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Playable Kane?

Curious if this has been done

Discussion about the original classic Genesis/Mega Drive game. Posts about the GBA remake belong in the forum below.

Playable Kane?

Postby Tyadran » Sat Nov 18 2017 1:24am

I haven't been around SFC in ages but came back because I'm somewhat interested in modding SF1 again.

I've recently been curious about trying to work on a mod I was trying a while back, to cause Kane to join the Shining Force after the battle with him, and I wanted to make sure this hadn't been done before before I worked on it. It's a small change, but one of the things that often annoyed me in SF1

If it hasn't been done before, what kinds of stats/attributes would you like to see in a playable Kane?
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby monkbarron » Sat Nov 18 2017 8:36pm

Well, IDK if it HAS been done for sure, but I think it was. As for you doing it, good luck. As for attributes, I'd say he needs to join with his stats nerfed (Like Lemon in SF;2), but he regains them over time, and he joins with the Sword of Darkness (No longer curses you) equipped.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Tyadran » Sat Nov 18 2017 8:44pm

monkbarron wrote:Well, IDK if it HAS been done for sure, but I think it was. As for you doing it, good luck. As for attributes, I'd say he needs to join with his stats nerfed (Like Lemon in SF;2), but he regains them over time, and he joins with the Sword of Darkness (No longer curses you) equipped.


It's been a while since I played through the game normally, but isn't the Sword of Darkness already in your possession at the point he would normally die? I could be wrong.

I also don't want to change how the SoD works in any case, since I only want to change the fact that he joins. All of it is done atm except for some quirks I have to work through with the editor (the issues I already posted in the editor thread).
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Lobo » Sun Nov 19 2017 11:15pm

Can't remember seeing it yet, though I haven't played all the mods.

I've made a mod with Kane joining myself though, but my current plan is to wait for Steve to lend some great attack animation sequence before releasing the mod. :excited:

In my mod he doesn't join in Dragonia, but only after the battle at the Ancient Tower. His initial stats (except for HP) would be about the same they were when an enemy, and would grow somewhat close to Max's at the end.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Tyadran » Sun Nov 19 2017 11:35pm

Yeah, I have him joining after the battle at the Ancient Tower as well. I saw there were some sprites being worked on, but for now I'm just using an additional palette of the Hero sprites Max uses. Not the most glamorous but it works for the time being.

This is what his initial stats are at the moment:
Image

I've basically got him built as a higher HP/Attack, lower Defense/Agility Hero with some spellcasting ability (learning higher levels of Slow and Desoul later, as well as Bolt 1 and 2 more like later Heroes) due to him already being able to cast Desoul and attributing his teleportation abilities to something like Egress.

Going to have to mess with the mod a bit more before I can release it due to some issues I'm having using Jogurt's character slot, but it shouldn't be anything too hard to fix.

EDIT: Technically he's supposed to join at Lv 9, so this would be after one level up. He picks up Slow at Lv 10.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby monkbarron » Mon Nov 20 2017 4:34am

Good work so far --- You don't get the Sword of Darkness until AFTER Kane would (SPOILERS; Normally Die) plus, it needs the Chaos Breaker anyway. Something you COULD do though is make a hero Sword for Kane, called 'Demon's Bane' I could make some SICK sprites for it too.

EDIT; I saw your problem. Have you expanded your ROM to 6MB yet? when you do that, just expand the characters list and you can put him in a new slot. (You'll have to change what sprites every character has back to their normal ones, which is really easy) and that children, is why we don't even touch jogurt.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Tyadran » Mon Nov 20 2017 4:51am

monkbarron wrote:Good work so far --- You don't get the Sword of Darkness until AFTER Kane would (SPOILERS; Normally Die) plus, it needs the Chaos Breaker anyway. Something you COULD do though is make a hero Sword for Kane, called 'Demon's Bane' I could make some SICK sprites for it too.

EDIT; I saw your problem. Have you expanded your ROM to 6MB yet? when you do that, just expand the characters list and you can put him in a new slot. (You'll have to change what sprites every character has back to their normal ones, which is really easy) and that children, is why we don't even touch jogurt.


Ah, thanks for the Sword of Darkness info. Like I said it's been ages since I did a full playthrough. Can you remind me where you get it? If not I can track it down myself. But adding a new sword for him is a good idea too. Hmm.

I think I'll have to use the character extend. I was hoping to avoid it so that you could patch this onto your game and use any savestate where you hadn't already recruited Jogurt, but it looks like that isn't an option at the moment. I hadn't touched the editor since before that was an option so I didn't even know it was an option originally.

I might look into doing the sprites myself. How hard is it to add extra weapon sprites? Since it wasn't an option back when I was working on stuff before. :blush:
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Chaoswizard98 » Mon Nov 20 2017 11:22pm

You get the sword when you return to prompt. The king gives it to you. "Kane left this in my possetion before he left for the tower."
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Tyadran » Tue Nov 21 2017 4:04am

Alright, Kane is almost finished. Having some sprite problems, but once that's out of the way he should be good to go.

Image
(Cheated him into the start of the game just to show his stats)

Changes from the original:
  • Kane now has a new sprite used in Prompt and at the Ancient Tower
  • Kane now joins the Force at the Ancient Tower
  • Kane joins the Force carrying the Sword of Darkness, which is no longer given to you at Prompt
  • Dialogue has been changed to reflect these changes
  • A new weapon unique to Kane has been added (can be acquired during the Colossus fight)
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Lobo » Tue Nov 21 2017 11:21am

Tyadran wrote:I think I'll have to use the character extend. I was hoping to avoid it so that you could patch this onto your game and use any savestate where you hadn't already recruited Jogurt, but it looks like that isn't an option at the moment. I hadn't touched the editor since before that was an option so I didn't even know it was an option originally.


The character extend has it's own issues though.
For example, players can't save the game except by savestates and you can't swap sprites on the map editor (or the game will freeze when talking to the new sprite).

On the other hand, I think this feature to 'use any savestate where you hadn't already recruited Jogurt' would not be an option, as the game seems to load name and initial stats/level of every character from the start.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Tyadran » Tue Nov 21 2017 11:27am

Yeah, there's problems both ways. For now I'm using extended characters in hopes of the bugs getting ironed out later. Or if Jogurt gets fixed I'll revert back to him.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby monkbarron » Tue Nov 21 2017 3:11pm

Adding Extra Weapons is kind of tricky. If you want me to, I could give you a full, flushed out tutorial, or I could add it in myself. Mind you, my hack is coming along smoothly
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Tyadran » Wed Nov 22 2017 1:55am

monkbarron wrote:Adding Extra Weapons is kind of tricky. If you want me to, I could give you a full, flushed out tutorial, or I could add it in myself. Mind you, my hack is coming along smoothly


Just an overview of it should be fine. Right now I'm using a recolored version of the Sword of Darkness (since the Chaos Breaker uses the same sprite as the Sword of Light) but I'd be open to adding something new.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby monkbarron » Wed Nov 22 2017 5:51pm

Okay, let me make some sprites and I'll show them to ya here soon.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby projectego » Thu Nov 30 2017 1:59pm

Man, you're making some great progress so far. Kane is the reason I got into Shining Force modding and the reason I've been spending an unhealthy amount of time developing a website to share resources.

Lobo wrote:The character extend has it's own issues though.
For example, players can't save the game except by savestates and you can't swap sprites on the map editor (or the game will freeze when talking to the new sprite).

On the other hand, I think this feature to 'use any savestate where you hadn't already recruited Jogurt' would not be an option, as the game seems to load name and initial stats/level of every character from the start.


I wasn't aware of either issue. I thought RC had fixed the priest-save issue? The map editor sprite issue sounds like something I may have encountered before... sounds oddly familiar. Are you saying that swapping an NPC sprite with another sprite will cause the crash or is there more to this?
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Tyadran » Thu Nov 30 2017 2:17pm

I mean it's not a crazy amount of progress compared to my old mod, this one is pretty simple. The only thing left for me to deal with is the graphics issues, really.
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Re: Playable Kane?

Postby Lobo » Fri Dec 01 2017 3:39pm

projectego wrote:
Lobo wrote:The character extend has it's own issues though.
For example, players can't save the game except by savestates and you can't swap sprites on the map editor (or the game will freeze when talking to the new sprite).

On the other hand, I think this feature to 'use any savestate where you hadn't already recruited Jogurt' would not be an option, as the game seems to load name and initial stats/level of every character from the start.


I wasn't aware of either issue. I thought RC had fixed the priest-save issue? The map editor sprite issue sounds like something I may have encountered before... sounds oddly familiar. Are you saying that swapping an NPC sprite with another sprite will cause the crash or is there more to this?


As I recall, it's just like that.
If you're using expanded characters and change a sprite in Map Editor, that sprite will crash the game whenever you talk to it.

Maybe we should investigate further, by searching the editor thread or testing ingame.
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