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Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Plus Some Game-Difficulty Thoughts

Also incorporating Shining Force Gaiden 1 & Shining Force Gaiden 2 (aka Sword of Hajya).

Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Special T » Mon Nov 07 2011 5:06am

Stordarth wrote:Based on that last screen shot, it would be my guess that the names in the opening scene are in fact just part of the game's dialogue. If you look, LUKE is capitalised. Lug, is not, suggesting it was simply typed into the text rather than inserted as a character ID variable. You'd have to figure out where all of the dialogue is, and how to decompress it to change that by the look of things.


I don't really know much about rom hacking, very minimal in fact, so hopefully someone comes along that knows where the dialog is kept and how to decompress it :(
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Flygon » Tue Nov 29 2011 9:10am

I wouldn't be too surprised if the dialogue uses extremely similar compression to Shining Force I and II. The case was similar for I and II, afterall.

The hard part is finding it, of course.

Just here to send my support. :)
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Doomblade66 » Thu Dec 01 2011 11:25pm

wow....flygon !! been awhile bud. I see your not Guntz anymore ! :excited:
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Flygon » Fri Dec 02 2011 11:51pm

Someone wanted my Guntz avatar.

And I wanted a Bleu avatar.

Everyone's happy.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby tggrng123 » Fri Dec 23 2011 12:39am

Anymore progress? I wish rubix was still around :/
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Omega Entity » Wed Apr 11 2012 11:55pm

Huh. A spambot slipped through.
(8:23:45 PM) ehow1990: stupid question: why do you have hay there?
(8:23:54 PM) YsFanatic18: She was feedigng horses
(8:23:58 PM) MXC0Spike: Barn sex
(8:24:07 PM) ahath714: She stuffs.
(8:24:39 PM) ehow1990: ask a stupid question and everybody has an answer XD
(8:23:45 PM) ehow1990: stupid question: why do you have hay there?
(8:23:54 PM) YsFanatic18: She was feedigng horses
(8:23:58 PM) MXC0Spike: Barn sex
(8:24:07 PM) ahath714: She stuffs.
(8:24:39 PM) ehow1990: ask a stupid question and everybody has an answer XD
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Doomblade66 » Mon Aug 19 2013 10:52am

Any update on this hoped-for project ? I long for the day we have a SF-CD Editor, as I think I could really make a few minor changes to the bosses and some of the other enemies, to enable a true Challenge Mode for this game (enemy damage - even at Super Mode - is sometimes too light, and enemy HP, defense, etc - is often not enough to withstand the power a level-20 promotion team can send their way).

I'd really like to beef up bosses - as some of them (mostly in Book-1) are pathetically weak, relative to your troopers - at the times you face them.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby DomingoRules! » Thu Aug 22 2013 6:16am

Doomblade66 wrote:Any update on this hoped-for project ? I long for the day we have a SF-CD Editor, as I think I could really make a few minor changes to the bosses and some of the other enemies, to enable a true Challenge Mode for this game (enemy damage - even at Super Mode - is sometimes too light, and enemy HP, defense, etc - is often not enough to withstand the power a level-20 promotion team can send their way).

I'd really like to beef up bosses - as some of them (mostly in Book-1) are pathetically weak, relative to your troopers - at the times you face them.


Sounds good to me, especially if you softened up Nick and Deanna a bit as well (not saying for sure that I would play such a mod though, since I usually don't play mods). My #1 problem with Shining Force CD was that it was just way too easy because both main characters felt practically immortal throughout, especially later on. I can understand having tanky characters that can get in the way with 60 HP, taking 2 points of damage from attacks to protect your other party members, but when it's your leader playing that role you start to wonder what the hell the developers were thinking.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Doomblade66 » Fri Aug 23 2013 4:52am

Exactly. Generally, I feel any game (character) design that allows your guys to ever take 1-2 hp of damage is absurd. The only time I feel that is justified is - maybe - from enemy Healers or Mages on your "ultimate end-game tank character". IE - a High Priest hitting Guntz in SF-1. The problem in most SF games, however, is that they do not do enough to balance out the forces so that just ONE character in your entire team is like this...instead (mostly in SF-1, as the issue is much, much, better in SF-2 on Super Difficulty at least) MOST of the team is like this - and takes pathetic damage from the Default attack values of most enemies.

Again, the issue is much better in SF-2 // slightly better in SF-CD (on Super mode, again) - but it's still irritating that most SF games "Default / Normal" difficulty levels are obnoxiously easy as you level up, etc - because of sub-par enemy attack / defense / etc - values.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby DomingoRules! » Fri Aug 23 2013 5:22am

And the sad thing about that is, if anything, the games should've made your characters more vulnerable to high amounts of damage to compensate for the crummy AI (especially in SF1). If the bulk of your force isn't taking considerable damage from attacks, it should be to compensate for things such as extreme enemy AI, numbers, etc.

The problem though lies in the balance between stats of all your characters, and the designers taking your weakest characters into account. They wanted to make sure that characters such as Tao and Hans (I can't think of any super squishy characters in SF CD off the top of my head because I've only ever beaten that twice, with both of those playthroughs being years apart, and SF2 didn't really suffer quite so significantly from lousy character balance as SF1) could survive at least one hit in the end game with their 20-30 HP, and almost equally as lousy defense. While that's all well and good, the problem then arises from characters like Guntz and Bleu who end up with excess of 60 points in each defensive category, making them essentially immortal for the sake of weaker characters to be viable.

I haven't yet truly beaten SF3 because I'm still waiting on the total completion of the translation, but at least SF2 had better character balance, like you said. The low-to-high character gap between end game defense stats in that game was closer to about 50-70, whereas in SF1 it's more like 20-60.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Martin III » Sun Nov 17 2013 2:59pm

The thing is, you guys are looking at the games from the perspective of series veterans. Camelot was targeting the games towards people who had never played a Tactical RPG before. And back in the early 90s, people who had never played a Tactical RPG before represented 99% of their potential audience, so it would have been foolish to balance the game any harder than they did.

Hard mode hacks are, after all, designed for us folks who have played the games so many times we can beat them in our sleep.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Doomblade66 » Thu Apr 24 2014 5:43pm

You are probably right, Martin. That said - I'm back - and Rubix is apparently back too ! I may request he take a formal Hex Lord look at SF-Cd and see if any actual form of Editor is feasible - or if the complexity of the "Cd Format" / coding, etc - makes it just too difficult to easily mod.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby tggrng123 » Sun Nov 02 2014 9:26am

I may start playing around with the data as well.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Lord Oddeye sama » Sun Nov 02 2014 3:17pm

Have fun, this game could def use some more hacking.
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Wargasm @ Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 am wrote:Vous êtes tous douches. J'aime le monde des poissons bleus.

Do you like Shining Force 1? Do you like orchestral remixes? Then this is for you: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24551#p668069
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Jinx unto ye!

Wargasm @ Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 am wrote:Vous êtes tous douches. J'aime le monde des poissons bleus.

Do you like Shining Force 1? Do you like orchestral remixes? Then this is for you: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24551#p668069
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby SydneyFuzz » Thu Dec 11 2014 12:26pm

*plays cheerleader* o3o I believe in you. Hehe~
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Doomblade66 » Mon Jul 27 2015 9:33pm

No updates on everyone's "looking into the files" for this gem - ehhhh ? Sigh...I guess we still must be saddled with relatively weak bosses, terribly strong party members (by comparison), and an (overall) lowish difficulty level, even on Super (Hard) mode !? :damnit:
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Flygon » Thu Jul 30 2015 7:04am

It'd probably be easier to just port the game over to the Shining Force II engine, then hack in Sega CD support from there.

Going by my (several years old) recollection, Shining Force CD's filesystem was a mess. It's hackable, but I wouldn't want to be the one to do it. Nevermind how difficult it would be to debug the game for hardware compatibility.
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Re: Possible to do a SF-CD Editor Program ?

Postby Jarlaxle » Sat Aug 15 2015 11:56pm

A proper Hard Mode for this game would be awesome; I recently played through the game on Super Hard for the first time (bloody wish I hadn't wasted my time on 'Normal' mode the first time >_>), and it's definitely a joke. At least for Book 2 you take decent damage and they have better HP, but the piss-poor defense values ruin it. I asked a friend who has made a few game editors about having a look at this, but it's probably going to take a big fan to get it done. The 'Shadow Battle' is bloody tough though if you leave weapons on your party and choose the hard version. >_@
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