All Things Shining: Max's Sons

[Wulfunruh]

Does anyone else feel like Deanna and Hindel could've been Max's sons? Dropped off at the IOM daycare, while their Father gallivanted around? Is there evidence to support or hinder this theory? To me, it seems completely unattached. However, I'd LIKE to believe it. ...and does anyone have insight to the lowly swordsman situation? What went down there?

[ZethaPonderer]

If there is one problem I have with when discussing SFCD is that these stories could've taken place at any time and have barely little to no connection with the established lore that was in SF1. At least SF2 along with SF: Final Conflict gave you the courtesy to fill out the plotholes of the aftermath of SF1. As much as I like SFCD, we're given new heroes that have no connection to Max nor is there any shred of evidence I found that would tell if Max ever bore a child. And even if he did, who was the lucky lady? Some generic villager lady? Granted Wulfunruh, you're trying to bring out an interesting point that maybe there might exist a plausibility for Deanna and Hindel to be Max's son.

It must be Deanna's hair that resembles like that of Max somewhat and I forget something about Hindel. Does Hindel get unmasked when getting sacrificed by Warderer at the end of Book 2? The only true fire way to make any sense out of the connections the first two SF Gaiden games share with SF1 is to talk this over to the creators that made this game and see if they had a plan before this where Max's son would be the star of the new Shining Force Game. At least the nice thing I can say throughout all this rant is that the name of SFCD has 'Gaiden' written all over it. Meaning it's just a side story, but I'm pretty sure you can make an interesting side story that can connect with the established entries of any franchise though its difficult to pull off. SFCD's plot leaves a lot to be desired even for a measly side story. :/

Edit: Replaced Woldol with the correct antagonist of Book 2. Warderer. PS, I do like Nick. He is my favorite Hero throughout the entire SF series. It's just that SFCD feels like its trying to connect the aftermath of SF1's story though it's little and doesn't feel like it has any weight when SFCD's plot could've taken place at any time. Sword of Hajya is pretty cool, but it's no Chaos Breaker (Force Sword). It would be nice if Max would bear a child in this Gaiden game.

[Wulfunruh]

Yeah, as far as I've read the creators had little intention of bridging anything together when it all started. Which creates a lot of room to bring them together ourselves. Then again you have one side that will be open to anything, and another that'd shut it down if there aren't cold hard facts. I forget where I read it, but somewhere it talked about the "Force" being passed down through a bloodline.

[chevkraken]

As much as I like SFCD, we're given new heroes that have no connection to Max nor is there any shred of evidence I found that would tell if Max ever bore a child. And even if he did, who was the lucky lady?

Even if maybe not canon, Shining force manga was pairing Max with Anri.

And in the recent Shining Ark, there is some hints than the main character could be Max's son.

There is so much potential child for Max.

[TheUnknownMarine]

As much as I like SFCD, we're given new heroes that have no connection to Max nor is there any shred of evidence I found that would tell if Max ever bore a child. And even if he did, who was the lucky lady?

Even if maybe not canon, Shining force manga was pairing Max with Anri.

And in the recent Shining Ark, there is some hints than the main character could be Max's son.

There is so much potential child for Max.

I thought the Manga paired Max with Mae, though IMHO Anri would've made more sense.

What hints are there in Ark, do tell, please.

[chevkraken]

actually, in Shining Ark, the main character, Freed, found Adam in a ruin. Adam see him directly as his master even if the Freed never seen him. And in the EX chapter (after the end of the game), we learn that Freed father was an ancient knowing time travel technology(in ROTDD, Max and Kane were time traveller) who send him(while a baby) in the future from 1000 years ago to save him from death.

So Freed, is the son of an Ancient time traveller, master of Adam and who was living around the time were Dark Dragon was ressurected(As Shining Ark is set few times after Blade who was set 1000 years after last Dark Dragon ressurection)

[ZethaPonderer]

Oh yeah. How could I forget the part where SF1 tries to incorporate a time-travel plot device into their story? Honestly, it just makes this entire speculation of Max's whereabouts and him either bearing a child really moot if you ask me since not only is it very easy to mess up a time travel story, but just makes the story have a new continuity be established instead of the previous one.

Though I must admit it was a valiant attempt on Camelot's part before Chrono Trigger, but it just makes their story so needlessly complex than it has to be when looking at the later Shining franchises that have their own little story to follow and could care less about having any continuity with the previous entries for the most part.

[TheUnknownMarine]

Camelot's idea wasn't time travel in the conventional sense, it was cryo-freezing Ancients to emerge in the future, which is another thing entirely.

[ZethaPonderer]

Oh ok. Thanks for correcting me there TheUnknownMarine. Funny I always thought the story of SF1 felt like a weird Time Travel story, but yours make a lot more sense.

[chevkraken]

In modern Shining, the ancient are already dimension traveller
In modern Shining, most of the Ancient leave the Shining world to our world 2000 (or 1000, it's not clear) before Shining blade (most of the peoples think they died) and the last ones died 1000 years prior Shining Ark when somes godlike came from space in somes Ark.
And actually, they are also time traveller because 2000 years in Shining world mean only around 50 years in our world.

And from what I remember, Mawlock is a time traveller in ROTDD

[Corsair]

Some related Ideas I have rattling around in my head:

- The reason you don't see as much ancient technology in SFCD, is that the ones using it are largely dead. Darksol and his lot found themselves a nice, huge stash of it but there's probably not much left at this point outside of that, that's managed to survive the ravages of time and even fewer people who might be old or smart enough to make use of it. You see it pop up again in SitD, but only at the final boss - Which to me reads like this was basically what was left. Ol Mephisto sets up shop in this this labyrinth because that's where the rest of the tech was. I do wonder though - since Final Conflict stages itself before SitD how Baby Mephisto learned of his origins and got ahold of how to harness the Demon Breath.


- Max and Kane, as far as I can tell, have never been painted as traveling through time, but much as TUM states, were cryogenically frozen in the distant past. Makes you wonder what Max was up to before he washed up on the shore. *Cue wild speculation*
Maybe there's some lore in newer shining games that indicates this, but I don't really consider non-camelot shining to handle the subject matter appropriately.

I seem to recall that this is established in some Shining media that never made it to the US, prior to ROTDD's release? Correct me if i'm wrong.


- Headcanon: The Sword of Hajya is part of the same 'line' of weapons as the sword of light/Force Sword/Chaos breaker that show up in various shining games. Ancient technology is powerful, tough-as-nails, and mysterious, so it stands to reason that The SoH would be regarded as a fairly powerful artifact in its own right, even if people didn't fully understand where it came from or what it actually is. Why should the Chaos Breaker be the only thing that shuts off the Obviously-a-bioweapon Dark Dragon? Ancient Magic/Science wooj - some result of channeling the properties of the two weapons disrupts the shit out of whatever Dark Dragon is made of. Game never implies that the swords of light and darkness are strictly unique things - although by the time SF1 rolls around, they'd very probably be perceived as such (You run across other similarly named and themed weapons though most Shining games. Seem unlikely that they're the same weapon.)


- I don't consider Mawlock anything remotely like canon

[Cullsoft]

Some related Ideas I have rattling around in my head:

- The reason you don't see as much ancient technology in SFCD, is that the ones using it are largely dead. Darksol and his lot found themselves a nice, huge stash of it but there's probably not much left at this point outside of that, that's managed to survive the ravages of time and even fewer people who might be old or smart enough to make use of it. You see it pop up again in SitD, but only at the final boss - Which to me reads like this was basically what was left. Ol Lucifer sets up shop in this this labyrinth because that's where the rest of it was. I do wonder though - since Final Conflict stages itself before SitD how Baby Lucifer learned of his origins and got ahold of how to harness the Demon Breath.

Baby Lucifer? Is that a typo for Mephisto (SITD Dark Sol's original name), or is this info that's been found about this elusive Lucifer character (IIRC mentioned at Tristan in SF2)?

[Wulfunruh]

To me, it seems that ol' Lucifer is big chilling. If I were to write in some continuity...it'd be that Luc decided to sit out of the big three way rumble after a while...and let Darksol chip away at Zeon. Only to clutch steal the win later on...that's just me though. Then again, he was a magician not a tactician.

[Corsair]

Some related Ideas I have rattling around in my head:

- The reason you don't see as much ancient technology in SFCD, is that the ones using it are largely dead. Darksol and his lot found themselves a nice, huge stash of it but there's probably not much left at this point outside of that, that's managed to survive the ravages of time and even fewer people who might be old or smart enough to make use of it. You see it pop up again in SitD, but only at the final boss - Which to me reads like this was basically what was left. Ol Lucifer sets up shop in this this labyrinth because that's where the rest of it was. I do wonder though - since Final Conflict stages itself before SitD how Baby Lucifer learned of his origins and got ahold of how to harness the Demon Breath.

Baby Lucifer? Is that a typo for Mephisto (SITD Dark Sol's original name), or is this info that's been found about this elusive Lucifer character (IIRC mentioned at Tristan in SF2)?

Yeah. Got crosstalked in my head. That's what I meant. Text corrected.


Another, probably kind of important note is how similar Dark Dragon looks to Mephisto's final appearance in SITD. I'm sure that's not just incidental.