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SF1 Editor

Updated 7/4/18 (v3.4.5)

Discussion about the original classic Genesis/Mega Drive game. Posts about the GBA remake belong in the forum below.

Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Siel » Mon Oct 19 2009 4:27pm

I was messing around with the range editor but couldn't get the max range to go past 3 while testing in the game. Rubix has said it works and even showed a screenshot of it going past 3. I have the latest version, 9.4, and I've tried with a clean ROM and Doomblade's Challenge Mode.

The "ring" AoE doesn't seem to be showing up properly. When selecting a target, it appears as a "3 square line" AoE. The attack hits the correct targets though.

A range of "block" has a range of 1 less than what is chosen in the editor. (A block with a range of 1 in the editor only targets the user.) This might be intentional but isn't very consistent.

How do stat growths truly work? I've noticed (I only checked about 4 characters) a "late" curve in DEF or AGI approximatively spreads 15% of the gains for the first 9-10 levels, 25% of the gains for the next 4-5 levels, and a huge 60% for the last 6 levels. Promoted Tao's "early-late" curve in AGI somehow lets her gains 50% of her AGI on her first 3 level ups. She then gains 20% of it from the next 2 levels and another 20% from the next 4 levels. The last 10% is then spread throughout 10 levels. That sounds more like a very early growth than an "early-late" one.

I've also noticed that an "early" curve in ATK/HP/MP resembles an "early-late" curve for DEF/AGI. Tao and Lowe both have an "early" curve for MP, but if you'll remember, their MP usually quickly reaches 20 and then stagnates a bit in the 20-30 range for a few levels, before Tao's quickly jumps to 40.

There's some weird column of numbers in the character editor. It seems to display the same things as the "labeled" numbers on the right, but with some extra 0s. The numbers don't seem to be editable either.

Where might the dialogue editor be? I've seen it mentioned in the previous topic but I can only find the font editor.
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Flygon » Mon Oct 19 2009 9:56pm

Siel @ Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:27 am) wrote: There's some weird column of numbers in the character editor. It seems to display the same things as the "labeled" numbers on the right, but with some extra 0s. The numbers don't seem to be editable either.

Where might the dialogue editor be? I've seen it mentioned in the previous topic but I can only find the font editor.

The column is the raw numbers, mainly for what I assume, is debugging purposes, don't worry about them unless something just won't work and you can't figure out what (Not all the numbers in the column are documented).

The dialogue editor is not finished, simple as that. All we can do is wait.
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Siel » Mon Oct 19 2009 10:34pm

Flygon @ Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:56 pm) wrote:The dialogue editor is not finished, simple as that. All we can do is wait.


If I were to try to edit the dialogue myself, how would I proceed? Using a hex editor, I was able to easily find the strings(?) for names of characters/monsters/items/classes/spells, but it does not seem like I'll find the dialogue like that.
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Flygon » Tue Oct 20 2009 6:29am

The dialogue is compressed with a very complex method... which, ironically is the exact same as Shining Force II's, and thats already got editors.

We're all just too lazy to make editors for it. :(
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby katgirlfeli » Wed Oct 21 2009 5:36am

Questions:

Level cap (Promotion):
000229D1
NOTE: This changes the level of which the level advances to the cap.

000229D7
NOTE: This is the level cap.

00022C45
NOTE: This is the level level-up messages stop appearing.

You want all three addresses to be the same.

The three values you're written here aren't very clear. Please elaborate.
Also, remember, i'm looking for two values... well let's make it three :D

1) Level Requirement for Promotion (Default in game is 10, but i'd like that changed to 20 like in your hack :D (i assume this is your first value)

2) Max Level (dunno if its different pre promotion vs post promotion, or if that third value you listed has anything to do with it).

3) The effective level of a promoted character (A level 1 promoted character is effectively level 11. The problem i have with this is when your effective level pre-promotion is 20, and you promote, your effective level is reduced to 11, creating this 9 level gap of power leveling which I DO NOT WANT :D) This value has to exist somewhere and this is probably the most important one, else i'd have to keep promotion at 10 and force it there, which i'd rather raise to 20 :3c
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Flygon » Wed Oct 21 2009 6:14am

1) 01743E is the promoted level requirement, I posted this before.

2) Thats what the triplet values are for, unlike Shining Force II, they spread it across three different values, must have been easier to program or something. However, I've only found this for promoted characters, not unpromoted, sorry.

3) I have no idea where that is, sorry, I also want it too. :blush:
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby rubixcuber » Thu Oct 29 2009 9:36pm

Huh, I stopped getting reply notices apparently. Flygon, you know for a fact it's done using the exact same method as 2?

If I had documentation for how it works in 2 or the code for it from 2 I could definitely get the dialog editor done. Creating the compression routine was just a headache and I kept putting it off, but maybe if I had something more to work with.

And yeah Siel, there's no way you can edit the dialog in a hex editor. I did pretty much finish the decompression at one point, and have a program that lets you view all the text from the game if you want that. I never got around to building the recompression part of it though, so you can't actually edit or save anything.

The effective promoted level should be easy enough to do. I'll have to check my notes, but I think I may have looked into that at one point. I should be able to get an answer fairly quickly if I actually start working on this stuff again.

Edit: To respond to some more stuff from Siel's post.

The max range value indicates the maximum number of squares the game will process. If you set max range to 5, nothing will appear different. But then if you give an attack a range of 5 it will work instead of being truncated to 3. Let me know if you have any issues past that.

I'm aware of the ring issue. I was planning on fixing that when I got back to working on stuff, but from what I could see no one had even tried using the mod so I just left it on my to do list.

The block range was an implementation thing. All of the ranges are done using the same routine and make use of several of the existing game functions. It is actually consistant with the game mechanics. To get a block of what you are calling 1, the corners are actually 2 spaces away. Without doing a lot of extra modifications I can only work with squares that are within the numerical range, so to get that block the range needs to be at least 2. So yes, the blocks will seem kind of 1 square smaller than you might expect.

Stat curves... to be honest I don't recall and don't see any specific numbers in my notes. Someone else might have a better idea on that.

The column of uneditable numbers in some editors is the raw data. Especially if there is data which I'm not sure what that is, I leave that in so people can look at the data and maybe notice things.
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Siel » Thu Oct 29 2009 11:29pm

rubixcuber @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:36 pm) wrote:The max range value indicates the maximum number of squares the game will process. If you set max range to 5, nothing will appear different. But then if you give an attack a range of 5 it will work instead of being truncated to 3. Let me know if you have any issues past that.

Huh, I just noticed that option is there. I guess my eyes were only drawn to the check boxes and didn't bother looking at what was between them?

What's the 'routine' thing in the range editor? It seems like the editor shows it as "How-many-to-skip (Where-it'll-be-at)," with ranges 0-31 all leading? to 0x22929, while 32-63 all skip? by 0x100. 31 is Slow1's range and 32 is Boost1's range, which are pretty similar spells, so it doesn't seem to have a connection with that.

Has anyone figured out what each check box of an enemy's AI does? It seems like if there's a behavior with only the 2nd box checked, a behavior with only the 3rd box checked, and a behavior with only the 4th box checked, and if they all have action 0, they'll go in the designated places in that order.

Similarly, what do the Regen/?/?/?/?/?/Special Attack/? boxes do? I've noticed every mage/healer have the 3rd and 4th boxes checked. Oddly, the gargoyle, the belial, and the evil puppet only have the 3rd box checked. There's the durahan(#68) who also has the 3rd and 4th boxes checked, but doesn't seem to appear in any battle, while the other durahans (#4 & #33) don't have those boxes checked. The dark elf has the 3rd box checked, but no other arrow-user does (the dark elf also has action type 130 instead of 255?).
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Doomblade66 » Fri Oct 30 2009 4:11am

Action type 130 means "Can use Items in inventory" - but it's risky since it will only work okay if you give them a Healing Item. If you give them a Shield Ring, like certain enemies have at points in my Challenge Mod....and also give them Action Type 130, they will "act stupid" and "USE" the Shield Ring every single turn, even when they are already boosted by its effect.

It works best, then, with 1-use items like Healing Herbs or Healing Seeds.

Even then, they rarely use it intelligently and often act dumb, like NOT healing their friends who have lost 19-HP, and instead healing themselves for 2-HP damage...or, even better, just walking towards your guys, and not doing ANY kind of intelligent healing ! :damnit:

I found Action Type 255 (basic attacking type) the best one - other than the special ones given to various monsters like Armed Skeletons, Dragons, etc - 129 is the one Kane uses that allows monsters to "use" the Sword of Darkness and other weaponish-items, as well as attack (seems like 70% attack, 30% use weapon).
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Lobo » Mon Nov 02 2009 3:52pm

Good afternoon, guys!

I just started to edit and test the rom and have had some problems I haven't seen listed here.

1) In the itens menu, I tried to change the equipable classes for some weapons, like letting SKNT Guntz attack with a sword. (I never knew why he does that swinging movement with a spear by the way. :) )
The problem is, though I can equip it and have the proper effect of the sword in the game, on the attack screen Guntz does not wield the weapon and makes no attack movement.
It's like showing the message "Guntz attacks", and then the enemy shines and the damage message appears, with unarmed Guntz standing still all the time.
The same thing happens when I did equip promoted Balbaroy with a spear.

2) Even if I change stat numbers and curves for Jogurt, I can't make him get past from level 1 to level 2. There's some kind of "level lock" in the game that does not allow him to earn levels. When he gets to 100 exp points a message appears: "...It appears that Jogurt's level has increased to 1" or something like that.
Can you locate it in the rom so that we can unlock it on the editor?

I'll bring more issues here as soon as I notice them.

Great great work you've been doing, by the way!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby katgirlfeli » Mon Nov 02 2009 8:16pm

Another thing that i was wondering.. Is it possible to remove ?? when it comes to stats? I thought of possibly making things go over 100, though having the game hide the stats is kinda annoying. If it can't be removed, then perhaps the value can be found where it shows ?? whenever a stat is over a different value than 99.

Though I don't know what kind of effect that would have for HP/MP. Dunno if the game would continue to expand the HP/MP bars until they go off screen or if that's a separate value
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby rubixcuber » Mon Nov 02 2009 8:33pm

Flygon:

Care to elaborate on the bugs in the palette editor? I haven't had any issues with it as long as I don't edit a palette the enemy doesn't actually have as I was saying before.

Edit: Nevermind I see it. There's nothing wrong with the palette editing, but if you do a save in the palette editor even without changing anything some enemies get screwed up due to the extra palette data. I'll try to get that fixed later.

Lobo:

1) Unfortunately, the characters are only set up to animate with the type of weapon they normally equip. Without making some changes to the system, equipping other weapon types will not work visually.

2) Jogurt is a special case. I remember someone asking about this before. It's probably not a difficult fix, I might look into it if I get back to working on this again.

katgirlfeli:

I had a discussion about this with a couple people in the past. It's on my list of things to do, but it's a fair amount of work for something largely cosmetic, so it hasn't been very high on the list.

I'm pretty sure the bars are completely separate.

Off the top of my head I can't think of anywhere other than the character status screen where the stats are displayed. Is that really the only place or am I forgetting some? If that's the only screen it probably shouldn't be that hard to do.

Well, there's the HP and MP numbers next to the bars, but I'm not sure what to do with those.

Edit:

Here's a quick shot of a modified stat screen (in game). Note that this is just layout, it's not actually displaying three digits of stats yet, the 9's and 1's are hard coded at the moment.

Image
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Flygon » Tue Nov 03 2009 12:22am

Seeing the 999 AGI gave me a surprise at first, I was thinking 'Did the man just invent a stat system of two bytes into Shining Force?!'...

Then I read the description. :)
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby rubixcuber » Wed Nov 18 2009 5:18pm

Well, haven't spent much time on anything but went ahead and fixed the palette editor. You should now be able to edit palettes without worrying about crashing things.

Edit: Also fixed the issue with the ring area. Let me know if I broke anything in the process...

Edit2: Ok, I finished the modifications to make it do three digits instead of ?? for stats, just have to get it integrated into the editor.
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby tggrng123 » Thu Nov 19 2009 6:16am

Thank you! Finally I was able to edit that retarded palette (the stupid pink is not a correct lighter shade for deep red... and the light blue was actually a violet...) It works fine now =) Thank you!
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Siel » Thu Nov 19 2009 6:53am

So... I was messing with the effect editor.

WARNING: SPOILER!


I've also roughly discovered how much experience is gained a while ago, but haven't found an opportunity to post it.

WARNING: SPOILER!


Also, what is labeled as "Use Animation" in the item editor is actually the range of the item when it is used.
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby rubixcuber » Thu Nov 19 2009 8:17am

Alright, the modification for three digit stat display is done.

It's a new check box in the mechanics (wrench) section.

Let me know if you find any issues.

Also note that while attack, defense, etc have been altered to display 3 digits, they are still capped at 99. Removing the cap will be a different mod.

And finally note that I left mp alone because of what they did with the 100 mp being infinite. I figured it made sense just to leave the ?? for that.
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Siel » Thu Nov 19 2009 8:23am

rubixcuber @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:17 am) wrote:Also note that while attack, defense, etc have been altered to display 3 digits, they are still capped at 99. Removing the cap will be a different mod.

And finally note that I left mp alone because of what they did with the 100 mp being infinite. I figured it made sense just to leave the ?? for that.


Does this mean it's only effectively useful for HP for now?
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby rubixcuber » Thu Nov 19 2009 8:24am

Yeah, pretty much, unless you remove the caps yourself.

I should have time to do a 255 stat max tomorrow.
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Re: SF1 Editor

Postby Siel » Thu Nov 19 2009 8:37am

Would it be possible to eventually be able to edit how terrain affects movements (the terrain effect too, I suppose) and how EXP is gained? IIRC, default movement costs are only integers, like 1, 2, and 3. I'd like it to be possible to change it to numbers like 1.5 and 2.5. Units with only 5 move would be able to move 3 tiles in the desert and units with 6 move would be able to move 4 tiles in the desert, which is still more than 3.

Currently, EXP is proportional to how much damage an unit deals, making weaker units unable to keep up, unless one goes out of their way to allow that unit to deal killing blows. I'd like it to be something like (Kill EXP) * x + (DMG)/(HP) * (Kill EXP) * y. Thus, even if an unit theoretically deals 0 damage, they'd still gain a minimum of (Kill EXP) * x. Essentially, I suppose this would make it a bit more like the EXP in Fire Emblem, but still with EXP awarded for dealing more damage.
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