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Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Discuss the followup to Shining Tears on the Playstation 2.

Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby tman7776 » Mon Oct 03 2011 7:27pm

Is it possible to translate this after shining force 3?

I only know of the anime, and it's just a flip side to Wind's story.

I'd like to know what happens on Kariya's side.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby Cullsoft » Mon Oct 17 2011 9:11am

Spoke with Walchy (from the SF3 translation project team) about this at SO:UK, and sadly it's not likely.

In regards to the translation itself, most of this had been done already by former members such as Aspartate, Fallen Angel and Landius - who have not been active on SFC for years. A lot of the "translation" work being done now is more of a revision of odd names and sections to get the to sound more like proper English than direct translations.

On the technical side, you'd need to have people with decent knowledge of hacking PS2 games, which the team don't really have. The SF3 project only really happened because knightofdragon came along and offered up some hefty info on hacking Saturn games.

On the appreciative side, most (if not all) of the folks working on the SF3 project are doing so through big love of SF3 and how eagerly they and many others have wanted the untranslated parts of (arguably) Camelot's best game in the Shining series to be playable in English. That love for Shining Wind... isn't really felt.


My recommendation would be to find people who are interested in the game and seeing how eager they are to work on a translated script. Bear in mind that such tranlations can take a lot of time and effort, though.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby StorMyu » Mon Oct 17 2011 12:24pm

Also because PS2 is hard to manipulate. and if the game is not "made" for a translation, you have to change lots of code sometime just to get a proper size for the font (as an example of course)
some 2 kanji which translated take at least 6/7 character and goes offscreen and stuff like that.
Anyway, without any decent PS2 programmer you can't go very far.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby xan1242 » Mon Oct 17 2011 9:32pm

StorMyu wrote:Also because PS2 is hard to manipulate. and if the game is not "made" for a translation, you have to change lots of code sometime just to get a proper size for the font (as an example of course)
some 2 kanji which translated take at least 6/7 character and goes offscreen and stuff like that.
Anyway, without any decent PS2 programmer you can't go very far.


PS2 is VERY easy to manipulate if you have FreeMcBoot.It should contain some normal fonts,but most likely only capital letters are there.If the game's engine is similar to Neo and Ikusa (EXA),then this one shouldn't be too hard,as EXA was already undubbed (probably Neo too).I know the undubs are not translations,but the packing method should be similar and access to game's data should be open.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby StorMyu » Mon Oct 17 2011 10:25pm

xan1242 wrote:PS2 is VERY easy to manipulate if you have FreeMcBoot.It should contain some normal fonts,but most likely only capital letters are there.If the game's engine is similar to Neo and Ikusa (EXA),then this one shouldn't be too hard,as EXA was already undubbed (probably Neo too).I know the undubs are not translations,but the packing method should be similar and access to game's data should be open.

orly?
Just to show you an example of how you're terribly wrong:
Mana Khemia 2 PSP (only came out in Japan even if the PS2 version came out in USA)
someone attempt to translate it since the games are "similar"
Image
Image
Do you really think it's the same text function ?

Thing is: It's not because a US games got localised that a similar game will be that easy to do.
They don't just translate they also changes part of the code to make it playable or readable to us (like that font problem)

and I'm not talking about PS2 being easy to manipulate just because you can read ISO, I'm talking about having access to a decent debugger to be able to track down part of code to change them accordingly to your desire.
Also, Undubbing is only about replacing Audio sample into the US games, which does not involve any further change, and that's really easy compared to a translation.

tl;dr : it's not that simple , nuff said.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby xan1242 » Tue Oct 18 2011 10:47pm

orlyorly?...

Need debugging?Get an emulator,per se.Want a real unit?Get a debug PS2 or even a normal PS2 with a network adapter could output debugging console.

I said that if we have the access to game's data,we can change text and fonts!Recoding is unnecessary.What they do is that they just change the fonts and text data.If they are already there,even better!

Indeed just going in the disc image doesn't make you easier to manipulate,that is why someone probably already found out the archiving methods to get full access to game's data.And you said that the PS2 was hard to manipulate,which is just wrong.The game is hard to manipulate.You have to be more specific.

And for the record;No.You do not need a debug PS2 to access the game's code.You can do that from the computer,and you have to do it from there.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby StorMyu » Wed Oct 19 2011 3:26pm

Current emulator does not support correct debugging. but for the Network adaptater.. ok never tried.
changing text and fonts are not enough (sometimes, because as you said, yes A GAME can be hard to hack not every game).
you can be stuck on stupid things like text overlapping because of Kanji's name translated being too long, or any stupid reason. That's why I'm talking about, the need of a debugger is somewhat necessary when problems comes, especially if you introduce a bug and you don't know how to find it.

and for the record (too), of course I don't need a debug PS2 to access the game's code, I'm just locating the function/routine needed via debugger and then works on my laptop.

Anyway if you want to try hacking Shining Wind then why not, even if I can give help I would.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby xan1242 » Thu Oct 20 2011 12:42pm

I'd love to try it myself,but if I had time to do it...

I'll see what I can do,even a little bit.

If I start a translation project,then I would need to find a way how to get into the game's data,then somebody to design the fonts,somebody who understands Japanese and Kanji and can actually translate it for me,and ton of other stuff.

EDIT:OK!I started downloading the game.It is almost impossible for me to buy the game.I am NOT trying to give a game.I know I am pirating a game,but please note that I am not telling where I downloaded it in public.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby tman7776 » Sat Oct 22 2011 12:39am

I know there are anime cutscenes in the game,

how are those translated? Is there even a subtitle option for Shining Wind?
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby StorMyu » Sat Oct 22 2011 1:47pm

tman7776 wrote:I know there are anime cutscenes in the game,

how are those translated? Is there even a subtitle option for Shining Wind?

I've just looked some youtube video, and there's no subtitle, but can be added directly to the video like any anime/movie... the codec are just different x)
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby xan1242 » Mon Oct 24 2011 4:34pm

I just want to note that me and StorMyu are working on hacking the game.

Do not expect us to translate it or fully hack it!We have just gotten into the game's data.Modifying it can be (and it is) a hard job.

We're still finding out how to change fonts and text (although text can be changed through hex hacking)!

It is NOT an translation project (yet)!
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby Cullsoft » Mon Oct 24 2011 5:29pm

StorMyu wrote:
tman7776 wrote:how are those translated? Is there even a subtitle option for Shining Wind?

I've just looked some youtube video, and there's no subtitle, but can be added directly to the video like any anime/movie... the codec are just different x)


Yeah... chances are this will be an area of difficulty if the game, unless by some fluke the videos happen to be encoded in a format that's easy to decode/encode accurately.

I gather it's pretty standard for games to use video files to use some very obscure codec and file format that need specific tools for you to work with them properly. I suspect that tools that are capable of this can be stumbled upon online, but the other part of the question is how good a job they do; I recall finding a tool that could decode the videos from Saturn games, but when using it on Shining Force 3 it gave a fair number of visual glitches.

I wouldn't be surprised if similar glitches were to occur if you were to try to decode PS2 videos - and chances are that any decoding errors encountered would be made worse after any editting has been done and the file's been re-encoded.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby xan1242 » Mon Oct 24 2011 6:08pm

Shining Wind uses SFD SoftDec video format,which is almost identical to the MPEG format and it was intended originally for the Dreamcast.

PS2 has a hardware MPEG2 decoder,and it can play almost all of the formats,and those formats can be played on a PC without any problems whatsoever.I do have the decoder (sfd2mpg) and encoder,but it seems that the decoder doesn't decode video properly (blank screen).

Most of the games from PS1 and later use the MPEG 1 or 2 format (until Bink showed up).They're just "packed" in some kind of obscure way indeed.

And I also should mention that almost anything today can play the MPEG format.The DTV module for digital television,for example,streams the MPEG2 or even HD MPEG4 from the satellites through the TV signal.

To put subtitles,you can just use VirtualDub and hard encode them into the MPEG videos,and then use a encoder to make a SoftDec video and it should be alright.I think,at least,that the people who undubbed the EXA did that as well,and probably other SEGA games (for PS2 and XBOX and GC and later) that were undubbed/translated,because I noticed the exact same format in Shadow the Hedgehog game and in various other SEGA games as well.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby Cullsoft » Tue Oct 25 2011 4:51pm

Fair enough - if it works, it definitely deserves a thumbs up.

The thing that I feel is best kept in mind is that whilst the PS2 may be happy with some of the more everyday MPEG formats, that doesn't necessarily mean the game you're working with is, so trying to import videos in a different format to what they were before sounds like a recipe for trouble. However, it sounds like you've got the right tools for re-encoding the files into the right format, so hopefully this should reduce (if not eliminate) any major problems. :)

Sorry if I sound like I'm being a pessimist here (speaking bluntly, that's what I am) - I'm not trying to dissuade you guys from this project, but just making sure you've got a potential problem covered before stumbling in too hastily. It's kind of my thing whenever I'm involved with starting projects (and probably why I tend to be kept out of them - for better or worse).
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby StorMyu » Tue Oct 25 2011 11:54pm

ps2 is my cup of tea
see the "Tales Of" topic
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby xan1242 » Wed Oct 26 2011 6:43pm

Wait, what do you mean by PS2 being your cup of tea?

I don't get it... :damnit:
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby Omega Entity » Wed Oct 26 2011 7:49pm

It's a figure of speech. It's 'up his alley' - something he's good at.
(8:23:45 PM) ehow1990: stupid question: why do you have hay there?
(8:23:54 PM) YsFanatic18: She was feedigng horses
(8:23:58 PM) MXC0Spike: Barn sex
(8:24:07 PM) ahath714: She stuffs.
(8:24:39 PM) ehow1990: ask a stupid question and everybody has an answer XD
(8:23:45 PM) ehow1990: stupid question: why do you have hay there?
(8:23:54 PM) YsFanatic18: She was feedigng horses
(8:23:58 PM) MXC0Spike: Barn sex
(8:24:07 PM) ahath714: She stuffs.
(8:24:39 PM) ehow1990: ask a stupid question and everybody has an answer XD
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby StorMyu » Wed Oct 26 2011 11:23pm

Omega Entity wrote:It's a figure of speech. It's 'up his alley' - something he's good at.

what he said.
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby Omega Entity » Thu Oct 27 2011 2:40am

She, actually.
(8:23:45 PM) ehow1990: stupid question: why do you have hay there?
(8:23:54 PM) YsFanatic18: She was feedigng horses
(8:23:58 PM) MXC0Spike: Barn sex
(8:24:07 PM) ahath714: She stuffs.
(8:24:39 PM) ehow1990: ask a stupid question and everybody has an answer XD
(8:23:45 PM) ehow1990: stupid question: why do you have hay there?
(8:23:54 PM) YsFanatic18: She was feedigng horses
(8:23:58 PM) MXC0Spike: Barn sex
(8:24:07 PM) ahath714: She stuffs.
(8:24:39 PM) ehow1990: ask a stupid question and everybody has an answer XD
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Re: Fan Translation of this after 3 possible?

Postby StorMyu » Thu Oct 27 2011 11:04am

Damn, first Moogie now you... English is really bad to guess the sex of a person...
Sorry anyway ^^
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