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Scenario 1 Characters?

A simple(?) request

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Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby DomingoRules! » Tue Feb 28 2017 7:01pm

Nearing the end of Scenario 1, and not looking up stuff online about missables since it's essentially my first real play through, I wanted to see what secret characters I missed out on strictly out of curiosity. However, when I tried looking up a collection of the mug shots on Google image search, all that popped up were sets for Scenario 2 and 3. I even tried specifying things like "Scenario 1" and "Synbios Force" but I kept getting nothing.

Basically, since Google didn't work out for me on the surface, and I don't want to go digging deep into any specific websites that may contain spoilers (although I may have already seen one or two little ones based on specific Scenario 2 and 3 party members), I was wondering if it wouldn't be too much trouble to get a screenshot posted here of the entire mug shot cast of party members from Scenario 1 to satisfy this mild itch of curiosity. I must be missing at least a few, unless the back of the box lies about the number of characters being 27.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby MCRT » Tue Feb 28 2017 7:20pm

I'm not sure why the box states 27... but Synbios Force (including Julian, excluding the mercenaries) are 20 characters. I'm not sure how many mercenaries were available, therefore I cannot provide an exact number.

But remembering from my childhood the most likely missed Characters will be Horst (Gladiator), Penn (Penguin), Frank (Werewolf) when you did not figure out how to recruit him and, of course, Hagane (Ninja) as well as Noon (Wizard).
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby DomingoRules! » Tue Feb 28 2017 8:06pm

There's four mercenaries. I remembered that even before getting back up to that point because I recalled there being one of every major class, except for archer. One knight, wizard, healer/monk, and warrior.

Of those characters you mentioned, the only one I'm missing is Hagane. I can't really imagine missing Noon though, unless there's a requirement I don't know about for making him appear, or you just actively avoid talking to people. And speaking of listing off the secret characters, I've also been wondering if Justin is a secret character, since (unless the game stops you until you talk to him, or he comes out of the tent regardless) I imagine it may be possible to just leave Vagabond without ever meeting him.

WARNING: SPOILER!


Maybe the count also includes other NPC characters that are incorporated as allies in battle, but never actually join your force, such as Garosh, as an attempt to oversell the game's features a bit, even though it specifies them as "playable characters." Either way, that number always disappointed me. Sure, the game has some great customization options with special weapons, but I still find it disappointing how the box advertises 27 characters on a game made for a cutting edge console, when the previous Genesis titles both had a Force size of 30.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby MCRT » Wed Mar 01 2017 11:30pm

Yeah, on the first playthrough without guide it can actually happen only accidentially that you find Hagane, as the way to get him is very shining force gaiden/ SFCD like.

When you kill the Kyon-Shi which is Noon you will not get him.
Hmm, yeah, theoretical you could miss Justin I guess.
Yeah, at first Frank is very cryptic.

Maybe they count the refugees too? Or the text was written before the game was finished, because a prototype of Medion is also in the game as unused character.

I actually preferr the less character approach in the way it is used in SF III. In the previous games, it was never required to use all characters as many were almost identical stat wise or some were really weak and you had always a few characters that made the competition pointless:

SFI Domingo, Kokichi, Guntz, Musashi, Bleu (if trained), Arthur (when promoted late) and compared to the other archers also Lyle
SFII Peter, Barons, MMNKs & Slade
SFCD Domingo, Claude, Rush + every wizard with Freeze 3 when playing the original Gaidens on Game Gear
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby DomingoRules! » Thu Mar 02 2017 1:36am

Well, I did find a few random pieces of mithril by standing on the right spots, so I suppose it is possible.

I feel like Justin may be a secret character sort of in the same vein as Anri (so I've heard). Somebody you can theoretically miss, but nobody actually would. Of course, that's assuming the game lets you leave without him, which I'll probably test whenever I play through the game again.

I have mixed feelings about the low character count. Sure, it allows each character to feel more relevant since the game isn't flooded with mindless recruitments that are basically like, "Hey, you're the good guy, so I'm joining you with no context whatsoever," like in the older titles, and the sheer level of customization with special weapons and proficiencies can make up for it. On the other hand, I feel like if I'm playing an SRPG over and over again, I want to have a variety of characters so I'm not stuck having it so half my party consists of the same ones every single play through. Ironically, the two SRPGs I like more than Shining Force 3 are Vanguard Bandits, and Vandal Hearts, both of which give you even less party control since they both force you to use everybody in your group.

Mainly though, I just can't get over how it feels like a step backwards, because the Genesis games had more characters on a console capable of less.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby Chinagonuk » Fri Mar 03 2017 9:09pm

I don't think you can miss Justin. I'm pretty sure the game will not let you leave Vagabond until you've spoken to him.

EDIT: Correction, you can miss Justin, as i'm on a playthrough and i've chosen to do so.
Last edited by Chinagonuk on Fri Jun 30 2017 10:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Mar 04 2017 12:32am

All right. I did just beat the game last night, and that is supported by Gabriel asking if you've found the secret characters. Pretty sure Justin's name wasn't included in that list, and honestly that wasn't an aspect of the game I knew about until then, since discouragement prevented me from beating the game back when I first played it. Still, I'll probably wind up testing it anyway whenever I get around to playing the game again.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby MCRT » Sat Mar 04 2017 2:18pm

DomingoRules! wrote:All right. I did just beat the game last night, and that is supported by Gabriel asking if you've found the secret characters. Pretty sure Justin's name wasn't included in that list, and honestly that wasn't an aspect of the game I knew about until then, since discouragement prevented me from beating the game back when I first played it. Still, I'll probably wind up testing it anyway whenever I get around to playing the game again.

Chinagonuk wrote:I don't think you can miss Justin. I'm pretty sure the game will not let you leave Vagabond until you've spoken to him.


Ok, seems like a valid point. I never tried it but I guessed it may be possible.

DomingoRules! wrote:I have mixed feelings about the low character count. Sure, it allows each character to feel more relevant since the game isn't flooded with mindless recruitments that are basically like, "Hey, you're the good guy, so I'm joining you with no context whatsoever," like in the older titles, and the sheer level of customization with special weapons and proficiencies can make up for it. On the other hand, I feel like if I'm playing an SRPG over and over again, I want to have a variety of characters so I'm not stuck having it so half my party consists of the same ones every single play through. Ironically, the two SRPGs I like more than Shining Force 3 are Vanguard Bandits, and Vandal Hearts, both of which give you even less party control since they both force you to use everybody in your group.

Mainly though, I just can't get over how it feels like a step backwards, because the Genesis games had more characters on a console capable of less.


If you train them with a different weapon or multiple or all actually let them feel very different, as each type gives you other advantages.
Also as you have to use everyone and all member are more unique than in Genesis games (every character has his individual elemental resistance and mages also have their individual spell-element proficiencys) it actually never became an issue to me.
I haven't played vanguard bandits yet and only Vandal Hearts II in full from those, so I cannot really compare. I actually really enjoyed the control and the additional content Vandal Hearts provided, but it always bothered me that the game becomes too easy when you find everything and also that all party members with the same equipment were identical.

Then you will be pleased to hear that Sc. 3 contains more characters than the others.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Mar 04 2017 6:58pm

I've beaten Vandal Hearts quite a few times, and revisit it much more frequently than most of my RPGs because of how short it is (pretty sure I can beat it in about 20 hours, or even less). I never had much chance to get very far in the second one though, but I have also beaten the third one that was released as a downloadable game on the 360 (and maybe other systems) which was... Neat.

My brother got pretty far in Vandal Hearts 2 once though, and even he said he didn't beat it because it eventually got boring. Claiming that the battles wound up becoming more tedious than challenging, his main example being enemy archers. Because of how they're always positioned, he said it was pretty much a matter of charging in and hoping for the best, or tiresomely moving one unit in and out of their range every round until they depleted all their arrows with missing.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby MCRT » Wed Mar 08 2017 4:29pm

DomingoRules! wrote:
My brother got pretty far in Vandal Hearts 2 once though, and even he said he didn't beat it because it eventually got boring. Claiming that the battles wound up becoming more tedious than challenging, his main example being enemy archers. Because of how they're always positioned, he said it was pretty much a matter of charging in and hoping for the best, or tiresomely moving one unit in and out of their range every round until they depleted all their arrows with missing.


Actually it is quite the opposite than just charging in. But then I can understand that it was no fun.

Maybe I should have mentioned that I beat this game over 10 times and analysed the sh*t out of it ;) therefore I know what is the most efficient to do and also can determine (even control) what the enemy will do.
I guess it must be my most played SRPG after the SF series and Dragonforce.

At this point I actually have to break a lance for this game. The point why the end becomes boring to me (in addition to how often I played the game) is actually that in this game the equipment determines everything, and therefore a boss normally is dangerous because he always has better equipment than the weapons available to you. But in the final battle you can have better weapons or equal ones but packed with sick special abilities. The whole archer thing actually also ends pretty early in the game.
It is quite different to SF3, but you should give it another shot in the future and also try to find the incredible amount of bonus stuff and battles this game offers.
It is far more about positioning and includes some great tactical possibilies (for example: position-swapping, tackling an enemy to cancel their final action or terra-forming). Even challenge runs are possible (for example: sword-fighters only). The thing is just have to get used to the dual-turn thing and the actually depth of possibilities it offers. :thumbsup:

The game also offers a battle were you can play against a shadow version of your team (like in SFCD Book 3), which is actually quite challenging/fun without knowing some tricks or having a specific strategy.

Maybe I should really try the first one in between when it really is that short (even if I prefer longer ones despite my lack of free-time)
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby DomingoRules! » Wed Mar 08 2017 6:15pm

I did really like the battle system in Vandal Hearts 2, and whenever I explain it to anybody I start by telling them that it's unlike anything they've ever played before. A claim that's always true, and I love the confused expressions when I tell them that it's a turn-based game where both you and the enemy move simultaneously. It's really a game where you need to think ahead, and learn to read your foes.

By comparison, the first game is ultra simplistic. Probably on the same level as Shining Force in terms of gameplay simplicity, but the thing that puts it over Shining Force for me is the special missions. Sure, there are some battles that are just, "Kill all Enemies," but there are also several with special objectives. Such as rescuing somebody within a certain number of turns, or avoid killing zombified villagers, or race across a train while its cars are being detached. The game also has promotions with slightly branching paths (by which I mean you can only branch during the first of two promotions), allowing for a bit of decision by the player in a game that's character progression is otherwise just gaining levels.

I do prefer longer games as well in general. I just prefer shorter when it comes to replay value, since if I'm replaying a game I've already beaten, it's usually on a whim that'll pass in two or three days. That's why Vandal Hearts works, because it's an RPG I can blow through almost completely during a weekend.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby MCRT » Sat Mar 11 2017 10:07am

DomingoRules! wrote:I did really like the battle system in Vandal Hearts 2, and whenever I explain it to anybody I start by telling them that it's unlike anything they've ever played before. A claim that's always true, and I love the confused expressions when I tell them that it's a turn-based game where both you and the enemy move simultaneously. It's really a game where you need to think ahead, and learn to read your foes.


Asfar as I remember it still is unique to this game only. But unfotunately, this also puts of many people, because it is so different.
But also the whole "stuff lying on the ground, but you need an ability to find it" mechanic is rather rare :)

DomingoRules! wrote:By comparison, the first game is ultra simplistic. Probably on the same level as Shining Force in terms of gameplay simplicity, but the thing that puts it over Shining Force for me is the special missions. Sure, there are some battles that are just, "Kill all Enemies," but there are also several with special objectives. Such as rescuing somebody within a certain number of turns, or avoid killing zombified villagers, or race across a train while its cars are being detached. The game also has promotions with slightly branching paths (by which I mean you can only branch during the first of two promotions), allowing for a bit of decision by the player in a game that's character progression is otherwise just gaining levels.


Yeah, I already heard about the branching paths, but I actually like such stuff, as long as it is balanced. But it always bugged me that SF2 was the only one were the whole promotion item thing was used.

If you like such special stuff in your battles, I guess you will greatly enjoy Sc 3

DomingoRules! wrote:I do prefer longer games as well in general. I just prefer shorter when it comes to replay value, since if I'm replaying a game I've already beaten, it's usually on a whim that'll pass in two or three days. That's why Vandal Hearts works, because it's an RPG I can blow through almost completely during a weekend.


Makes sense, even if I never have a whole weekend free at once. I always try to mix in some new games (as I have a quite long "to play"-list), but when I just have a few hours one a weekend, I rather play one of faves, but often with the focus on experimenting around with the game to possibly find out new stuff.
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Re: Scenario 1 Characters?

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Mar 11 2017 6:49pm

The branches are decently balanced in Vandal Hearts, and the only character who doesn't have a branching path is the main character. For example, a Soldier can either go a route where he keeps using a sword, and is a well balanced fighter, or they can take the route of being an Armor class character, using axes instead of swords, and having ridiculously high offense and defense in exchange for low mobility, and vulnerability to magic. Whereas archers can become either better archers, or ditch the bow to become flying melee units, replacing attack range with unrestricted mobility to get into attack positions easily, and reach secrets.

My only huge gripe with the branching paths is that both healers and mages can branch into the same thing. Naturally, healers can become specialized healers, and mages can become specialized wizards, but they can BOTH also become monks, with there being no difference between them except for their first few spells they learn before promotion. Yeah, monks are basically a mix of healer, mage, and fighter, but I still feel like they could've done something a bit more creative. Like maybe make it so that the healer gets the monk class if you want a healer that can also fight, and giving the mages a branching path where maybe one is more about hitting ultra hard, and the other is about dealing lesser damage with AoE spells, rather than just giving the specialized wizard branch spells that are just ultra strong AoE spells.

*Edit: Just double checked the instruction manual, and the game only has five base classes. Hero, Soldier, Archer, Healer, and Mage, all of which except Hero have a branching path upon the first promotion.
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