What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 1:07am
by domingo43
At the end of FC, after the credits, when Ian, Max and Adam are alone walking, Adam asks "Where shall we go now?" and Ian responds with "..." but Max says "That's a great idea, Ian! We should go visit my brother's place. Or maybe..." What does Max mean? Kane is dead. And what does he mean with the "Or maybe..." ?

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 1:22am
by Alpha
We don't know. It's one of those unanswered questions.

As for Kane's place...who know's? Perhaps it belongs to Ian now. Speculate :)

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 1:46am
by domingo43
This forum is in need of a topic so badly, I might as well make this a discussion/analyze topic. :p

As for Kane's place...who know's? Perhaps it belongs to Ian now.

I got the feeling that when they brought up "my brother's place," that they were implying that Kane was alive and that should go over to where he is. They probably wouldn't have called it "my brother's place" if someone else owned it now.
Or maybe they meant to venture into some otherworld where Kane perhaps resided.
Or it could be that somehow he had never died. I mean, I always thought Mishaela was dead, until I heard about this game. Soo...

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 12:50pm
by Aldur
Nah, Kane is dead. I'm pretty sure they mean his grave. It's just directly translated and japanese peoples don't say things in the same way we do.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 1:32pm
by Swalchy
I thought he was actually meaning the place where Kane used to live.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 1:37pm
by Aldur
Ian's hometown then. Another possibility. Maybe Kane is buried there and all.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 1:47pm
by Swalchy
Could be.

It really is purely conjecture on everyones part concerning what Max was refering to though.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 2:49pm
by Alpha
Especially considering there is no direct follow up story from Final Conflict (CW not counting).

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13 2007 9:17pm
by Martin III
Heh. I wonder why no one has considered the possibility that Max has more than one brother? It seems the simplest explanation.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2007 12:50am
by Great Paladin
as for the "or maybe..." part, he was jus suggesting other places to go

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2007 12:55am
by domingo43
Great Paladin @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:50 pm) wrote: as for the "or maybe..." part, he was jus suggesting other places to go

It seemed like it was important than that...like it was significant, but maybe that was just me.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2007 1:03am
by Alpha
Martin III @ Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:17 pm) wrote: Heh. I wonder why no one has considered the possibility that Max has more than one brother? It seems the simplest explanation.

I disagree. We're discussing posibilites that have links to things we've already seen. You're just bringing something completely unheard of before to try and explain something.

In my opinion, if Max had another brother, they would have told us about it at some point. Not the "one never mentioned or heard about" brother.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 2007 9:37pm
by Martin III
Alpha @ Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:03 am) wrote: I disagree. We're discussing posibilites that have links to things we've already seen. You're just bringing something completely unheard of before to try and explain something.

In my opinion, if Max had another brother, they would have told us about it at some point. Not the "one never mentioned or heard about" brother.

Why would they have mentioned another brother before? All the games have shown is Max running around Rune and Paramecia in search of Darksol and Mishaela. Hardly the point to be discussing one of the many relations that you don't keep in touch with.

Adam: Quick, Max, we must stop Mishaela before she revives Darksol!
Max: Say, Adam, did I ever tell you about my brother Arthur? Funny guy; haven't seen him in years, but...

And yeah, like they mentioned Max having a brother before Kane was unmasked. :roll:

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16 2007 6:17pm
by Alpha
Eh, I still think you're taking it too far, but whatever. It doesn't really bother me if we disagree.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16 2007 12:32am
by Kaz
Perhaps Max does have another brother who is related to Bowie. But as said before, probably not. I'd rather go with the theory that Kane never died.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 2007 1:27am
by domingo43
Shining Force) wrote:(Kane dies)

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 2007 2:42am
by Demonic Weasel
That doesn't quite matter. By all appearances in SF Mishalea died too. Admittedly, they gave her an excuse to still be alive by explaining that she was in fact a Devil (although I still prefer the theory that she's a Dark Elf), but all the same that doesn't mean Kane is dead. Although it is an indication.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 2007 2:46am
by domingo43
Although they never said Mishaela dies once you defeat her. Unlike Kane and Darksol.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 2007 4:18am
by Demonic Weasel
True. But then they didn't say that Elliot died. Or that Ramaladu died. So, it's still not much to go on.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 2007 12:01am
by Martin III
Demonic Weasel @ Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:18 am) wrote: True. But then they didn't say that Elliot died. Or that Ramaladu died. So, it's still not much to go on.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but your logic here seems pretty screwed up. Let me know if I have this straight: You're saying that if the characters whom the game explicitly says are dead are definitively all dead, then the characters whom the game simply implies are dead must either be definitively all dead or definitively all alive. But since Mishaela was alive, and Elliot and Ramaladu are dead, there's no definitive judgment on whether a character who is implied to be dead is actually dead. Therefore, those characters whom the game explicitly says are dead cannot be said to be definitely dead.

Now, I don't see how the first statement follows. Why can't the characters which the game explicitly says died be considered definitively dead, while reserving judgment for the ones it doesn't speak explicitly of? That's the whole idea of the game saying explicitly "He died" - so that you know that the character is definitively dead.

I have to say that when I played through the game, I just assumed that Max had another brother. The thought that he might be referring to Kane never even crossed my mind. Trying to figure out how Max could have been saying "Let's go to Kane's place" seems an unnatural way of approaching the statement, making it a lot more difficult issue than it really is.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 2007 1:12am
by Demonic Weasel
Domingo43 cited the quote, "Kane dies" as definitive proof that he's dead by the time FC roles around. I pointed out that there were some implied deaths that turned out to not be true deaths and he tried to detract from that point. So I detracted from his detraction.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 2007 10:21pm
by Martin III
I still don't see why you can't take the explicit statement "Kane dies" as definitive proof that Kane is dead.

Another thing I've just noticed. Max was talking to Ian when he said this, so if he was referring to Kane, wouldn't it make a lot more sense for him to say "your father's place" rather than "my brother's place"? I mean, unless Max is completely narcissistic...

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 2007 10:24pm
by Demonic Weasel
I'm not sure about this, but wasn't that same quote used for Darksol? Because he definitely didn't die at the end of SF1. I'm willing to concede that it's an indication, but no more than that.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27 2007 9:35pm
by Martin III
I'm not sure about the quote with regard to Darksol either, but Darksol definitely did die at the end of Shining Force I. It's simply that, being a devil king, he can be resurrected.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29 2007 11:53pm
by Demonic Weasel
I always took that to mean that his copreal body was destroyed but that he was in no way killed. The theories come to the same point however.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30 2007 8:37am
by Alpha
There's always the thought that if any Shining Force member can be raised by the powers of light, any warrior of evil could be raised by the powers of darkness.

Just an idea (not sure if I think it valid or not right now).

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30 2007 11:12pm
by Martin III
Demonic Weasel @ Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:53 pm) wrote: I always took that to mean that his copreal body was destroyed but that he was in no way killed.

:lol: What do you think dying is, beyond having your corporeal body destroyed? Are you telling me that if I were to destroy your corporeal body right now, you could still be alive!? :fear:

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30 2007 11:14pm
by Demonic Weasel
Yes, but Darksol is a Devil King. The point being that he doesn't actually 'die' in the sense that the word is generally used.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue May 01 2007 1:14am
by Alpha
Which is sort of what I was just trying to point out.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Tue May 01 2007 2:37am
by Demonic Weasel
You were broadening the point to encompass all that serve darkness though. I was specifically speculating as to the powers of a Devil King. Worthy idea though.

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03 2015 6:28pm
by Lucifer
Since recent studies show that RotDD (extras excluded) is more canonical than we originally thought, I propose that Max could've been referring to Metapha or some similar "realm of the Ancients" when he said, "my brothers place." Although the Castle of the Ancients sank to the depths of the sea, it is never stated nor implied that the rest of the Ancients ruined civilization was destroyed along with it.

The Aforementioned Studies: http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16147

Re: What happened at the end of FC and what

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17 2017 1:54am
by Wulfunruh
Wrench. On no grounds at all... Oddeye is the third brother.