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Playable Kane

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Discussion about the original classic Genesis/Mega Drive game. Posts about the GBA remake belong in the forum below.

Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Sun Jan 07 2018 6:01am

Would the game treat them as being promoted at level 10 though? Pre-Promotes generally suck. At least in Shining Force 2 they did. Because in Shining Force 2 the game always assumes someone is promoted at level 20. (the minimum level you can promote a character in that game. Which is why they end up much stronger if you wait till level 40.) For example, a spell learned at level 37 could be gained at level 37 before promotion, or level 17 after promotion if promoted before level 37.

As for another Robot hmmm I dunno. That reminds me though. I think having a playable Chaos would be really cool.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Tyadran » Sun Jan 07 2018 6:12am

I'd be redoing their stats by hand as if they were a single-class unit like Musashi or Hanzou. That's the only way I can force them to start promoted in SF1. I'll probably assume they were promoted at 20, and any additional levels I give them would follow their general stat curves.

Playable Chaos would be neat, but it would make either Adam or Chaos pointless, since they would be two same-class characters given at the same time. You'd likely just pick the better-statted one and drop the other immediately.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Sun Jan 07 2018 2:28pm

True. Eliott replacing Vankar would be awesome. And Kokichi seems like another good replacement canidate in my opinion. And this might sound crazy but I find Amon and Balbaroy to be pretty useless. They're just so weak...
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Tyadran » Sun Jan 07 2018 4:03pm

I'm not a fan of Amon/Balbaroy either, but some people seem to like them so I'm not sure. Kokichi definitely doesn't seem to be anyone's favorite though.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Sun Jan 07 2018 9:44pm

Yeah should probably leave them alone since they contribute to the game's story and have fans. But Vankar is definitely a great choice to remove and replace. Nobody likes him. And neither do I.

My suggestions for Elliott would be to give him a new fighting class of some kind. One of his own. As well as having him keep his health regeneration ability when he joins. Would help make him unique. But from what I understand Musashi and Hanzou are popular characters and a lot of people like them. Myself included.

Anyway I'm ready to help however else I can. :) I'm honored and happy to have helped make this mod possible! :) Anytime you need help just let me know my good man! :) It's my pleasure! :)
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Tyadran » Mon Jan 08 2018 3:43am

Alright, so the changes I have for certain at the moment are
  • Vankar -> (?)
  • Kokichi -> Elliot (GNRL/CMDR)::(General/Commander)

I'm not certain about anyone else yet.

Other characters I'm still considering adding are
  • Varios (would likely replace Mae, since it would doesn't make sense for her to join the Force)
  • Balbazak (GNRL/WRLD)::(General/Warlord)
  • Boken (ADVT)::(Adventurer)
  • Nova (ADVS/TACT)
  • Otrant (MAGE/WIZD)
  • Narsha (SHMN/GURU)::(Shaman/Guru) (from Resurrection of the Dark Dragon)
  • A new RBT to join earlier

If Nova or Otrant is added, I'm likely to replace Alef. She's not particularly story-important and joins pretty late. The same applies to Torasu, so he's on the list of other candidates to consider replacing.
I've never been particularly fond of Hanzou (he always felt pretty weak to receive that late, and neither Desoul or the Doom Blade really makes up for that to me) but it's whatever I guess.
I'd really like to add Narsha (the addition of her character was one of the highlights of RotDD for me) and she'd likely be built similarly to that game's version of her. SHMN > GURU with an arsenal of Boost, Aura, and Quick, as well as maybe an extra spell.

I'll take opinions on these since I'm not sure who's interesting and who's most liable to replace.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Mon Jan 08 2018 4:20am

I love it! Would Otrant have Alef's spells? If so I'm totally in favor of this. Otherwise it would suck to lose your only Bolt Level 4 user. Plus Alef was always my favorite Mage/Wizard. Narsha is an excellent idea. I would love for her to replace Torasu. I literally never used Torasu in RotDD because of Narsha lol. I don't know how it doesn't make sense for Mae to join but I've always wondered what it would be like to have Varios and I never keep Mae through the entire game so I'm in favor of this idea. Kokichi is not that great so he's a good choice to replace. I've wanted playable Eliott for awhile too. The rest are also great ideas. I'm not sure how I feel about a new Robot. I really like Adam.

Sorry for taking up so much thread space. I just felt the need to discuss this here. Plus I want to be ready to upload something else if I need to.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Tyadran » Mon Jan 08 2018 4:35am

No, that's totally fine. I say that it "wouldn't make sense to have Mae" simply because Varios's death was a factor in her joining the Force in the first place. Plus I'd rather not add extra Knights on top of the ones we already have more than I have to, because there are a lot:
Ken stays because he's part of the starting Force
Pelle stays because he's one of the best knights and frequently used
Earnest stays due to story
Arthur stays because he's unique
Mae either remains for story or is replaced by Varios

Vankar already got replaced and that still leaves 5 knights, which is a lot. Plus I don't see Mae used often so she'd be next on my list to replace.

Any magic-users I remove would have their spells moved to other characters, so yes, Otrant would end up being your new Bolt user. In that case I'll probably finalize Varios, Boken, Elliot, Otrant, and Narsha, with the loss of Vankar, Kokighi, Alef, and Torasu.

For the time being I'll be skipping Balbazak and Nova (as well as the extra RBT) for various reasons, then.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Mon Jan 08 2018 4:50am

Tyadran wrote:No, that's totally fine. I say that it "wouldn't make sense to have Mae" simply because Varios's death was a factor in her joining the Force in the first place. Plus I'd rather not add extra Knights on top of the ones we already have more than I have to, because there are a lot:
Ken stays because he's part of the starting Force
Pelle stays because he's one of the best knights and frequently used
Earnest stays due to story
Arthur stays because he's unique
Mae either remains for story or is replaced by Varios

I wholeheartedly agree. Ken should stay for this reason yes. Pelle is also one of my favorite knights. He's a great one. I always use him throughout every playthrough I do. Earnest is also good for story. Arthur is actually the very best knight in the game. He starts out the worst but ends up being the best. His growths and stats end up great. Vankar is weak and not worth using. And the game already has too many centaurs as it is. Having Varios in place of Mae sounds interesting. I love the idea of Varios being playable.
Tyadran wrote:Any magic-users I remove would have their spells moved to other characters, so yes, Otrant would end up being your new Bolt user. In that case I'll probably finalize Varios, Boken, Elliot, Otrant, and Narsha, with the loss of Vankar, Kokighi, Alef, and Torasu.

Perfect!
Tyadran wrote:For the time being I'll be skipping Balbazak and Nova (as well as the extra RBT) for various reasons, then.

Sounds good to me. :)
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Tyadran » Mon Jan 08 2018 4:53am

Oh, I know all about Arthur ;)
Highest stat total in the game; he's not just the best knight, he's one of the best characters in the entire Force.

I have to use him every playthrough, and in the case of RotDD he was my front line and had a tendency to solo entire battles if I didn't make him wait for everyone else. Especially with the addition of Magic Resistance in that game, he's insane.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Mon Jan 08 2018 5:04am

He is indeed. I always give him the Valkyrie Spear too to make him even more awesome. He's one of my main attackers in every playthrough I do and I always keep him till the end.

My ultimate end game fighting team is:

Max, Pelle, Arthur, Tao, Anri, Domingo, Alef, Torasu, Bleu, Adam, Musashi, Hanzou.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Tyadran » Mon Jan 08 2018 5:06am

I haven't run through the full game in a while, but I generally recall my team falling somewhere like:
Max, Ken, Earnest, Arthur, Luke, Guntz, Anri, Tao, Domingo, Lyle, Zylo, Musashi
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Mon Jan 08 2018 5:16am

Neat. I never heard of anyone using Ken the full game before. I don't because there are superior centaurs you get eventually. I sometimes use Earnest too. His growths seem to be random for some reason. Sometimes he turns out just as good as or better than Pelle and sometimes he's just underneath him. I use Gort in place of Luke even though he's not quite as strong because I like him better as a character. I do like Guntz but I don't keep him through a full playthrough of the game. He has great defense to make up for his bad HP but I find that he's too vulnerable to double flame breaths from Chimeras. Lyle is a good character but I just find that I can do better with others and can live without him. Zylo is a great fighter. Definitely worth keeping. But I just prefer other characters.
Last edited by Runesamurai on Mon Jan 08 2018 5:19am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Tyadran » Mon Jan 08 2018 5:19am

Lyle I use just because I like having long-range attackers and he's efficient for picking off healers. I also use him in the Darksol fight since I tend to run straight up the middle and his extra range makes it easier to hit the Torch Eyes extra times.

While we're on the topic of characters we use, actually, I'd be interested to know any thoughts you have on rebalancing less-useful characters to give them more potential for full playthroughs (characters like Lyle/Diane/Ken/birds/etc.)
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Mon Jan 08 2018 5:30am

Tyadran wrote:Lyle I use just because I like having long-range attackers and he's efficient for picking off healers. I also use him in the Darksol fight since I tend to run straight up the middle and his extra range makes it easier to hit the Torch Eyes extra times.

I used to use Lyle for getting rid of the Torch Eyes too. But then I found Bleu was much better for it. Some people don't realize this but Bleu is one of the most broken characters in the entire game. He's downright OP. But that's why I love him.
Tyadran wrote:While we're on the topic of characters we use, actually, I'd be interested to know any thoughts you have on rebalancing less-useful characters to give them more potential for full playthroughs (characters like Lyle/Diane/Ken/birds/etc.)

Sounds interesting. But it might make it harder to decide who I do and don't want to replace.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Tyadran » Mon Jan 08 2018 5:33am

I didn't use Bleu when I used to play LoGI, and now it's tainted by my RotDD playthrough where at max level he was one of the least useful members of my entire Force.

Just worry about balancing the characters who aren't being replaced, haha. I'm pretty much set on the ones already discussed.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Mon Jan 08 2018 5:35am

Lol yeah. Bleu got nerfed so bad in RotDD. And so did Zylo. But I love what they did with Musashi and Hanzou.

My bad. I meant which characters I want to replace with other members I get. Ones that I don't keep for an entire playthrough.

Bleu is actually a lot better in LoGI than he is in RotDD. They nerfed him really hard in the latter game.
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby LordOddEye » Tue Feb 13 2018 1:57pm

Fantastic! I actually love this so much!

Regards,

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https://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40095
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https://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40095
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Re: Playable Kane

Postby Runesamurai » Mon Mar 05 2018 12:26pm

Want a tip? If you wanna see what Kane can really do turn on triple digit stats in the editor. ;) I once got my Kane up to like 120 in ATK power. (With The Dawn Breaker of course) But he was really high leveled so go figure. I got him to level 99 because I'm that insane. He's a great help in the later battles. Especially after you get The Dawn Breaker.
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