value)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 3:38am
by rubixcuber
199? The armed skeletons are set to 15 normally, they don't spawn 199 times... If that's what you set them to that's probably why they don't show up. Anything over 127 generally ends up negative, so you're probably telling it to spawn -57 of them. I should probably limit what you can put in, why would you want that many of them anyways?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:01am
by Lobo
199??? :eyebrow:
And do you intend to defeat all of them? :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:17am
by Earl
First, 199? If not for the wrapping to negative... and aside from the "holy crap, that's a lot of enemies" reaction... that's also an XP bonanza. There's diminishing returns as you level, but still.

Lobo wrote:It seems to make bats to circle round in battle 4, but it works completly different for Mishaela and her Durahan body guards.

If I'm recalling the way the Durahans move properly... it's not that much of a departure; the bats are circling around some block of territory, and the Durahans are circling around Mishaela. So maybe Action 2 is describing a movement pattern, and something else is setting the focus of where that movement is taking place around?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:22am
by rubixcuber
Glad to see some activity here. Anybody catch my post about the most recent release and what to work on next though?

It's a little bit more important than the 199 enemies discussion I think, as amusing as that is. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:23am
by Wetwille
Lobo- Not exactly, they spawn a little north of guardiana, so you can still enter it to end the battle. They're mainly there to be an endless pool so they there is a constant flow of enemies. There will be one at least one of these in every boss/ location battle, not battles like Shade Abbey where it is kill everything. This mod is supposed to be a challenge, so I figured a constant stream will help that. They will always spawn in an obscure, far off place, so you will have time to prepare for them. However, they will constantly charge you, so this almost eliminates the ability to grind off of stationary enemies (like the two zombies in the cavern of darkness) but you will be able to grind off the endless chargers if you feel like it. In the DD battle, there is a boss tribute and then an endless pair of Deamon Masters (who have infinite Mp), one with Bolt 4, the other with Desoul 3.

Rubix- one of the 5 still spawned, leading me to believe that there isn't a negative wraparound. It was just the other 4 who didn't spawn even with the spawn set at 1.

Earl- the respawner will be the strongest enemy (besides the boss) of that level, which makes them slightly more formidable as they may kill a few of your people and are all more durable against Magic (every enemy has +20 Hp except for Darksol and Dark Dragon who had their Hp almost doubled)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:28am
by rubixcuber
Hmm, well if it doesn't show at all regardless of spawn setting that really sounds like too many enemies in battle. If you can't figure it out, feel free to send me something to look at.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:33am
by Wetwille
Eh, I guess it's fine with 2 respawning, 5 rune knights charging you at once seems a bit harsh... Also, I think it already limits how many you can put in. I was editing the battle from Prompt to Runefaust and it stopped letting me add enemies.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:41am
by rubixcuber
It does limit the number you add, based on an arbitrary limit I set when allocating memory for them, without realizing the limit of how many the game could handle. I know for a fact that the editor lets you put in quite a few more enemies than it will actually use, which is why I brought it up.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:52am
by Wetwille
Ah, ok, I haven't play tested that level yet, so I didn't realize that all those enemies wouldn't show up. Is there a way th delete enemies from battles?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 4:56am
by rubixcuber
Select one and hit the delete key. Should probably add something to click for that too though.

I'll add a delete button and reduce the number of enemies it lets you add tomorrow.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 5:01am
by Wetwille
K, thanks, that pretty much clears up all my issues.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 5:05am
by rubixcuber
Though, anyone who has tested lots of enemies know exactly how it behaves? I'm pretty sure that either you can only have 20 enemies, or that # of force members + # of enemies can be at most 32, but would have to do a quick test to see. Which I'll probably end up doing anyways.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 5:48am
by katgirlfeli
You cannot have more than 32 sprites (Force and Enemy combined) at any time. The map will load the Force members first, then the enemies. Any sprites past 32 will not appear the map.

If, by the end of the current round, an enemy who has room to spawn due to its space on the map being empty will glitch the game when trying to spawn in.

It would simply be safest to limit Enemy numbers to 20, even in earlier levels due to being able to set force members to 12 early on through the editor, combined with players who want to play with "all force members from the start".

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 10:37am
by xenometal
rubixcuber wrote:Updated and threw my crude help file in there, will try to keep that up to date. Maybe someday I'll add screenshots and such, or maybe some nice person will do that for me so I don't have to spend time going through the whole thing and doing that. ;)


You mean something like this?

WARNING: SPOILER!


... or more like actual in-game screenshots of some of the more extensive edits that can be made (such as Advanced Ranges)?

Either way, glad to see the Max MP increasing effect in action. Though I wonder, is it still impossible to change the effect of items outside of battle? If so, then I guess it's useless to request more of such effects at this moment (and here I was going to suggest adding a CRIT increasing effect to the list... anyone would have some Critical Juice? :shifty: ).

rubixcuber wrote:Also... thinking about taking on some of the more difficult code edits that have been mentioned, like passing an item from a chest to the first person with space, or expanding the total number of items available, as well as some of the suggestions from the last page.

But some of these (most notably the item expansion) would require extensive code changes and testing and aren't things I would want to commit to unless I know that there are some people who would actually be interested, and maybe a person or two who would be willing to help me test and such.


Item expansion would be phenomenal for sure, but then I would mainly need it if I wanted to add additional weapons (which I do but... I digress), which in turn would require being able to edit how they appear during combat sequences. That could turn out to be quite a bit of work, I imagine!

As for automatic item passing, I'm sure that would be the sort of things that would go straight into everyone's hack, and could be put to use right away without having to implement other systems first.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2012 3:20pm
by rubixcuber
That is pretty much exactly what I meant! I had intended to do something like that, but didn't want to take too much time away from actually working on the editor. I wasn't expecting anyone to actually do anything though!

Right now the out of battle uses can't be changed yeah, that's on my list of things to look at.

Adding weapons is something that should probably happen at some point, but unfortunately they decided to do something odd and tie which graphics to use for them more to the character than the weapon. At least that was my impression last time I looked at it, been a while.

Edit: And it's a start:

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16 2012 3:27am
by Wetwille
Nice. Does it automatically say "item #" or did you make it say that?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16 2012 3:29am
by rubixcuber
I just named the items by their number to make it easier to debug and make sure things were working right.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16 2012 3:36am
by Wetwille
Ok. Is there a way to set which weapon sprite an item will use?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17 2012 9:54pm
by katgirlfeli
I kinda would like Critical to be a visible stat on the Status Screen somewhere. That and possibly the ability to increase it via Equipment. If you eventually are successful in creating new items, It'll be pretty interesting to have equipment that could modify HP/SP/Crit while equipped, perhaps even multiple stats (though that'll involve rewriting stuff for multiples x.x).

Speaking of items, the "cracked" imagery in game doesn't work, though this is probably known already. I'm pretty sure "cracked" refers to a completely different image and item ID (which we'd probably have to edit in the item data) in Shining Force 1, unlike Shining Force 2 which if I remember right simply has an "overlay" of the crack part of the image. I'm not sure if there's another way where you could represent a "Cracked" item, if not for an image change, but perhaps a mark next to the item (like an X or C or something), or perhaps a change in the color of the cracked item's name (if that's even possible). I simply ask because i have a 100% crack rate on items in my game (to make it so that you can't savestate cheat the item crack rate, as well as to better appreciate special items and use them at the required times), so I end up with many items that could be cracked and sometimes can't remember them all xD

I asked this at some point before you came back in a list of things I wondered about and other issues, but do enemies have crit rates? I mean, they are able to critical of course ;p Is it a global value or on a per monster basis though and can it be added to the editor in some way?

Another thing: I came up with space issues involving Ranges/Effects. I think i'm up to around 90 ranges and 100ish effects. When I surpassed 110ish effects (or ranges, i forget which one), I was overwriting other data (as my Gargoyle was unreadable in the Editor and in Game, as well as some monsters having odd battle sprites that were not fixable without getting a new rom). I wasn't sure if there was any room to fit anything else by moving the data elsewhere, or if I should simply use less ranges/effects and limit myself Dx I had eventually limited it but managed to still cap it at one point during my modding >_<

One thing to ask as well, I myself never got the "Advanced Item Drops" to work properly. Even if they were checked, I never was able to get any items to drop I checked off this way.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18 2012 5:03am
by Wetwille
This is completely unrelated to what was stated before, but the numbers for crit rate and others a percent or the number out of ten? How does it determine when this will happen

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18 2012 5:14am
by Special T
It's been awhile since I've been to the forums here but I'm really glad to see you back rubixcuber!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19 2012 5:55am
by rubixcuber
Good to be back.

The combination of being out of town and not being able to get to the site here over the weekend resulted in nothing getting done over the last couple days, but hope to get back to it over the week.

Katgirlfeli: That's a lot of ranges and effects... Well, for the ranges at least, I gave you an ability to change where it puts the data. There's plenty of room still in a 4MB expanded rom, but also a chance I'll end up using any given space. You can check my rom map thread, I've got a list of all the sections the editor adds, so just use that to find a bigger space to put it. Anywhere after x3A0000 should be safe for a while.

If I remember correctly, enemies don't have an entry for critical at all and always have a value of 0 in the stat table in RAM and just use a base chance. But it probably wouldn't be too hard to add a value for them for critical and load it into the table I guess...

The rest of the stuff I'll start looking into.

Edit: Looked into the out of battle item usage a bit. They did just hard code routines for the antidote, stat boosting items and the chaos breaker. I guess maybe I'll bypass that code and generate my own, with some sort of screen for assigning the special routines.

Edit2: Fixed the problem with the item drops, will be in next update. Surprised it hadn't come up before...

Edit3: Wrote the new routine for using items out of battle, just need to add a way to edit them through the editor. Might have that up sometime later.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20 2012 5:05am
by Special T
That's going to be very useful for the game I'm playing through now, I'm looking forward to seeing it in action!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20 2012 3:16pm
by Lobo
I've been having some problems at home, so haven't been able to work on SF editing lately.
Hopefuly I'll have something to add and time to test the new updates soon enough.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20 2012 3:20pm
by rubixcuber
Sorry to hear that Lobo.

Barring any unexpected problems, I should have a new version up sometime today.

And Wetwille, if I remember correctly a character having a critical stat of 3 has a 3% chance of a critical attack. Though it's been a while since I've looked at it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20 2012 8:43pm
by Wetwille
Ok, thanks. I was always thinking the higher the number the higher the chance, but I didn't know how how much of a difference it would make

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20 2012 9:20pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, new version is up. Dumping the change log here since I don't feel like typing again.

v1.4.6 - 3/20/12
[Battle]
* Added button for deleting enemies.
* Lowered the enemy limit to 20, so that you can't add more enemies than will show up in the battle.

[Items]
* Fixed the extended drop table so that marking items as dropped by enemies works correctly. Saving from the Item editor will fix older versions.
* Added a subeditor for assigning actions to items when used outside of battle.

[Menus]
* Added a menu for switching editor modes and opening the help file.

The out of battle item uses could probably use some more testing, so let me know if there are any issues.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21 2012 7:42am
by xenometal
Attempted to download new version, got v1.4.5 instead. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21 2012 3:15pm
by rubixcuber
Uh, whoops. Sorry, guess I forgot to actually upload the new version.

It should now be 100% more 1.4.6.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21 2012 4:40pm
by xenometal
Image

Image

So I activated the "Add MP Increase Effect", assigned a message to it, overwrote the Power Potion effect to increase Mp and assigned that effect to the unused Kenji item.

Seems to work fine. :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21 2012 5:13pm
by rubixcuber
Glad to hear it. Both that it works and you figured out how to get it working without too much trouble.

Also, just looked into the enemy critical stat, and it looks like it would be remarkably easy to add it, so I'll probably have that up later today.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21 2012 6:47pm
by katgirlfeli
Do you think the MP steal value from the Demon Rod would also be easy to find? I don't think I need the value change for my own mod due to the low cost of a certain someone's abilities in my game that uses the MP Drain ability, but I might be useful for other people in their mods.

Speaking of MP stealing, would it then be possible to engineer an HP steal in the same fashion? Ominous Incantation claimed to "Steal HP" but I don't think they actually healed the stolen value that I remember >_>;

Then, of course, the values for Boost, Attack, and Slow could be useful too.

Glad to be of service, Rubix. Always providing things for you to look into~ :thumbsup: Thanks for all the work you've done for looking into them for me and anyone else who's also interested and just may or may not have thought of it yet xD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21 2012 7:19pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, new version up with the ability to add a critical stat to enemies. Didn't require too much recoding of the the game to get it working.

I'll consider looking into those.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21 2012 7:52pm
by katgirlfeli
Brainstorm! Actually, now that I think about it, The Drain Effect (which is Effect 3 in the Effect List) uses Routine 4 92, but doesn't really reference any of its other values, which is why I would assume "Status" and "Damage" are set to 255.

Defense-Ignoring Elemental Spells use 2 254 as the routine. The routine manages to pull the Element from Status, the Damage from Damage, and the Attack Animation from "Type". I see no reason why the MP Drain couldn't incorporate the same thing, though I suppose it depends on the routine and if it references or could reference those values or not.

This leads into my question/proposition: Instead of simply finding the value for the MP Drain and putting it in the Global Mechanics page, would it be possible to, just as how Spells generally work, reference the "Damage" value from the Effect when its called, so that there can be a varied MP Drain for different items/abilities? (Such as an MP Drain Level 1, 2, 3, 4, etc being stronger at each level?)

I assume this would simply involve some referencing on how the Routine 2 254 pulls its information from the Effect page and to attempt to copy it over, but It seems like it could be possible. This could then lead to creating a new routine (or at least to find which Routine is the call for Ominous Incantation, which i'm not sure which it is off-hand), and applying similar code from the MP Steal routine to Ominous Incantation for an HP Steal of some sort.)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 2012 4:06am
by Wetwille
Quick random question: where is the exp values for casing a spell (like quick) so that it could be changed from 1 to 5, making it a bit more worthwhile to cast?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 2012 5:54pm
by rubixcuber
New version is up.

Just one change, but a fairly nice ease of use update.

You can now copy and paste data from one entry to another. So selecting one character, pressing Ctrl+C, selecting another character and pressing Ctrl+V will copy all of that character's data to the other slot.

Same for spells, items, gfx frames, etc.

Right now battles, maps and shops aren't copyable though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 2012 6:09pm
by katgirlfeli
The number of times this would've saved me time in the past xD Thanks for the update ;p

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 2012 7:21pm
by Special T
katgirlfeli wrote:The number of times this would've saved me time in the past xD Thanks for the update ;p


Agreed, thank you!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 2012 8:56pm
by rubixcuber
Mod to add critical rate to status screen is done:

Image

Will probably get at least one more thing done before uploading another version though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 2012 9:26pm
by nightshade00123
Amazing work as always! Seems there's no limit to the things you can do. :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 2012 9:34pm
by rubixcuber
Indeed. If you know how to code in ASM then the only limitations are those of the Genesis and how much work you're willing to put into it.

On that note, just looking into the issue with enemies and extended spells. As I expected, it's the AI routine that breaks when it tries to cast one of these, specifically the routine that prioritizes targets.

Shouldn't be too hard to fix, and maybe I can make a little AI editor for deciding how to choose targets for each spell.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 2:10am
by Wetwille
That would be interesting. Restating my previous question: how do you change the exp gained from casting a status spell?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 2:12am
by rubixcuber
I don't know, I'm guessing it's just a hardcoded 1. I might look it up at some point.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 2:15am
by Wetwille
Ok. It would be a cool feature in the editor now status spells would be worth the Mp cost

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 3:04am
by katgirlfeli
Well, there are many ways to make it worth it. Lower MP costs, Raise the values it provides (not implemented), and modify the difficulty so that its worth it to want to buff before charging in :o I suppose EXP would be worth it too, but with the lowered MP cost of Heal, along with the number of times you'll actually get to heal per map since its near required, my priests actually kept up with the fighters ;p

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 4:23am
by rubixcuber
Went ahead and threw up a new version with the crit display. Probably going to be playing with the spell casting AI for a bit.

Edit: Alright! I now know pretty much everything about how it prioritizes targets, enough to change how spells are targeted and create new criteria for them. Will work up an editor for it tomorrow, and maybe start adding some new targeting modes.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 9:27am
by xenometal
rubixcuber wrote:Edit: Alright! I now know pretty much everything about how it prioritizes targets, enough to change how spells are targeted and create new criteria for them. Will work up an editor for it tomorrow, and maybe start adding some new targeting modes.


Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 11:52am
by katgirlfeli
Yup, I had the idea long ago, but the idea of having the ability to "Damage Everything in the attack area" rather than in the Targeted Area like Laser Eye would be neat ;p I certainly don't need anything crazy like Laser Eyes area, but just the ability to damage all in the Range and not the attack area xD

Oh yes, and another value that actually would help me: The minimum promotion level. The game chooses to promote at 10. I kinda need this raised in my mod. I'm not sure if this is a generic value for all classic, or if its set on a per class basis (mainly because while other classes are promoted at 10, YGRT can promote at level 1.) or if its both with YGRT being a special exception.

Lastly, I also would like the value that determines what the effective level a "Promoted Character" is. For example, HERO Lv. 1 is treated as a Level 11 character, for EXP gaining and reviving. Since I want my characters to be promoted at 15, It'd be nice for Hero Lv1 is to be treated as Level 16 for all intensive purposes, to help prevent that whole "I just promoted, so I can powerlevel to Promoted 5 and gain crazy stats because my level is treated as 11 and not 16)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 4:33pm
by rubixcuber
x17441 Minimum Promotion Level

x17361 Number of levels to add to promoted level for reviving cost

x24BCB Number of level to add to promoted level when gaining EXP

Not sure if there are any more times when the promoted level is calculated.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 4:43pm
by katgirlfeli
Then, if you know the locations, could you add them to the editor for ease of access so I don't have to get a hex editor to do it, please? :3

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 4:44pm
by rubixcuber
They'll be in the next version yes.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 4:47pm
by katgirlfeli
Neato. Thanks again.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 5:12pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, done. New version with promotion level stuff is up.

Also, looks like for some reason they didn't include poison/detox in the casting AI. Guess I'll have to add it!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 5:34pm
by katgirlfeli
Awesome. I suppose that'll lead to some modifications of my mod in regards to enemy level. I suppose I'll get to work on that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 5:40pm
by rubixcuber
Some information from what I've learned on the casting AI.

How the default AI targets each spell:

Heal: Missing most health as percentage.
Aura: Missing most health as percentage.
Detox: Missing most health as percentage. (... Guess they didn't plan on having enemies use detox.)
Quick: Target is not quickened.
Slow: Target is not slowed.
Boost: Target is not boosted.
Dispel: Target is not dispelled. Then Class, Distance, and current health %
Shield: Target is not shielded. Then Class, Distance, and current health %
Muddle: Target is not muddled. Then Class, Distance, and current health %
Blaze: Combination of target's Class, Distance, and current health %
Freeze: Combination of target's Class, Distance, and current health %
Bolt: Combination of target's Class, Distance, and current health %
Desoul: Combination of target's Class, Distance, and current health %
Egress: Missing most health as percentage. (Must just be the default...)
Dummy: Missing most health as percentage. (Must just be the default...)
Sleep: Combination of target's Class, Distance, and current health % (Not sure why they didn't do a sleep check like the others...)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 5:54pm
by nightshade00123
That right there is probably the MOST useful information for making battles better. All A.I. info is going to help immensely with assisting modders to make mods better. :)

Once again brilliant! :thumbsup:

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 5:59pm
by rubixcuber
Indeed. I'll be adding the ability to change how it prioritizes shortly, and maybe add a few different routines for choosing targets.

At the very least I'll probably throw in a poison/sleep check, since they didn't for whatever reason.

Edit: Ok, new version up. Lets you select the AI type for each spell, which fixes the problem with enemies trying to cast extended spells.

Edit2: Also, since I was already looking into spell AI, started messing around with trying to get them to use the appropriate level of heal instead of always using the highest level. It looks like it shouldn't be too hard, the percent health missing of their target I think always ends up in FFA988 in RAM, so I can base it on that. Assuming unedited spells, I just downgrade the spell level based on that value.

But... I'm not sure the best way to handle things given the ability to edit all of the spells. For one thing, I can't really assume that a lower level of a spell costs less MP, so I guess I'd have to go recheck the costs of the lower level spells before trying to downgrade. Also, I guess I'd have to do a lookup into both the spell and effect data to figure out if what is being cast is a healing spell or not. So, more thinking to do on that, but might be coming soon.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 10:39pm
by puffmuffin
Is it possible to change the portrait pallete for any given character? I tried but had no success.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 10:52pm
by rubixcuber
It isn't at the moment, but now that the palette editor is working properly it shouldn't be hard to add the rest of the palettes.

I might do that sometime tonight or over the weekend.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23 2012 11:21pm
by katgirlfeli
I suppose this comes up as a problem in my mod, as people seem against the idea of 25 Flat Damage for Poison, especially when their characters may not even have 25 HP yet. I was hoping to bring out the necessity of Antidotes (Panaceas in my mod as they're set to cast Detox 2) as a necessity has not been programmed into their minds yet.

1: All Enemies can be Poisoned, including enemies marked as Bosses. There is no Poison Resistance Check on whether an enemy can receive the Poison Status Effect.

2: Since Poison lasts forever, it'd be easy to "Poison and Dash" against bosses o.x

Although I liked the Force having the option to Poison, In any case, these are the two reasons why I'm thinking of taking the "Poison Spell" away from the Force, though surely anyone playing it would have no fun doing it that way, its still a possibility. I may try replacing it with something someday... Maybe for that variably damaging "HP Drain" I was brainstorming prior lol.

And I suppose speaking of bosses, bosses are determined based on map rather than enemy ID, so maybe a mark for what determines "Who is/are the bosses of this map?". There must be some sort of flag for it (and an "on death" text line shout as well as some bosses tend to have before dying), unless these things are checked elsewhere, not necessarily on the Enemy itself but in the Battle Info instead. I would think it'd be easier to mark the Enemy, but i'm sure we're aware of all the great programming options they chose back then for some of these things x.x

Since my mind just runs on from one thing to the next, if items can ever be expanded (and even if they can't), expanding the Item Shop listings would be nice as well. I do remember a mod i saw that allowed every item in the game be sold in every shop o.o; Not sure how this was done but I suppose it shows that its possible to put that many in x.x

In any case, good job on the Extended Spells and Spell AI info. I had to move all "Force Only" spells down to the Extended list before, copying everything by hand. Now that the "copy" function works, that would've made it easier, and now that Extended Spells work for Enemies, makes it not needed for Spells! Oh well. At least this allows me to Expand the enemy Spell Lineup in my mod and give some enemies skills I hadn't before.

**An Important though probably very difficult issue to handle** While you do give us the ability to create chests within the game, the game itself cannot handle saving what is considered a "closed" or "open" chest when you add chests this way. Opening some chests I had created would flag other real chests in the game as "already opened" since they shared flags (not that I could choose that they did). I'm not sure how the game handles these flags, and how many of these flags the "Genesis SRAM" can handle, but to not only attach chests to flags, but manage to get the game to save the information as well seems like it would be difficult to do. Its kept me from hiding additional chests in the game. It sucks when the game placed 80% of the game's Treasure Chests in Chapter 1 and 2 alone with such useless items and the rest spread out hidden in Battles and Town maps. This is definitely a low priority for me at least, though if you ever get the extended item list available, then we'd definitely need places to hide items xD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24 2012 12:39am
by rubixcuber
Just a quick response for now at least.

Most of those things are on the to do list, and I added a couple of the others.

As far as bosses, if I remember correctly there's a flag that determines if a map has a boss or not, and then if there is, it's just the first enemy. Nothing stored with the enemy.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24 2012 12:41am
by katgirlfeli
Some maps have multiple bosses though, or at least the Dark Dragon boss, you must kill all three, its not simply just the middle (well, I always killed the middle last anyway o.o). I'm not sure on Colossus battle if it was required kill all three Colossi or not o.x; Maybe its handled differently, I guess.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24 2012 1:06am
by rubixcuber
You can win the Colossus battle just by killing the middle one. Dark Dragon battle I don't remember if it was handled specially or not. I'm fairly sure the multi spawn enemies don't count towards ending the battle and otherwise it is a normal kill everything battle, but would have to check.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24 2012 1:14am
by katgirlfeli
Then I suppose I lucked out putting the Middle One up top, though I think I'll need to reposition the Colossus in my Mod then if you don't need to fight all three as you'd only end up fighting 2 of them if you chose the most direct path to the top... or probably easier to turn off the "Has a Boss" for that battle >_<

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24 2012 2:31pm
by Wetwille
You could eliminate one of the paths and force people to fight every Colossus, or make the sides identical

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24 2012 11:33pm
by xenometal
I'm done putting together pictures for all of the editors, which you can find below. Tell me if you need them resized or something.

SF1Editor Pictures

Now I realize that some pics will soon get outdated, because you update so fast. I'm not complaining though. :)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25 2012 1:52am
by rubixcuber
Oh, well, thanks! I will certainly try to make good use of them!

Actually I was planning on keeping them updated myself, since as long as I keep up with it, it's not a big deal to add things as I go. Just was a bit more work getting things started. Though on that note, I don't suppose you did that in something like photoshop and have a layered version still do you? If not, no big deal.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25 2012 2:30am
by xenometal
Yeah I've still got layered versions, though I made them in paint shop pro 7 and I don't know if photoshop is able to open, or at least import .psp files to whatever photoshop's file format is. Anyway, here they are, and hopefully you will get them working somehow.

SF1Editor Pictures (layered)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25 2012 4:17am
by rubixcuber
Much obliged. I'm sure I can manage with whatever format.

Edit: Didn't do too much over the weekend but looked into the way the boss/end of battle stuff works. I do know where and how that is set up now, but unfortunately instead of just having a boss flag like I expected, each battle just has its own pointer to a block of code to run, with a hard coded enemy ID for the boss if there is one.

Edit2: New version up, but read this before updating if you used the monster crit mod.

I made a small goof with the mod that adds the critical stat to enemies, forgetting that multibyte data can't be accessed from an odd offset, causing every other enemy's stats to get loaded improperly.

If you used the new stat already, you'll want to disable it using the old editor before updating to the new version, and then you can enable it again.

Otherwise if you try to load the rom with the new version, the monster stats will be screwed up.

You can change 4EB9001BF3164241 to 42414EB900020140 at x21E52 to get it to load properly otherwise, but disabling in the old editor will be easier.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 11:53am
by Wetwille
Katgirlfeli: Don't enemies like the Evil Puppet, Mannequin, Gargoyle, and Belial have an Hp drain? Couldnt you find the effect for that like you got the Drain effect (I know it was on the Deamon Rod, but you managed to give Dark Elves poison, didn't you?)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 1:03pm
by katgirlfeli
Eh? I don't remember any such HP Drain. "Ominous Incantation" would be the closest, because it said it "stole HP", but I do not believe it healed for the HP it claimed to steal.

The Demon Rod's use was an MP Drain, not HP.

Besides, this is my proposition for Rubix to see if two things can be done: One is to modify the MP Steal Routine to allow the "Damage" variable to be called for in the routine so that we may create MP Draining abilities of various values. The second is, if Rubix can do that, to create a new Routine, which applies the "MP Drain" routine and turns it into an "HP Drain" routine.

This would lead into a better MP Drain function, but then allow an HP Drain.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 7:17pm
by rubixcuber
New version is up.

You can now add and remove items from shops.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 7:46pm
by katgirlfeli
For Manarina, it itself doesn't have a shop, but is there space in the Rom itself for Shop information, meaning I can add items to it and it wont break anything? Are Shops actually related to the NPC (as in the NPC calls the shop), or are shops actually bound by towns themselves?

I wonder if I can create a secret shop in the game and hide it in a random NPC, using one of Manarina's shop information. I haven't really looked into how NPC call the shops up (or if its a script).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 7:59pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I left plenty of room when I relocated the data, but there's no current way to add a shop. Mostly because I don't have any idea how it ties the shop to the conversation, and if it is tied to the npc or the map. I'm guessing map, but who knows...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 8:03pm
by katgirlfeli
Ah, well I suppose its not so important. I don't really have anything special I could put into it either way, other than rare rings and other oddities, which i'm happy with the limited numbers of specialty rings (and there are enough "ring" slot equipment in the game that all of the active Force could have something in my mod, so no one's feeling naked) o.x

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 8:04pm
by rubixcuber
And although I'll end up using most of the space for other things, right now you can add... about 261381 items before you'd break anything.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 8:07pm
by katgirlfeli
lol alright. 2 rows of items in a shop is 12 items I think. I'm sure that'd be more than enough for any shop, even if you're later able to increase the number if items in the game from the current 63, until someone tries to do something ridiculous with it the stores that is. I guess 63 could be a maximum too (if someone really wanted to put every item in every store o.x)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27 2012 8:20pm
by rubixcuber
At the moment I've limited items to 32 per shop, and only left space for 46 shop headers. So those will probably be the limits. That's enough to add 22 more shops and about 28 more items per shop.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28 2012 3:21am
by Wetwille
Nice.

Sorry, I thought that ominous incantation restored Hp. I know it says the Hp was stolen, I just didn't know if the enemy regained it.

Also, is there a character limit on items? The ones that I've changed are frustrating to fit in the current caracter count. (the orb of darkness is just called the shade)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28 2012 3:49am
by rubixcuber
For now item names are very limited yes. There is no room to make the names any longer than they already are.

If/when I release the 128 item mod, or decide to just do a partial mod that only relocates the data, that limitation will be removed.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28 2012 10:03am
by katgirlfeli
Oh yeah, one thing about the MP Steal code. You could steal MP from groups, but you'd only gain MP for the last person who you stole from. Say you wanted to absorb from a group, and out of 5 targets, each lost 3 MP each, you'd only get 3 MP instead of 15.

Along with the previous things I've asked in regards to the MP stealing routine, is it also possible to move where it decides when to add the stolen MP to your count (meaning after each attack rather than after all the attacks) or if it could just add the total together (which would probably involve creating a variable to hold the "total", which just moving the code of where it adds the MP to when the MP Steal takes place would probably work better o.x)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28 2012 6:34pm
by Lobo
As things are starting to quiet down to normal, I managed to read the posts from the past week.

Very nice updates so far, with enemies spells AI and shops! :thumbsup:
I'll catch up with these updates when I can.
Right now I'm still to test the MP increasing effect.


As for multiple bosses, the battle at the fort of Uranbatol has some interesting boss flag, that determines which door will be opened depending on which of the two bosses is killed last.
Maybe looking into that will help figuring it out.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28 2012 9:09pm
by Wetwille
I remember that. My second playthrough, I killed the other boss and was like WTF? Didn't the other door open the other time? The Dark Dragon could just be a kill all enemies, just with a special flag on the center head to trigger Max's special attack.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28 2012 9:25pm
by xenometal
rubixcuber wrote:You can now add and remove items from shops.


Nice, I was looking forward to that.

About enemy critical rates, you said that by default they all share the same value. Would you happen to know what that value is?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28 2012 10:16pm
by rubixcuber
Well, the default value is 0. But if you look in the class editor, anything with a special of 0 gets a 25% critical chance, and there may be a couple other values. And those enemies will probably ignore the critical stat, unless you remove their special value.

Edit: Also I'm nearly done with the 128 item mod. The only issue I know of that is left is the deals section. The way they stored which items are in the deals shop is a little difficult to expand, so I'll have to decide on the best approach to that.

Edit2: Alright, pretty much done now. And since I had to try to find every piece of code that referenced the item number to do it, I finally went and tracked down how it ties the item to the weapon sprite and also found another table with some sort of item category value, so I'll probably add both of those to the editor shortly as well.

New Version Up

Well, this is a fairly large one.

Added the weapon sprites for the items as well as the new category value, though I'm not sure what that does other than change what type of message you get when it cracks/breaks.

Then of course there's the 128 item expansion.

There are a lot of code changes involved there, so backing up is probably a good idea before testing it out.

And chances are there's some screen or something I missed updating to handle the expanded items, so keep an eye out for that...

The item expansion makes use of the bit that normally determined if an item is broken, so items that break will just skip straight to being destroyed.

Let me know if you find any bugs/places where it doesn't honor the extended items.

Also, you can add the extended items to shops, and have a character start with one, but you can't put them in chests or give them to enemies yet, I'll finish that tomorrow as I need to get to sleep tonight.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 7:17am
by Lobo
Wow! Great news! :excited:


Added the weapon sprites for the items as well as the new category value, though I'm not sure what that does other than change what type of message you get when it cracks/breaks.


Could this 'category value' be related with which weapons go with which battle sprites animation?

I mean, if you have Max equiping an axe, for example, the weapon won't show up and there will be no animation on the battle scene. Just the message of the damage being dealt.
If unpromoted Lyle equips a Buster Shot, he will get no battle animation either.

Would that be tied with this category value?
And more generic (and more relevant), would the information that ties weapons to certain battle sprites be editable?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 7:19am
by rubixcuber
Hmm? That's the other value that I added...

As far as why it doesn't show up on other characters that don't normally use it, I have no idea. Maybe there's special code for positioning it relative to each character. I'll have to look into that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 11:00am
by katgirlfeli
Hmm. I suppose there isn't any way to have some sort of boolean for cracked/not cracked without having to deal with adding new variables as well as dealing with anything that handles "cracked", such as battle cracking, repairing, etc? While excited for the extended items, losing "cracked" status is a little detrimental to my mod due to how I set up item usage. My 100% crack rate allowed certain good items to be usable once per battle (though twice, which could mean they lose the item). I didn't want it less than 100% due to save-state resetting for a "non-break". Now they just break without a crack warning (which is understandable).

Oh well. I may have to alter all of my "usable equips" to be either weaker than they are now and unbreakable, or end up making it worth losing the item for in an emergency, which I may go for the latter, of course, depending on the item. I could also make entirely new items for those uses. Such items that could break could also now be re-purchased through stores (due to the recent Item Shop changes).

I'll figure something out :D Great job as always. Being able to have twice as many items should make up for the work-around i'll have to do for this mechanic.

Edit: Also, whether you use Extended Items or not, is there enough room for Item Names now? I dunno if there was enough room before or not (I know monster names had this problem, dunno about item names), but if so, I can change the names if the stat up items back to what they were originally without having to worry about the name lengths xD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 3:19pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I of course already had to modify those routines to handle the fact that that bit is no longer the broken flag. (Though I didn't do the repair change last night, more on that in a second). Actually changing the code for that stuff is no big deal, the bigger problem is where to put it, and making sure it saves.

Every time I think I've found some free ram to make use of, I find some routine that makes use of it. I don't know of any way to make absolutely sure that an address is unused other than to carefully scrutinize the code and try using it and play through the whole game...

I don't know if there's 'enough' room, but I did give a fair bit more room for the names now, so let me know if anyone still hits the limit. I should really probably have it calculate the limit and force you not to go over...

And on the topic of repair... Right now I haven't messed with the repair code, and all extended items will be seen as broken and you can repair them into a different item. I could just disable the repair, but then that would be a totally unused feature. You may also notice that I disabled 'Sell to Deals' for the extended items, because I decided it wasn't worth trying to make that work with them. So I was thinking instead of getting rid of repair, changing it to 'Tinker' where it does transform an extended item into the corresponding normal item, but only if that deals flag is set, repurposing it for those items.

Or... I could move the broken data to the deals flag, and then only non-extended items could be sold to deals and only extended items could break. I guess an option would be best, though that's a bit of work...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 5:39pm
by katgirlfeli
The Tinker Option could be quite interesting. It could allow you to pay large sums of money (which finding new uses for Gold is always nice) for a "Cursed" Piece of Equipment and turn it into an otherwise "Not-Cursed" version of it. You could also (with my mod in consideration), turn what would be considered "Old" or "Ancient" items that would break on use into a version that can be used without fear of breakage. Then there is of course changing one item into something completely different (such as having multiple "Mythril" IDs in extended and having Tinker "repair" them into some sort of weapon associated with that particular Mythril's ID in the standard list.)

I kinda like this idea, despite sounding a little complicated to start with. It leaves several different possibilities which I laid out a few that I could think of above. Maybe some other than me could read this too and perhaps voice what they think on it.

Edit: Could you also leave the breaking as it always has been in Shining Force? If Tinker can turn an Extended item into its "Unbroken" Standard Item, then of course the way its always been should be able to work to. That is turning a "Standard" item, when used and then "cracked", turned into its "Extended" Version. That would mean I could have a "Holy Staff" in Standard, use it in battle and it cracks, turning it into the "Cracked Holy Staff" in Extended. It would also mean I could "Tinker" with it and change it back into a "Holy Staff", as if the Repair Mechanic was never gone. Even better, since its a completely different item ID, I could give "Cracked" versions of items weaker stats too, as well as actually show a "Cracked" Item Icon (drawing the cracked part in the icon myself of course). This would also allow people who want to keep "breaking" a part of their game be able to use it in such a way. (Unless there's an unforeseen issue with this, just let me know xD)

As of right now (which is what you set it as most likely), using a "Standard" item that triggers cracking simply destroys it immediately (as if it were already cracked), where it might still work to leave it as its always been, so long as you're creative on what you mark "Can Break" in the items.

The only loose end that I see here is that anything under "Extended" would be considered "Tinkerable/Repairable" which is not always what you'd want in your mod. I'm not sure how i'm going to handle placing an item that not meant to be "Tinkered", such as my "Wine of Mana", and having someone "Tinker" with it and changing it into some other item, other than moving it into the standard item list >_<).

Edit: More Brainstorming! Since "Extended Items" also have a "Cracked" check box for it. Is there anyway to tie that into the whole "Repair/Tinker" thing? Like, If this item is an "Extended Item" and is marked as "Can Break", it can be "Repaired/Tinkered", and the other side where If this item is an "Extended Item" and is NOT marked as "Can Break", then it cannot be "Repaired/Tinkered". Can it be tied into that, if its not already? As state below, better used with the "Sell to Deals" flag as its not being used for anything.

Lastly, I suppose if you're going to have a use for all this Tinkering and Repairing, then something that determines the rate of repairs would need to go in the Mechanics page. (Currently, it is at 25% of the cost of the item). Selling items also sells at, I believe, a 75% rate (just in case these two values are near each other, or perhaps they're just in the Repair and Sell routines). Also, as how its always been, the cost to repair is based on the "Standard" version of the item (as there was no "extended" version to refer to). Perhaps a change it so that the "Repair/Tinker" costs are based on the price of the "Extended Item" and not the "Standard Item", so that, for example, all the "Mythrils" will cost the same to repair based on the "Mythril" price, but the items they turn into may or may not be worth as much as it took to "Repair/Tinker" them.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 7:01pm
by xenometal
katgirlfeli wrote:Could you also leave the breaking as it always has been in Shining Force? If Tinker can turn an Extended item into its "Unbroken" Standard Item, then of course the way its always been should be able to work to. That is turning a "Standard" item, when used and then "cracked", turned into its "Extended" Version. That would mean I could have a "Holy Staff" in Standard, use it in battle and it cracks, turning it into the "Cracked Holy Staff" in Extended. It would also mean I could "Tinker" with it and change it back into a "Holy Staff", as if the Repair Mechanic was never gone.


That is a well thought notion and one that I totally support. I think it's worth sacrificing some of these newly acquired extended slots in order to preserve the repair mechanic. And while it may seem like a bit of a waste, I think it is still better management of existing resources, compared to the possibility of holding a "cracked" Medical Herb as it is in the vanilla game!

katgirlfeli wrote:The only loose end that I see here is that anything under "Extended" would be considered "Tinkerable/Repairable" which is not always what you'd want in your mod. [...] Since "Extended Items" also have a "Cracked" check box for it. Is there anyway to tie that into the whole "Repair/Tinker" thing?


I would think the extended/cracked version of items would need to have the "Chance to Crack" flag set in order to actually break when used. However, since rubix has no intention of allowing extended items to be sold to deals (which is something I can totally deal with, by the way), then maybe the "Sell to Deals" flag could fill that purpose instead?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 7:15pm
by katgirlfeli
That's true, though I suppose this would only benefit you if you plan on having an item that can has a "chance to break" while not being "Tinkerable/Repairable". Otherwise, using the "Chance to Crack" box would be fine (scratch that as, as you say, it is required for those "Cracked" items to actually break that you do intend to break xD)

But, as you said, if Rubix isn't going to bother with "allowing Extended to be sold to Deals", then the "Sold to Deals" box will be useless for those items and could be used for that purpose so that the above could be possible.

Then this goes without saying: Don't sell your Mithril for early money ;p You wont be able to buy them back later!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 7:49pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, yes. I think I see what I want to do then. I think I'll go back to the original breaking mechanics, under the assumption that the broken version of an item will be placed in the corresponding spot for any item that breaks. And then I'll just use the deals flag as a broken flag instead, so that it knows which extended items actually need to be repaired. This will also allow for 'tinkering' or whatever, by letting you flag an item as broken but not have the item it turns into be breakable.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 8:21pm
by xenometal
rubixcuber wrote:This will also allow for 'tinkering' or whatever, by letting you flag an item as broken but not have the item it turns into be breakable.


This could be considered as an "emergent mechanic", now couldn't it? Very nice!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 8:34pm
by katgirlfeli
Basically, what that means is, is that i could have a "Mithril" item (or whatever item you want 'tinkered'), tinker it and turn it into a Weapon in the "Standard" list of items, but make that Weapon not be able to be cracked (so that it doesn't turn back into Mithril) xD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29 2012 10:46pm
by rubixcuber
I suppose it could! And the work is basically done now, just need to get it built into the editor, which I will do later this evening.

And here's the code for the new repair check, for no good reason.

48E7F0004EB90002026C0802000E660A4CDF000F4EF900016AFA4CDF000F322EFFF40830000610004EF900016AF2

Bonus points if you have any idea what that means!

Edit: Ok, didn't have too much time to test, but looks like it should be working. New version is up with the repair changes and the 'Broken' flag for the extended items.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30 2012 5:11pm
by xenometal
rubixcuber wrote:And here's the code for the new repair check, for no good reason.

48E7F0004EB90002026C0802000E660A4CDF000F4EF900016AFA4CDF000F322EFFF40830000610004EF900016AF2

Bonus points if you have any idea what that means!


^

"rubixcuber is boss"

?

EDIT: Uh, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but...

Image

Something seems to have screwed with weapon palettes. Note that in this example the Heat Axe hasn't cracked yet.

EDIT2: Okay, so it appears that because the item had already been determined to crack, it was changed to the cracked version before Gort actually used it (I had set the "Chance to Break" to 100). Afterwards, Luke attacked normally and the palette looked fine.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30 2012 8:20pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah I see the problem. The palettes themselves are fine, but apparently the items choose the palette for their weapon sprite independently instead of it being tied directly to the sprite itself as I had assumed. Should be a fairly easy fix, and I will get on it.

Edit: Ok, new version with a couple of extended item fixes is up. Should take care of the palette issue, though at least for now, extended items share a palette with their non-extended counterpart.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01 2012 12:56am
by Wetwille
Ok, I'm having issues with the map editor. I added a hedge maze to Guardiana castle just for fun and moved the warp locations down to about 3 tiles before the edge of the map. However, every time I walk onto the warp in the Guardiana town, it warps you outside. Is there any way around this?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01 2012 1:27am
by rubixcuber
Not currently, other than pulling things in a bit more. Generally the point where you exit the map is set several squares in from the edge so you can't see past the end of the map. I can look into how that works at some point though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01 2012 2:38am
by Wetwille
K, I'll try moving the warp up a few tiles

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01 2012 2:43am
by katgirlfeli
Are you using the right warps? Event 4 warps you outside. Otherwise you'd use 12/16 to warp to specific areas.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01 2012 2:50am
by Wetwille
It's using event 12. I just adjusted the teleport coordinates.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 4:39am
by katgirlfeli
I'm having a very critical issue with my mod in association with your recent releases (not in regards to any new functionality at the moment, well, possibly the "Script Editor").

In the recent versions of the mod since you've come back rubix, changing an item in a chest on a map using the map editor is causing errors in the game code itself (there have been reports of scripts in Alterone not working properly, such as getting stuck in the middle island with the Power Water chest, Kane being missing in Alterone, as well as the Knight not walking away and getting in the way of Khris).

Backtracking on my recent update, my editing of the chest in Pao Village (After), the 2nd chest in the front of the train is causing this problem when doing so in the recent versions of the editor. I tried another random chest (the one inside Rindo with the Speed Ring) and it still causes the problem. There are no issues when you save the Map Data in the editor WITHOUT changing any chests. The issue only appears after editing a chest and then saving the map.

This issue appears in editor versions at least in 1.4.11. The version, which was released before your year of absence (November 23, 2010, which your changelog lists as v1.3.4) can edit the chests in town properly without causing this issue. I don't have releases v1.3.5 to v1.4.0 on hand to figure out which one the problem began in for you.

Since this issue is causing a big problem with the game scripts, I'm bringing this to everyone's attention so you can take a look as to what happened between those releases that's causing an issue with the map saving the items in chests in relation to the script bugs, and they can avoid changing chests and having this issue possibly appear in their own mods.

Edit: To be sure, I tested this in a clean rom and it is happening in it as well.

Edit 2: With further testing, It causes a problem when you make graphic changes to the map itself (changing map graphics), meaning its not limited to the items in chests, but perhaps even to the map editor as a whole and how it saves the map data when its edited.

Since it is an issue with NPC Scripts, I suggest Editor v1.4.4, where the "NPC Script Editor" became "Fully Functional". I can only assume its not saving the scripts the same way they were loaded into it, but since "NPC Scripts" are listed under "Map Data", editing any part of "Map Data" would cause it to save the "NPC Script" data as well.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2wmsrwmubhwxlgo
Here's the link to a Kega Fusion Save State to where the girl is about to push you into the water (just talk to her), just so you can test it yourselves. Continue with the events of Alterone (Talk to the guy in the Item Shop/Bar, head to the castle, talk to the king, etc) and see if those events still work for you.

I'm not sure if this is causing any related issues with Wetwille's hack (as he recently had an issue with Map Editing as well)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 4:38pm
by rubixcuber
The script editor is definitely breaking some of the scripts apparently, looking into that now.

I don't know what you're referring to with Wetwille's hack, but if you are talking about the thing a couple posts above that wasn't really an issue, unless I'm misunderstanding something. That's just the way the game works...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 4:43pm
by katgirlfeli
I don't know if it did or didn't have any effect. I only brought it up because Wetwille was using the Map Editor as well. If its just normally funky that way with warps then it will be unrelated. I haven't tried it myself.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 4:48pm
by rubixcuber
Well, if you are in an interior map and step onto the last 5 tiles of the map it sends you outside. That's just how they implemented it. Not really related to warps.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 4:52pm
by katgirlfeli
I've had no issues walking up to the edge of any maps that I know of. Only whenever walking over "Event 4" tiles have I ever been sent outside onto a World Map. Which areas does it actually do this without any sort of event?

When I tried hiding items in an earlier build, I hid them in places that put you onto the edges of the maps without any issue with randomly warping outside. I'd need an example of a map that actually does this as I've never had any issues (i'd hid things in the outer edges of Pao Village, Inside Bustoke and Alterone, The top section of Rudo, the bottom left corner of St. Abbey, and several others.)

These aren't in any current builds of my mod now, at least not until there are more "Treasure Chest" flags xD So anyone playing my mod, don't bother looking for anything hidden away at the moment.

Maybe I don't know what you refer to as "Last 5 tiles", if you actually mean in a 5-tile perimeter from the map's edges, or some specific tiles on any map that always reacts this way.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 5:13pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, well maybe I'm just sleep deprived, but I thought that's how it worked in general, been a while since I really looked at that closely. I guess I'll take a closer look at what's going on with that then.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 5:44pm
by katgirlfeli
I suppose I'll try it myself and see what happens. A forest path from Guardiana to the Castle Map...

Edit: Tested using editors v1.3.4 and v1.5.2. No issues found placing a warp near the top edge of Guardiana's town to the southern edge of Guardiana Castle's map, and walking in between those two ports with either version of the editor. No random warps leading outside.

The portals were placed in Map 0, 22, 46 and Map 2, 41, 2 and they functioned properly.


Also, since there's only 1 Castle Map, after Guardiana's unfortunate invasion by Runefaust, your secret Castle Forest path will still take you to Guardiana before it was destroyed if you choose to use it at that point in the game >_<

I suppose I'd have to ask Wetwille himself what he did to get those results.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 6:19pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, fixed the issue with the npc scripting. Turns out there were sub scripts that I wasn't aware of.

New editor shouldn't break those anymore. If you've saved with an older version and have this problem, the best way to fix it is to take a copy of an original rom or a backup and copy everything from x80EFE - x811AD to the bad rom. Or as usual, I can fix it for you. The area to copy should be between a 4E75 and an 0F0C.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 6:25pm
by katgirlfeli
Thanks as always Rubix. I'm fine myself since I used v1.3.4 for modding up to v1.01 of my mod. I hadn't used a newer version until v1.5.2 when I added a few new features, so there weren't many things to backtrack on.

Hopefully not too many are affected though.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 8:27pm
by Lobo
I can't keep up in par with you guys! Katgirlfeli is almost as fast and furious as rubix! :)

Been reading this but haven't been able to do much testing.
In fact, lately, I have split my (little) spare time between playtesting my own mod and playing 'Grand Prix Story' on my cellphone.

The good news is that everything seems to be working fine in my mod so far, as I'm about to finish the first battle of chapter 7 and enter the Tower of Ancients.
After finishing this playtest, I can finaly launch the mod. Right now I'm still considering implementing some of the latest updates, but maybe I'll keep them to an updated version of the mod.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 9:13pm
by rubixcuber
Mostly been fixing things though lately. Need to decide what new stuff to work on.

Probably either do some more stuff with Land Effect/Terrain or story/event stuff next.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 9:44pm
by katgirlfeli
My future interests lie in:

Assigning a Shop to an NPC.
Other Battle Mechanics (Fixing the Advanced Areas, the MP Drain/HP Drain suggestions I previously made, etc)
More Flags for Treasure Chests (Somehow getting it to save properly in RAM so I can hide some items in random spots).
Changing the game text to a more direct translation of the Japanese version.

Land Effect would be interesting. I don't believe all terrain is the same on all maps (like Terrain 4 in one map may be different in another, at least that's what I think when comparing some stages, like the Dark Sol Battle with other outdoors battles). It would seem that Battle Terrain are tied to battles (if you're outside battle, it'll follow that map's non-battle terrain, which is the "Is it walkable/unwalkable" thing). This kinda messes up my mod a little in the Fortress Battle where I can walk through it during battle, but when the battle is over, the terrain reverts to its not-battle terrain (which is not something that can be edited atm in that particular area, not that I could see).

I made the stage longer, putting a tree to block the path, making the force climb the fortress and go around clockwise to the bottom right door. I placed a staircase there which lets them walk down from the bottom right doorway. When the battle is over, they cannot use that staircase anymore but can walk through the tree o.x Just explaining it to get a better picture of what I meant above.

In any case, hopefully that helps some, even if you might know these things about Land Effect anyway o.x

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 9:53pm
by rubixcuber
Each battle does have its own set. There's a table of different terrains, and each battle can choose 16 of them to work with. I pretty much know how all of it works, just need to get it into the editor.

The shop and chest stuff will fall under the story/event category. The other things are still on the list, but lower priority at the moment, want to focus more on editing what is already there than adding new features to the game for now.

As far as changing text to a more direct translation, I think I've provided about all the help I can for that. Unless you mean needing to add more lines to dialog, which is more of what I intend to address as far as story/event things.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 10:00pm
by katgirlfeli
Oh, one thing that happened as well, the Editor gives an error and crashes when a Battle Editor loads a battle with 0 Enemies on it (I did it once to skip battle 3 to Alterone so i could get to the Alterone Events for the previous NPC Script issue.) It gets mad when it cannot find monsters to load o.x

It probably wont come up ever, but if someone set a map with 0 enemies and saved it, they wont be able to add enemies back to it since it will error out.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 10:04pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, I can't seem to get that to happen, will look into it though.

I have a set of save states for every battle/town/chapter that someone put together though if you want that.

Here: Save States

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 10:05pm
by katgirlfeli
I have savestates before every battle. Just not one "after every battle". I'll take it anyway, as it probably helps for testing (as far as scripts are concerned anyway).

Edit: Thank you.

Edit 2: I can't recreate it either. It only happened once, though not sure why it wont show up now. I'm not sure which version of the editor it was in either as it happened while I was playing with a few roms and a few versions of the editor when loading that rom x.x It definitely complained about a Null value with the regular "Retry, Abort, Ignore" and then it crashed though. I suppose if its not coming up now, its not so important since I can't confirm the exact situation it happened in (other than one editor trying to load that battle).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 10:39pm
by rubixcuber
Oh, and just so you (well everyone for that matter) know, stuff like tying shops to NPCs is hard coded, but it is linked to the last value 'Dialog' in the NPC section of the map editor. So for example, map 3 sprite 11 is the item shop owner for Guardiana before it is destroyed and if you move the 98 value to someone else, they will be the item shop (and have his dialog).

I just need to make some sort of scripting editor for the routines called by those numbers. And somehow link all that data to the map editor and make a better way of editing it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 10:48pm
by katgirlfeli
I'm not sure what you mean by "Last value". The editor shows Map 3 having 25 sprites, and 218 as the highest value. What makes 98 the "Last" value? Also, how would this work in regards to multiple shops? (I mean, several towns have both an "Item" and a "Weapon" shop), so simply the "last value" being one particular value doesn't seem right as there should be two values. It sounds a little confusing.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 10:51pm
by rubixcuber
By last value I just meant the last column, the Dialog column. That number is just an index into some hard coded events for the map. So for each map there are different numbers which have been tied to shops.

For map 3 (which actually isn't related to the map number, so I should probably change that label...) a value of 98 in the Dialog column will cause that sprite/npc to use the item shop owner's dialog and open that shop.

The way they did it was to build the shop opening directly into the character's dialog lines, so changing the dialog set changes the shop as well.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 10:58pm
by katgirlfeli
Ah, yes. I figured that the "Dialog" would be what determines if its a shop or not. (i once tried to follow the X, Y values to the NPCs, but it didn't seem to match up well with the Map Editor's X,Y values.)

I suppose the more important question then would be how to assign a "Shop" to a particular dialog value on a map (though I suppose a "Dialog" editor of some sort would need to be created, figuring which and how many lines random NPCs chat through for that specific Dialog value on the map, as well as how shops are tied to those Dialog values.)

Edit: I suppose I never really questioned too much that there were 53 maps of NPCs yet the game doesn't really have that many maps >_>;

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 11:00pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, I think the next big thing I'm going to do is build the sprite/npc editing into the map editor and add some sort of dialog editor for selecting lines and event flags and such.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02 2012 11:03pm
by katgirlfeli
If the NPCs/Sprites show up on the map itself so that we don't have to deal with that "NPC list" menu, that'd be a lot easier to deal with, lol. Crossreferencing X,Y values to unknown maps isn't the easiest way to deal with it at the moment, I suppose.

Edit: Another thing that popped into my mind: The Health Bar itself. My Mod (for many enemies and some Force members) exceeds values over 100 for HP values. Its probably obvious but here it goes:

1: Would the HP/MP Bar fit 3 values on it (or is there a way to see how to modify length of the Status Window to allow it to be included).

2: The Bar itself. How much if the bar itself goes up to 100 and doesn't get longer nor does it show a Red Bar until the health reaches under 100. The possibilities I could see with this is to either somehow work in the multiple colored bar system Shining Force 2 has (which i'm not sure how easy this would be), or to somehow have the health bar color itself based on a percentage of health rather than health under 100 (so if you're at 450 out of 500 HP, 90% of the bar would be Yellow and 10% would be Red), but since the "length of the bar" is determined by how much HP you actually have (up to 100), if "Bar Length" is handled separately vs the "Red/Yellow" Bar portion)

I suppose this is only a cosmetic issue and is not so important in regards to the gameplay (as you can still check the character's Status Page for full HP info), its merely a convenience/presentation thing. That and I just say what's on my mind o.x

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 10:28am
by T300
katgirlfeli wrote:The possibilities I could see with this is to either somehow work in the multiple colored bar system Shining Force 2 has (which i'm not sure how easy this would be)

I ALWAYS Wanted this :D

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 1:30pm
by Wetwille
Wow, lot to process, but anyways...

The warp into the castle maze works, but the warp out of the castle keeps trying to send you to map -1 for some reason and it keeps doing that every time I've saved it. I moved the entrance point and warp out points farther into the maze to compensate for the whole "5 tile buffer" the game has and still come up with this issue.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 3:03pm
by rubixcuber
I think I may have been misunderstanding your issue Wetwille. I haven't slept in a few days so I'm not at 100% right now. If you can figure out the fastest way to recreate the issue with a fresh rom, or maybe just PM me a copy of your hack I'll try to see what is going on.

And I guess I'll add the HP bar stuff to the list, but not sure when I'll get around to it. Just changing it to percentage based should be pretty easy. Adding the colored bar system probably less so.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 4:52pm
by Wetwille
I think it may have to do with the extra chest in the map. I added chests to the end of the mazes to make people think about what chest they wanted

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 5:03pm
by katgirlfeli
I could only imagine extra treasure chests only having an affect on in-game flags, not something in the editor though o.x Not saying it isn't possible, just not sure how it would affect it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 5:20pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, yeah, that is quite possible. I'd probably hold off on adding new chests to maps, I'm not really sure where it ends up saving that to RAM if you add more chests to a map. I'll have to see if there's any way to tie the new chests to a specific ram value. Hopefully they didn't just hard code it, like most of the other stuff I've looked into recently...

Which sprite set to load for a map was hard coded, which is a pain. I may just have to let you view/edit any of the sprite sets from any map. Or figure something clever out...


And I don't think he is talking about anything in the editor... I think the chest is trying to write to the ram used by the map data, and overwriting the teleport target or something else, causing it to link incorrectly.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 5:47pm
by katgirlfeli
But writing to the ram would be something that happens in-game, and it probably wouldn't have an effect in the editor at all (to show up as a -1 value).

Also, it would only seem to make sense for the portal to be altered AFTER opening said chest, where the 'Portal Map and "Is Chest Open" flag would conflict and change the value. Then again, the map probably does have to load in if the chest is "open" or "closed" when loading the map so I guess its possible for it to be affected when the map first loads in-game, but doesn't explain how the map value would show up at -1, which i assume is showing up in the editor, not in-game o.x

At least in regards to any logic that I understand, but knowing this game defies some programming logic that i'd use, my understanding would seem pointless.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 5:54pm
by rubixcuber
He never said anything about it showing up incorrectly in the editor though, just that 'the warp out of the castle keeps trying to send you to map -1 for some reason' which seems to be in game to me. If it does show the wrong number in the editor as well then it is a totally different issue from what I'm thinking and I'll need some confirmation from Wetwille.

Also, it depends on whether or not you were working from a save state. Because just having the chest on the map means at some point it has to try to initialize the ram value for that chest to being unopened, and thus clearing whatever was supposed to be at that spot.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 6:00pm
by Wetwille
It's fine warping from the town to the castle, and there is also a chest in the town, it's just that no matter how many times I check and reset the warp out of the castle, it messes up and sends me outside guardiana.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 6:08pm
by katgirlfeli
You shouldn't be trying to load from a save-state (that's already inside the map) like that. Always load up the map fresh before using it (by walking into it normally).

Well, the question prolly will require someone looking at it before it can be answered. Too many questions xD

Edit: My question was "How does one know it was going to Map -1 if it didn't tell you somewhere?" The game wouldn't tell you, so I only assume the editor tried to.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 2012 6:17pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I still can't get it to break whatever I do, so I'm really going to need that info/patch/ROM or something from you Wetwille to be able to help.

And that was exactly my point on the save state. That ram address has to be initialized as unopened at some point, so it doesn't need to wait until opening to possibly interfere with something, unless you're testing from a state with the map already loaded.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04 2012 3:34am
by Wetwille
I am loading from the town, not the castle. The warp seemed to break when I moved it, and I've also shuffled around events in the map,so they could also be contributing. For some reason, the warp from the town tithe castle works fine, it was just the warp from the castle to the town that was messing up

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04 2012 8:27pm
by rubixcuber
Haven't had a lot of time to work on new stuff, but... sprites on map editor!

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04 2012 8:41pm
by Lobo
Cool!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04 2012 10:06pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, new version is up with the visual sprite editing.

Need to relocate the sprite data and then make a way to add and remove sprites still, maybe sometime tonight or tomorrow, but it's still a lot better than what be had before.

Oh, and at least until I come up with a better way of doing things, you'll still have to go through the different sprite sets to try to find the one that matches the map, but it's much easier than trying to figure it out from the old editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05 2012 2:05pm
by Special T
rubixcuber wrote:Haven't had a lot of time to work on new stuff, but... sprites on map editor!


Awesome job! Thank you!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05 2012 6:39pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, new version up with ability to add and remove sprites.

Though, until I build some sort of dialog editor, you'll have to reuse the dialog values from other sprites, and other values will most likely crash, or behave oddly.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08 2012 1:40pm
by Lobo
No activity here lately? :eyebrow:

Well, recently, while playtesting my mod, I came across an enemy who received only half damage from physical attacks! :shock:

First I noticed he was taking less damage than his defense level would suggest, then, hitting him with different attack-level characters, I concluded he was taking half damage, which I'd never seen before and believe is not an actual feature in the editor.

Later in that battle (road to Runefaust), I crossed another unit of that particular enemy, who was not receiving half damage. The only difference between them was the first one had a mobility ring equipped.

So, maybe, could the mobility ring been giving him the 'half-damage-from-physical-attacks' ability? :eyebrow:

Haven't been able to test this theory yet, but as I found no activity here, I thought it's worthy to share this odd event with you guys.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08 2012 5:33pm
by katgirlfeli
I considered Land Effect to be an issue but now i'm facing some weird issues with it with my own testing

Even with the base game (although I did expand the rom to allow the test), Land Effect seems to work as follows:

The character and enemy had the same Movement Type (1)

If the Enemy has 0 DEF, then The ATK value of the attacking character is reduced by the Land Effect they are standing on.

I have 100 ATK, The Enemy has 0 DEF. If Max stands on a 15% Land Effect space, the Enemy will take 85 Damage. If Max stands on a 30% Land Effect space, the Enemy will take 70 damage. The space the enemy is on seems to have no effect.

I try the same thing, but this time giving the enemy 50 DEF. No matter who stood where, the attacks inflicted 50 Damage (which was 100 ATK - 50 DEF).

Since charts are easier to read:

The ATK of the attacker was 100.
The "Land Effect" is the value the attacking character is Standing On (as what panel the defending character was standing on did not seem to matter)

DEF of Enemy / 0% LE Damage / 15% LE Damage / 30% LE Damage
0 DEF / 100 / 85 / 70
1 DEF / 84 / 84 / 84
10 DEF / 63 / 63 / 63
20 DEF / 56 / 56 / 56
21 DEF / 67 / 67 / 67
25 DEF / 63 / 63 / 63
50 DEF / 50 / 50 / 50

I'm not sure what to tell from these results =/

Is Land Effect broken on Shining Force or is there something i'm not getting? Does it work differently for different types? Are the variables not taking in the values correctly and are getting negatives for some reason and are causing these weird fluctuations? I'm not getting any real answers other than "Land Effect only matters when the Enemy has 0 DEF. Otherwise, weird stuff happens" I also only tested this on the Pao Battle but with varying ground effects (being 15% and 30%) while also testing by making both the attacks/enemy Flying type (meaning they'd have 0% Land Effect) and only really got these results =/

Lastly, No. The Mobility Ring has no affect on Damage Taken from any of those tests o.x

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:21am
by rubixcuber
Anybody mess with the sprite editing yet?...

Anyways, I will look into the land effect stuff I guess.

How exactly were you doing your testing though? Damage is randomized somewhat and your table has exact values.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:24am
by katgirlfeli
That's because I set the Damage to 100% of its calculations with a +/- spread of 0%. Since there's no variance with a 0% spread, the damage is exact each time.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:35am
by rubixcuber
Gotcha, just making sure. Are you making sure to use the exact same squares/terrain values though?

I am unable to recreate those results using the first battle. Land effect does not change the value even at 0 defense. But there are multiple values for each terrain, and the defense bonus may be entirely independent of the land effect %.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:37am
by katgirlfeli
I tried in Battle 3 and Battle 12, both of which are outdoor/world map battles.

The enemies did not move from their respective spots, though each were on different terrain types.

I controlled Max moving around various sides of the enemies on different kinds of terrain when performing attacks.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:39am
by rubixcuber
Right. I'm guessing if you switched the locations of your 0 defense with the others, you will find that the defense bonus applies to the others just fine.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:40am
by katgirlfeli
There were multiple enemies with 0 DEF, all on different Land Types. I attacked each of them from multiple sides where the adjacent squares were of different land types as well.

This means a Max was standing on different land types while attacking an enemy who was also on different land types.

Both Max and the enemy had a Movement Type of 1, although changing either/or to flying didn't change the results.

Basically like this:
X1X X1X X1X X1X
213 223 233 243
X4X X4X X4X X4X

An enemy sits in the center with Land Types 1, 2, 3, and 4 while Max attacks each one from all sides (that are also from 1-4).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:48am
by rubixcuber
That doesn't have anything to do with what I asked, but whatever.

Can you just give me a battle number and terrain number that seemed to change the damage for you? I haven't found one so far that made any difference to the damage on any enemy.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:51am
by katgirlfeli
If you saw my chart, you should see exactly what I mean =/

Land Effect MADE NO DIFFERENCE if the enemy had any Defense values that wasn't 0.

Land Effect only affected the damage when the enemy had 0 DEF (as shown in the chart) =/ Otherwise, Damage was the same across the board when they had Defense, regardless of Land Effect of either the Attacker or Defender.

I'm not sure where my chart is mislabeled that it is misunderstood. Max had 100 ATK. The DEF of the Enemy is in the colomn. The "Land Effect" is the effect of the Attacker is standing on (as when tested, it didn't matter what the Land Effect of the person being attacked was, so that is not in the chart itself).

And even after that, unrelated to Land Effect, i got weird calculations, such as how 20 DEF can be better than 21 DEF.

The battles tested on were 3 and 12, which were both outdoor maps.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:55am
by rubixcuber
As I said before, I don't think the defense bonus is tied to the land effect %, but to the terrain itself.
Right now I can go into battle 1 and use land effect % of 0, 15, or 30 and have no effect on the damage of enemies with any amount of defense. I'm guessing that's because I'm using some different terrain than you are to test. So until I get that value, I can only say that everything seems consistent to me.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:56am
by katgirlfeli
If that's the case, then just say that Land Effect is irrelevant to Damage at all, which it seems to be except for when the enemy had 0 DEF.

Even if you used matching terrain, i'm not sure why it would make a difference between how 0 DEF works versus any amount of Defense on the same spaces.

As mentioned already, Battles 3 (To Alterone) and Battles 12 (Pao Prairie) which are both outdoors maps and most likely use the same terrains and therefore would have the same results.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:59am
by rubixcuber
Land Effect is irrelevent, yes. But terrain may or may not be.

I haven't seen the difference with 0 DEF myself.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 1:59am
by katgirlfeli
I've said it three times now :D Battles 3 and 12 (so whichever their corresponding maps are, with are both world maps and probably share the same values).

The terrains tested were 1-4.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 2:27am
by rubixcuber
Well, I didn't see any of those values when I first read the posts. They were edited in... Regardless I apologize.

I was just trying to get some specifics from you since everything I've tried fails to reproduce the issue. I realize I was a bit curt, but I felt like I was spending time on a bit of a wild goose chase.

I went ahead anyways and tried battle 3 (by which I assume you mean the one after Guardiana is attacked, since battle 3 in the editor is Alterone and you said it was world map). I put four goblins with 0 DEF on terrains 1-4 and four Dark Dwarves with 3 DEF on terrains 1-4 and attacked them from a couple different terrain types. Still no difference in damage for me.

I'm not really sure what else to offer. If you want to send me a patch of the rom with a setup that displays this issue, I'll be happy to look at it I guess, but I can't find this issue.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 3:46am
by katgirlfeli
I'll double check it to make sure i didn't make a mistake but i'll link it to you if i keep getting the same results.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 3:35pm
by rubixcuber
Alright, well, I'm going to go ahead and start adding more terrain stuff to the editor, since that was coming up on my to do list anyways.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 4:09pm
by katgirlfeli
Maybe I should change that: Battle 3 is not saving terrain changes. If you change the terrain in Battle 12 it works fine.

Edit: I see. Battle 3 uses the same terrain map as Battle 2 (at least the editor loads and saves it that way). In order to do any terrain changes to Battle 3, you'd need to do them in Battle 2. (Battle 2 being the battle returning to Guardiana)

Testing with 2 different monsters, since you said you used "Goblins" as one.

The Test: Enemies are standing on top of Land Types 1 (Mountain, 30% LE), 4 (Green Plains, 15% LE), and 7 (Dirt, 0% LE). The surrounding panels for Max to stand on are 1, 4, 7, and 2 (Forests, 30%). Max Has 100 ATK. Damage is inflicted at 100% of its calculated value with a +/- 0% spread.

Tests with Dummy Goblin (Monster ID: 0) (X = Terrain of Enemy, Y = Terrain of Max), Entry is Damage Received.

0 DEF / 1 / 4 / 7
1 / 70 / 70 / 70
2 / 70 / 70 / 70
4 / 85 / 85 / 85
7 / 100 / 100 / 100

1 DEF / 1 / 4 / 7
1 / 84 / 84 / 84
2 / 84 / 84 / 84
4 / 84 / 84 / 84
7 / 84 / 84 / 84

Switched to the Dummy I was using, which was Enemy Number 10, which was a Mage-Type character. The results were exactly the same. i assume the rest follows the chart I made previously.

I suppose to note I did not test against other Weapon Types, other character Movement Types, or other Enemy Movement Types in case they have any effect. I did in the previous test set Max/Enemy as "Flying" (Movement Type 6) but with no change in the damage output.

Here's the link to the patch and the save state (so you can just walk out of Guardiana into the Battle). With this you can test what I've been testing. I changed the map graphics as well so you don't have to cross-reference which space had what terrain type (meaning I put Mountains on the 1s, etc)

http://www.mediafire.com/?xe248cdv0ffgkcx

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 6:26pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, I see what you mean. I guess I'll have to figure out a better way to handle the shared map battles.

I definitely see it, now that the terrain changes are actually applied.

I'll try to find the code for what it is doing, because that certainly is bizarre...

Edit: At least I thought I saw it... now I'm not getting any differences again...

I'm guessing the code is totally bugged somehow... and some other value is overwriting the bonus or something causing it not to work in most cases. I'll try to track it down...

Edit2: Ok, code at 211B4

02:11B4 34 3C MOVE.w #$0064,D2
02:11B8 94 41 SUB.W D1,D2
02:11BA C7 C2 MULS.W D2,D3
02:11BC 87 FC DIVS.W #$0064,D3
02:11C0 4C DF MOVEM.L (A7)+,{a7-d0}[01 07]
02:11C4 4E 75 RTS

Multiplies damage by (100 - land effect %) and then divides by 100, reducing the damage by the land effect value.

Now to just figure out why it's not always working, or being called.

Edit3: First test case...

Attacking from LE 30% with 100 ATT against 0 DEF = 70 Damage which is correct
Attacking from LE 30% with 100 ATT against 5 DEF = 66 Damage which is correct

Attacking from LE 15% with 100 ATT against 0 DEF = 85 Damage which is correct
Attacking from LE 15% with 100 ATT against 5 DEF = 66 Damage which is wrong...

It appears to have called 211B4 with 30 in the last case for some reason...

Hmm... the last two cases are terrain 4 attacking terrain 1. For some reason it used terrain 4 to calculate the damage decrease against the DEF 0, and terrain 1 against the DEF 5. Which doesn't make any sense at all...

Edit4:
Uh... even attacking from terrain 7 to terrain 7 it uses terrain 1 to calculate the defense bonus in the other case, so something is wrong with the code that is loading the terrain type...

So, I guess I need to follow the code a bit further back.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 7:49pm
by katgirlfeli
I'm also getting weird calculations that were different from what I was receiving yesterday, and I have no idea why =/ I give them 10 DEF or more than its calculating the damage pure without any issues (meaning 100 ATK - 10 DEF = 90 Damage).

1 DEF still gives 84 Damage and 5 DEF gives 66 Damage like you said, yet now i'm just getting 90 Damage for 10 DEF (unlike 63 which I calculated yesterday =/ Maybe I did something wrong yesterday, or something else is up here that I'm not sure of x.x) Why is this so weird? ._.

Quickie Test from 0% to 0% (the Dirt Tiles, although after 0 DEF, the Damage was not affected by Land Effect either way)

0 DEF = 100 Damage
1 DEF = 84 Damage
2 DEF = 68 Damage
3 DEF = 97 Damage
4 DEF = 81 Damage
5 DEF = 66 Damage
6 DEF = 94 Damage
7 DEF = 93 Damage
8 DEF = 92 Damage
9 DEF = 91 Damage
10 DEF = 90 Damage

Why are damages for 1 DEF and 4 DEF affected by 15% and Damage 2 DEF and 5 DEF affected by 30%, while the rest seems unaltered with 0% LE? =/

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 7:53pm
by rubixcuber
It appears to be loading the totally wrong target for some reason.

Looking at the trace, I'm pretty sure it was looking at the Test Dummy 2 at 7,9 even though I was attacking the one at 11,9...

I don't know if that's a bug in the original game, or caused by something I've done. Have you been able to see any of the unexpected values on a rom without editing battles or maps at all?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:00pm
by katgirlfeli
What I sent you was my current version of the mod, tailored to make the testing easier. I'll try doing tests on a Clean game I suppose.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:01pm
by rubixcuber
Did another test just to be sure. It is definitely looking at the enemy at 7,9 when I attack the one at 11,9. So need to find out why the target value is wrong...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:03pm
by katgirlfeli
Think it has something to do with how the Editor is adding NPCs to battle? The way I did it to set this up was to delete all the enemies on the Map, then used the + function to add the enemies. Perhaps something is missing (Enemy ID or Pointer-related and any enemies added this way point to the same enemy (or perhaps defaulted to Enemy 0 on the map?)

I'll try doing the test over again, this time instead of using the + to add enemies in the Editor, I will take pre-existing enemies and position/change them.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:05pm
by rubixcuber
I don't think so. It appears to be a horrible mistake on their part, based on what I've found so far.

They seem to have accidentally overwritten the target with enemy's defense. So it will pull the land effect bonus from a different character depending on what the enemy's defense is. Resulting in bizarre and inconsistent results...

Since Max is ID 0, if you attack an enemy with defense of 0, it will properly see him as the target to use for checking land effect and things will come out right.

And don't worry about the testing, I think I can pretty safely say it is their issue, and I should be able to fix it...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:10pm
by katgirlfeli
rubixcuber wrote:Since Max is ID 0, if you attack an enemy with defense of 0, it will properly see him as the target to use for checking land effect.


So in order for it to work properly, the ID for the attacking character needs to match the Defense of the enemy for Land Effect to be calculated in? I could try using other characters in the test as well. As you said regarding "inconsistent results", it could be why my info yesterday differs from my info today >_<

Edit: Alrighty. I always thought Land Effect gave the person standing in it less damage (instead of lowering the ATK as its doing to Max when HE stands in it). I'm not sure how it worked in Shining Force 2 though, if its meant to lower the Attacker's Damage, or to reduce the character's standing in it's Damage Taken. Hopefully that didn't sound too confusing.

Land Effect was never clearly explained in any guides (at least not the Shining Force 1 Manual that I can remember, I never owned a Shining Force 2 manual).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:13pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, I have a fix now.

If you change the 1001 to 4E71 at 0x211AC it will fix their goof and seems to work properly. I'm not sure if that will break anything else, so some testing on that would be good.

This fix will make it lower your damage dealt. I could probably try to fix it where it lowers damage taken, since that makes more sense, but that will take a little more work.


Edit: Don't use that, there's a proper fix in the editor now.

At least for SF1, that bug is probably why there's no information on it...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:26pm
by katgirlfeli
Reading up on a few faqs of SF2, the consensus seems to be that it raises the player who is standing in higher Land Effect's Defense by the percentage (so a 20 DEF character on a 30% LE will be treated as having 26 DEF during Damage Calculation)

I suppose its not a big deal to change it. Just having Land Effect work consistently and correctly in some form is already a huge deal :D. Although, for matching with Shining Force 2, having it boost Defense of the person standing on it (rather than lowering the ATK of the person standing on it) would be nice due to consistency between the two games.

One step at a time though. Getting LE to work in some way should be the priority.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:28pm
by rubixcuber
Well, the fix I posted will make it work consistently, but backwards.

But now I understand what they were thinking and how it was supposed to work, and should be able to make it work right.

They have the proper value in register D0, and then overwrite it during a function call. Then they try to restore it from D1, thinking they had backed it up there, but D1 had just been loaded with the defense value. I think if I move a couple commands around I can make this work right...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 8:56pm
by katgirlfeli
Changed the values using a hex editor as mentioned and it works fine from what I'm seeing.

I suppose we definitely got sidetracked from Lobo's question, but perhaps the funky values he was getting for that one enemy might just happened to match up the correct variables for the damage to be reduced by the land effect, and to why his enemy seemed to be taking "half damage".

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:05pm
by rubixcuber
Ok, new version is up.

Added the land effect fix (proper one, which boosts defense) to the mechanics editor.

Also, a couple of small enhancements to the battle editor. And some of my new terrain modifications are in there as well.

You can see some of the terrain data now in the battle editor, though nothing can be edited yet.

I'll be making a full terrain editor soon. And add the ability to change the terrain set for the battle.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:20pm
by katgirlfeli
Your Fix -ALMOST- works.

It is increasing the Defense of the enemy by the proper amount BUT it is still basing the LE based off of the Attacker, not the Defender. This means the enemy gets 15% more DEF if Max is Standing in a 15% LE Zone for example rather than the enemy standing in a 15% LE Zone as it should be.

Edit: Hm, now i'm not sure sure, here's my results-

Max attacks from 0% Zone to a 0% Enemy with 50 DEF = 50 Damage (100 ATK - 50 DEF * 1.00) = 50 Damage
Max attacks from 15% Zone to a 0% Enemy with 50 DEF = 44 Damage (100 ATK - 50 DEF * 1.15) = 44 Damage
Max attacks from 30% Zone to a 0% Enemy with 50 DEF = 50 Damage (100 ATK - 50 DEF * 1.30) = 36 Damage

But now I get these values testing on this Goblin with 20 DEF

Max attacks from 0% Zone to a 0% Enemy with 20 DEF = 80 Damage (100 ATK - 20 DEF * 1.00) = 80 Damage
Max attacks from 15% Zone to a 0% Enemy with 20 DEF = 68 Damage (100 ATK - 20 DEF * 1.15) = 77 Damage
Max attacks from 30% Zone to a 0% Enemy with 50 DEF = 56 Damage (100 ATK - 20 DEF * 1.3) = 74 Damage

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:24pm
by rubixcuber
Which fix? As I said, the original one was a simple fix, and was backwards.

The one applied by the editor should be the right way around.

You will have to undo the first fix though, changing the 4E71 back to a 1001 at 0x211AC, or it will be backwards/broken still. I'm betting that's what happened. If not let me know, and I'll look into it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:29pm
by katgirlfeli
One sec and i'll tell you.

Edit: Patched a clean rom with the patch I gave you earlier (which was before the 1001 change), checked the "LE Fix" box and its doing less than the other rom was doing and isn't calculating any LE at all for whatever reason =/

Edit 2: The "LE Fix" box wont stay checked when reloading it in the editor as well after saving the mechanics page, so the "saving" part doesn't seem to be applying when you save the mechanics page, though i'm not sure about the values in the test I had earlier, which checking seemed to have a change to (on the rom witt the 1001 changed), though that rom shows it as unchecked when reloading it in the editor as well.

To reiterate Edit 2, The "LE Fix" seems to have no effect on a rom without the 1001 changed (damage was flat across the board with no changes), and had a change in the rom with the 1001 change (where the LE seemed to kick in but was not consistent across the board), and in both cases, the checkbox does not stay checked.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:43pm
by rubixcuber
Yep, sorry, was in a rush I guess. The saving code for the fix was tied to the wrong check box.

Fixed and uploaded a new version. Should work properly now.

And I did some more testing before I realized that was the issue and still coming out perfect so far.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:44pm
by katgirlfeli
Testing again...~

Edit: While it is now properly basing it off the enemy's Land Effect, i'm still getting mixed values.

While 50 DEF seemed to be calculated correctly (dealing 50, 42, 35 Damage while standing in 0/15/30% LE), when given 20 DEF, the calculations become 80, 68, 56 when the expected values should be 80, 77, 74.

It seems the calculation you changed it to is that you're reducing the damage they take by 15% or 30% based on the LE.

What its supposed to be doing is increasing the DEF of the character by 15% or 30%, meaning a character with 20 DEF would be treated as having 26 DEF, so 100 ATK - 26 DEF = 74 Damage.

It just turns out that the calculations are the same in regards to 50 DEF (as with 50 DEF you take 50 Damage so the calculations were evening out).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:53pm
by rubixcuber
That's not the way they coded it. And I'm not sure that that would make sense.

If you have 0 DEF, the land effect doesn't help you at all?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:54pm
by katgirlfeli
I'm just basing it on what I read earlier in regards to Shining Force 2. The Defense is increased, not the Damage reduced, but maybe it was planned that way for Shining Force 1 and was just different in SF2. Perhaps those who play Shining Force 2 more can enlighten us o.x

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:55pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I'm not sure what SF2 has to do with anything. I didn't change the calculation, I just fixed a bug in their code that made it pull the wrong values. The code that adjusts the damage based on land effect doesn't even run until after it has adjusted the damage for defense.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:56pm
by katgirlfeli
I'm fine with it either way then. Having it reduce the damage would definitely help lower Defense characters better than boosting their measly defense by a few numbers :o

That being said, everything works as planned then.

I only mentioned Shining Force 2 as a reference, perhaps as to how LE works in it could be brought over here (since SF1 didn't really work at all how they had it xD).

Since the way you set it up is close to how they originally programmed it in SF1 (giving it what you suspect is the intended effect based on the calculations), its probably better to have it this way.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 9:59pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, if SF2 somehow works differently I think it's worse. If you're in cover, you should be protected regardless of your defense value.

And I'm guessing SF2 people may have just referred to it as 'increasing defense' because they hadn't looked at the actual code, and only knew that it did reduce the damage taken.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 10:02pm
by katgirlfeli
That may be true as well, as that may be hearsay on someone's baseless assumption, without looking at it from a technical standpoint (or it is indeed that way and just different from SF1). In any case, great work :D Surely this will be appreciated, fixing a broken mechanic to be something of tactical use, adding more strategy.

I never really knew Land Effect calculations were broken in SF1 until those tests I did, though glad to have stumbled upon them. I suppose I should thank Lobo for bringing it up.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 10:05pm
by rubixcuber
And thanks for all of your testing and back and forth. I'm not sure I would have done enough testing to find that bug easily without you throwing all of those results at me. Somehow I managed to keep setting up tests that didn't alter the damage at all, so I wasn't convinced there was a bug...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 10:07pm
by katgirlfeli
No problem :D Glad to be of service. Its that programmer's spirit in me (meaning that ability and need to problem solve when there's issues)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 10:23pm
by rubixcuber
Now I just need to figure out what the other three values for terrain mean. Land effect %, move cost ... and three unknowns!

And now that Land Effect stuff works properly, we'll have a good reason to add in values other than 15 and 30.

Heh...

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 10:40pm
by katgirlfeli
I'm not sure how much i can help with that, but an issue I had when playing around in the Dark Dragon battle.

When I was playing around with the Dark Dragon battle, I wanted a land effect that I could place so that no one person could stand on the spawning squares that the enemies come out of, I tried all 7, but none did what I wanted without to do, but something to mention:

In that battle, Terrain Types 0, 5, 6, and 7 cannot be walked into by characters of any movement type. Also, attacks cannot penetrate those areas (for example, a character cannot target an enemy on that spot, and a ranged character cannot attack through it with an attack or spell.)

Therefore, one of those values might determine what's considered a "wall". A place that cannot be walked into or attacked through.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 10:41pm
by rubixcuber
The wall is handled by setting a movement cost of -1, so that is already taken care of. Well, the unable to move through part at least. I'm not sure if there is any reason to separate the attack through part or not, but perhaps.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 10:45pm
by katgirlfeli
The movement cost also handles if the attack/target blocking capabilities of those panels and beyond as well? Alright then. Other than that, I had nothing else I could think of off-hand.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 2012 10:48pm
by rubixcuber
Well, I revised to say I wasn't sure about that part. I wouldn't be surprised if they had dual purposed it, by checking the movement value for flying type or something, but since we do have three more values, one of them may very well be that.

Edit: Ok, I looked up those values you mentioned. Anything that ends up with terrain index 0 is a square you can't move into or attack through. But changing the values tied to that index changed that, so there definitely is something set there.

Edit2: Went ahead and put up a new editor with the terrain editor. You can only get to it from the menu for now though. It's under 'Battle'. You can also edit the terrain set for the battles in the battle editor now.

Going to try to do some tests and figure out what the other three terrain values do, but if anyone wants to play around with them as well that might help.

Edit3: Ok, the third value is background, corresponding to half the sprite number in the graphics editor (since each is made up of two parts). Also, adding 128 to the value uses an alternate palette. And the fourth value is the platform type to use. So, just need to figure out the second one.

Edit4: Put up another version. Labeled the platform and background values and added a button to access the terrain editor.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 12:52am
by katgirlfeli
Ah, background and the platform o.x Of course xD

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 2:56am
by rubixcuber
Yep, that was nice to find. Can actually do some interesting stuff with terrain now.

I think I'm not going to worry about the other value for the moment. It doesn't appear to be used at all, and I'm not sure if it actually does anything, a couple quick tests didn't show anything obvious.

If somebody else feels like playing with it though, be my guest.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 7:28am
by katgirlfeli
Looking at the Terrain editor is kinda nice, but two things:

1) There's no way to exit the Terrain Menu back to the Battle Editor >_<

2) If you use the "Battle Editor" button to try and go back, it puts you in a random battle, rather than the one you were working on.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 3:54pm
by rubixcuber
Hmm, yeah I suppose that would be nice. You can get to it without going through the battle editor, but I can just have it remember if you got to it from there and save the selected battle, so everything is a bit more seamless.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 4:20pm
by katgirlfeli
But remember that there's two things on that Editor: The Terrain Information which determines Battles Backgrounds, Platforms and stuff (which is irrelevant to which battle you are on), but also the 2nd section below it, where "Type 0 - 15" are the Terrain Effects for the Battle you're currently working on (where you can change the Land Effect % values).

It does no good for the "Types" section to go directly from the menu to the Terrain Editor without some way to choose which "Battle" you're changing the Land Effects/Movement Costs for within that menu (or so long as you can safely switch back and forth from the Battle Editor to the Terrain Editor).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 4:56pm
by rubixcuber
Put up a new version with a button to return, or via escape key.

I think I've given you the wrong idea about that data somehow.
Both sections are totally battle independent. There are only 16 terrain types, total.

There are 125 terrains, each with 4 values. The first value chooses one of the 16 types, which determine its land effect and movement cost. Each battle chooses 16 of those 125 terrains to work with, but the terrain editor just gives all 125 to edit, regardless of what battle you were in if you used the button in the battle editor.

I was considering just giving terrain its own section, but since that is only used for battles it seemed better just to link it in there. I guess having that button there does sort of seem to imply that you are editing something for that battle though...

Maybe I could do something like highlight the ones being used by the battle you were in or something.

Edit: Ok, went ahead and did that. If you enter the terrain editor from a battle, it will highlight the entries used by that battle in red.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 5:50pm
by katgirlfeli
Ah I see it now. The Type is tied to the "Terrain" in the first section with the Background Animations/Platforms rather than with the battle.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 5:59pm
by rubixcuber
Yeah, anything I can do to make that clearer?

It's hard sometimes to figure out the best way to convey things in the editor. It all makes sense to me because I know how everything works and fits together, and generally exactly how they coded it.

I should really update my ROM map thread some more too. I think if I did a better job of writing stuff down and put everything I knew in there, it would be nearly 100% complete...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 7:38pm
by katgirlfeli
I just simply misunderstood with the first glance I made and made the wrong assumption about it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 7:55pm
by rubixcuber
Fair enough.

Looking into the dialog stuff now. I really don't like the way they did it...

This may be another one of those times where it's better to just throw out all of their code and start over, like I did with the books...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 10:29pm
by acsound
rubixcuber wrote:Fair enough.

Looking into the dialog stuff now. I really don't like the way they did it...

This may be another one of those times where it's better to just throw out all of their code and start over, like I did with the books...


You're seriously considering recoding Shining Force? It's amazing that the Sega cartridges worked. ;)

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 11:18pm
by rubixcuber
I've already recoded a number of different sections, including but not limited to chests, books, ranges, attack areas, text loading, stats, etc. So not so much considering recoding, as considering more recoding.

And I'm not sure how much it did work, considering I spent the last couple pages of this thread fixing a bug of theirs that made land effect not work at all!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 2012 11:47pm
by katgirlfeli
To think, after 20 years, Land Effect did not work correctly nor did we ever consider it.

Not that I expect the original game to be any harder because of it.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 2012 6:08am
by rubixcuber
Well, figured I'd update a little. Slowed down a bit, but did manage to create a new shop and add it and some text to an NPC.

Not that this means anything to anyone probably, but the code for displaying a shop:

70 11 MOVEQ #$XX,D0 //XX is shop number
42 41 CLR.W D1
12 2E MOVE.b $FFFD(A6),D1
14 2E MOVE.b $FFFF(A6),D2
E1 4A LSL.W #0,D2
14 2E MOVE.b $FFFE(A6),D2
61 00 BSR #$FFFFAE5E [01:68FE]

Who needs story text? Just make everything a shop!

Image

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14 2012 4:26am
by Earl
Is the subroutine at 0x0168FE doing most of the heavy lifting?

In SF2's mapsetups shops are done like
Code: Select all
                move.b  #$xx, ($FFFFB6D2).w
                jsr     (Offset_0x020000)

Where xx is the shop number and 0x020000 is the subroutine that handles all the shop actions (decreasing gold and adding items/increasing gold and removing them, and so on).

If it's like that, what's the significance of the stuff between the first move and the bsr?
Of course I could be comparing apples and oranges and I just don't have the know-how to tell the difference...

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14 2012 4:53am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, the 0x168FE routine handles all of the messages and menus and interaction for the shop.

They are using A6 as a pointer to some values that were set up on the stack earlier. I'm guessing the 0x168FE routine actually handles things other than shops as well, since two of those values are just always set to 0 before it runs that section, but I haven't looked at the code too closely yet.

Edit: And that routine just allocates some new memory and sticks them back in again... It seems like they've decided they needed to allocate some extra memory for this routine, though without looking into it further, I'm not sure what they need it for.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17 2012 2:03am
by SonGosun
Is there a way to add battle frames for characters, specifically Jogurt?

It seemed, if I read the editor right I can make him level normally now and well make him a more normal character, so I was kind of interested in trying to do that.

So I made a quick sprite edit of Jogurt from the GBA game and Kiwi and and stole the shield from the gladiator.

Image

It still needs a bit of tweaking, just a first draft, but I wasn't sure if I should bother.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17 2012 3:49am
by Lobo
Looks cool! :excited:

I don't think we can add frames by now, but I can't see why rubix wouldn't be able to add this one more feature.
Also, I think it would be nice to be able to add palettes to sprites. Specialy for making new enemies.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17 2012 6:04am
by rubixcuber
Well, I mean I can make it so you can add additional frames, but the problem is that the animations have to be set up to use them. It probably shouldn't be too hard to do, but I'd have to look into it.

Edit: Didn't have any time to work over the weekend, but started up a bit again. Moving fairly quickly when I manage to find time to research.

Trying to put together a set of all the different possible actions that can be coded in the dialog/event system, so I can build some form of editor.

So far I know these:

Check event flag (X is event number, Y is where to continue if flag isn't set)
Code: Select all
30 3C  MOVE.w  #$XXXX,D0
61 00  BSR     #$FFFFEEBA [01:7C6A]
66 00  BNE     #$YYYY [01:8F66]


Set event flag (X is event number)
Code: Select all
30 3C  MOVE.w  #$XXXX,D0
61 00  BSR     #$FFFFEEBA [01:7C5E]


Check dialog group (X is dialog group, Y is where to continue if it doesn't match)
Code: Select all
0C 41  CMPI.W  #$XXXX,D1
66 16  BNE     #$YY [01:8DD2]


Check dialog number (X is dialog number, Y is where to continue if it doesn't match)
Code: Select all
0C 42  CMPI.W  #$XXXX,D2
66 16  BNE     #$YY [01:8DD2]


Set message bank (X is message number to start from
Code: Select all
3C 3C  MOVE.w  #$XXXX,D6


Set Portrait (X is portrait number)
Code: Select all
70 XX  MOVEQ   #$XX,D0
4E 94  JSR     (A4)


Display banked message (X is message number, which is added to the value set up earlier)
Code: Select all
70 XX  MOVEQ   #$XX,D0
4E 95  JSR     (A5)   


Display Shop (X is shop number)
Code: Select all
70 XX  MOVEQ   #$XX,D0
42 41  CLR.W   D1
12 2E  MOVE.b  $FFFD(A6),D1
14 2E  MOVE.b  $FFFF(A6),D2
E1 4A  LSL.W   #0,D2
14 2E  MOVE.b  $FFFE(A6),D2
61 00  BSR     #$FFFFAE5E [01:68FE]
4A 41  TST.W   D1                     
56 EE  STNE    $FFFD(A6)
1D 42  MOVE.b  D2,$FFFE(A6)


Display Priest Menu
Code: Select all
42 41  CLR.W   D1
12 2E  MOVE.b  $FFFD(A6),D1
14 2E  MOVE.b  $FFFF(A6),D2
E1 4A  LSL.W   #0,D2
14 2E  MOVE.b  $FFFE(A6),D2
61 00  BSR     #$FFFFAE5E [01:7028]
4A 41  TST.W   D1                     
56 EE  STNE    $FFFD(A6)   
1D 42  MOVE.b  D2,$FFFE(A6)


Display Yes/No Choice (X = message to show on yes (added to bank), Y = message to show on no (added to bank)
Code: Select all
MOVE.W    #$XXYY,D0
BSR       $00018046(pc)


Branch on Yes/No Choice
Code: Select all
BSR       $00018056(pc)
BEQ       $XX


Backup Bank Number
Code: Select all
3F 06 MOVE.W    D6,-(A7)


Restore Bank Number
Code: Select all
3C 1F MOVE.W    (A7)+,D6


Set Sprite Direction (X = Sprite, Y = Direction)
Code: Select all
MOVEQ     #$XX,D0
MOVEQ     #$YY,D1
JSR       $00011126


Display 'No one is in that direction.'
Code: Select all
BRA       $000180B4(pc)


Display Message (Dialog Number - 1 + Bank)
Code: Select all
BRA       $000180A6(pc)



Edit2: Ok, I've built a pattern matching engine into the editor and given it profiles for all of these different commands. Basically I have the dialog scripts loading now, minus some tweaking and checking for other commands I've missed. So, need to work on editing and saving now.

Edit3: Still working away. Got pretty much all of the basic commands now, just need to work out some of the more complicated ones. I know the 0x17FF6 routine is related to people joining the force, but need to figure out how to use it properly.

Edit4: Phew... think these are all of the member joining related functions:

17FE0-17FF5 Calls 2002C, 20014
2002C -> 221AE Adds member to force and active team if open, sorts team list

20014 -> 22026 Loads active force members' stats into A1B6 table (21BDC, 220B8, 21C9C)

17FF6-18045 Play member join sound effect, and display message

21BDC-21BF5 Clears battle member data table (A1B6)

21C9C-21CCD Loads member D1 stats into A1B6

22026-22049 Loads active force members' stats into A1B6 table (21BDC, 220B8, 21C9C)

220B8-220C7 Exactly the same as 221D4...

2210E-22131 Sets active team member D1 to D0, unless already a member and calls 22176

22158-22175 Gets first open slot in active team, if there is one

22176-221AD Sort active team list

221AE-221D3 Adds character D0 to force (if not already)
Adds to active team if open slot (22158,2210E)

221D4-221E3 Checks if member D0 is in force

So, to add a single force member they just do this: (x = member id)

Code: Select all
MOVE.L    D0,-(A7)
MOVEQ     #$XX,D0
BSR       $00017FE0(pc)
MOVEM.L   (A7)+,D0
MOVEM.L   D0-D1/D6,-(A7)
MOVEQ     #$16,D0
MOVE.W    #$0397,D6
MOVEQ     #$XX,D1
BSR       $00017FF6(pc)
MOVEM.L   (A7)+,D0-D1/D6


Need to look into how they handle multiple people joining, like in the beginning.

Apparently they just change the message number, and message 748 was just set to "(Luke, Ken, Tao, and Hans join the Shining Force!)"

And is it just me in here now? Am I scaring everyone away with code notes?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 12:06am
by Special T
Nope, I've been reading all you're updates. I also wanted to bump the topic since you've made 4 edits to the same post :-)

Based on your last edit, we can add everyone at the beginning of the game now?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 12:16am
by rubixcuber
Well, I can at least. Making a proper editor for this scripting might take a bit!

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 1:02am
by Lobo
rubixcuber wrote:And is it just me in here now? Am I scaring everyone away with code notes?


Scare? No.
But I can understand them well like I understand swedish. :)

I already knew there was a special message for when Luke, Ken, Tao and Hans join though.
And if I'm not mistaken, Mae, Balbaroy and Amon don't get 'member join sound effect' when they join, but a sad theme similar to Shade Abbey song.
Don't know if that happens to someone else. Maybe Gort?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 1:29am
by rubixcuber
Yeah, the 16 is the sound effect and 397 the message to use I believe.

Also found another command, an interesting one.

Set Text Sound (X = Sprite Number)
Code: Select all
2F 00  MOVE.L    D0,-(A7)
10 3C  MOVE.B    #$XX,D0
61 00  BSR       $00017F64(pc)
20 1F  MOVE.L    (A7)+,D0


When different people are talking, the sound it makes can be different, and it is set like that.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 4:42am
by Earl
Need to look into how they handle multiple people joining, like in the beginning.

Apparently they just change the message number, and message 748 was just set to "(Luke, Ken, Tao, and Hans join the Shining Force!)"

Cool, I was curious about that; the Sarah + Chester join in SF2 is handled a little differently, and like Mae, Balbaroy and Amon, Kazin gets sad music (they're all handled in the same subroutine, though, which I guess is not the case here?).

And where are the character join flags being set (since there's no writing to RAM in that last subroutine)? In one of those BSRs? Or are there not flags for that?

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 5:16am
by rubixcuber
All the same routine. The 0x16 value is the sound to use and the 0x397 is the message to use.

And yeah, the 17FE0 routine calls 221AE which handles the flags and such.

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 5:30am
by Earl
rubixcuber wrote:All the same routine. The 0x16 value is the sound to use and the 0x397 is the message to use.

So joins that didn't use that message or that sound would have to use a different right?
I mean, I could see 397 being always used for join messages (since you explained waay earlier about an index being added to the dialog numbers to get the script line)... but there would have to be differences for happy/sad music (or no music and message, like IIRC Jogurt gets... although he's Jogurt, so it wouldn't surprise me if everything about the %$^%$ was a special case...).

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 5:46am
by rubixcuber
Well, that code there isn't a routine, that's just the lines of code used in the dialog scripting. The ones that use different music and such just use different values.

The dialog scripting is just a gigantic block of code, which I'm breaking down into different things that they do.

Edit: Still working on and off. Couple more commands. Can't test the sound ones until I get home though, so not 100% sure on them.

Clear Sound Effect?
Code: Select all
CLR.W     $C0BE


Backup Sound?
Code: Select all
MOVE.W    $C0BE,-$0006(A6)


Restore Sound?
Code: Select all
MOVE.W    -$0006(A6),$C0BE


Wait for Sound Effect?
Code: Select all
JMP       $000002CC


Play Sound Effect?
Code: Select all
4E 40  TRAP #0


Clear Sound, Play Sound and Wait for Sound?
Code: Select all
MOVE.W    #$XXXX,D0
JSR       $000002E4


Set Message Argument to Dialog Number
Code: Select all
42 40  CLR.W     D0
10 02  MOVE.B    D2,D0
31 C0  MOVE.W    D0,$F844


Clear Message Box
Code: Select all
JSR       $00000328


Display 'Nothing is unusual.'
Code: Select all
BRA       $00018074

Re: SF1 Editor

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19 2012 11:24pm
by Wetwille
Is it possible to change where the weapon sprite is located on a battle sprite as well as the angle of the sprite? And mayby for the "add/ edit frame order" on the battle sprites, you could set up a sub menu that split into two categories (attack animation and magic animation). However, on the wizard sprites the location and angle of the weapon sprite changes based on whether you are attacking or casting a spell, and the centaur animations change based on the range of the weapon... Sorry if I just made things more difficult...