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Well... Oops!

Total Scenario 2 botch

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Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Mar 04 2017 7:05am

So, here I am, playing Scenario 2 for the first time, and I reach Balsamo. Look around, do stuff, and so on. Then I find Rock, and Waltz. After finding nothing to help them in Balsamo, I figure, "Okay. There was another town on the map, so I probably need to find medicine there." So I continue on, working my way towards Dusty to hopefully find some medicine for Waltz so the two of them can join me. After heading there however, the game just keeps forcing me farther and farther away from them, to the point where it drove me to look up when they join. Because surely the very first two new party members, who also happen to be featured in the instruction manual, and while you only have a force size of four, wouldn't be secret characters that are so easy to miss. Right?

:...:

:...:

:damnit:

I may need a spare Medical Herb or two to take on Varlant.

Edit: On the upside, my friendship statuses are looking great. With such a small party, by the end of Chapter 1 I already have three Trusted pairings. Not to mention keeping them bundled together for maximum bonuses is a breeze.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby Cullsoft » Sat Mar 04 2017 12:04pm

Ooh, nasty. I'm guessing you don't have a backup save from Balsamo or Saraband to pick them up and replay the last battle or few? However, if you're in need of help for the next battle...

WARNING: SPOILER!


If it's any consolation, fist time I played Sc1 I completely missed that Hayward as a recruitable character, so spent half the game archerless until Justin saved the day (how often can anyone say that about him? :lol:).
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby MCRT » Sat Mar 04 2017 1:24pm

Ouch, but such things could happen... actually all you need was either an antidot or a fairy powder to cure her paralysis. But yeah, with such a small force size gaining high friendship levels is really easy. I can already imagine how Uryudo tears through the enemy lines with the help of Medion's friendship bonus.

Cullsoft wrote:If it's any consolation, fist time I played Sc1 I completely missed that Hayward as a recruitable character, so spent half the game archerless until Justin saved the day (how often can anyone say that about him? :lol:).


That could not said often, but at least you could enjoy a tasty quick chicken in exchange :)
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Mar 04 2017 6:32pm

Cullsoft wrote:Ooh, nasty. I'm guessing you don't have a backup save from Balsamo or Saraband to pick them up and replay the last battle or few? However, if you're in need of help for the next battle...

WARNING: SPOILER!


If it's any consolation, fist time I played Sc1 I completely missed that Hayward as a recruitable character, so spent half the game archerless until Justin saved the day (how often can anyone say that about him? :lol:).

WARNING: SPOILER!


The saddest part is that I wouldn't have missed Rock and Waltz if Dusty hadn't been visible on the map. In fact, after not finding medicine there, I thought, "So do I just need to go use one of my own Antidotes or Fairy Powders on her?" but by then it was too late because as much of a step forward for the series Shining Force 3 is, it's weirdly linear. If that town hadn't been there to tease me into thinking otherwise, I would've spent more time trying to figure out what to do in Balsamo, and eventually would have tried that.

As for a backup save, I did have one, but if I didn't want to miss things, I would've looked up how to recruit the characters in the first place. The backup save is in place not to go back if I screw up. It's as a safety in case the system memory's battery suddenly dies. That, and since I'm using a method that utilizes the Action Replay Plus to play the games anyway, it's a simple matter of resetting, then copying the save file to that when I'm finished.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby MXC » Sat Mar 04 2017 6:39pm

Tough break as both are good characters.

But on the upside, you'll soon have the entire first page of this forum filled with your topics :lol:
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Mar 04 2017 7:19pm

MXC wrote:Tough break as both are good characters.

But on the upside, you'll soon have the entire first page of this forum filled with your topics :lol:

The dream is slowly becoming a reality. :lol:

Getting by with so few characters though for so long has been interesting, at least. Makes it feel like a whole different game.

Edit: The friendship bonuses are definitely showing, as I'm only on Chapter 2, and already have a Soulmate. When I played through Scenario 1, that didn't happen until about Chapter 5. Weirdly enough through, my one Soulmate pairing in that game was Synbios/Masqurin, and the one I have currently in Sc. 2 is Medion/Syntesis.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby MCRT » Mon Mar 06 2017 7:53pm

DomingoRules! wrote:The dream is slowly becoming a reality. :lol:

Getting by with so few characters though for so long has been interesting, at least. Makes it feel like a whole different game.

Edit: The friendship bonuses are definitely showing, as I'm only on Chapter 2, and already have a Soulmate. When I played through Scenario 1, that didn't happen until about Chapter 5. Weirdly enough through, my one Soulmate pairing in that game was Synbios/Masqurin, and the one I have currently in Sc. 2 is Medion/Syntesis.


And I gonna cat...hm... answer them all :lol:

Yeah, I was also planning a fewer characters run in the next take of the game. I read some interesting posts back then from someone (I guess it was Sinful Force), who intentional leaved out characters on a insane playthrough to maximise the experience gain (and discovered that when Hayward gets killed you can get an additional quick chicken!).

The first caster and the hero are always the first soulmates in my games too. I guess it is something about the AGL order and that this team can 2 hit KO most enemies.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Wed Mar 08 2017 12:06am

MCRT wrote:Yeah, I was also planning a fewer characters run in the next take of the game. I read some interesting posts back then from someone (I guess it was Sinful Force), who intentional leaved out characters on a insane playthrough to maximise the experience gain (and discovered that when Hayward gets killed you can get an additional quick chicken!).

I kind of feel like that actually begs the question of what's more efficacious. A larger party wielding greater versatility, and the capability of swarming the enemy forces? Or a smaller group that can constantly maximize EXP gains, weapon proficiencies, and friendship bonuses?
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby MCRT » Wed Mar 08 2017 4:51pm

DomingoRules! wrote:
MCRT wrote:Yeah, I was also planning a fewer characters run in the next take of the game. I read some interesting posts back then from someone (I guess it was Sinful Force), who intentional leaved out characters on a insane playthrough to maximise the experience gain (and discovered that when Hayward gets killed you can get an additional quick chicken!).

I kind of feel like that actually begs the question of what's more efficacious. A larger party wielding greater versatility, and the capability of swarming the enemy forces? Or a smaller group that can constantly maximize EXP gains, weapon proficiencies, and friendship bonuses?


I would guess in the long run, the former will become better. But if getting soulmates would be as reliable as it was in the Japanese Sc 1, the latter would be a notable alternative.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Sun Mar 12 2017 6:13pm

Having taken up until recruiting Garosh to finally have a full (non-guest) party, I've come to accept that for whatever reason, I just can't find secret characters in this game for crap. So I've decided to look at it on the bright side that the next time I play the game, I'll have plenty of brand new characters to look forward to.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby MCRT » Sun Mar 12 2017 7:10pm

DomingoRules! wrote:Having taken up until recruiting Garosh to finally have a full (non-guest) party, I've come to accept that for whatever reason, I just can't find secret characters in this game for crap. So I've decided to look at it on the bright side that the next time I play the game, I'll have plenty of brand new characters to look forward to.


So with Penko you have 12 members? Ok, who did you get in chapter 4 & 5?

But yeah, always look on the bright side of life :)
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Sun Mar 12 2017 8:22pm

With Penko I have 13 (I originally said Penko, but then edited it when I remembered that Garosh was actually my 12th member). My party consists of Medion, Syntesis, Campbell, Uryudo, Zero, Hazuki, David, Hedva, Robby, Arthur, Garosh, and Penko, with my only reserve being Hera.

And looking at how far I am, my party size, and how many of them are secret characters, it really brings to light that this game went way overboard with how many characters can be potentially missed. I have nothing against a game providing plenty of secret characters, but that shouldn't result in it being so potentially difficult to just have a full party.

WARNING: SPOILER!
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby MCRT » Mon Mar 13 2017 1:05pm

DomingoRules! wrote:With Penko I have 13 (I originally said Penko, but then edited it when I remembered that Garosh was actually my 12th member). My party consists of Medion, Syntesis, Campbell, Uryudo, Zero, Hazuki, David, Hedva, Robby, Arthur, Garosh, and Penko, with my only reserve being Hera.


I also putted Hera into reserve most times...
But the point that she is only source of the resist spell when you train no-one on Ankh's is reason for me to actually change that in future playthroughs :)

OK, then you really only missed 3 characters (including Rock & Waltz) so far.

DomingoRules! wrote:And looking at how far I am, my party size, and how many of them are secret characters, it really brings to light that this game went way overboard with how many characters can be potentially missed. I have nothing against a game providing plenty of secret characters, but that shouldn't result in it being so potentially difficult to just have a full party.


Yeah, I guess they did this to spice things up or something like that.
The one character you missed besides Rock/Waltz is available based upon your actions at the beginning of Sc 1.

You will be able to get 1 more (optional :damnit: ) character in the last chapter. In addition, this one is something special ;)
But having 2 full partys will still be no problem for the final battle *small spoiler* :confused: :excited: :thumbsup:

DomingoRules! wrote:
WARNING: SPOILER!


WARNING: SPOILER!
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Mon Mar 13 2017 5:28pm

Missing Rock and Waltz is still annoying because I feel like it was more the game's fault than my own. First by it tricking me into thinking the solution is elsewhere, thus distracting me from devising the real solution that I figured out immediately after realizing the town was a dead end, then locking me from backtracking for 10 seconds to go recruit them.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby Pappets » Wed Mar 15 2017 12:47pm

Before you enter Balsamo you gain a fairy powder somewhere. I think it's from an enemy commander when you finish him. How come you didn't figure how to save Waltz? Are you playing scenario 2 in japanese?

Are you still playing scenario 2? No matter where you are, i advise you to restart the game because in the penultimate battle you won't have enough characters in the reserves to make a 2nd battalion to win that battle. The 1st time i played sce2 was with the original japanese dialogs and so i didn't get Waltz and Rock. I also missed Bernard and, if i'm not mistaken, Hedoba also. I think i only had 2 characters in the reserves, being one of them David, and i couldn't win that penultimate battle. I had to replay the game.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Wed Mar 15 2017 6:24pm

I didn't figure it out because of the other town I saw in the distance. I assumed the answer was there, so I headed that way first, then the game locked me from returning. If that town hadn't been visible from the previous battle, I would've figured it out easily, seeing as how that solution immediately came to mind when I didn't find anything in said town. I also assumed that they weren't meant to be secret characters since they're right there in the instruction manual, so at some point the game would make me return to recruit them.

I managed fine with David, Hera, and my monsters (two wyverns, one of those red skeletons, a minotaur, a Cerberus, and a queen worm) with only two casualties.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby Pappets » Wed Mar 15 2017 6:55pm

So you finished scenario 2 already? Great!

Still about Waltz and Rock, you have to understand that Shining Force 3, as well all SF tactical games, is an onrails RPG. You can't choose where you want to go, no matter if it's important to the development of the story or not, and you can't go back.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Wed Mar 15 2017 10:55pm

I'm aware of that, but that doesn't change that I didn't really expect them to be secret characters until after the fact, therefore assumed that linear progression was going to bring me back to Balsamo after finding the solution to help them in Dusty.

I thought about starting over right then, since it was so early on, but if I cared that much about the possibility of missing characters I would've looked them up in advance. It's just annoying that the game's very first recruits were secret when you start with so few, and to top it off it felt like forever before I got anybody else. Yeah, SF1 starts off with some secret characters like Gong and Gort, but they also throw you Mae and Khris at around that same time, and there's not really any trick to recruiting either Gong or Gort like with later secret characters. It did add a whole new meaning though to later story segments where the game keeps making a point of how small Medion's army is.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby Pappets » Thu Mar 16 2017 2:11pm

DomingoRules! wrote: (...) was going to bring me back to Balsamo (...).


You know, remembering my 1st play of scenario 2, you're not the only one who thought that way. I thought Dusty Village was a dead end and i would go back to Balsamo and take a ship to somewhere or maybe go back to Saraband.
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Re: Well... Oops!

Postby DomingoRules! » Thu Mar 16 2017 7:00pm

Funnily enough, much later on there's an HQ quote by Arthur where he mentions Waltz, and I was just like, "Waltz isn't here."

The troubles you mentioned with the penultimate battle though is definitely one reason as to exactly why the game shouldn't have so many missable characters. Even with only having a total of 14 characters, I still had missable characters to spare (those that immediately come to mind are Penko, Arthur, and Garosh).
WARNING: SPOILER!
Meaning it's very possible to not even have enough to fill a single party by the end, let alone two. Great as the game is, that to me seems like a seriously flawed design oversight.
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