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New Life to the site?

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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby DiegoMM » Tue Oct 28 2014 2:14pm

FEDA is more shining force than Shining Wisdom :P
FEDA expand the srpg gameplay in very good ways, i.e. you dont need to switch between equips to use them, you can have a knight with a lance and a spear and attack with any weapon without needing to go to equip menu.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Antman 537 » Tue Oct 28 2014 6:32pm

I think DiegoMM's first post was spot on. If we're looking for new life on the forums, we can't be so verbally abusive of the new games. Doesn't mean you have to like them, or even pretend to like them, but I do think it'd be a lot more productive to focus on the positive aspects of all the games and encourage new members to check out the rest of the series, rather than turn them off by telling them the games they like suck.

As for non-sf games, isn't there a topic way down there for that already?
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Omega Entity » Tue Oct 28 2014 6:41pm

Two subforums for those, yes - Other RPGs and Other Games (for non-RPGs).
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Geoffrey Duke » Tue Oct 28 2014 8:44pm

Sinful Force wrote:This is the one thing I disagree with. Shining Force 1-3 by Camelot is the most casual friendly SRPG by far from what I've played. It's basically simple yet deep. The perfect game formula. All other SRPG bog things down with way too many stats, number, spells, etc (thus makes it even way harder to properly balance difficulty wise) and a very shitty pacing/flow as the main Shining Force director put it in an interview once while talking about the FE series.


SF1-2-3 still aren't casual enough for casual "gamers". They don't even want platform hopping and simple puzzles in an action/RPG. People don't have the patience for them. Generally speaking.

Resident Evil was extremely popular and successful, yet it "evolved" into an action series.

I hate it, but it is what it is. Like I said, it's best to find something else to support. Wasteland 2 isn't bad tbh.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Sinful Force » Wed Oct 29 2014 12:44pm

Antman 537 wrote:I think DiegoMM's first post was spot on. If we're looking for new life on the forums, we can't be so verbally abusive of the new games. Doesn't mean you have to like them, or even pretend to like them, but I do think it'd be a lot more productive to focus on the positive aspects of all the games and encourage new members to check out the rest of the series, rather than turn them off by telling them the games they like suck.

As for non-sf games, isn't there a topic way down there for that already?


Yeah, sure. But let me ask you this. Out of all the fans that very heavily obsess over the Camelot Shining games, do you think it even possible for any of them to do the same for any of the non-Camelot Shining games?


And all I'm suggesting with the Camelot thing is that maybe there should be another topic just called "Camelot's other games" or something bellow the Other RPGs/Other games/etc. sections. With some cool sub title saying "For those that crave more Camelot goodness" or something but actually cool written. It's really that simple of a request and suggestion. Nothing more, nothing less. You can still keep those other crap non-Shiny/non-Camelot Shining games for all I care, cause I will continue to ignore them for the waste of space they are just like everybody else on here.

Then you have other guys that are always asking for more games like Shiny Shining games. Well, that right there should clue everybody in of how important a topic like that is, because Camelot is what Shiny Shining games are. And you won't get closer then seeing the spirit of that then in other Camelot games. Sad or not, it's true.


And then there's more I just realized. Out of all the times this site, well Moogie this site, communicated with Camelot, I wonder what Camelot might of thought all the times they've checked this site and with no mention of any of their other games or place to talk of them after their break with Sega? But either way, there's no doubt it would show more respect to them if there was such a section. After all, these are the guys we should be showing respect, not blasted Sega and all the fans they upset on a daily basis. Has everybody forgot the recent BS they've shown Shining fans on YouTube?
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Century » Wed Oct 29 2014 1:07pm

Sinful Force wrote:And then there's more I just realized. Out of all the times this site, well Moogie this site, communicated with Camelot, I wonder what Camelot might of thought all the times they've checked this site and with no mention of any of their other games or place to talk of them after their break with Sega? But either way, there's no doubt it would show more respect to them if there was such a section. After all, these are the guys we should be showing respect, not blasted Sega and all the fans they upset on a daily basis. Has everybody forgot the recent BS they've shown Shining fans on YouTube?


This is a Shining fan-site, not a Camelot fan-site.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Lord Oddeye sama » Wed Oct 29 2014 2:12pm

Century wrote:
Sinful Force wrote:And then there's more I just realized. Out of all the times this site, well Moogie this site, communicated with Camelot, I wonder what Camelot might of thought all the times they've checked this site and with no mention of any of their other games or place to talk of them after their break with Sega? But either way, there's no doubt it would show more respect to them if there was such a section. After all, these are the guys we should be showing respect, not blasted Sega and all the fans they upset on a daily basis. Has everybody forgot the recent BS they've shown Shining fans on YouTube?


This is a Shining fan-site, not a Camelot fan-site.

Heck, even a thread discussing all the other Camelot games would only live for so long considering their level of activity. And their recent release log only being about sport games. Better discuss games individually in the relevant sections.

SF, I know you're a hardcore fan of that company but there's no point being so vocal about this like you're spreading the gospel of Camelot to the misguided masses. Those other games might be nothing to rave about but they've got their own following and I've seen worse games over the years. Just live and let live. Trash talking about all things non-Camelot isn't going to achieve anything constructive. If you still want to go on a personal crusade, keep speaking with your wallet and stick to what you consider quality games from worthy companies.
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Wargasm @ Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 am wrote:Vous êtes tous douches. J'aime le monde des poissons bleus.

Do you like Shining Force 1? Do you like orchestral remixes? Then this is for you: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24551#p668069
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Wargasm @ Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 am wrote:Vous êtes tous douches. J'aime le monde des poissons bleus.

Do you like Shining Force 1? Do you like orchestral remixes? Then this is for you: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24551#p668069
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Sinful Force » Thu Oct 30 2014 12:47am

Lord Oddeye sama wrote:Heck, even a thread discussing all the other Camelot games would only live for so long considering their level of activity. And their recent release log only being about sport games. Better discuss games individually in the relevant sections.


There haven been no more new releases for the real Shining Force games hasn't stopped the chit chat for them yet. And adding a section to other classic Camelot games would greatly increase chit chat and awareness to them. All adding to the best for everyone & everything. It's really this simple. And I don't think I can simplify it more then that.

And again, it's not up to me. This is just my though on it. And clearly I'm not winning anyone over. So really no point in continuing. Especially when I finally figured out how to explain things so perfectly and with so few words.


EDIT - @ Century; gee, the impression I'm getting is that this is a Shining and Camelot fansite...
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Lord Oddeye sama » Thu Oct 30 2014 6:49am

Yeah, I get it, but whoever visits here usually does so for Shining Force, not for Camelot. There's a reason why it's called Shining Force Central. I seriously doubt the lack of a specific Camelot section is preventing anyone from posting about those games in Other RPGs.
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Jinx unto ye!

Wargasm @ Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 am wrote:Vous êtes tous douches. J'aime le monde des poissons bleus.

Do you like Shining Force 1? Do you like orchestral remixes? Then this is for you: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24551#p668069
I despise berzerk attitude.
¿ ? The OddBlood ¿ ?
/ Because Life is Odd. \
Secretary of Odds and Ends, Rainblood Secessionists
Jinx unto ye!

Wargasm @ Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 am wrote:Vous êtes tous douches. J'aime le monde des poissons bleus.

Do you like Shining Force 1? Do you like orchestral remixes? Then this is for you: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24551#p668069
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Cullsoft » Thu Oct 30 2014 7:46am

Sinful Force wrote:EDIT - @ Century; gee, the impression I'm getting is that this is a Shining and Camelot fansite...


In some ways, it is - as in "Shining AND Camelot" rather than "Shining AND/OR Camelot". A fair number of SFCers feel their allegiance is towards "Shining games made by Camelot" - rather than towards "all Shining games and all games made by Camelot".
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Antman 537 » Thu Oct 30 2014 4:10pm

I agree with sinful, at this point the opinions have been expressed and it's really in the hands of those who run the site. Are there any other things you guys think we as members can do to increase site life? How about a fanart contest?
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Geoffrey Duke » Thu Oct 30 2014 7:18pm

What Sega could do is make a really awesome new Shining game, then we could support it.

It's a novel concept I know. At least we can finally play Valkyria Chronicles without owning a PS3. I really don't want to own several consoles to play all of Sega's best games. However, it might be worth keeping an eye on Shining Resonance.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Ansa » Thu Oct 30 2014 7:46pm

I never minded the Shining series changed developers, that happens with almost every company. What I didn't care for is how the overall quality of the games we got following tended to be meh at best or god awful (Shining Tears used 2D sprites and it was coded so poorly it CONSTANTLY has framerate issues on the PS2, its pathetic!) Many of us celebrate the Camelot Shining games because they were all just damn good games, and as I said to chev before if the newer games are great, that's awesome but Sega as a company has decided largely to give up on western audiences between this series, PSO2, and Yakuza (I'm flat out shocked were getting VC on PC WHICH EVERYONE SHOULD BUY!) and likely you wouldn't see so many of us hating on them if we actually had some way to play them (outside of importing).

What bothers me most about Sega currently is that they have completely ignored the western market (maybe they are learning with VC on PC? Maybe its a test? Not getting my hopes up either way) including some large successes that have happened. Nintendo brought Fire Emblem Awakening out on 3DS after more then a year of people begging for it and it did well above their expectations (200k+ units stateside in the first month I believe) and it did well because it was a really well made game on a platform that had fans begging for something like it. Namco stopped bringing Tales games for a long time to the west (outside of Vesperia for 360 due to a deal with Microsoft) but we've now gotten every PS3 one released (outside of the Vesperia remake :( ) and all of them have sold well enough that they went ahead and announced next years game will be out stateside very shortly after the Japanese one (used to have a wait a year or more now its like 3 months) all of which most of thought was impossible 5 years ago. Hell we are getting Tales of Hearts on the freaking Vita in a few weeks, and the Vita is doing f*cking awful (with no help from S*ny what so ever) speaking of the Vita, Sword Art Online was released as digital download in English (with a terrible translation) but they've already hinted that it sold well enough that the next SAO game being released next year will be coming stateside with a better translation.

My point is that clearly the market is there for both JRPG's on consoles, and SRPGs on consoles and Handhelds and they will sell well if they are good games and you market them properly. Hell many of us don't even care if a game is fully localized, something like SAO I didn't care if they had dubbed voices or not, the Japanese voices work fine it that's the only way you can get the game released in the states. However, Sega ignores that these have happened (or just doesn't care) and refuses to bring over most of the games that likely could be good sellers here (I'd have bought Shining Force Feather) and in the end that's what breeds discourse within our and other communities, the games you have given us lately have been shit (Sonic Boom =_='') and we want better games and if you've got one at least make a proper attempt every now and then, don't just give up and say f*ck the rest of the world, were perfectly fine making these PSP RPG's and the limited sales potential of Japan alone (which is pretty much what they have done).

I just want good games to play, as much as I would want a proper Shining Force 4 (or a SF3 remake with at least PS2 level graphics) even if they announced it at this point the chances of us actually getting it are next to 0% anyway and frankly I don't see a need to grow this site or the forum while we aren't at least getting some of these games outside of Japan. That changes then sure, promote the new games, talk them up as positively as possible but as long as Sega is dicking us around and ignoring the western market for everything except for Sonic I see little point in making new boards for newer games.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Thief » Wed Nov 05 2014 2:27pm

I would love to play Shining Blade in English, but obviously they don't care for their overseas market anymore. That Valkyria-like gameplay, sigh.

It's interesting that they are jumping on the fighting genre bandwagon as well with Blade Arcus from Shining? lol
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Antman 537 » Thu Nov 06 2014 9:03pm

I seem to recall that Blade Arcus did not, but I'd love to see Max or Bowie show up in a fighting game, lol.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby NekomeKozo » Sat Nov 29 2014 3:04am

Generally speaking, I don't think the problem is necessarily with this site. Over the past decade, there seems to be a trend away from fansites, and towards social media websites and groups for games discussion. Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, Youtube and their like minded vermin.

I say these because even fan sites that SHOULD be booming with activity, for things like Destiny and Nintendo and such, and even hobbyist endeavors like retrocomputing, just seem to mostly attract and retain a small crowd of (gasp) old folks. Nothing like the waves of humanity I remember of 2004, for better and for worse.

I don't think it's a problem for SFC, unless they're chasing funding or dollars. I'm totally okay with this site covering pre-Shining Revival Project Shining and related efforts, and giving a passing glance to the Moe Moe Desu, Uguu Shining.

Selfishly, I'd like to cover some projects headed up by ex-Shining staff, because FEDA is totally more Shining Force than anything Shining we've seen for the past decade and a half (UGGGGH). But I respect the moderation and the staff here, it's their house and they do a good job keeping it magnificent.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Metafarion » Sun Jan 18 2015 8:24pm

I hope this isn't too much of a thread resurrection, but I only just found it and I have huge capital T Thoughts on the subject.

It seems like there's a fundamental disagreement on what exactly the purpose of this site is. We have folks who see no problem with the "life" that the site currently has, which to my (by post count only!) somewhat newbie eye is sort of akin to a monastery. The forums are populated by monks and scholars, studying the ancient texts, discussing and finding new meaning in them, writing, analyzing, charting, expanding, theorizing, etc. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE that (seriously, ask me about my thoughts on the SF3 soundtrack if you have a week or two to spare...). I don't think I would have found the site and continued coming back year after year if that element wasn't present. But it also has the tendency to create a somewhat esoteric, and insular community if that's ALL that goes on; not conducive to attracting fresh blood.

Then there's the opposing opinion that the site needs "new life" and this means getting off our porches, casting aside our bitterness about newer games, expanding the roster of covered titles, appealing to the younger crowd, reviewing, previewing, interviewing.... I think I saw someone mention crowdfunding to buy the rights to the series... Because without some new and exciting stuff, how will we bring in new members?

I believe the site has room for both of these things.

This is not a perfect comparison, but consider for a moment, a site like ocremix.org which does not struggle to stay fresh and interesting in spite of its aging source material. They have a thriving community almost ENTIRELY focused on ancient history; no news is being generated on these titles and the current generation of gamers sees them as quaint and old-fashioned. Yes, they cover new games as well, but take a look at the breakdown of content here. Of the 50 most-remixed games, 45 of them are pre-2000, and before you say "that's because they've been around longer doofus," please direct your attention to the 30 most recent remixes of which 2/3 are from the same time period.

I'm not saying we need to emulate them, but they're a good example of a community which makes its own news. SFC does this as well, but you wouldn't know it just arriving on the front page. The community projects are hidden away back in the forums, the and you really have to dig to find the NEW stuff that is happening around here. From the home page alone, the site appears to be nothing more than a vault, perhaps even a mausoleum honoring those long since passed. Of the four front page Features (stretched over 2.5 years, I might add) three of them were the annual beg.

This is not for lack of news! It's for lack of considering the stuff that originates right here in this community to be newsworthy! We don't have to wait for Sega or Camelot or whoever to hand down the next big thing (which probably sucks) so that we can meticulously categorize and archive it. One only needs to peruse the Shining Fanwork forum to see dozens of SFC productions eager to be featured: Games, music, artwork, writing, comics, etc. This is where the "new life" comes from. Without sacrificing our devotion to the "old testament".

I REALLY hope this doesn't come across as an excuse to promote Harmonia Tactics; it's not. At all. I'm invested in the discussion because this is a dichotomy I've had to wrestle with for a long time as an enthusiast (dare I say connoisseur?) of older games, and how to impart the timelessness we know they have. Shining Force is definitely one of the most under-appreciated series' I know of, and it still has a lot to offer us. And we have a lot to offer it.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Antman 537 » Sat Jan 31 2015 8:49pm

Seems reasonable to me; here here! :thumbsup:
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Geoffrey Duke » Tue Mar 10 2015 9:40pm

Shining Force is dead and buried. People should find something else to support.

I was actually thinking about playing Riglord Saga 2 for the Saturn. A translation patch for that game would be great.
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Re: New Life to the site?

Postby Kalkano » Thu Mar 12 2015 4:00am

Geoffrey Duke wrote:Shining Force is dead and buried. People should find something else to support.

I was actually thinking about playing Riglord Saga 2 for the Saturn. A translation patch for that game would be great.


I agree. But, unfortunately, I don't really see anything at all that I want to support, in modern gaming. It's almost all gone to crap.
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