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Let me get your opinion on something.

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Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Arisilde » Tue Jul 12 2016 1:28am

So much like many people around here, I have been tinkering with the idea of working on my own Shining Force fan project. SF2 is one of my all time favorite games. I never understood why more strategy games couldn't figure out the merit of actually letting you wander around and interact with the world between fights. Even with SF's fairly shallow story, this ability always made me feel more engaged with the world. I actually could not get into any of the other SF games other than 1 and 2 due to their lack of this. Just jumping straight from battle to battle is not nearly as engaging, no matter how good the battles are...

So my question is, what in your mind is it that makes these games seem "Shining Force"? Would it still seem like it fit if the themes were a bit more adult? Like how SF 1 seems more "dark" than SF2 does. The characters are mostly older, the enemies a bit meaner looking. The story has less "silly" and slapstick elements that 2's does. What if I took that a little farther? Could an even grimmer game still maintain the "SF feel"?

On the same note. The SF games all have fairly simple game mechanics. Very bare bones stats. Could these systems be a little more robust without losing it?

These are things I've been mulling over for some time, and to me, I feel like it IS possible. I just wanted to know what other die hard SF fans think.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Chaoswizard98 » Tue Jul 12 2016 4:33am

Hey man, welcome to the forums and the fanwork section!

As you mentioned in your post, the ability to explore and wander around towns or previous battle areas definitely makes the game more fun. Besides, who doesn't like searching for secrets? lol.

As far as mechanics go, you can make the game more robust. As long as the gameplay is relatively the same, you should be fine. I actually created a "suggestions" thread for new features a while back. There's some good ideas there that fit well with the traditional SF style so you might want to check that out.

I personally think you can get away with a more mature and darker story and maintain the SF feel. As long as the story is good, I don't think people will mind all that much.

I wish you luck on your project and hope this helps!
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Arisilde » Tue Jul 12 2016 5:36am

Thanks man. I've been lurking off and on for years, just finally felt like posting :P I've been watching Syro for a while. Can't wait to see how it comes out. I'm learning Unity myself, never really tried game maker before, but it seems nice. That Nazca Ship project is very impressive and it's made with it too, so I guess it must be.

I have a couple projects in mind, one sort of building on the next as I learn Unity and game design as a whole. I've always been more of a writer than a programmer, so it'll be a long road, haha. Unity has a lot of nice assets that I can use to get hall the heavy work done right off the bat though, so that's really nice.

The main hurdle I am facing is art assets. I need to find someone who loves SF as much as I do who I can pay to make assets, haha. For now I'm just working with tiles/sprites I ripped from the ROM and have been editing off and on for a couple years. I actually have a pretty extensive expanded tileset at this point. Lots of tile variations that the original game lacked. In the end I need to have unique assets though.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Corsair » Thu Jul 14 2016 12:21am

All of the visual assets for loV are Creative Commons. have at it.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Arisilde » Thu Jul 14 2016 12:58am

I've seen your work, and It's really damn good :) Where would I get these assets? I'd love to see the whole pack.

While I really appreciate the offer, I'm hoping to make a marketable finished product eventually (though we all know how these things go, who knows how that will turn out), so I'll end up needing to have unique assets made eventually anyway. I fully intend to pay whoever I find, so hopefully that'll help attract someone. Even if I never finish the game, I'd still like to commission some work, just because I think it'll be really neat ;D I have 2 particular styles I'd like to explore eventually, for 2 different projects. The first one will be more simple, as a learning experience. It's graphic style I am really excited about, as it's pretty different than any shining game, but I feel will still really fit the theme. The second (if I ever get that far, will likely want a team at that point) is a much broader game. Still very much in the SF2 theme, but the scope of features is a bit deeper.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Corsair » Fri Jul 15 2016 3:56am

...I really need to compile all that at some point. For the time being, it's all accessible via my dropbox, which you should see in my sig.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby RainyDaySunshine » Fri Jul 15 2016 7:55am

For me a shining force game is, as you all said earlier, being able to run around the world.

But also the number of characters you can have on the battle field, the big battle animations that gives characters personalities by how they attack and how they look (which is probably why i never got into ff tactics and disgaea).

I also like being able to promote my characters, which makes it fun to level all the characters in your party, just to see how they turn out.

Its a simple game, with a few twists, like special promotion items and mithril.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Arisilde » Fri Jul 15 2016 4:43pm

Corsair wrote:...I really need to compile all that at some point. For the time being, it's all accessible via my dropbox, which you should see in my sig.

I actually don't see a sig for you. I see them on some other people though.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Chaoswizard98 » Sat Jul 16 2016 3:43am

Arisilde wrote:I actually don't see a sig for you. I see them on some other people though.

His signature isn't displayed in posts. You need to click on his name.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Arisilde » Sat Jul 16 2016 4:35pm

Chaoswizard98 wrote:
Arisilde wrote:I actually don't see a sig for you. I see them on some other people though.

His signature isn't displayed in posts. You need to click on his name.

Oh I see, thanks. Kind of a weird system hah.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Assassins » Sat Jul 16 2016 5:32pm

The real part of Shining Force for me is the force. A ragtag collection of different races, who only need to desire to be on the force to get on the force. Unity of purpose. Going in depth on their stories and having them be important for more than a couple scenes would be nice though.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Martin III » Mon Jul 18 2016 2:55pm

They've actually already had four official Shining Force games targeted towards adults: Shining Force Feather and the three Shining Force III installments. Refer to those.

As for the simple gameplay mechanics, that's really the main thing that differentiates Shining Force from other Tactical RPGs. (Open world exploration only appears in one Shining Force game, SF2, and isn't unique to the Shining series anyway. For just one example, Mystaria/Blazing Heroes is another tactical RPG with an open world.) Indeed, coincidentally enough that very matter was just brought up on the SegaSaturnUK forums; see the first post on this page.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Nash Vegas » Mon Aug 15 2016 8:35pm

I don't know what program you are thinking of using but there have been some assets made not just by the Community Project but also sprites made for RPG Maker like projects. I think the creator of those gave his blessing for others to use it.

As far as adult versions of SF I would be up for it. Strangely enough last night as I was watching Game of Thrones season 5 I was thinking of what a SF story with GOT elements would be like. No I don't mean all the nudity but rather the scheming of multiple parties for the throne and not just having one bad guy but having multiple ones and even ones that appear to be friends for a long time. Things were pretty much cut and dry in SF worlds.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Stordarth » Mon Aug 15 2016 11:27pm

Nash Vegas wrote:As far as adult versions of SF I would be up for it. Strangely enough last night as I was watching Game of Thrones season 5 I was thinking of what a SF story with GOT elements would be like. No I don't mean all the nudity but rather the scheming of multiple parties for the throne and not just having one bad guy but having multiple ones and even ones that appear to be friends for a long time. Things were pretty much cut and dry in SF worlds.


That is basically SF3, like Martin said. So many factions in SF3. It's almost like Game of Thrones: The Anime.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Nash Vegas » Tue Aug 16 2016 4:15pm

I would agree that SF3 was geared more towards an older audience. I would be interested to see how it would play out to lose more of your own force throughout a story. People sacrificing themselves for the Forces cause or some even flat out killed due to traitors or back stabbers. Although it would suck to grind and level up a guy to have him murdered in the story. Maybe I don't like that idea anymore. Maybe a better position would be more choices in a story. You can only save 1 of 2 people so who do you save and who do you sacrifice for the good of the Force.....
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby chris1234p » Thu Aug 25 2016 2:07pm

I have a strong nostalgic connection to the Shining Force series, as they were some of the first RPGs I played and I played them when I came out - I was about 9-10 years old at the time. I prefer the "dark" aesthetics of SF1, but still enjoy playing SF2.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Caedmonball19 » Thu Aug 25 2016 4:39pm

I agree. I was more of a fan of SF1 but replaying the original all these years later really does show you the financial, time and system limitations at that time. Still my favorite game of all time though.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Rya.Reisender » Fri Oct 28 2016 9:57am

The walking around part is one of the strong points of Shining Force. That's not because "walking around" in itself adds alot to the quality, but rather because it is so incredibly well implemented in Shining Force. There are tons of secrets to be found and lots of funny and even unexpected scenes. You need to be a good game designer to really be able to copy that and capture its spirit.

That being said, just battle after battle is great for me too. My father and me both love the Battle Royale SF2 mod for example.

What really makes Shining Force special to me apart from the exploration part:
1. Large 12 vs 12+ combat.
2. All characters have a personality and background (not just player-created "fighter", "healer", "mage", "thief" as in many other SRPGs)
3. Very easy to control (the fact that characters get automatically selected and how easy and fast paced the menu controls are)
4. Very easy to understand (even my 70-year-old father can play it)
5. No permadeath
6. Ability to grind exp and gold
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby Tor_Heyerdal » Sun Oct 30 2016 10:17pm

Martin III wrote:... Open world exploration only appears in one Shining Force game, SF2...


SF2 was the only one with true "open world" exploration. But because of the following...

Arisilde wrote:Even with SF's fairly shallow story, this ability always made me feel more engaged with the world. I actually could not get into any of the other SF games other than 1 and 2 due to their lack of this.


I figure that Arisilde is counting the "closed world" exploration of SF1. That being the case, I feel like it's important to note that the three installments of SF3 all have that same, SF1-styled closed world exploration.

And just to be clear: by "closed world", I mean the potential for exploration which is otherwise open, but limited to the confines of individual chapters.

Nash Vegas wrote:I don't know what program you are thinking of using but there have been some assets made not just by the Community Project but also sprites made for RPG Maker like projects. I think the creator of those gave his blessing for others to use it.


My Shining-themed raw materials which I've created for RPG Maker 2003 for my own project are free to be used by anyone who wants to use them, but I would ask that one give credit if used. Though I'm not about to go and throw a fit if credit's not given, either. ::shrug::

More direct to the point of the thread, though, I would be interested in playing a darker themed SF, and I definitely think it's possible to maintain the "SF feel" in doing so--even getting much darker than SF3. In fact, I have a distinct memory of a scene from a very dark 3D sequel to SF2 which doesn't actually exist and never did, which I'm convinced must have been something I dreamed, and I've always wanted to play it. lol. So I say power to ya.
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Re: Let me get your opinion on something.

Postby RedShine » Tue Nov 01 2016 7:57pm

I thought I'd chip in, given that Shining Force was the second RPG I ever played, and it even drove me towards the need of learning English so I could actually understand what was going on.

Personally, while I liked the free roaming parts as a kid, as an adult I came to appreciate the more straightforward back to back battling from the Gaidens. Being a completionist, I hate missing out stuff when I play games, especially when said stuff means characters.

The essence of Shining Force is the Force itself - trying to balance out your own play style with what you're given is a big part of it, but as it has been said, the game is essentially simple; that's not necessarily a bad thing, since when complexity detracts from the fun factor, you have a game no longer, but an exercise of interactive tedium.

Shining Force 3 is the high point in the series, in my opinion. Despite taking many radical departures in regards to scope and both graphical and storytelling style, it was a necessary and welcome evolution, in my opinion (keep in mind that, when I say Shining Force 3, I'm referring to the whole of the story, not just the official NA release).

Some may argue that Shining Force 3 was trying to imitate Fire Emblem by adding a convoluted political landscape to the mix, but I feel it was done in a very SFish flavor, and it is its own thing.

Also, speaking about mechanics, the magic resistances being formalized and quantified was a very welcome change. Magic has always been incredibly mighty in SF, and trying to balance it out somewhat was a step in the right direction (Feda: The Emblem of Justice, Shining Force's estranged SNES brother had El and Sonia, casters that could use barriers to soften spells, that is also a valid solution).

Anyway, sorry for the long write up; I realize not everything may directly pertain the OP's intended query, but perhaps it could be of use.
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