Shining the Holy Ark: Unpromoted playthrough

[Swalchy]

Yeah - Forte is Unpromoted when you get him back.

And he's using Lisa out of battle to heal, therefore she doesn't get any EXP

[Righteous Force]

And he's using Lisa out of battle to heal, therefore she doesn't get any EXP

Is this true, people out of battle don't get EXP? I thought they did?

[Martin III]

I think he's way down at like 15 unpromoted. Maybe I'm totally off there.

And really, Lisa shouldn't be used for healing. Depending on how bad it gets, maybe not even item storage.

Yep, Forte joins at 15 unpromoted.

I think using Lisa for item storage is fair. After all, she'd have that same storage even if she were unpromoted. But yeah, though I doubt it makes any actual difference in terms of how challenging the playthrough is, technically Lisa shouldn't be used for healing between battles.

EDIT: Just noticed Sinful Force's post. Yes, people get experience points whether they're in the active party or not. The only way you can keep Lisa from getting experience points is to have her killed and not revive her.

[Swalchy]

Oh, I was sure they didn't.

I don't ever recall a level up after healing someone out of battle

[Lord Kane]

Haha, misunderstanding again...
No, a character doesn't get EXP by healing, but he/she gets EXP after a battle, even he/she hasn't been in the active party.

[Righteous Force]

Ah Lord Kane, is there anythig he does not know?

Well, I'm just glad I'm not losing my mind because I do recall the non-active party gaining EXP being one of my favourite things about this game. And since the game gives you plenty of money eventually, it's easy to fully equip everybody so that you can constantly play with many team variations throughout the whole game. What an awesome feature, wish more RPGs did it this way.


Oh, and I hate RPGs with fully customizable characters. Like "Lame Fantasy No-Tactics," for example.

[Swalchy]

And he's using Lisa out of battle to heal, therefore she doesn't get any EXP

Is this true, people out of battle don't get EXP? I thought they did?

Rereading what I said, I did appear to imply that none active members didn't get EXP.

What I was meaning was that Lisa wasn't getting any extra EXP from healing outside of battle, not that she didn't get any exp at all.

But as LK has said, EVERYONE in your party (as long as they're not dead), gets EXP from monsters killed.

Sorry. That was my fault entirely

[CyclonSilver]

About Lisa, I can understand why you say that using her even for healing outside of battle is bad. What you must understand, though, is that in the two final dungeons, my party was at max level, and thus fighting random battles was just a waste of time. Because they are long and hard, and because every magic point I'd use against them, I wouldn't have left to try and defeat the bosses. So basically, every fight I wasn't required to win(Cart ghosts and these wall things in tower of illusions, mainly), I fled.
Like any of us know, fleeing can fail, and then your party is defenseless.
It's to be noted, though, that retreating in this game is a very viable option, as it fails rarely, and even when it does, sometimes the enemy won't even act(or only one of them will if you face more than one), and I never had it fail more than three times a fight(which happened only once in around three hundred fights. Generally, the third time you're succesfully retreating everytime)
But when it did fail, using Lisa outside of battle to do the healing seemed like the way to go. Simpler, faster.

And for those who have read my previous post, I believe you understood that everything is extremely random, which can be good or bad. But as fleeing is random too, there is a possibility that you will never,ever fail to retreat, and never have to use Lisa. So using her that way doesn't disprove that ending the game without her is possible, in my view(which I would definitely have tried if you weren't forced to recruit her)...

About Panzer, I partially agree. I'm not sure myself if you can defeat him. But on the contrary of Rilix, you don't have to rush things, as he cannot Negate you, and never ends up out of MP; he's the same the whole fight through. And fully buffed, your team is completely different(even though you can't use Attack with an unpromoted team). So the problem would be the very first turns, and wether or not you can survive them. You do have the four holy waters(heals everyone to max HP)you collect trough the game, and his minions are sleepable... So it's not like I didn't have a plan, I just never had a chance to try it

Just get a new battery for it. They're what, $3 apiece at the local drugstore?

Sadly, they aren't so easy to find where I live(or so do I think). And in fact, I have more of a hard time replaying through a game if I have an endgame savefile on it. For some reason it's easier for me to start from scratch.
I do consider on getting one off Ebay, one of these days, though

[Martin III]

About Lisa, I can understand why you say that using her even for healing outside of battle is bad. What you must understand, though, is that in the two final dungeons, my party was at max level, and thus fighting random battles was just a waste of time. Because they are long and hard, and because every magic point I'd use against them, I wouldn't have left to try and defeat the bosses. So basically, every fight I wasn't required to win(Cart ghosts and these wall things in tower of illusions, mainly), I fled.
Like any of us know, fleeing can fail, and then your party is defenseless.
It's to be noted, though, that retreating in this game is a very viable option, as it fails rarely, and even when it does, sometimes the enemy won't even act(or only one of them will if you face more than one), and I never had it fail more than three times a fight(which happened only once in around three hundred fights. Generally, the third time you're succesfully retreating every time)
But when it did fail, using Lisa outside of battle to do the healing seemed like the way to go. Simpler, faster.

Just to clarify, that is basically what I meant. Technically an unpromoted playthrough wouldn't include Lisa healing even outside of battle, but her healing is a nice convenience that doesn't really make the play less challenging.

About Panzer, I partially agree. I'm not sure myself if you can defeat him. But on the contrary of Rilix, you don't have to rush things, as he cannot Negate you, and never ends up out of MP; he's the same the whole fight through. And fully buffed, your team is completely different(even though you can't use Attack with an unpromoted team). So the problem would be the very first turns, and whether or not you can survive them. You do have the four holy waters(heals everyone to max HP)you collect trough the game, and his minions are sleepable... So it's not like I didn't have a plan, I just never had a chance to try it

Very interesting plan, and I do wish we could have some confirmation of whether it actually works. To be honest, though, I really think Panzer + two Evil Bodies all attacking in the same turn would spell doom for your party, especially if he uses Chaotic Blizzard.

Just get a new battery for it. They're what, $3 apiece at the local drugstore?

Sadly, they aren't so easy to find where I live(or so do I think).

Hmm, I find that hard to believe, seeing as that type of battery is used in several dozen electronic products. If it's not at your drugstore, try an electronics store or supermarket.

[CyclonSilver]

To be honest, though, I really think Panzer + two Evil Bodies all attacking in the same turn would spell doom for your party, especially if he uses Chaotic Blizzard.

Yup, I do think so too. Unless your whole party uses the "defend" command(which would be pretty useless), you're pretty much doomed.
Yet, even though I don't know precisely how quick the evil bodies are, I believe Rodi with the haste ring is quite a lot faster. So sleeping them before they even act all the way trough the point they die(resleeping them if needed)should be possible, if not necessary...
And I can confirm that Panzer uses Chaotic blizzard on the very first turn, as if I'm not mistaken, he follows a pattern of attack just like Rilix and Blader. The question is, does it one hit kill Rodi, which has the Haste ring equipped instead of a Dragon orb?
You're the one, though(in an older topic), that gave me the idea of using Basso to heal between Panzer's two actions, either using an elixir on the right person, or a Holy rain if his first action is Chaotic Blizzard. So even though no one at that point could survive Chaotic Blizzard plus an attack, this shouldn't be a problem. Though this would require Melody to be out of the team(as Akane's God's wind is too important to be skipped)for a turn or two, so no Support level 2 at the very beginning... But there might be no other way...

that type of battery is used in several dozen electronic products.

Eh, I didn't know about that. I always thought it was something more... Specific to the Saturn(and thus a lot more expensive).
I'll be investigating that, thanks a lot!

[Rune]

Yeah, it's a rather standard battery. If you have a radioshack in town, they probably have it. Some larger grocery stores even have them.

[Swalchy]

CR2032 is the battery you need.

It's used for Computer Motherboards and most watches, so you could actually go into a watch store and ask for them

[Martin III]

Yet, even though I don't know precisely how quick the evil bodies are, I believe Rodi with the haste ring is quite a lot faster. So sleeping them before they even act all the way trough the point they die(resleeping them if needed)should be possible, if not necessary...
And I can confirm that Panzer uses Chaotic blizzard on the very first turn, as if I'm not mistaken, he follows a pattern of attack just like Rilix and Blader. The question is, does it one hit kill Rodi, which has the Haste ring equipped instead of a Dragon orb?

Good question. On my low-level run, I don't think Chaotic Blizzard could even come close to taking down any members in one hit, but obviously unpromoted stats are considerably lower than the ones I had. I'd take even money on whether or not your Rodi could survive that.

I didn't know the Evil Bodies could be put to sleep. Then again, I'm not sure I've ever tried. If that is possible, then yeah, that should give you a fighting chance.

Eh, I didn't know about that. I always thought it was something more... Specific to the Saturn(and thus a lot more expensive).
I'll be investigating that, thanks a lot!

No problem.

[CajNatalie]

Team promoted at 40... got to Rilix with Arthur and Melody at 4; others at 3.
Arthur & Melody (and even Doyle, since his BD is trash) take about 100 damage from the Crystal Laser.
Yeah no chance for an unpromoted team of 40s... oh and in my previous playthrough where I had Forte spam Soul Steal 2, it took way too many tries to make just one die when I first attempted Rilix.
So without savestates... no way without the hugest of flukes will you soul steal both vampires and then get through Rilix's barrage of lasers.
;_;

Note: If anyone wants to know how my 40|4 run went... Lisa was my only hope, but that only meant she died to Rilix last. XD
Total Wipeout.

Update: 5th attempt, barely killed Rilix once Arthur and Melody hit 40|5 (others still 40|4)
Then the easiest battle with Panzer followed... the question is, easy for who?

I need to get a Kusanagi already... and then level up some more...