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Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

12 Soulmates up, down and across

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Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Cosine » Thu May 03 2018 12:55pm

Seriously though! Has anyone ever done this?
I thought I had a sure-fire way of grinding Soulmates, and things were going well but I've hit a deadzone. I can't seem to get any one single unit past 8 total Soulmates. I've been trying for days now to get Synbios his 9th Soulmate: Justin, but the two just don't seem to want to sync.

My method:
In the first area of the optional dungeon at the end of Scenario 1, there are 8 total respawning skeletons. These enemies can be lured to the starting position of the stage, and choked in front of the x3 tile wide hallway. Using 3 units to tank at, and plug the choke point, the skeletons will form up (hopefully/eventually) and get stuck in a pattern that allows you to attack them all at once with an Evil Ring, and finished off with a Spark Glove, Spark spell, Ark Halberd or other means of AOE from another Trusted unit.
While the Evil Ring does do random-ish damage, it will NEVER completely kill the skeleton enemies, unless the ring user has a magic enhancing friend in the vicinity, or the user has a weapon equipped (or the unit is a spellcaster!)
All allies are unequipped of their weapons to prevent counters as well.

My hardware:
Mod-chip Sega Saturn with burned disks (of course, I own all the original games :thumbsup: )

Guides say that a Soulmate is randomly awarded after 15 total Friendship points, and that 2 points are awarded for kills. This formation yields 16 Friendship points (and was yielding Soulmates up to a certain point). Guides also suggest that you can simply reset and reload if the attempt fails, but this doesn't seem to be the case based on my experience. It seems that if a Soulmate has failed, it will continue to fail through resets, almost as if the RNG has been stuck. If a Soulmate has failed for me, I simply reload and try a different unit, rather than the same 2 units over and over again.

Have I hit some kind of "Soulmate cap" or something? Has anyone had a single unit achieve 9+ Soulmates? Or even the big 12? I wanted to have a perfect 12x12 Soulsquad before playing Scenario 2 (for the first time in English no less! :blush:).
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Swalchy » Thu May 03 2018 3:28pm

Yes; numerous times I've got all the forces soulmated. It's not impossible, but I have found that the USA and PAL versions of Scenario 1 seem to make it a bit more difficult to get people soulmated.

Scenario 1 Japanese version was no trouble, and whenever I was attempting to soulmate everyone, I switched to that.
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby knight0fdragon » Mon May 07 2018 9:31pm

Use the vandal battle to get everybody up until Noon soulmated
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Cosine » Fri May 11 2018 5:55pm

knight0fdragon wrote:Use the vandal battle to get everybody up until Noon soulmated

Ah, yes. I know this strat. I think I used a paperweight and went to bed. Woke up and almost everyone was Soulmated. A great strat for the early game.

Swalchy wrote:Yes; numerous times I've got all the forces soulmated. It's not impossible, but I have found that the USA and PAL versions of Scenario 1 seem to make it a bit more difficult to get people soulmated.

Scenario 1 Japanese version was no trouble, and whenever I was attempting to soulmate everyone, I switched to that.

Damn. I actually don't have the Japanese version of Scenario 1. Would love to do some testing to see if the RNG is more forgiving. I guess I'll find out in Scenario 2 though.


I have done more testing though, and I think I've got it figured out now. As I said before: I'm almost 100% certain that you CANNOT force a Soulmate by attempting the same two units over and over again by resetting. Once the attempt has been made, and if it has failed, it will continue to fail through resets.

I tried a bunch of things to try to scramble the RNG, like equipping/unequipping weapons and shifting units around before the Soulmate attempt, but the fail is locked-in. The only way to reset the RNG, it seems, is to shift the turn over to a new turn; this means once the unit with the lowest agility as ended their turn, and the unit with the fastest agility is up to execute an action, then the turn has cycled, and you're on a new attempt.

Example: (This example assumes that you have 8 enemies, all tagged by a single unit, that cannot move)
Frank is Soulmates with all units except Dantares, Noon & Irene.
Attempt 1:
1. Irene wastes turn 'cuz she's too damn fast
2. Frank attacks X8 skeletons with an Evil Ring
3 -Game Saved-
4. Dantares Sparks with Ark Halberd/Attempt failed.
5. -Soft reset-
6. Noon Sparks/Attempt failed
7. -Soft reset-
8. All units & enemies exhaust their turns

Attempt 2:
1. -Game Saved-
2. Irene Sparks with an Evil Ring/Attempt failed
3. -Soft reset-
4. Dantares Sparks with Ark Halberd/Attempt failed
5. -Soft reset-
6. Noon Sparks/Soulmate success

In the above example: any Trusted unit that is capable of attacking all of Frank's tagged enemies at once take turns attempting a soulmate on the same turn. Since all thee units failed on attempt/turn 1, the turn is cycled and saved over; resetting the RNG. A new attempt can now be made with all capable Trusted units. If the 2nd attempt fails, the turn must be cycled, and the game must be saved to delete the previous turn. Wash, rinse, & repeat until one of the capable Trusted units gets a bite.

By using this method, I was able to score a bunch of new Soulmates in one night. I'm actually pretty damn close to 12x12 now.
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Pappets » Sun May 13 2018 11:10am

Cosine wrote:
knight0fdragon wrote:Use the vandal battle to get everybody up until Noon soulmated

Ah, yes. I know this strat. I think I used a paperweight and went to bed. Woke up and almost everyone was Soulmated. A great strat for the early game.


:lol:
btw how come no one died :confused:
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Swalchy » Sun May 13 2018 9:59pm

Pappets wrote:
Cosine wrote:
knight0fdragon wrote:Use the vandal battle to get everybody up until Noon soulmated

Ah, yes. I know this strat. I think I used a paperweight and went to bed. Woke up and almost everyone was Soulmated. A great strat for the early game.


:lol:
btw how come no one died :confused:

If you get the Vandal in the right place, and have him use up all his MP, as long as you only use range attackers, then he won't move.

It's very easy to soulmate at least 3-4 people with range attacks like that (this time of the game you will have been able to get 2-range weapons for Julian, Synbios, Dantares, Cybel, Hayward, and Obright).
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Pappets » Sat May 19 2018 8:55pm

Swalchy wrote:If you get the Vandal in the right place, and have him use up all his MP, as long as you only use range attackers, then he won't move.

It's very easy to soulmate at least 3-4 people with range attacks like that (this time of the game you will have been able to get 2-range weapons for Julian, Synbios, Dantares, Cybel, Hayward, and Obright).


Why not just use the SF3 save file editor instead? It would be alot easier then leaving the game running on the saturn all night.
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby knight0fdragon » Mon May 21 2018 7:52am

Because 1) not everybody wants to cheat, and 2) not everybody has a way to transfer save files to and from a Sega Saturn
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby legalize freedom » Mon May 21 2018 12:23pm

I'm pretty sure it's cheating either way. :shifty:
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Pappets » Mon May 21 2018 12:25pm

knight0fdragon wrote:Because 1) not everybody wants to cheat, (...)


I don't think it's cheating. It's just a faster way, a shortcut, to achieve something which is not that normal to do in the game.
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby knight0fdragon » Mon May 21 2018 12:54pm

It is cheating, you are manipulating the game outside the realm of the provided rules.
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Pappets » Mon May 21 2018 12:57pm

The vandal trick is not cheating but it's an exploitation of the game's flaws. That's why i would prefer to use the editor.
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby knight0fdragon » Mon May 21 2018 7:00pm

Vandal trick is in no way cheating, nor is it really a game flaw. Otherwise egressing or tricking enemies to walk a certain way would also constitute cheating or a flaw.

You are simply predicting the movements of your invincible opponent and taking advantage of the situation.

A game flaw would be something like a duplicate item trick, where you are doing something outside the realm of the normal rules of the game.

I have a strong belief that the developers knew fully well that the Vandal could be used to be taken advantage of, because he appears at the moment that you should be promoting your units.
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Pappets » Mon May 21 2018 7:33pm

knight0fdragon wrote:I have a strong belief that the developers knew fully well that the Vandal could be used to be taken advantage of, because he appears at the moment that you should be promoting your units.


That might be true indeed because the same happens in the 2nd scenario in the battle with the octupus, if i'm not mistaken. In this battle you can also level up your characters beyond level 10. The difference is that the octupus continuous to attack. I don't know for sure because i only played scenario 2 two times.
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Re: Is a full force of Soulmates even possible?

Postby Chinagonuk » Thu May 31 2018 9:35pm

Cosine wrote:I have done more testing though, and I think I've got it figured out now. As I said before: I'm almost 100% certain that you CANNOT force a Soulmate by attempting the same two units over and over again by resetting. Once the attempt has been made, and if it has failed, it will continue to fail through resets.

I tried a bunch of things to try to scramble the RNG, like equipping/unequipping weapons and shifting units around before the Soulmate attempt, but the fail is locked-in. The only way to reset the RNG, it seems, is to shift the turn over to a new turn; this means once the unit with the lowest agility as ended their turn, and the unit with the fastest agility is up to execute an action, then the turn has cycled, and you're on a new attempt.


I'm almost 100% sure the fail doesn't get "locked in" however after many hours of experimentation with the RNG in this game i can say there are times (like you are describing) where the chance of soulmate is drastically reduced but never at 0% chance.

At least this is true while using an emulator, testing with save states. There are times when a soulmate can occure quite frequently (like about 1 in 5) and other times when it's more like 1 in 50 but it always triggers at some point.
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